Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

[theV8man]

Mega Abomasnow has the niche of being a powerful Trick Room sweeper. It's a small niche, but a niche nonetheless.

Avid Trick Room user here,
Mega Abomasnow really doesn't impress me at all. First of all full TR teams rarely have hazard support because none of the Pokemon on the team are weak to SR. Mega-Abomasnow's SR weakness is thus aggravated on these teams. Next, in Trick Room, you either have those bulky slow Pokemon that switch in to attacks after you set up (Conkeldurr), or you have those frailer ones where you usually need a free switch but it's OK because they hit so damn hard (Crawdaunt). Sometimes you even have a combination of both (Mawile)! Mega-Abomasnow can't really switch in to anything, and unboosted 135 attack, even if it's mixed, is frankly pathetic for a TR sweeper. You're not breaking past any competent mixed walls and a lot of steel types with its power/coverage. And it takes up your mega slot. Does this thing have any redeeming factors? Well, it's pretty bulky but its typing neutralizes this... at least it has priority...

Mega Abomasnow => Unranked

That's right, I'm trying to kick a Mega off the tier list. You know why? Because this thing is only on the viability ranking because of its TR niche, yet I'd rather use unranked shit like Rampardos or even Pangoro as a TR sweeper over this.

 

[Gloating]

I agree that Mega Abomasnow is shit on Trick Room but is that really the reason it was ranked? I thought it was because it has nice resistances, bulk and Ice Shard and is anti meta with all Sand Offense teams.

 

[Rosen]

I agree that Mega Abomasnow is shit on Trick Room but is that really the reason it was ranked? I thought it was because it has nice resistances, bulk and Ice Shard and is anti meta with all Sand Offense teams.

It has seven weaknesses including Rock and Steel, how does it do well against sand at all?

 

[Aurious]

And yes it has three notable resistances (Water, Ground and Electric) but the defensive typing is shit cause of all the weaknesses it has. 2x Rocks hurts too and its not that good against Sand Offense cause it gets easily destroyed by an iron head from exca after rocks. Abamasnow -> Unranked

 

[skies]

I've been trying to get off Mega Abomasnow for a bit, glad to see some others are noticing this as well! I used to play Trick Room A TON and I never once thought: man, I wish I had Mega Abomasnow. I always wanted Mega Mawile over it because it performs so much better under Trick Room, hell, even Mega Heracross was better in Trick Room than Mega Abomasnow. It had so many weaknesses, was forced out by so much, didn't hit hard enough and its bulk didn't really shine for me. Its Hail is also very detrimental to Trick Room teams, as they switch a lot and the Hail racks up, as not many Ice-types are viable on Trick Room. Mega Abomasnow's weakness to Stealth Rock is much more apparent when taking into consideration how often it switches, and how often Trick Room teams switch anyways. It's outclassed by everything and anything honestly, mainly ALL other megas. Supporting the move of Mega Abomasnow -> Unranked.

 

[Gloating]

Well for one it does well against Landorus-T, the genies, and can hit stuff hard on the switch if they were predicting Ice Shard. It removes sand too with it's ability and has nice defensive stats. I'm not going to comment if it should stay ranked or not but it's not all that bad.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

mega snow is just pure shit. like, if i wanted a mixed wall breaker, fucking salamence is better than this thing, and kyu-b is just leagues better. kyu-b actually has resists against water, grass, and electric, as well as less weaknesses. there are far better trick room megas too(amph, mawile)

 

[TFL]

I've tried to get MegaSnow booted from the list like 3 times in the past lol. It just plain sucks for all the reasons theV8man stated. And I don't get why we need these long drawn out posts explaining why something is bad when we can do it in bullet points like this:

Cons:

• 7 Weaknesses.
• It doesn't even want to switch in on what it resists because it get hits hard by coverage or secondary STAB.
• Weak to Stealth Rock while being best used on a (not good) team archetype that doesn't use Defog or Rapid Spin.
• Doesn't hit hard enough to wall break, even when fully invested.
• Its Ice Shard is weaker than LO Mamoswine's - use that if you want to hate on Genie teams.
• Speed that rivals, what, Ferrothorn?

