Ladder ORAS Monotype Discussion

[SubMindRaikou]

Ok so a lot of people have started talking about a mega sableye ban. Should it be banned? y/n
So for those of you who dont know, mega sableye is insanely good as a mega, and some say with the support it gets from dark its too op.
It has prankster pre mega, magic bounce post mega, and really good defensive typing and stats.
Common moves include:
knock off, will o wisp, snarl, calm mind, recover, toxic, confuse ray, foul play, dark pulse, shadow ball, taunt and even fake out.
So to start a list I would like to put in the type I feel like I know the most, steel.

Steel:
Personally I use Moonblast CM or Scarf Jirachi and hope for the best, but Mega Sab is really a pain to fight with.
Best case scenario is 252 SpA Jirachi Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 154-182 (50.6 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, but that doesnt take into account that the pre mega gets prankster and if its not Jirachi vs MSab when it comes out then it gets a free turn, so mostly it looks like this 252 SpA Jirachi Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 102-122 (33.5 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO and by then im hoping for a crit.
Another noobish way is Mold Breaker Excadrill since Excadrill Toxic vs. Mega Sableye: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- lol they switched out or used heal bell. Yeah.
So I went to Monotype the chat room, and I got the suggestions of LumSharp, Heatran and SpecsZone, and its my duty to show how they dont really work.
For Lum Berry Bisharp its +2 252 Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 157-186 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO worst case scenario with +2 252 Atk burned Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 78-93 (25.6 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO the next turn, assuming no hax since "hax makes this pokemon not op" isnt that good of a reason for no ban. Next up comes Heatran, 252 SpA Flash Fire Heatran Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Mega Sableye: 159-187 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage which actually works. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Mega Sableye: 196-232 (64.4 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and Magnezone also works.

tl;dr steel can beat MSab 1v1 depending on the set with Jirachi moonblast, specs Magnezone, Lum berry Bisharp, and Heatran being popular choices for beating MSab.

However this is assuming MSab doesnt have any teammates, as certain moves like Heatrans lava plume might be easily switched into in dark, and Bisharp would be crippled the rest of the match unless hax and wow miss.

 

[Physical Tyranitar]

Ok so a lot of people have started talking about a mega sableye ban. Should it be banned? y/n
So for those of you who dont know, mega sableye is insanely good as a mega, and some say with the support it gets from dark its too op.
It has prankster pre mega, magic bounce post mega, and really good defensive typing and stats.
Common moves include:
knock off, will o wisp, snarl, calm mind, recover, toxic, confuse ray, foul play, dark pulse, shadow ball, taunt and even fake out.
So to start a list I would like to put in the type I feel like I know the most, steel.

Steel:
Personally I use Moonblast CM or Scarf Jirachi and hope for the best, but Mega Sab is really a pain to fight with.
Best case scenario is 252 SpA Jirachi Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 154-182 (50.6 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, but that doesnt take into account that the pre mega gets prankster and if its not Jirachi vs MSab when it comes out then it gets a free turn, so mostly it looks like this 252 SpA Jirachi Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 102-122 (33.5 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO and by then im hoping for a crit.
Another noobish way is Mold Breaker Excadrill since Excadrill Toxic vs. Mega Sableye: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- lol they switched out or used heal bell. Yeah.
So I went to Monotype the chat room, and I got the suggestions of LumSharp, Heatran and SpecsZone, and its my duty to show how they dont really work.
For Lum Berry Bisharp its +2 252 Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 157-186 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO worst case scenario with +2 252 Atk burned Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 78-93 (25.6 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO the next turn, assuming no hax since "hax makes this pokemon not op" isnt that good of a reason for no ban. Next up comes Heatran, 252 SpA Flash Fire Heatran Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Mega Sableye: 159-187 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage which actually works. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Mega Sableye: 196-232 (64.4 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and Magnezone also works.

tl;dr steel can beat MSab 1v1 depending on the set with Jirachi moonblast, specs Magnezone, Lum berry Bisharp, and Heatran being popular choices for beating MSab.

