xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
I blacklist it before GummyPotato makes a total shitpost about it.
Honestly, its completely unviable in every way so there is no point in letting me not have my joke :)
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Honestly, its completely unviable in every way so there is no point in letting me not have my joke :)
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Honestly, the viability rankings indicate how broken zygarde is. In A and S rank alone, how many mons there can be RELIED on to check Pixilate Zygarde? Entei, Arcanine, Levitran, Skarmory...And thats pretty much it. Given enough boosts, a sub, or some chip damage, EVERYTHING else falls easily. Lucario we can handle. The fighting coverage is good, but pixilate, the really devastating espeed, isn't nearly as good on it. On Zygarde, you have the same problem as dragonite with added bulk and stab ground pre-mega. The only thing it doesn't have is the deep movepool options, but does it really need it? My answer is no.
tysequaine
80% sexy, 20% disgusting
So Dragonite has been banned from using stones. Lucario is being suspected. People are talking about how ridiculous Zygarde is.
Are we just going to systematically move from -atespeed abuser to -atespeed abuser, nerfing them all until -atespeed is effectively banned anyway? That seems kind of inefficient.
Are we just going to systematically move from -atespeed abuser to -atespeed abuser, nerfing them all until -atespeed is effectively banned anyway? That seems kind of inefficient.
InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
Alrighty, before I make my massive (maybe) Pidgeotite analysis post, I thought I'd make a couple nominations that I forgot about (yes I forgot about a couple of Pokemon despite working on the VR for 5 hours straight x_x)
Arceus-Fire for B- Rank
With good 120/120/120 bulk and a typing that resists 2 -ates, Arceus Fire is in general a reasonably good wall in Mix and Mega. Being one of the few mons to actually be able to defeat Lucario, as well as being able to switch in on a predicted resisted -atespeed before burning the -atespeeder with Will-O-Wisp gives it a solid niche in Mix and Mega. It also has reliable recovery in Recover (lol) and a powerful Fire-type Judgement. It also has a boatload of options for the 4th moveslot, including Earth Power, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, Ice Beam, Dark Pulse, Flash Cannon, Focus Blast, Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Spacial Rend, and Surf for coverage, or Stealth Rock, Tailwind, Roar, and double screens for support. I personally use Earth Power to bop Victini. It does require good hazard support, as some of these attacks become 2HKOs even after burns if it has to come in on Stealth Rock, which is why I just chose to give it B- Rank, as it is a nice -ate check that has some offensive pressure.
Klinklang for C Rank
This is a mon that was overlooked when creating the rankings, but is a pretty neat mon. With Scizorite equipped, it gains 60/120/155/80/105/100 stats, which is really good. 60/155/105 bulk is pretty good and allows it to tank hits and set up with Shift Gear. It can then sweep with Technician Gear Grind, which is basically a drawbackless 150 BP STAB attack. Its pure steel typing allows it to set up on Pokemon such as Blissey, who can't Toxic it, and then hinder revenge killing attempts by resisting all forms of -ate and Extremespeed. Clear Body also has some niche use pre-Mega preventing Intimidate shenanigans.
EDIT:
I'll post the Arceus-Fire set (the Klinklang set should be pretty obvious lol, just generic NU Klinklang)
Arceus-Fire @ Flame Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe (outspeeds Adamant Alatarianite Lucario, aka best Lucario set imo)
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Judgment
- Earth Power / Filler
Arceus-Fire for B- Rank
With good 120/120/120 bulk and a typing that resists 2 -ates, Arceus Fire is in general a reasonably good wall in Mix and Mega. Being one of the few mons to actually be able to defeat Lucario, as well as being able to switch in on a predicted resisted -atespeed before burning the -atespeeder with Will-O-Wisp gives it a solid niche in Mix and Mega. It also has reliable recovery in Recover (lol) and a powerful Fire-type Judgement. It also has a boatload of options for the 4th moveslot, including Earth Power, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, Ice Beam, Dark Pulse, Flash Cannon, Focus Blast, Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Spacial Rend, and Surf for coverage, or Stealth Rock, Tailwind, Roar, and double screens for support. I personally use Earth Power to bop Victini. It does require good hazard support, as some of these attacks become 2HKOs even after burns if it has to come in on Stealth Rock, which is why I just chose to give it B- Rank, as it is a nice -ate check that has some offensive pressure.