Pros: Its sprite looks cool. lol

 

[Srn]

Man I can agree that mega gyarados is really nice and all, consistently setting up with solid bulk and great typing before and after mega evo. There's seriously just a truckload of crap this guy sets up on its great. But i've never been a huge fan of it for one reason: Power

Mega gyarados is SERIOUSLY lacking in the power department. You got mega tyranitar, strolling down the lane with a nice 100 base power stab with 164 base attack, mega charizard-x is rocking a free life orb boost on his relevant attacks and a clean 120 base power stab, man even dragonite doesn't have a problem with 120 bp outrage coming off of 134 attack. And then this:

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 325-384 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO

Then you look at this tiny shrimp with 80 bp stab and 155 base attack that hardly even 2hko's friggin chansey after a boost. Its just not as impressive these other offensive behemoths and their raw power. Mega gyarados just requires more pokemon to be weakened or eliminated in order for it to sweep, and while it may set up more consistently, its lack of power ultimately doesn't see things through and carry the sweep all the way. That's the reason why I never use mega gyarados; sure it can set up easier and more often but i'll take the raw power of char-x and ttar that will sweep teams thoroughly over consistency any day. Mega Gyara for A+

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

Man I can agree that mega gyarados is really nice and all, consistently setting up with solid bulk and great typing before and after mega evo. There's seriously just a truckload of crap this guy sets up on its great. But i've never been a huge fan of it for one reason: Power

Mega gyarados is SERIOUSLY lacking in the power department. You got mega tyranitar, strolling down the lane with a nice 100 base power stab with 164 base attack, mega charizard-x is rocking a free life orb boost on his relevant attacks and a clean 120 base power stab, man even dragonite doesn't have a problem with 120 bp outrage coming off of 134 attack. And then this:

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 325-384 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage

Then you look at this tiny shrimp with 80 bp stab and 155 base attack that hardly even 2hko's friggin chansey. Its just not as impressive these other offensive behemoths and their raw power. Mega gyarados just requires more pokemon to be weakened or eliminated in order for it to sweep, and while it may set up more consistently, its lack of power ultimately doesn't see things through and carry the sweep all the way. That's the reason why I never use mega gyarados; sure it can set up easier and more often but i'll take the raw power of char-x and ttar that will sweep teams thoroughly over consistency any day. Mega Gyara for A+

you call something with more overall attack than azumarill lacking in the power department? and anyways, consistency is one of the key things to have in pokemon, its why focus blast is commonly regarded as a bad move, because it isn't consistent. same thing with stone edge and even hjk. i would rather take consistency over power.

 

[Salemance]

you call something with more overall attack than azumarill lacking in the power department? and anyways, consistency is one of the key things to have in pokemon, its why focus blast is commonly regarded as a bad move, because it isn't consistent. same thing with stone edge and even hjk. i would rather take consistency over power.

Yah cause Azumarill is able to also hold an item, BD to stupid power, a usable secondary STAB, and priority. Its a bit more powerful than Mega Dos just for the fact it has a STAB higher than 80 BP.

 

[theV8man]

The only Genie this thing KO's with Ice Shard is Lando IF it has attack investment, which sometimes it doesn't... It can't even do 50% to defensive Lando-T after intimidate... and like TFL mentioned it's a waste of a bad-ass sprite!

Once again there should be little to no objection of Abomasnow => Unranked

Man I can agree that mega gyarados is really nice and all, consistently setting up with solid bulk and great typing before and after mega evo. There's seriously just a truckload of crap this guy sets up on its great. But i've never been a huge fan of it for one reason: Power

Mega gyarados is SERIOUSLY lacking in the power department. You got mega tyranitar, strolling down the lane with a nice 100 base power stab with 164 base attack, mega charizard-x is rocking a free life orb boost on his relevant attacks and a clean 120 base power stab, man even dragonite doesn't have a problem with 120 bp outrage coming off of 134 attack. And then this:

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 325-384 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage

Then you look at this tiny shrimp with 80 bp stab and 155 base attack that hardly even 2hko's friggin chansey after a boost. Its just not as impressive these other offensive behemoths and their raw power. Mega gyarados just requires more pokemon to be weakened or eliminated in order for it to sweep, and while it may set up more consistently, its lack of power ultimately doesn't see things through and carry the sweep all the way. That's the reason why I never use mega gyarados; sure it can set up easier and more often but i'll take the raw power of char-x and ttar that will sweep teams thoroughly over consistency any day. Mega Gyara for A+

^ I also agree with this.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

Yah cause Azumarill is able to also hold an item, BD to stupid power, a usable secondary STAB, and priority. Its a bit more powerful than Mega Dos just for the fact it has a STAB higher than 80 BP.

azumarill's most common held item is an assault vest, and the 90 accuracy of its secondary STAB fucks you over a bit of the time. BD is mediocre in this meta because aqua jet isn't getting you a lot of OHKOs even after BD, so you have to tank a hit with your reduced bulk. band i'll admit is a bit underused but the ability to switch moves is too great an advantage when we're considering the fact that mega gyarados should be sweeping teams.