However this is assuming MSab doesnt have any teammates, as certain moves like Heatrans lava plume might be easily switched into in dark, and Bisharp would be crippled the rest of the match unless hax and wow miss.

Mega sableye shouldn't be banned, Dark would lose a lot of ground against Fighting and Bug Teams.

 

[DoW]

Ok so a lot of people have started talking about a mega sableye ban. Should it be banned? y/n
So for those of you who dont know, mega sableye is insanely good as a mega, and some say with the support it gets from dark its too op.
It has prankster pre mega, magic bounce post mega, and really good defensive typing and stats.
Common moves include:
knock off, will o wisp, snarl, calm mind, recover, toxic, confuse ray, foul play, dark pulse, shadow ball, taunt and even fake out.
So to start a list I would like to put in the type I feel like I know the most, steel.

Steel:
Personally I use Moonblast CM or Scarf Jirachi and hope for the best, but Mega Sab is really a pain to fight with.
Best case scenario is 252 SpA Jirachi Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 154-182 (50.6 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, but that doesnt take into account that the pre mega gets prankster and if its not Jirachi vs MSab when it comes out then it gets a free turn, so mostly it looks like this 252 SpA Jirachi Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 102-122 (33.5 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO and by then im hoping for a crit.
Another noobish way is Mold Breaker Excadrill since Excadrill Toxic vs. Mega Sableye: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- lol they switched out or used heal bell. Yeah.
So I went to Monotype the chat room, and I got the suggestions of LumSharp, Heatran and SpecsZone, and its my duty to show how they dont really work.
For Lum Berry Bisharp its +2 252 Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 157-186 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO worst case scenario with +2 252 Atk burned Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 78-93 (25.6 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO the next turn, assuming no hax since "hax makes this pokemon not op" isnt that good of a reason for no ban. Next up comes Heatran, 252 SpA Flash Fire Heatran Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Mega Sableye: 159-187 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage which actually works. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Mega Sableye: 196-232 (64.4 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and Magnezone also works.

tl;dr steel can beat MSab 1v1 depending on the set with Jirachi moonblast, specs Magnezone, Lum berry Bisharp, and Heatran being popular choices for beating MSab.

However this is assuming MSab doesnt have any teammates, as certain moves like Heatrans lava plume might be easily switched into in dark, and Bisharp would be crippled the rest of the match unless hax and wow miss.

Mega Sableye's difficult to beat at times, sure, but it can be beaten. Firstly, almost any strong fire-type physical attacker will beat it due to immunity to burn and not being worried about Calm Mind boosts. Secondly, most special wallbreakers fare fairly well against it, especially if you don't let it set up too many times for free: 252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye in Sun: 279-328 (91.7 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
If you're really struggling to beat it then a sub or lum physical setup sweeper will generally be able to muscle past it, or running fairy coverage gives another option to potentially beat it.

If you want Mega Sableye banned, the thing to do is to compile a list of types that cannot beat it without drastic changes to their teams and work from there. I'm not convinced that it's unbeatable enough to need a ban, however.

 

[scpinion]

For Lum Berry Bisharp its +2 252 Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 157-186 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO worst case scenario with +2 252 Atk burned Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 78-93 (25.6 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO the next turn, assuming no hax since "hax makes this pokemon not op" isnt that good of a reason for no ban.

This is why you run Adamant on Lum Bish. ;)

 

[Physical Tyranitar]

If you want Mega Sableye banned, the thing to do is to compile a list of types that cannot beat it without drastic changes to their teams and work from there. I'm not convinced that it's unbeatable enough to need a ban, however.

Okay, okay, Monotype Room, here are my thoughts on this.

