252+ SpA Mega Glalie Hidden Power Grass (70 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 224-266 (73.6 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yeah, it hits it fairly hard, factoring in STAB.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
- Start date
- Status
Yeah, it hits it fairly hard, factoring in STAB.
252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 126-148 (37.7 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lopunny: 114-135 (42 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 109-130 (24.5 - 29.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Cresselia Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lopunny: 79-94 (29.1 - 34.6%) -- 7.4% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def non-Mega Slowbro: 117-138 (29.6 - 35%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA non-Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lopunny: 90-106 (33.2 - 39.1%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
That's a few good switch-ins. There's also a few solid checks to it, including Mega Metagross, Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Scizor, Talonflame, SDef Gyarados (if it's not running ThunderPunch), Rhyperior, Mega Aggron and Clefable.
I think both of them will be viable in OU. Now, whether or not they actually make OU by usage is another story, but you really won't know how viable or popular they are until ORAS gets here. I'm sure that very few people thought Mega Manectric would end up OU by usage when XY first started, but it turns out that Electric typing + Intimidate + solid coverage + base 135 Spe are all cool traits that combine to make a pretty solid offensive Pokemon. Both Mega Beedrill and Mega Sceptile have plenty of solid traits of their own that could make them good OU choices. It'll just depend on how the metagame progresses and what sort of competition they end up having.
If we're talking about sweepers that work only one time(because, you know, you can't perform the trick of Speed Boost+Mega twice), then Mega Sharpedo is outclassed for the most part by Hawlucha, which has better offensive(and even defensive) typing, access to Swords Dance, Unburden wich not only gives a larger boost than Speed Boost, but makes you less predictable as you can gather the boost whenever you want, and you can do that while attacking, too(with Sky Attack Power Herb or, better, when released, Flying Gem Acrobatics), and, minor as it might be, cockblocks Ditto. Hawlucha also doesn't occupy your Mega Slot.
Heck even Slurpuff is better, considering that setting up is relatively easy and how jawbreaking the power of a +6 Play Rough is, expecially now that steels can't save you because of Drain Punch.
would like to share CAMEL
Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock -> Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe OR 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Will-O-Wisp
I feel like too many people are focusing on the defensive aspect of Camerupt and its niche role on Trick Room in this thread as well as on the whole, but not enough on how devastating of a nuking tank it can be. To give you an idea, it has a chance to 2HKO Slowbro with FIRE BLAST after Stealth Rock damage, does like half to Rotom-W, almost OHKOes Landorus-I, does like 80% to Keldeo with Earth Power, does 70%+ to non-AV Azumarill with Earth Power and still does a solid 50% to AV, does 70% to mixed defensive Clefable let alone fully defensive Clefable (which takes something like 80% iirc), does half to Latios with Fire Blast, does upwards of 80% to Garchomp with Earth Power, does 70ish% to Mega Venusaur...you get the idea, this thing is ridiculously strong. Camerupt has the ample typing and bulk to switch into Pokemon like Clefable, Electrics, Scizor, Mew, and Heatran as well as beating many mons 1v1 with its excellent bulk such as Mega Lopunny and Talonflame, and coming into common defensive Pokemon like Ferrothorn.
The moveset I have here is really just the combination of moves I've found to be the most effective. Once in a blue moon do I actually use the moves besides Fire Blast or Earth Power, but when they do come in handy it's pretty nice, for example Ancient Power vs Talonflame in particular. I honestly think it's a shitty Stealth Rock setter because I always want to nuke the switch-ins, not get up Stealth Rock. One of the EV spreads I have outspeeds Slowbro (highly recommend a little bit more creep actually), really depends on your team as to whether you want that or more bulk considering Slowbro isn't /that/ common.
Replay vs a rather typical balanced sort of squad: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-176377357
Replay vs stall: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-175763515
Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock -> Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe OR 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Will-O-Wisp
I feel like too many people are focusing on the defensive aspect of Camerupt and its niche role on Trick Room in this thread as well as on the whole, but not enough on how devastating of a nuking tank it can be. To give you an idea, it has a chance to 2HKO Slowbro with FIRE BLAST after Stealth Rock damage, does like half to Rotom-W, almost OHKOes Landorus-I, does like 80% to Keldeo with Earth Power, does 70%+ to non-AV Azumarill with Earth Power and still does a solid 50% to AV, does 70% to mixed defensive Clefable let alone fully defensive Clefable (which takes something like 80% iirc), does half to Latios with Fire Blast, does upwards of 80% to Garchomp with Earth Power, does 70ish% to Mega Venusaur...you get the idea, this thing is ridiculously strong. Camerupt has the ample typing and bulk to switch into Pokemon like Clefable, Electrics, Scizor, Mew, and Heatran as well as beating many mons 1v1 with its excellent bulk such as Mega Lopunny and Talonflame, and coming into common defensive Pokemon like Ferrothorn.