252+ Atk Altarianite Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Fire: 153-181 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Red Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Fire: 100-118 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- 24.5% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Aerodactylite Tough Claws Weavile Night Slash vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Fire: 109-129 (24.6 - 29.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Fire: 204-243 (46 - 54.8%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Pinsirite Metagross Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Fire: 182-216 (41 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Red Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Fire: 100-118 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- 24.5% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Aerodactylite Tough Claws Weavile Night Slash vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Fire: 109-129 (24.6 - 29.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Fire: 204-243 (46 - 54.8%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Pinsirite Metagross Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Fire: 182-216 (41 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Klinklang for C Rank
This is a mon that was overlooked when creating the rankings, but is a pretty neat mon. With Scizorite equipped, it gains 60/120/155/80/105/100 stats, which is really good. 60/155/105 bulk is pretty good and allows it to tank hits and set up with Shift Gear. It can then sweep with Technician Gear Grind, which is basically a drawbackless 150 BP STAB attack. Its pure steel typing allows it to set up on Pokemon such as Blissey, who can't Toxic it, and then hinder revenge killing attempts by resisting all forms of -ate and Extremespeed. Clear Body also has some niche use pre-Mega preventing Intimidate shenanigans.
EDIT:
I'll post the Arceus-Fire set (the Klinklang set should be pretty obvious lol, just generic NU Klinklang)
Arceus-Fire @ Flame Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe (outspeeds Adamant Alatarianite Lucario, aka best Lucario set imo)
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Judgment
- Earth Power / Filler
Last edited:
tysequaine
80% sexy, 20% disgusting
It's officially being suspected though, which says something about how effective it is. In the Viability Rankings you posted on the last page, Lucario is in S while Zygarde is in A+. Two posts above you said that the Viability Rankings indicate how broken Zygarde is, yet it's still under Lucario. The common denominator between all of these is -atespeed. You've also said in previous pages, while Dragonite was being suspected, that an -atespeed clause is the way to go.
It feels like ever since Dragonite started being suspected people have just been tiptoeing around the issue that is -atespeed. Not its abusers, they're being attacked because of how exploitable the playstyle is in a metagame that simply isn't equipped to deal with such an onslaught of powerful priority as well as the coverage that these mons are able to carry. I'm just not sure why it's not being more heavily considered.
It feels like ever since Dragonite started being suspected people have just been tiptoeing around the issue that is -atespeed. Not its abusers, they're being attacked because of how exploitable the playstyle is in a metagame that simply isn't equipped to deal with such an onslaught of powerful priority as well as the coverage that these mons are able to carry. I'm just not sure why it's not being more heavily considered.
I don't think Lucario and Zygarde are the problem. The problem is Altarianite and Pinsirite. These add STAB to the Extreme Speed, which make Arcanine, Dragonite, Entei, Lucario and Zygarde very threatening. These two items should be banned, in my opinion.
No one knows why it is being suspected though. Basically, ghoul king thought it should be and decided to enact a suspect, which he totally can, it's his OM, but the rest of the council doesn't think it even deserves a suspect. Atespeed freaked everyone out at first, but gradually people have realized that it is far easier to check than it seemed; it was just dragonite that was out of hand. Lucario is totally manageable, and honestly, even zygarde is, until you put it in the hands of a player who knows how to play it. Lol. Seriously though, until you fight a decent player using zygarde, it's brokenness seems exaggerated, as many overestimate the power of the Atespeed and try to use it to sweep you early to mid-game, which doesn't work. Lucario honestly is probably the worst of the S-rank threats.
The thing is, Lucario isn't a problem at all, w/ any of the stones. Neither are any of them, except zygarde.
Where's Excadrill? He's at least A / A-. Best Spinner in the damn tier. Abusing stones like, Grossite, Pinsirite, Lucarionite etc. He should be ranked too imoMix-and-Mega Viability Rankings!!!!1
That's right, we're doing this again.