Mega Sableye is one of the most influental Pokemon in Monotype Dark. It is one of the only Mons on Dark that scare Fighting Types half-to-death, and once it is fully setup, little can be done to stop it. It prolongs its existence by using Will'O'Wisp on Physical Attackers, effectively weakening them to the point of them not being able to penetrate Mega Sableye's usable 50/125 physical bulk, so he is free to setup on them and sweep, while healing off any damage with Recover. As Articuno I is apparently implying here, most teams need a bit of preparation to take on Mega Sableye, but only a little bit is needed to not have a problem with it anymore. Most wallbreakers such as Keldeo, Latios, and Black Kyurem can deal massive damage to Sableye, even after a Calm Mind Boost, effectively 2HKOing it. On Monotype Psychic, Mega Gardevoir can finish it off with Hyper Voice while living a +3 Dark Pulse. Mega Sableye really crumbles to wall breakers that hit very hard, and most special-attacking Fairy types don't have a problem with it. Even Monotype Ghost can use their own Mega Sableye against it to at least stall it out in attempts to either kill it or weaken it enough so that the type's premier sweeper (Gengar) can finish it off.

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Sableye: 159-187 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Sableye: 270-320 (88.8 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Sableye: 162-192 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

All types that I can think of have the tools to effectively beat Sableye if they are prepared, so I would say that wallbreakers are a huge pain to Mega Sableye. As long as you don't let it set up on you, it is very possible to beat it early on before it becomes invincible. However, if it gets 3+ Calm Mind boosts it may become progressively harder to wallbreak, but even things like Mega Gyara's Mold Breaker Taunt utterly shut it down.

This is why you run Adamant on Lum Bish. ;)

I know you were joking, but Adamant Lum Berry Bisharp isn't a very reliable answer to it.

 

[Josh]

I wouldn't say fighting has the tools to beat Mega Sableye. It can't do anything to it besides get lucky. However every other type can beat it and it 6-0ing one type with minimal support isn't grounds for a ban, and I don't think it is banworthy. It would also really nerf dark and therefore make psychic even better. Plus, I don't think Ghost could well without it.

EDIT: Megazard proved me wrong with his innovative set of Poison Heal Swords Dance Breloom. Fighting can do it folks!

 

[Physical Tyranitar]

I wouldn't say fighting has the tools to beat Mega Sableye. It can't do anything to it besides get lucky. However every other type can beat it and it 6-0ing one type with minimal support isn't grounds for a ban, and I don't think it is banworthy. It would also really nerf dark and therefore make psychic even better.

EDIT: Megazard proved me wrong with his innovative set of Poison Heal Swords Dance Breloom. Fighting can do it folks!

Yep, kinda proved my point. All types have a way of beating Mega Sableye one way or another, so I believe that there are no grounds for a ban for Mega Sableye. In addition, both types that are able to legally use Mega Sableye really need its services. Dark would be much more prone to being swept by Bug & Psychic, and Ghost would now have no usable neutrality to Dark.

 

[DoW]

I wouldn't say fighting has the tools to beat Mega Sableye. It can't do anything to it besides get lucky. However every other type can beat it and it 6-0ing one type with minimal support isn't grounds for a ban, and I don't think it is banworthy. It would also really nerf dark and therefore make psychic even better.

EDIT: Megazard proved me wrong with his innovative set of Poison Heal Swords Dance Breloom. Fighting can do it folks!

Due to the resistance to dark, especially foul play, and many of the users having justified, any sub/sd pokemon such as Terrakion or Cobalion will be able to do well against Mega Sab so long as you don't bring it in on WoW. Sub/CM Keldeo is extremely popular on Fighting, and Infernape has its uses as well. Some degree of preparation is needed to beat m-sab, perhaps, but I wouldn't say by any means that fighitng doesn't have the tools to beat Mega Sableye.

 

[Physical Tyranitar]

Due to the resistance to dark, especially foul play, and many of the users having justified, any sub/sd pokemon such as Terrakion or Cobalion will be able to do well against Mega Sab so long as you don't bring it in on WoW. Sub/CM Keldeo is extremely popular on Fighting, and Infernape has its uses as well. Some degree of preparation is needed to beat m-sab, perhaps, but I wouldn't say by any means that fighitng doesn't have the tools to beat Mega Sableye.

