Pokémon Metagross

[SparksBlade]

...Sen Headbutt...

it's in the description of the 1st set.

I kind of agree that Metagross needs every possible coverage it can fit in one set. It's STABs not being the greatest, it relies on the coverage it can get. Agility should only be used if you're sure you don't need the Ice Punch/Grass Knot w/e and can easily handle those mons. Also, as Metagross misses out on some coverage, it'll have to switch out at some point, and we all know what switching implies-hazard damage. So it needs a hazard remover(everything needs hazard removal actually but still). While Metagross doesn't worry about rocks and tspikes, w/e that switches in has to. I was thinking of Mandibuzz, but as it doesn't like rocks up itself, i would say Latias can partner with it well.

 

[Clone]

it's in the description of the 1st set.

I kind of agree that Metagross needs every possible coverage it can fit in one set. It's STABs not being the greatest, it relies on the coverage it can get. Agility should only be used if you're sure you don't need the Ice Punch/Grass Knot w/e and can easily handle those mons. Also, as Metagross misses out on some coverage, it'll have to switch out at some point, and we all know what switching implies-hazard damage. So it needs a hazard remover(everything needs hazard removal actually but still). While Metagross doesn't worry about rocks and tspikes, w/e that switches in has to. I was thinking of Mandibuzz, but as it doesn't like rocks up itself, i would say Latias can partner with it well.

Zen Headbutt is a necessity to be able to hit the likes of Keldeo, Rotom, Zapdos, Conkeldurr, Mega Venusaur, and Gengar. The first three are huge, considering that they're everywhere in the ORAS metagame. Being walled b Rotom and Zapdos is in no way, shape, or form a good thing, as both have the capability to Volt Switch out to gain momentum. The moves listed in the physical wallbreaker set are and should be the standard go to moves, as they provide the most power with the best coverage. If. Metagross had Fire Punch, then hat would be an option. But he doesn't, so he has to live with bein walled by certain steel types.

As for Agility, the whole point of that set is to use it once his c&cs are gone. Meteor Mash / Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt is perfectly acceptable, seeing as only steel types wall these moves. Pair it with Magnezone and a powerful wallbreaker, and you're golden. The only other option I could see is Hammer Arm, which has the capability to beat a on rocky helm Skarm eventually, but that's about it.

 

[SparksBlade]

Zen Headbutt is a necessity to be able to hit the likes of Keldeo, Rotom, Zapdos, Conkeldurr, Mega Venusaur, and Gengar. The first three are huge, considering that they're everywhere in the ORAS metagame. Being walled b Rotom and Zapdos is in no way, shape, or form a good thing, as both have the capability to Volt Switch out to gain momentum. The moves listed in the physical wallbreaker set are and should be the standard go to moves, as they provide the most power with the best coverage. If. Metagross had Fire Punch, then hat would be an option. But he doesn't, so he has to live with bein walled by certain steel types.

As for Agility, the whole point of that set is to use it once his c&cs are gone. Meteor Mash / Ice Punch / Zen Headbutt is perfectly acceptable, seeing as only steel types wall these moves. Pair it with Magnezone and a powerful wallbreaker, and you're golden. The only other option I could see is Hammer Arm, which has the capability to beat a on rocky helm Skarm eventually, but that's about it.

*sighs* did you read what i quoted? "Sen Headbutt", not "Zen Headbutt". I meant that you should correct "Sen" to "Zen" oh god you were so determined to blast me :/

 

[Clone]

*sighs* did you read what i quoted? "Sen Headbutt", not "Zen Headbutt". I meant that you should correct "Sen" to "Zen" oh god you were so determined to blast me :/

My bad... I took the second part of our post as reasoning to not run Zen Headbutt. Edited.

 

[thelandlordsmm]

Some Exacdrill carry Life Orb instead, the most recent usage stats favor Life Orb by 10% over Air Balloon.

0- SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Omastar: 292-344 (103.9 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0- SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kabutops: 292-344 (111.8 - 131.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 390-460 (108 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 518-610 (143.4 - 168.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0- SpA Tough Claws Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert: 264-312 (77.4 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 282-332 (80.3 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 122-144 (41.9 - 49.4%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 181-213 (62.1 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Metagross in Rain: 286-339 (81.4 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You line up well against a lot of Rain sweepers well. Kingdra has to be Specs to beat it, and you can still dent it and even beat it if it's LO Kingdra. Also, I know you're thinking it, why use Hammer Arm and Agility on the same set? It's more than doable, Mega Scizor does a very similar thing with Superpower and Swords Dance. Meteor Mash/Hammer Arm/Grass Knot/Agility beats basically every weather sweeper once set-up.