 

[Aurious]

Its Sitrus Berry, than CB and than AV Bro....
http://sweepercalc.com/stats/

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

Its Sitrus Berry, than CB and than AV Bro....
http://sweepercalc.com/stats/

what? i could have sworn av was the most common set. it's the best set, either way.

 

[procrastinat]

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 325-384 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage

Just out of curiosity and not disagreeing with you at all, but why is there sandstorm in that calc?

you call something with more overall attack than azumarill lacking in the power department? and anyways, consistency is one of the key things to have in pokemon, its why focus blast is commonly regarded as a bad move, because it isn't consistent. same thing with stone edge and even hjk. i would rather take consistency over power.

Consistency is great and all, but there's a reason why fire blast is used over flamethrower for offensive fire special fire types/coverage, and that's because it's superior power makes it more consistent anyway. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but generally, 80% accuracy is considered the minimum accuracy for a sweeping move, and while it won't always hit, when it does hit, it gets the job done. As Srn9130 already demonstrated, waterfall doesn't have the power to sweep through teams with just one boost consistently.

I'm not arguing for Mega-gyarados to drop, I think it's right at home in A+ alongside M-Tar, M-Venu, and terrakion, but not alongside azumarill, M-Mawile, Thundurus and Landorus, who either need no support to do their job or require a bit of support in exchange for massive returns. Gyarados just needs more support in the form of pokemon, that are not even dedicated stops to it, being weakened before it can sweep.

Keep Mega-Gyarados in A+.

 

[Srn]

Just out of curiosity and not disagreeing with you at all, but why is there sandstorm in that calc?




Consistency is great and all, but there's a reason why fire blast is used over flamethrower for offensive fire special fire types/coverage, and that's because it's superior power makes it more consistent anyway. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but generally, 80% accuracy is considered the minimum accuracy for a sweeping move, and while it won't always hit, when it does hit, it gets the job done. As Srn9130 already demonstrated, waterfall doesn't have the power to sweep through teams with just one boost consistently.

I'm not arguing for Mega-gyarados to drop, I think it's right at home in A+ alongside M-Tar, M-Venu, and terrakion, but not alongside azumarill, M-Mawile, Thundurus and Landorus, who either need no support to do their job or require a bit of support in exchange for massive returns. Gyarados just needs more support in the form of pokemon, that are not even dedicated stops to it, being weakened before it can sweep.

Keep Mega-Gyarados in A+.

Oh bop lel fixed.
Agreeing with what you said for the mostly, I left out the whole offensive support part.

 

[MilkyWay]

Before we unrank Mega Abomnasnow shouldnt we at least wait for Mega Mawile to be banned? The suspect tests ends in a half an hour and the verdict (hopefully) wont take too long. Since Mega Snow's only real niche is as a trick room sweeper and because it faces tough competition from Mega Mawile in that department it only makes sense to wait just a little longer before making any changes in this case.

 

[hey yal]

is mandibuzz moving down anytime soon? i know it's a good defogger, but wasn't mandibuzzz's main job / niche to take care of aegislash?

 

[TFL]

Before we unrank Mega Abomnasnow shouldnt we at least wait for Mega Mawile to be banned? The suspect tests ends in a half an hour and the verdict (hopefully) wont take too long. Since Mega Snow's only real niche is as a trick room sweeper and because it faces tough competition from Mega Mawile in that department it only makes sense to wait just a little longer before making any changes in this case.

Nah, coz it doesn't change the fact that it sucks.

 

[Aurious]

TFL is right, there are a few Megas and normal Mons who outclass Megasnow as Trick Room Sweeper easily even after MMawile is banned, for example Mega-Ampharos or Mega-Heracross. Mega-Abamasnow has no niche in OU!