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are at the top of mix and mega's metagame. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits. These Pokemon are here as top threats and potential Bans due to using multiple megastones easily or just one very well.
S Rank
Mew (Ampharosite, Lopunnite, Pidgeotite, Diancite)
Terrakion (Lucarionite, Diancite, Pinsirite, Lopunnite)
Primal Groudon (Red orb)
Lucario (Altarianite, Pinsirite)
A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the Mix-and-Mega metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws thatleast Aeasily be overlooked when compared to their positive traits.
A+ Rank
Victini (Red Orb, Cameruptite, Pidgeotite)
Blissey (Sablenite, Slowbronite)
Thundurus (Manectite, Pideotite, Altarianite)
Archeops (Aerodactylite, Charizardite X, Pinsirite, Salamencite, Lucarionite)
Gengar (Gengarite, Absolite, Manectite, Diancite, Pidgeotite)
Landorus-T (Lopunnite, Mewtwonite X, Altarianite, Salamencite)
Manaphy (Sceptilite, Absolite)
Zygarde (Altarianite, Pinsirite)
Arceus-Normal
A Rank:
Keldeo (Lucarionite, Blue Orb, Pidgeotite, Absolite, Manectite)
Heatran (Latiasite, Absolite, Pidgeotite, Red Orb, Altarianite, Cameruptite)
Entei (Pinsirite, Altarianite, Aerodactylite, Red Orb)
Arcanine (Salamencite, Altarianite, Banettite, Pinsirite, Red orb)
Gyarados (Salamencite, Pinsirite, Charizardite X, Blue Orb, Aggronite)
Weavile (Glalitite, Aerodactylite)
Metagross (Pinsirite, Aerodactylite, Diancite)
Kyogre
A- Rank:
Mamoswine (Lucarionite, Glalitite)
Diggersby (Medichamite)
Ferrothorn (Blue Orb)
Kyurem (Glalitite, Diancite, Aggronite, Absolite, Sablenite, Camerupite, Pinsirite)
Latios(Altarianite, Sceptilite, Manectite, Absolite, Lucarionite, SoulDew)
Noivern (Gardevoirite, Pidgeotite, Salamencite)
Suicune (Aggronite, Slowbronite, Sceptilite, Blue Orb)
Hippowdon (Red Orb, Sablenite, Slowbronite)
Zapdos (Manectite, Pidgeotite, Sablenite, Venusaurite)
Skarmory (Blue Orb, Venusaurite)
Xerneas
B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the Mix-and-Mega metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.
B+ Rank
Blaziken (Blazikenite)
Tornadus (Pidgeotite)
Tyranitar (Sharpedonite, Steelixite, Garchompite, Diancite, Pinsirite, Salamencite)
Staraptor (Lopunnite, Pinsirite, Mewtwonite X, Aerodactylite)
Snorlax (Banettite, Metagrossite, Altarianite, Salamencite)
Cobalion (Aerodactylite, Lucarionite, Galladite)
Garchomp (Gyaradosite, Diancite, Banettite, Scizorite)
Giratina (A)
Togekiss (Gardevoirite, Aggronite)
Aegislash
Slowking (Sceptilite, Slowbronite)
Slowbro (Slowbronite, Aggronite, Sceptilite)
Mewtwo (Mewtwonite X, Mewtwonite Y)
Gourgeist-Super (Aggronite)
Jirachi (Metagrossite, Sceptilite, Ampharosite, Diancite, Manectite, Absolite)
Ho-Oh
B Rank
Kangaskhan (Kangaskhanite)
Mienshao (Lopunny, Altarianite, Pinsirite, Aerodactylite)
Porygon-Z (Diancite, Altarianite, Pidgeotite, Absolite, Manectite)
Latias (Soul Dew)
Azumarill (Mawilite, Medichamite)
Rypherior (Heracronite)
Infernape (Banettite, Diancite)
Azelf (Red Orb)
Scizor (Blue Orb)
Breloom (Banettite)
Lugia
Volcarona (Red Orb, Sablenite)
Vaporeon (Aggronite, Sceptilite, Sablenite)
Meloetta (Slowbronite, Lopunnite, Manectite)
Yveltal
Genesect
Deoxys Attack
Arceus Ghost
B- Rank
Roserade (Red Orb, Scizorite, Pidgeotite)
Flygon (Pinsirite, Altarianite)
Giratina (O)
Salamence (Salamencite, Pinsirite)
Alakazam (Pidgeotite, Absolite, Manectite)
Bisharp (Metagrossite, Lucarionite)
Haxorus (Gyaradosite, Metagrossite, Aerodactylite)
Shaymin-Sky
Darkrai
Rayquaza
Krookodile (Blue Orb, Altarianite, Diancite)
Milotic (Sceptilite)
Heliolisk (Sceptilite, Manectite, Blue Orb)
Kyurem-Black
Kyurem-White
Deoxys Speed
C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the Mix-and-Mega metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon. These Pokemon exert a below average presence in the current metagame.