I would agree with that for the most part, but they have many movesets that fare well against it. As you have said, Cobalion and Terrakion do well as they can pop a Sub and setup. But as Joshz has mentioned, Poison Heal Breloom can setup on Mega Sableye, and lives a +2 Dark Pulse. Here are some calcs:
+2 0 SpA Mega Sableye Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 114-134 (43.6 - 51.3%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sableye: 306-360 (126.9 - 149.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Fighting doesn't have any stable means of taking care of Mega Sableye, so it has no tools against it, as nothing can switch into WoW barring Infernape (who will be mortally wounded by boosted Dark Pulses), but some movesets do work against it. If your Fighting Type is burned, it's over, but if you can avoid being hit by Will'O'Wisp, Mega Sableye's slightly underwhelming defenses mean you can make quick work of it. Specs Keldeo can 2HKO a +1 Mega Sab but cannot do significant damage to a one that is fully setup. Thank you for your time, Articuno I.

 

[DoW]

Poison Heal Breloom

+2 252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sableye: 306-360 (126.9 - 149.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Your point is valid if you consider seed bomb, though I'm not sure how viable poison heal breloom is in the current meta.

But yes, Fighting can beat mega-sableye which is the important thing here.

 

[scpinion]

I wouldn't say fighting has the tools to beat Mega Sableye. It can't do anything to it besides get lucky. However every other type can beat it and it 6-0ing one type with minimal support isn't grounds for a ban, and I don't think it is banworthy. It would also really nerf dark and therefore make psychic even better. Plus, I don't think Ghost could well without it.

EDIT: Megazard proved me wrong with his innovative set of Poison Heal Swords Dance Breloom. Fighting can do it folks!

You don't even need that Breloom, just play SubCM Keldeo well. CM Sab doesn't run Shadow Ball b/c of Normal Monotypes and has a really hard time beating Keldeo w/ Dark Pulse/Snarl. That has been my plan for quite some time and works pretty well. You'll catch an occasional Shadow Ball or Dazzling Gleam set, but those are rare.

Also, I was serious about Adamant Lum Bish being a fairly reliable answer to M-Sab for Steel, especially the Offensive variants. It doesn't guarantee you kill it, but if you play the exchange well then m-Sab is easily rk'd or left where it cannot switch into attacks.

 

[TheAce22]

I wouldn't say fighting has the tools to beat Mega Sableye. It can't do anything to it besides get lucky. However every other type can beat it and it 6-0ing one type with minimal support isn't grounds for a ban, and I don't think it is banworthy. It would also really nerf dark and therefore make psychic even better. Plus, I don't think Ghost could well without it.

EDIT: Megazard proved me wrong with his innovative set of Poison Heal Swords Dance Breloom. Fighting can do it folks!

While its not easy to beat theres counters, lol. Just use sub calm mind Keldeo or Specs hydro pump Keldeo works pretty well also. Theres also guys Guts hera

 

[Fractions.]

It's been some time since I posted anything, so here it goes. My thoughts on Sableye.

Sableye is one of the most useful pokemon on Dark teams. Dark being weak to Fighting, Sableye is a natural counter to those physical attackers. As much as this thing is annoying to deal with, it is a valuable asset. The pokemon doesn't need a ban, you just have to know how to get around it. There's plenty of ways to counter it. Some of them being SubCm Keldeo, Poison Heal Breloom, Guts Hera. In short, you just have to play safe, know what you're doing, and slowly make your way around that thing.

Calcs for Guts Hera:

252 Atk Guts Heracross (Burned) Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 177-208 (58.2 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(While Dark Pulse 5HKO's after burn damage)

Why the ban is discussed this much is that some rookie players just think that the pokemon is just too op for the meta. I used to think that myself, when I battled one for the first time. However, as you battle more, you get experience, and learn how to counter it eventually.

tl;dr It doesn't need a ban. Players need to get good.