 

[Karxrida]

As long as we're talking about shitty Megas, kick Mega Banette off. It's slow, frail, can't keep itself alive, is outclassed at anything Prankster related by Thundurus (sweeper stopping with T-Wave) and Sableye (Priority Taunt and spreading Burns like the plague). Prankster not activating the turn you Mega Evolve makes it super hard to do so without getting crippled or murdered outright unless you waste a moveslot on Protect (which also gives you massive 4MSS) and means you're useless if you didn't find time to MEvo before you come in and do your job. Prankster D-Bond is cool in theory, but super predictable in practice and is not hard to out-prioritize or just PP stall. You want to run Shadow Claw, Knock Off, Taunt, Will-O-Wisp, Thunder Wave, Destiny Bond, and Protect all at once but you can't and are unable to deal with Defensive and Offensive teams at the same time depending on what you drop.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Before we unrank Mega Abomnasnow shouldnt we at least wait for Mega Mawile to be banned? The suspect tests ends in a half an hour and the verdict (hopefully) wont take too long. Since Mega Snow's only real niche is as a trick room sweeper and because it faces tough competition from Mega Mawile in that department it only makes sense to wait just a little longer before making any changes in this case.

Why not Mega Heracross? Base 75 works just fine with negative nature and 0 speed IVs+EVs. You hit 139 speed, which is only a tad faster (slower) than uninvested base 50's (136.) And of course, it hits stupid hard, with an attack stat that dwarfs Aboma's, and has similar bulk and doesn't have a million weaknesses (4 vs. 7; plus Psychic and Fairy are almost exclusively used as STAB's.)

Or why not Mega Ampharos? It relies on lower-BP moves but it has much higher SpA; Dragon Pulse and Thunderbolt off of base 165 hits only slightly less than Blizzard off of base 132, though it can't go mixed. It's just as bulky: and the defensive typing is leagues better, it's resisting Talonflame's dual STABs, Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet, so it's quite resistant to strong priority which is good for a TR sweeper.

And of course.... TR teams could just go without a mega. Cause Abomasnow is really just bad.

 

[Prinz]

I agree that both Mega Abomasnow and Mega Banette shouldn't be ranked, they are just outclasses in their role by better mons and they have 0 niches in OU so there is no reasons why someone should use them tbh.

Also I support to keep Mega Gyarados in A+ rank. While it has both cool typing in regular and mega form, both cool ability one which allows it to setup easier (Intimidate) and one which allows it to break things easier (Mold Breaker). However, it hasn't lot of options unlike Char-X or Mawile which are actually S Rank and the only set that it rly used is the Dragon Dance one, you can use Substitute / Taunt > Ice Fang to have an easier way against Stall teams or status in general but thats it, if you use Substitute or Taunt in place of Ice Fang you will lose anyway coverage on things like Dragonite and Latios which isn't good. Adding to that, it also relies on a 80 base power STAB, that while is quite strong with Mega Gyarados' base attack of 155 it isn't as strong as Pinsir's Return or Mega Char-X's Outrage. Finally, we all can also notice a rising in usage of things like Choice Scarf Keldeo (once again you can just give a look on frontier games) which makes life for Gyarados much worse. Because of all that I think that an A+ ranking is already fine for Mega Gyarados, it is a really good mon but it isn't a top tier mon either.

 

[Albacore]

Yeah, I think I'm finally feeling the XZard drop. To me, it suffers from Mega-Pinsir syndrome : on paper, it looks ridiculously good and powerful, but the metagame is really, really hostile to it. Not only does sand offense tear it apart, but the recent rise of water types really doesn't help is a lot, and Lando-T is on every other team and both the scarf and physically defensive sets deal with it well. Teams tend to inherently have something to deal with it, since what beats it beats a lot of other stuff too. Still, the WoW set is amazing (best set IMO), and may well be enough to keep it in S.

Really on the fence about Lando-T. On the one hand, I agree with TRC that lack of reliable recovery really hurts it, and it gets worn down quite badly. The fact that Water types, and to a lesser extent Mamoswine, have become extremely common really doesn't do it any favors. Also, from experience, it often tries to deal with too many threats and ends up getting overwhelmed. However, it provides really great utility and deals with a lot of big threats The physically defensive set takes physical hits really well though, and is a pretty decent rock setter, despite not really winning vs any defoggers, since it's able to pivot out into something that threatens the defogger. The Scarf set is also really solid, acting as a great lead and momentum-gainer. And the fact that even when weakened, it can be sacked for a free Intimidate is really nice. An interesting thing about Lando-T is, now that MMedi/MGarde/MHera are super popular, Lando-I is no longer the go-to wallbreaker you typically find on offensive teams, and thus, it dropped in usage, which explains why Lando-T is so common since you can now run that without havng to worry about Stall. Food for thought.

idk why MAboma is even ranked in the first place, you literally need TR to make it usable and even then it's herdly good.