Doesn't Grass Knot have 100BP against Mega Swampert? Serebii lists M-Swampert at 102kg, which is just enough for GK to be 100BP.

With a 100BP grass knot, M-Metagross with a -Sp. Atk nature does 97.4% minimum to M-Swampert with no defense investment.

 

[Celticpride]

Doesn't Grass Knot have 100BP against Mega Swampert? Serebii lists M-Swampert at 102kg, which is just enough for GK to be 100BP.

With a 100BP grass knot, M-Metagross with a -Sp. Atk nature does 97.4% minimum to M-Swampert with no defense investment.

I forgot about that. I modified regular Swampert on the calc but forgot about the weight difference. Thanks for mentioning that. Does it also impact Grass Knot on Mega Slowbro as well?

 

[Jaroda]

I'm not finding Metagross to be a good set-up sweeper. Yeah it can take a hit has bad 4MSS I'm finding as I'm always finding I wish I had about 5 moves for the Jolly set. With his SR resistance, bulk and great speed he makes for a great revenge killer, and can clean well in end game if you abuse Zen Headbutt and Iron Head flinches. He has great longevity with Heal Bell/Wish support, I just with he got U-Turn or something to abuse his speed and switch potential. I think 4 Attack sets are his best sets currently at least because he really needs to hit as many different threats as possible.

 

[thelandlordsmm]

I forgot about that. I modified regular Swampert on the calc but forgot about the weight difference. Thanks for mentioning that. Does it also impact Grass Knot on Mega Slowbro as well?

Yep, Mega Slowbro is in the same boat as Swampert: it takes 80 BP before evolving and 100BP after evolving. Mega Metagross 2HKO's Mega Slowbro with Grass Knot with no investment and a negative nature (obviously provided Slowbro hasn't boosted yet). If GK was 80BP, you'd need Stealth Rock on the field for the chance at the 2HKO.

0- SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro: 214-254 (54.3 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0- SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[SparksBlade]

Yep, Mega Slowbro is in the same boat as Swampert: it takes 80 BP before evolving and 100BP after evolving. Mega Metagross 2HKO's Mega Slowbro with Grass Knot with no investment and a negative nature (obviously provided Slowbro hasn't boosted yet). If GK was 80BP, you'd need Stealth Rock on the field for the chance at the 2HKO.

0- SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro: 214-254 (54.3 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0- SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

sorry if there's something obvious that i'm missing, but why are the calcs with 0-SpA? 4EVs are left, and we can afford a hardy nature. If the calcs are just to support that it doesn't have problems with these mons then that's ok.

 

[firehusky]

That is why he said check. A check is something that can switch in on a certain move, and a counter is a mon that can switch in on all moves. Obviously mandi can't switch in on either of those moves, but it can definitely switch in on earthquake, agility, zen headbutt, or bullet punch.
That was in response to royaldispenser.

 

[thelandlordsmm]

sorry if there's something obvious that i'm missing, but why are the calcs with 0-SpA? 4EVs are left, and we can afford a hardy nature. If the calcs are just to support that it doesn't have problems with these mons then that's ok.

Right, I'm showing that in a worst-case scenario, Mega Metagross can still 2HKO Mega Slowbro with GK. No competitive Pokemon will ever run an all-neutral nature (Hardy, Serious, Bashful, Quirky, Docile) as the benefits of boosting one of your stats by 10% will always outweigh the negatives of decreasing a lesser used stat by 10%. You'd probably not want to compromise Mega Metagross's bulk since it's one of its greatest assets, so a -SpA nature is the best way to go, especially since I've proven you can 2HKO Mega Slowbro and have a shot at OHKO'ing Mega Swampert after Stealth Rock.

 

[Django_Fett]

I'm actually really happy that I came up with the same second set you have for Metagross. I opted out of BB because I covered that weakness elsewhere in my team, and so far rock Polish Mega-Gross has cleaned up shop late game for me, I think I've gone 6-1 with one disconnect recently

 

[firehusky]

Mega gross on baton pass can definitely be very threatening, after it gets to +2 attack and +2 speed, and all it's counters are removed, there's nothing stopping this monster.