C Rank
Hydreigon (Blastoisinite, Manectite, Gardevoirite)
Gorebyss (Banettite)
Chandelure (Red Orb, Cameruptite)
Goodra (Ampharosite, Gardevoirite)
Dialga
Palkia
Dragonite
Rotom-Wash (Manectite)
Reshiram
Zekrom
Darmanitan (Diancite, Pinsirite, Altarianite)
Deoxys Defense
D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the Mix-and-Mega metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.
D Rank
Shaymin (Lucarionite, Manectite)
Reuniclus (Cameruptite)
Drifblim (Banettite)
Diancie (Altarianite, Diancite)
Cresselia
Greninja
Meganium (Sablenite, Audinite)
Deoxys Normal
Arceus Steel
''CONCLUSION REACHED'' POKEMON: Pokemon in this list have reached a conclusive ideal ranking, so unless the metagame changes towards them or there is something about them that hasn't been said, discussion about them is disallowed.
BLACKLISTED POKEMON: Pokemon that are not only unviable in Mix-and-Mega, but also make the thread shitty whenever they are brought up because most people that argue about them getting ranked are inexperienced players using bad arguments.
- None
Rules:
- Dewgong
- Post Intelligently. Your argument should consist of the pokemon's effectiveness relative to the tier's threats, and how it fits into a certain ranking.
- NO flaming over rankings. OM has had an issue before with some arguments getting a little heated, but I will ask a moderator to delete any post containing an argument that is remotely insulting.
- Usage/how common something is should not be used in your argument. Viability rankings isn't what mons are the most used, its what's the most effective.
- Eevee General is beautiful. This is an undisputed fact.
Notes
- Thanks to Dr. Phd. BJ, AllJokesAside, Ransei, SpartanMalice, InfernapeTropius11 for helping me do the rankings!
- All ranks are up for debate atm. Nominate a mon if it is not listed, or nominate movements.
- Any and all nominations can be rejected for any reason if there is consensus it is a bad nomination.
- If you nominate a new mon, be sure to include ALL stones it can viably use, unless some stones are very niche in comparison to their ranking.
- Updates may be slow, please be patient; I will update this in bulk.
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Zygarde is in A+ because its harder to set up and requires more support, in addition to having common defensive counters. With any support and a little chip damage on a few mons, it absolutely destroys offensive teams. Lucario is in general more effective, despite being easier to check. Does that make sense?
-ate in general is not the problem, in fact, the limitation on the meta in a way similar to BH actually holds a lot of things together. Without espeed, how do we stop sweepers like gyarados that just intimidate on something and set up? We don't. And there is no opportunity cost in using a mon like that if espeed doesn't exist, which literally, the opportunity cost restricting offense is the ONLY reason stall is viable in this metagame, considering it lacks unaware.
Good call, I will add it at the next update. I'm thinking B+ though, because while its good, it lacks the speed and bulk at times. it wants to check pixilate/aerilate but it can't. It's a good wallbreaker and decent spinner, but I don't see it on par with an A rank. Any thoughts?