 

[Dece1t]

Tbh, I think towards the earlier parts of the meta Sableye was not only an annoyance, but it was extremely threatening and usually easy to boost. Months later now up to today I think the metagame has adapted a lot, where people haven't really complained too much about it bc they figured out how to beat it.
tl;dr Don't ban it.

 

[Freeroamer]

I'm kinda neutral on Mega Sableye in general but I want to point out some issues I see with a lot of the arguments being presented, particularly with respect to the sets it runs and checking it. A lot of posts here assume 100% that the Sableye set they're playing against is the CM set but Sableye has the potential to run an equally viable utility set which only adds to it's versatility and makes it harder to deal with. For example Lum Bisharp is an ok check to CM Mega Sableye but will fail miserably vs the utility set thanks to Foul Play existing. You're also assuming that your check gets in unscathed, if Lum Bish gets wisped even by the CM set as it comes in it's ruined, and the Breloom set above can't even lead 1v1 vs Sableye, it has to find an opportunity vs another mon to activate it's Toxic Orb.

However one of the biggest things to consider when playing vs a Sableye is it's longevity and ability to outlast it's checks. A popular way to beat bulkier mons like Sableye is through attrition, be it wearing them down via status or hazards. However this becomes a moot point with Sableye thanks to Magic Bounce, whereas it's checks are constantly being worn down via the same attrition, via Sableye's own status(Wisp), hazards(hf removing vs Sableye/Bish core on Dark especially), Rocky Mandibuzz+Ttar Sand(relevant for a lot of physical attackers that try and break through Sableye) meaning that with little player interaction on the Sableye player's part, it's able to remove the majority of threats to Sableye and then win the game with it. I do find this kinda concerning when I've played with Sableye cos this is definitely relevant against several types that are argued to have checks for Sableye but still lose to it.

 

[Sabella]

Although ill admit i have played less monotype recently i still frequent the ladder now and then and i have to agree with freeroamer. Most of the battles i play right now are with dark because of the balance build that i enjoy very much. I find myself very rarely losing to fighting and bug. It is mainly due to the reasons listed above its extremely easy to chip away at its checks by burns sand and rocky helmet damage then eventually winning late game with it. I have to agree this is a bit concerning. Strong wallbreakers such as guts heracross or balance breakers lile sub cm keldeo do threaten this archetype of team tho. While i do think it is a S rank mon and dark probably being one of the top types im not in favor of a ban bc i think there are answers to it and i think there are still unexplored ways to deal with it.

 

[truedrew]

To comment as objectively as i can on mega sableye, i would like to begin with data because data is king in any argument. (all data is from 1760 ladder as that is the highest levels of play)

1) Sableyes most common items

Items | | Sablenite 77.490% | | Leftovers 22.091%

2)Most Common Spreads

Bold:248/0/252/8/0/0 17.070%
Bold:248/0/196/0/60/4 13.204%
Bold:252/0/196/0/60/0 11.781%

3)[B

Moves commonly used Moves][/B]
Recover 99.845%
Will-O-Wisp 99.821%
Calm Mind 61.721%
Snarl 39.991%
Taunt 21.319%
Knock Off 18.295%
Dark Pulse 15.742%
Confide 13.000%
Foul Play 12.584%

4)Teammates (there are no stats for these but just quoting most relevant mons here)

Mandibuzz
Tyranitar
Hoopa-U
Umbreon?
Crawdaunt?

5) Common Uses of sableye (mega)

>A check to fighting types
>Hazard control (mega)
>Stall Breaker (mega + reg with taunt)
>Hazard Spreader (wisp/rare toxic)
>Late game CM cleaner (mega or non mega both CAN be used)

6) Most relevant sets to watch out for for each individual type (WARNING LONG LIST INBOUND)

Type Match Ups(WIP)

Normal- CM mega sab, taunt + lefties reg sab, Usually rely on mega lopunny being able to revenge kill it/mega audino setting up alongside and dazzling gleam beating it. If mega then offensive pressure with band/orb diggersby also works.