The moveset I have here is really just the combination of moves I've found to be the most effective. Once in a blue moon do I actually use the moves besides Fire Blast or Earth Power, but when they do come in handy it's pretty nice, for example Ancient Power vs Talonflame in particular. I honestly think it's a shitty Stealth Rock setter because I always want to nuke the switch-ins, not get up Stealth Rock. One of the EV spreads I have outspeeds Slowbro (highly recommend a little bit more creep actually), really depends on your team as to whether you want that or more bulk considering Slowbro isn't /that/ common.
Replay vs a rather typical balanced sort of squad: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-176377357
Replay vs stall: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-175763515
I think that mega sceptile will be ou, but mega beedrill will definitely be uu or lower. Having faced both on the ladder many times, I can say sceptile is a very good pokemon who only performs badly against stall. Against offense it is very hard to beat because nothing can really take a hit. Only priority and scarfers such as landorus-t can revenge kill it, making the substitute set amazing. Once mega salamence gets kicked to ubers, it will be even better because ice shard users will stop being so common. Against balance it is still good, but it is walled by a few pokemon, such as clefable, mega metagross and mew (although the substitute set with some hp investment can actually beat it.)
Mega beedrill, on the other hand, is quite frankly shit. Bug and Poison are terrible stab moves, and it is forced to run protect, leaving it limited to either drill run or knock off in the last slot. This leaves it completely walled by gliscor, landorus and landorus-t, skarmory, ferrothorn, scizor and depending on which coverage move it runs, terrakion, gengar, heatran, magnezone, megagross and more. It is stealth rock weak, has such shit bulk it dies to literally any priority move that isnt mach punch, is forced to protect the first turn it comes in, etc. I have never had an issue with it, even with the amount it is being spammed on the ladder.
He's still frail as shit and because he can only get that speed boost once before he mega evolves, he offers basically no team synergy. Honestly he doesn't seem that great so far.
I think that some of the people here really don't get how Mega Beedrill works effectively and don't have that much experience facing it. For example, Pagoose (not picking on you, just trying to illustrate a point). Bug and Poison STABs are actually pretty damn scary for many mons in the tier, and with Drill Run to back them up, not many Pokemon wall Mega Beedrill. First of all, what you're saying is heavily flawed. When running Drill Run, the only mons on your list that can actually deal with Mega Beedrill are Gliscor, Gengar, Landorus-I, Landorus-T, Skarmory, and Scizor. Ferrothorn needs an enormous amount of defensive investment (which means it can't really beat Greninja) to switch into U-turn with any degree of consistency, and even then it never appreciates it. In general, it's a pain in the ass for offensive and bulky offensive teams, aka the dominant ORAS playstyle by a longshot, to switch into, as Landorus-T is really the only thing and Scarf variants can be worn out rather fast with U-turn doing like 35ish iirc (don't quote me on this it's anecdotal) plus cannot really go for U-turn due to Protect scouting that. Besides that, so much of the team is threatened by the sheer power and threat of Adapatability U-turn and Poison Jab. With such a powerful U-turn, it's really hard to punish it even with your counters because it can hit your mon for some damage and pivot right out to something that shits on that. There are very few situations where Beedrill's counters actually have some ability to take advantage of it. It is a huge offensive threat that is so good at retaining momentum for its team, especially with proper VoltTurn teammates.
I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM
formerly Smog Frog
so i noticed that mega bro has 130 satk and great coverage, and i think it could make a decent tank.
Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpA / 32 SDef
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam/Fire Blast/Psyshock
- Grass Knot
- Slack Off
now mega slowbro has titanic defense. it doesnt need to be invested in to be a cockblock to a majority of the meta. so i decided(well Toxzn gave me the inspiration a few days ago)to make a set. it has coverage, bulk, and a fair amount of power to boot. the EVs let it tank keldeo ez pz, and its typing+bulk let it take on a majority of the physical meta. grass knot is for stuff like gyara, azumarill, and waters in general. scald is the thing you spam to spread burns, and the coverage move is just based on team needs(ice beam is a great offensive type in general, fire blast roasts bulky grass n stuff, and psyshock is just cool.) slack off is obligatory so you can tank stuff throughout the match while still dishing out damage. it may not be the most optimal set but i think its a usable set for bulky offense teams looking for a bulky water that packs a punch.
Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpA / 32 SDef
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam/Fire Blast/Psyshock
- Grass Knot
- Slack Off
now mega slowbro has titanic defense. it doesnt need to be invested in to be a cockblock to a majority of the meta. so i decided(well Toxzn gave me the inspiration a few days ago)to make a set. it has coverage, bulk, and a fair amount of power to boot. the EVs let it tank keldeo ez pz, and its typing+bulk let it take on a majority of the physical meta. grass knot is for stuff like gyara, azumarill, and waters in general. scald is the thing you spam to spread burns, and the coverage move is just based on team needs(ice beam is a great offensive type in general, fire blast roasts bulky grass n stuff, and psyshock is just cool.) slack off is obligatory so you can tank stuff throughout the match while still dishing out damage. it may not be the most optimal set but i think its a usable set for bulky offense teams looking for a bulky water that packs a punch.
I made a Mega Beedrill Team since it was one of the new megas that was super hyped and I've had success with this team. Basically started off with Mega Beedrill since it was the star of the team. Since Ferro, Skarm, Scizor all commonly come in on Beedrill, I decided to go with the poke that can trap them and deal with em', which is Magnezone. Shed Shell Skarm is the only thing you have to worry about since it doesn't get trapped my Magnezone. I chose Scarf Magnezone rather than Specs Magnezone to keep up volt/turn momentum. Mega Beedrill/Magnezone, who are the star of the team, being weak to ground moves and hazards, I decided to go with Latios who can get rid of hazards and also surprise Heatran with eq so Mega Beedrill/Magnezone don't have to worry about it and can do work. Clefable is there as support to spread T-Wave and set up Stealth Rocks for passive dmg and makes your opponent pay a tax for switching. The team is weak to bird spam and sand offensive, so I decided to go with Rotom-W who also helps with the volt/turn core and spread will-o-wisp. welp; enjoy the team.
Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drill Run/Protect
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake
- Defog
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drill Run/Protect
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake
- Defog
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
Wow, that is eerily similar to a team I made about a week ago. I just had Ferro with some SpDef investment over Clefable. Same purpose though, Rocks and TWave.
I made a Mega Beedrill Team since it was one of the new megas that was super hyped and I've had success with this team. Basically started off with Mega Beedrill since it was the star of the team. Since Ferro, Skarm, Scizor all commonly come in on Beedrill, I decided to go with the poke that can trap them and deal with em', which is Magnezone. Shed Shell Skarm is the only thing you have to worry about since it doesn't get trapped my Magnezone. I chose Scarf Magnezone rather than Specs Magnezone to keep up volt/turn momentum. Mega Beedrill/Magnezone, who are the star of the team, being weak to ground moves and hazards, I decided to go with Latios who can get rid of hazards and also surprise Heatran with eq so Mega Beedrill/Magnezone don't have to worry about it and can do work. Clefable is there as support to spread T-Wave and set up Stealth Rocks for passive dmg and makes your opponent pay a tax for switching. The team is weak to bird spam and sand offensive, so I decided to go with Rotom-W who also helps with the volt/turn core and spread will-o-wisp. welp; enjoy the team.
Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drill Run/Protect
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Earthquake
- Defog
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
OU the Metagame ^^^
So I haven't following the thread page for page so sorry If I mention something already said. Alright so is it just me or is M-Swampert sort of....underwhelming? Not exactly sure where the hype is coming from honestly but I really don't see this as the greatest of choices in rain when I rather just use M-Sceptile or M-Heracross. I guess it hits really hard which I can't argue that fact but as far as being your rain mega I haven't been able to get the hype. Has anyone had some success outside of using it in rain?
M-Glalie is so underwhelming it's ridiculous. The sole justification of using it for Refrigerate Explosion is definitely not even worth it. It would be fine as an offensive Spiker if its typing wasn't a free turn for so many things in the tier to just come and switch in for free. Unless someone makes Hail Offense viable I don't see how this would leave any sort of lasting impact in the metagame, at least in OU.
Well, I can't speak for Mega
TL;DR, it's a force to be reckoned with in the rain, but otherwise, it's not really that spectacular.
I wasn't a believer of Rain Dance on Mega Swampert at first either, but considering it's essentially the same thing as DD for him for 5 turns, and plenty of mons run that, you can view it more of a boosting setup move, rather than a weather setting move. His natural bulk and relative lack of weaknesses puts him in a very good position to run such a move, and it makes him self sufficient rather than relying on pivoting in and out with a Politoad or another (presumably) bad rain setter.