 

[SparksBlade]

Mega gross on baton pass can definitely be very threatening, after it gets to +2 attack and +2 speed, and all it's counters are removed, there's nothing stopping this monster.

more than half the meta can be threatening when it's counters are removed and +2 is passed in attack and speed

 

[firehusky]

true dat lol but it probably only needs skarmory and ferrothorn removed, because at +2 it can basically beat most of it's counters 1v1.

 

[SparksBlade]

true dat lol but it probably only needs skarmory and ferrothorn removed, because at +2 it can basically beat most of it's counters 1v1.

it might have trouble against quagsire, and ofc thundy and sableye are annoying. That's why we don't look for seemingly simple methods like "pass it boosts, remove its checks, and it goes KA-BOOM!!!"
Also, tell me what's gonna pass it those boosts(not sash scolipede)

 

[firehusky]

Okay okay I'm not trying to argue with you, it's just an idea, you don't have to get all mad at me for that.

 

[Der Twist]

How about Power-Up Punch? Lacking SD, the only viable offensive set-up moves are Hone Claws and PuP, and I'm not gonna lie, Tough Claws boosted PuP makes my dick tingle, initially anyway. It does leave the set with 4MSS though since PuP is mediocre even with Tough Claws and not the most supreme coverage. My thoughts are probably pretty much the same set as the wall-breaker, only PuP replacing EQ since they both neuter the same threats more or less (T-Tar, Bisharp, Heatran, etc):
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Power-Up Punch
Decent, or retarded? You decide!

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

How about Power-Up Punch? Lacking SD, the only viable offensive set-up moves are Hone Claws and PuP, and I'm not gonna lie, Tough Claws boosted PuP makes my dick tingle, initially anyway. It does leave the set with 4MSS though since PuP is mediocre even with Tough Claws and not the most supreme coverage. My thoughts are probably pretty much the same set as the wall-breaker, only PuP replacing EQ since they both neuter the same threats more or less (T-Tar, Bisharp, Heatran, etc):
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Power-Up Punch
Decent, or retarded? You decide!

Personally, I'm always scared of dropping Earthquake out of fear of being Magnezone bait since ScarfZone can 2HKO you if it gets a free switch, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't like the idea of being able to pump Mega-Gross's attack outside of BP. I may try out the set if I get around to finding out if pairing it with SD BP Scolipede is a bad idea.

 

[Der Twist]

Yeah, I'm not all that fond of dropping EQ either, it does make you more Megazard X bait as well. Sableye will be a living nightmare too, if it's sent in to take a PuP then you lose all your momentum. It has holes in it, but it still might be viable, once you've managed to get to +1 or 2 then Metagross becomes one major fucking powerhouse. Just is it worth it is what I'm hung up on.

 

[Worthlessnoob]

Der Twist I personally prefer Hammer Arm to Earthquake, as even though Earthquake is more accurate and doesn't lower your speed, you still get the OHKOs on Mag with the added benefit of of 2HKOing Ferrothorn.

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 202-238 (57.3 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You can nail it on the switch and it's a dead Ferrothorn. For some reason, people like to switch Ferrothorn in regardless of the situation so it's easy to predict.

 

[preserve]

Personally, I'm always scared of dropping Earthquake out of fear of being Magnezone bait since ScarfZone can 2HKO you if it gets a free switch, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't like the idea of being able to pump Mega-Gross's attack outside of BP. I may try out the set if I get around to finding out if pairing it with SD BP Scolipede is a bad idea.

Not to mention dropping earthquake makes you completely walled by heatran. Something that people are forgetting about.

 

[firehusky]

Not to mention dropping earthquake makes you completely walled by heatran. Something that people are forgetting about.

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Power-Up Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 120-142 (31.1 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Power-Up Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 180-212 (46.7 - 55%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 200-236 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Accounting for low damage rolls and if SR is up:
31.1 + 46.7 = 77.8
77.8 + 12.5 = 90.3
100 - 90.3 = 9.7
So if heatran has taken over 9.7%, it won't be able to "wall" mega metagross anymore.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Power-Up Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 120-142 (31.1 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Power-Up Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 180-212 (46.7 - 55%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 200-236 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It may not wall you, but you're not coming off unscathed. If it's a free switch or a Choice Scarf variant, then you just die.

 

[firehusky]

Heatran is going to take 77.8 - 91.8%, so it's basically dead after SR. Btw, I already posted that calc. Also I don't think anyone would hard switch megagross in on heatran unless predicting SR or toxic, and even then it would be extremely risky.