Flying- Mega Sab CM, Taunt + Wisp, Usually can pressure it but with support from it's team mates it can be a pain as it harrases skarm/lando/physical attackers. If really an issue SD gliscor beats it 100%.

Steel- CM Sab, Taunt + Lefties- Can annoy most mons apart from heatran and if it gets burnt by lava plume then it is easier to deal with. Once it has megad then it is easier to take on as lots of offensive pressure is put on it as it lacks +1 recover.

Water- CM Mega Sab,- If it sets up a few CM's then things can be interesting but otherwise with keldeo+scald+azumarill thing should not be too much of an issue as water vs dark is a tough match for dark due to the immense pressure keldeo+azumarill place on dark defensive core.

Bug- not really an issue as the HO nature of bug can overwhelm it easily if it megas, if not then stuff like guts band herracross are good "counters".

Rock- Taunt sableye and mega cm sab- taunt lefties sableye can spread burns and just harass rock if mega aggron is chosen. However if mega diancie is used then this just becomes a tease as moonblast ruins any attempt of any sableye set.

Fire-Not a threat as everything hits way 2 hard for it to be reliable in this match up

Grass- CM mega sab- mega sableye can sweep grass if it has set up a few calm minds because it is immune to status/leech seed so it can set up all over the walls. Best bet is getting a poison with mega venu and over pressuring it with serperior. if really an issue then toxic orb SD breloom is a 100% check. Life orb whimsicott can also be a good check as it has stab moonblast

Fairy- If you lose to this with fairy you deserve to lose always

Ghost- CM Mega Sab/Regular Sab- Ghost is already at a disadvantage vs dark, but mega sab can push it beyond the horizon, the only way ghost can take on a cm sableye is with chandelure and their own mega sab which needs to run dazzling gleam to overcome the opponent.

Psychic- Mega gardevoir is your best bet of overpowering sableye as even at +2 cm it gets 2hkod by Hyper voice. Band victini can also be good vs this

Thus after reviewing the data, i feel that mega sableye is a pokemon who fits the definition of S class and not only does it give ghost much needed hazard control, it allows dark to have an easier time in some matchups. On the other hand it has amazing 6-0 potential on many types as it can set with relative ease, Thus i will urge the community to not force the council into a quickban as the metagame can still develop considering that there was a huge shift in the philosophy and meta game of monotype and with a new generation lurking around i feel that monotype is at a good position right now![/hide]

 

[Physical Tyranitar]

To comment as objectively as i can on mega sableye, i would like to begin with data because data is king in any argument. (all data is from 1760 ladder as that is the highest levels of play)

1) Sableyes most common items

Items | | Sablenite 77.490% | | Leftovers 22.091%

2)Most Common Spreads

Bold:248/0/252/8/0/0 17.070%
Bold:248/0/196/0/60/4 13.204%
Bold:252/0/196/0/60/0 11.781%

3)[B

Moves commonly used Moves][/B]
Recover 99.845%
Will-O-Wisp 99.821%
Calm Mind 61.721%
Snarl 39.991%
Taunt 21.319%
Knock Off 18.295%
Dark Pulse 15.742%
Confide 13.000%
Foul Play 12.584%

4)Teammates (there are no stats for these but just quoting most relevant mons here)

Mandibuzz
Tyranitar
Hoopa-U
Umbreon?
Crawdaunt?

5) Common Uses of sableye (mega)

>A check to fighting types
>Hazard control (mega)
>Stall Breaker (mega + reg with taunt)
>Hazard Spreader (wisp/rare toxic)
>Late game CM cleaner (mega or non mega both CAN be used)

6) Most relevant sets to watch out for for each individual type (WARNING LONG LIST INBOUND)

Type Match Ups(WIP)

Normal- CM mega sab, taunt + lefties reg sab, Usually rely on mega lopunny being able to revenge kill it/mega audino setting up alongside and dazzling gleam beating it. If mega then offensive pressure with band/orb diggersby also works.