Priority is both a blessing and a curse for the meta right now. No matter how much you hate it, it balances the tier. Most of the mons that get Extreme Speed are checked/countered by Primal-Groudon, Blue Orb Skarmory, and others. The mons aren't uncheckable, but they can be a pain to handle. And like xJownage said, it keeps the tier together, and stops set-up sweepers. Without them, it becomes a game of speed or who can outstall. While priority can be a pain to deal with, especially -ate spam, I think it isn't close to a ban. Something like an -ate clause, like in BH, can solve the solution. Banning -ate as a whole would make set up spam more viable, and stuff like Manaphy would just sweep teams that lack a counter. This would basically screw the metagame up. Some of the -ate users might be suspected (mainly Lucario and Zygarde), but by no means is it as broken as people say it is. A bigger issue in the tier is Pidgeotite imo. Giving some mons, like gengar, that 20+ speed can make them a really hard poke to check/counter. On top of that, it makes all of those moves that are inaccurate for a reason always hit. The deadliest reason, is it gives 65+ Special Attack. This boost can change a 3HKO, into a 2HKO, and a 2HKO, into an OHKO. I think this stone should at least be suspected, seeing how it makes stupid things like mew, rely on hax/probability chance with moves like Zap Cannon and Dynamic Punch.
thesecondbest
Just Kidding I'm First
completely agree with the last sentence, zap cannon is a better twave and dpunch a better swagger. help
I don't think pidgeotite is broken, or rather, uncompetitive, however, I do agree that mew with it is. It's just stupid means of basically haxing the opponents to death, and it's annoying AF. It's not that different than evasion moves, imo. Gengar I would say is just straight up broken if magic bounce weren't so omnipresent, but as is, I'd say it is very good, but not broken. I think that mew should be banned from pidgeotite, as it is totally viable, and competitive, with basically any of the other stones. But no guard [insert status condition] is just stupid. And it gets freaking zap cannon over Twave. That's just stupid. Not broken- uncompetitive is much more accurate.
Rhyperior's listing only with Heracronite makes me sad. I won't dispute that it shouldn't be above B-rank; it's still got no recovery and it is very slow, but the Pinsirite set I mentioned in post #278 seemed better to me. Pinsirite goes a very long way to remedying Rhyperior's typing: six weaknesses with two doubled dropping to two weaknesses with one doubled. And Ground/Flying hits damn near everything at least neutrally, as I said there. Plus, burn status cripples a Heracronite-Rhyperior while it would sort of *help* that Pinsirite-Rhyperior set I mentioned because it would make Aerilate'd Facades stronger.
$0.02
$0.02
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
With all this -atespeed problems, and knowing that the two potential ban worthy mons are broken because of this. I believe we should restrict the player to one -ate stone per team like I mentioned earlier. Then see how the meta develops.
Also haven't been here in a while, but in the viability rankings it says Gengarite Gengar, is Shadow Tag unbanned?
Also haven't been here in a while, but in the viability rankings it says Gengarite Gengar, is Shadow Tag unbanned?
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
fixed. Thanks for pointing that out.
I really don't think -ate clause solves anything. Lucario isn't broken, Zygarde is extremely overcentralizing to the point of being broken (seriously, the portion of this tier that resists fairy is really, REALLY small), and the rest are centralizing but not the the point of brokenness. The only one I can see us banning is Zygarde.
I do agree with Pidgeotite Mew being uncompetitive and uncounterable. I would love to keep no guard in the tier - its a great tool. Mew is broken with pidgeotite, however.
xJownage, I actually agree w/ excadrill to at least a-. It is easily the best spinner in the meta, as it demolishes opposing walls as well and beats most SR layers 1v1 anyways and takes minimal damage from rocks as well. 110 speed isn't going to sweep, but early-game, it is definitely enough to put in work. And it kills things it shouldn't. It's power when backed by lucarionite is absolutely ridiculous. Gengar switches in expecting to spinblock or expecting EQ, just to get straight up ohkoed by iron head (granted, gar isn't exactly the epitome of bulk, but straight up ohkos like that w/ a neutral move at +0 are insane). Few things can outspeed it before they've mega evolved, meaning that it functions incredibly well early on.
That doesn't solve the problem. If anything solves it, it's banning zygarde. Lucario isn't even vaguely broken. I'm not even sure it's S-rank worthy. It puts in work given the situation is just right, but it requires more support than you might think. And limiting it to one doesn't really do a lot; it sounds useful, but oftentimes people don't even send out their back up atespeeder, since one is really enough. And aside from that, limiting it just means that you are more likely to be swept by Atespeed, since you don't have a back up to check it. Idk, it just seems not very useful on paper.