Well it's relatively likely to receive Freeze Dry, which would help kill some of the things that otherwise come in for free.
Anyway, what are people thinking about for the nature on Sceptile/Beedrill? Is the speed for Manectric worth it, or is it probably better to just aim for Greninja and get extra power?
As far as M-Sceptile goes aim for Greninja and incorporate it with something like Heatran and others for checking M-Manectric. Haven't had enough use to speak on Beedrill but Neutral speed nature with an increase in offense is better for M-Sceptile at least right now.
On Sceptile, Special builds will use Modest, and have decent enough speed barring mega man. On physical sets, Jolly with Swords Dance gives you roughly the same stats as a Char X after a DD.
I actually had a little bit of success using Mega Swampert in an offensive FWG core with Heatran and Celebi. Balances well with two special attackers and Swamp being more physically based. Some variation of this:
Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
That allows it to outspeed base 65 speed foes with speed boosting natures (ex Timid Goth, Jolly TTar) and 70 base speed foes with neutral natures (ex Adamant Bisharp). Alternately, 228 Jolly allows Swampert to outspeed Adamant Diggersby (base 78), and 244 Jolly allows Swamp to outspeed Adamant Dragonite and Adamant Mamoswine (base 80). For the record, here's the other parts of my FWG core that fit well with Swamp:
Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Stone Edge / Hidden Power [Ice]
Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover
So Swamp does have some use outside of the Rain, but you are right it isn't exactly overwhelming. I tend to think of it more like Mega Houndoom, if it's in the target weather great, if it's not who cares. I think it actually does have a lot of use on balance teams that have trouble with Rain as an anti-Rain weapon and as something that can hang with other SSers speed-wise.
Edit: It's also a decent alternative to Mega Gyarados because it comes attached with fewer weaknesses. Mega Gyara is way more threatening overall, but Mega Swampert is a similar alternative from a power perspective that stacks fewer weaknesses. Substitute sets between the two also play similar. So you basically trade Dragon Dance for fewer weaknesses and help against Rain teams. Even something like Waterfall/Earthquake/Substitute/Rain Dance could be useable outside of dedicated Rain teams, especially if you make a two man core of Thundy-I or Torn-T and Mega Swampert, or something like that.
Last edited:
This is just my opinion, but I'm thinking that those two would be BL or UU. While Sceptile does have an awesome dual 145 Speed/Sp. Attack, the Lati twins would just completely wall it because of their high 110/130 Sp. Defenses despite D-pulse, and while Sceptile does gain increased speed and power (and the Dragon typing), Lati@s could retaliate using a powerful Draco Meteor on the grass reptile, dealing huge amounts of damage. Beedrill, on the other hand, have his unique STAB Adaptability U-Turn and the awesome 150 Attack/145 Speed, which might seem awesome at first glance, but his defenses are awful, sitting at a troll 40/80 Def/Sp.Def. If it is to be used in OU, it will be walled by M-Scizor, who would retaliate with a good hard Bullet punch, and just getting OHKOed by Talonflame's Adamant Choice Band +1 Brave Bird. At UU, however, It could have the potential to be a huge threat, ending up at the A rank or S rank, but priority attacks just ruin its viability.
Last edited:
Mega Sceptile is faster than both and hits them super effectively with its STAB move Dragon Pulse.
252 SpA Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 278-330 (92 - 109.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 72 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 240-284 (75.2 - 89%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
It certainly can't switch in on either of the Lati twins, but it wins 1v1 almost all of the time against. them.
.. True. It does have a huge speed tier, tying with M-Beedrill and outclassed only by M-Aerodactyl and M-Alakazam.
-1 252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill U-turn vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 68-81 (20.9 - 24.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
in what universe is mega beedrill doing 35% to a lando-t with u-turn
did u switch into a scarf lando-t in a predicted knock off or something lol
Also, as far as adamant/modest mega beedril/sceptile goes, I think beedrill cud be ok cuz it has protect, but you lose to mega lopunny.
Sceptile on the other hand has a nice base 120 speed pre-evo and u cud definitely come in on starmie or latias to mega evolve safely and kill which doesn't happen if u go modest, so stick with timid here.
Indirectly related to the new Megas, do you guys think it's worth it to run Jolly/Timid on Zam and Aerodactyl now? All these base 145 and 135 mons would make it seem more useful. I'm just wondering if the power loss is worth it, or if you should just be comfortable with out speeding most of the unboosted meta instead of all of it.
- Status