Flying- Mega Sab CM, Taunt + Wisp, Usually can pressure it but with support from it's team mates it can be a pain as it harrases skarm/lando/physical attackers. If really an issue SD gliscor beats it 100%.

Steel- CM Sab, Taunt + Lefties- Can annoy most mons apart from heatran and if it gets burnt by lava plume then it is easier to deal with. Once it has megad then it is easier to take on as lots of offensive pressure is put on it as it lacks +1 recover.

Water- CM Mega Sab,- If it sets up a few CM's then things can be interesting but otherwise with keldeo+scald+azumarill thing should not be too much of an issue as water vs dark is a tough match for dark due to the immense pressure keldeo+azumarill place on dark defensive core.

Bug- not really an issue as the HO nature of bug can overwhelm it easily if it megas, if not then stuff like guts band herracross are good "counters".

Rock- Taunt sableye and mega cm sab- taunt lefties sableye can spread burns and just harass rock if mega aggron is chosen. However if mega diancie is used then this just becomes a tease as moonblast ruins any attempt of any sableye set.

Fire-Not a threat as everything hits way 2 hard for it to be reliable in this match up

Grass- CM mega sab- mega sableye can sweep grass if it has set up a few calm minds because it is immune to status/leech seed so it can set up all over the walls. Best bet is getting a poison with mega venu and over pressuring it with serperior. if really an issue then toxic orb SD breloom is a 100% check. Life orb whimsicott can also be a good check as it has stab moonblast

Fairy- If you lose to this with fairy you deserve to lose always

Ghost- CM Mega Sab/Regular Sab- Ghost is already at a disadvantage vs dark, but mega sab can push it beyond the horizon, the only way ghost can take on a cm sableye is with chandelure and their own mega sab which needs to run dazzling gleam to overcome the opponent.

Psychic- Mega gardevoir is your best bet of overpowering sableye as even at +2 cm it gets 2hkod by Hyper voice. Band victini can also be good vs this

Thus after reviewing the data, i feel that mega sableye is a pokemon who fits the definition of S class and not only does it give ghost much needed hazard control, it allows dark to have an easier time in some matchups. On the other hand it has amazing 6-0 potential on many types as it can set with relative ease, Thus i will urge the community to not force the council into a quickban as the metagame can still develop considering that there was a huge shift in the philosophy and meta game of monotype and with a new generation lurking around i feel that monotype is at a good position right now![/hide]

Another thing, Mega Gyarados can switch into everything Mega Sableye tries to use, barring Will'O'Wisp, including a +6 Dark Pulse, and Taunt it, ensuring that Mega Sableye will either be forced out, or it will try to stay in and start attacking, both of in which scenarios Mega Gyarados will win. Mega Gyarados can either use Dragon Dance if Sableye is forced out, or Mega Gyarados can finish Mega Sableye off. Mega Sableye is a powerful force on your Monotype Ghost and Monotype Dark teams, but as proved, every type has a way of defeating Mega Sableye, and Mega Sableye is far from unstoppable. Quick thinking, a little preperation, and good strategy means that you can make quick work of Mega Sableye, just try not to get your team burned. If you can avoid status, you will not have much trouble defeating Sableye.

 

[Bushtush]

Many things can beat Mega Sab, it's just a matter of finding out when to switch those certain mons in. It's all a prediction mindset, and the right plays can ensure you'll win any match. After Physical Tyranitar brang up the topic of Mega Gyarados however,I realized how annoying Dragon Dance setters are in this meta.One DD at the right time can win you the game, prove showing from the Charizard X and Mega Altaria bans. Wanted to see what you guys feel about Dragon Dance mons in the current metagame.

 

[Dece1t]

Many things can beat Mega Sab, it's just a matter of finding out when to switch those certain mons in. It's all a prediction mindset, and the right plays can ensure you'll win any match. After Physical Tyranitar brang up the topic of Mega Gyarados however,I realized how annoying Dragon Dance setters are in this meta.One DD at the right time can win you the game, prove showing from the Charizard X and Mega Altaria bans. Wanted to see what you guys feel about Dragon Dance mons in the current metagame.