Excadrill is absurdly strong with Lucarionite, as MaestroDeSWAG pointed out. Metagrossite gives exca the speed he needs(base 128 is no joke, especially early in the game). Pinsirite exca I haven't really tried yet. But fought many of em. Ground/Flying coverage ain't so bad :)
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 121-143 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Lol not even adamant. Blue orb variant btw.
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 101-119 (30.2 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock Venusaurite Skarm :/ still not adamant.
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 121-143 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Lol not even adamant. Blue orb variant btw.
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 101-119 (30.2 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock Venusaurite Skarm :/ still not adamant.
Why is Palkia/Reshiram ranked C and not D?
Palkia is hardwalled by the TOGEKISS, the blobs, Hippowdown and plethora of mons. Resihiram also struggles with both being outclassed by stuff like Azelf and having a hard time versus Blue orb mons
Palkia is hardwalled by the TOGEKISS, the blobs, Hippowdown and plethora of mons. Resihiram also struggles with both being outclassed by stuff like Azelf and having a hard time versus Blue orb mons
I'm not a Ubers player, so I don't have a good feel for what Reshiram can and can't do.
But it's got its own version of mold breaker, making it hard to switch into with a willo-o-wisp + toxic set. Usually you'd have to run a mold breaker stone with such a set, but be largely unable to use the stats it provies since you're running mostly status moves. (Gyaradosite and Ampharosite are rather offensive stones, stat-wise.)
I've been looking at it because of that mold breaker + will-o-wisp combination; only (Steel, Fire)-types switch in on that, and those probably won't take its fire moves too well except for pre-evo tran. (edit: it gets earth power, but you wouldn't wanna be hard walled by levi tran I think.)
It also has a 4x fire resistance and roost, which might make it good against victini?
But it's got its own version of mold breaker, making it hard to switch into with a willo-o-wisp + toxic set. Usually you'd have to run a mold breaker stone with such a set, but be largely unable to use the stats it provies since you're running mostly status moves. (Gyaradosite and Ampharosite are rather offensive stones, stat-wise.)
I've been looking at it because of that mold breaker + will-o-wisp combination; only (Steel, Fire)-types switch in on that, and those probably won't take its fire moves too well except for pre-evo tran. (edit: it gets earth power, but you wouldn't wanna be hard walled by levi tran I think.)
It also has a 4x fire resistance and roost, which might make it good against victini?
But levitran doesn't even wall it thanks to turboblaze. It's seems like a decent wallbreaker, as its typing is super hard to wall and it's got a decent movepool to back it up. Idk, I don't have much experience w/ it, but from my understanding, it's pretty mediocre overall. if your looking for a dragon/fire wallbreaker, red orb mence is probs better overall, but that uses your red orb, so reshiram can be a decent substitute.
Ah, thanks for pointing that out. This means Toxic / Will-o-Wisp / Earth Power / Roost can hit every pokémon in the game with something it cares a lot about.
The point was really to use mold breaker status, since magic bounce otherwise provides a ton of free switch ins.
The ubers metagame is special in there is very few actually viable pokemon, and by few I mean in comparison to OU and whatnot. It's a pool of 30 mons that are viable, as mons like Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon centralise the metagame around them whilst Kyogre outclassing most water types and Groudon outclassing fire and ground types, special and physical alike. These mons are so good that their mere presence just makes you say "why would I ever use a mon like Charizard? It's outclassed by Primal Groudon, a mon that has zero opportunity cost.
With Reshiram and Palkia packing water/dragon/fire coverage for stabs they're both easily handled. Reshiram can't spam Dragon in fear of Xerneas and it can't spam fire in fear of letting Kyogre/Groudon switch in, giving the Primals a switch in is crucial. In Ubers Palkia's been nominated for D and Reshiram is D right now. But this is only a metagame with Groudon and Kyogre, pokemon that aren't counters per say as Draco meteor can easily 2HKO Groudon and Outrage threatening Kyogre but giving Groudon or Kyogre a switch in is still enough to knock them down to D.
But this is just Ubers, in Mix and Mega we have harder counters. We have Scizor with Blue orb, Skarmory with Blue orb, Blissey with Sablenite/Slowbronite, we have Roserade with Red orb, Azumarill with Mawilite and we still have both the Primals. You really want to use a pokemon that gives Azumarill a pokemon with 524 attack a free switch in? I'd rather not.
I had a chat with Ghoul king over pm discussing mew, how would you guys feel about banning Zap cannon/Inferno & Dynamic punch? They're only used in an uncompetitive way in conjunction with No Guard. In standard play these aren't bad as both abusers have horrendous speed and meh stats but in Mix and Mega you have 65+ boost in Special attack with a 120 electric move with a 100% chance to paralyze. You have these moves that are literally impossible to switch in bar immunity, as you're going to be burned/paralyzed/confused. Essentially, scald on steroids.
Doesn't the mix between Primal Groudon and Arceus-Steel outclass Arceus-Fire? It's D rank in Ubers and this metagame isn't exactly favourable to itAlrighty, before I make my massive (maybe) Pidgeotite analysis post, I thought I'd make a couple nominations that I forgot about (yes I forgot about a couple of Pokemon despite working on the VR for 5 hours straight x_x)
Arceus-Fire for B- Rank
With good 120/120/120 bulk and a typing that resists 2 -ates, Arceus Fire is in general a reasonably good wall in Mix and Mega. Being one of the few mons to actually be able to defeat Lucario, as well as being able to switch in on a predicted resisted -atespeed before burning the -atespeeder with Will-O-Wisp gives it a solid niche in Mix and Mega. It also has reliable recovery in Recover (lol) and a powerful Fire-type Judgement. It also has a boatload of options for the 4th moveslot, including Earth Power, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, Ice Beam, Dark Pulse, Flash Cannon, Focus Blast, Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Spacial Rend, and Surf for coverage, or Stealth Rock, Tailwind, Roar, and double screens for support. I personally use Earth Power to bop Victini. It does require good hazard support, as some of these attacks become 2HKOs even after burns if it has to come in on Stealth Rock, which is why I just chose to give it B- Rank, as it is a nice -ate check that has some offensive pressure.
252+ Atk Altarianite Lucario Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Fire: 153-181 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Red Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Fire: 100-118 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- 24.5% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Aerodactylite Tough Claws Weavile Night Slash vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Fire: 109-129 (24.6 - 29.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Fire: 204-243 (46 - 54.8%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Pinsirite Metagross Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Arceus-Fire: 182-216 (41 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Klinklang for C Rank
This is a mon that was overlooked when creating the rankings, but is a pretty neat mon. With Scizorite equipped, it gains 60/120/155/80/105/100 stats, which is really good. 60/155/105 bulk is pretty good and allows it to tank hits and set up with Shift Gear. It can then sweep with Technician Gear Grind, which is basically a drawbackless 150 BP STAB attack. Its pure steel typing allows it to set up on Pokemon such as Blissey, who can't Toxic it, and then hinder revenge killing attempts by resisting all forms of -ate and Extremespeed. Clear Body also has some niche use pre-Mega preventing Intimidate shenanigans.
EDIT:
I'll post the Arceus-Fire set (the Klinklang set should be pretty obvious lol, just generic NU Klinklang)
Arceus-Fire @ Flame Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe (outspeeds Adamant Alatarianite Lucario, aka best Lucario set imo)
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Judgment
- Earth Power / Filler
+2 252 Atk Adaptability Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 113-134 (33.8 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Jolly Adaptability at +2
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 109-129 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 97.4% chance to 3HKO Adamant Life Orb at +2
Why would I use Excadrill with Lucarionite when I could use regular Excadrill thats far faster?
How is regular Excadrill faster? and what exactly are you proving with these calcs? Lucaronite Still out damage your Adamant SD LO boosted Iron head......
EDIT: lemme rephrase that. How the hell is regular exca FAR faster? Completely lost here.....hope you're not talking about CS.
Pretty sure he means regular Exca /in sand/.