Tbh I don't think the problem is dragon dance users, the problem is how east it is for them to set up. For example, if you compared Dragon it to Mega Altaria, you'd probably favor using Altaria because it has great offensive/defensive typing, and fairy alone hits a good chunk of the meta hard. Compared to Dragonite, it typically needs to use the rest of its 3 move slots on attacks so it can hit a broader range of the meta, instead of recovery, so it's easily worn down. That's why Char X and Mega Alt were as good as they were.

 

[scpinion]

The September usage stats are up on the Monotype Website.
The metagame is quite different this go round with Flying coming back to the pack and Ground seeing very little usage, dropping below Fire, Ghost, and Fairy!

Pokemon usage stats and sprite gallery: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/sprite-gallery.html
Type Matchup Table and Imbalanced Matchups: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/matchup-tables.html
Metagame Trends/Type Analyses/Lead Information: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/type-analyses.html (may take longer to load than normal)

As always, make sure to let me know if you need any help understanding something, or if you find any bugs!

 

[SubMindRaikou]

The September usage stats are up on the Monotype Website.
The metagame is quite different this go round with Flying coming back to the pack and Ground seeing very little usage, dropping below Fire, Ghost, and Fairy!

Pokemon usage stats and sprite gallery: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/sprite-gallery.html
Type Matchup Table and Imbalanced Matchups: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/matchup-tables.html
Metagame Trends/Type Analyses/Lead Information: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/type-analyses.html (may take longer to load than normal)

As always, make sure to let me know if you need any help understanding something, or if you find any bugs!

Ew fighting rose to third, dark is kinda low for how good it is imo, steel dropped a bit, and flying is dropped 2 percentages in usage to 10% so not as dominating now (rip people trying to ladder with ice since less flying more fighting)

Oh and dragon dropped below normal and they both remain under 5% usage so maybe electric gets a fair shot at laddering with water being realitively high and flying still kinda being dominant.

Pretty much thinking of maybe going to electric a bit since I think the rest of the matchups should be fairly even like vs dark and vs bug.

Also rock is above ice, no longer the least used types. Lets blame mega scizor since atleast rock has mega aggron and rhyperior and all ice has is walrien. ;)

Would also like to mention that steel looks pretty dominant on paper right now (idk about on ladder except from personal experience and I'm a pretty bad player rof)

According to the matchup charts steel has 14 good matchups, which is amazing since next in line is psychic with only 7, and flying has only 5. Of these good matchups 5 appear in the unbalanced part and they include ice, fairy and rock as no suprise, and also carry grass and normal. Compare this to the other types and they don't have close to that many imbalanced type matchups.

Another thing to note is that all of steels matchups againt the better types are within 5 percentages of 50/50 or slightly in steels favor, with fighting being at a 45% win rate for steel and flying at 49%, and steel apperantly has a very winnable matchup against psychic since steel wins 62% of the time. All of steels bad matchups are also not the most common types, with electric being 36% winrate for steel, ground being 46%, and water being 38%, which is pretty nice (make water drop pls).

Idk maybe I'm trying to hype up steel so laddering with eletric is more fun or something but steel looks pretty amazing on paper and might maybe move up to 3rd again.

 

[Chleg]

I would say that the meta is more balanced than any other meta. Being in the 3-8% range is almost all types with the rise of Flying helping Rock.

Poor Ice though...

While Flying decreased, Fighting has risen up a bit to 3rd with being the best HO type in this meta I would say.

Oh Ground, ground. You have dropped so much by the Smooth Rock ban. It hit you hard mate.

But to my first point, the metagame is extremely balanced right now.

9 types are technically currently balanced by the equilibrium. (Exactly 50%)
(Steel, Flying, Electric, Dark, Dragon, Water, Psychic, Ground and Fighting)

 

[scpinion]

That Ground drop isn't representative of how good the type is imo. 8 turns vs. 5 turns is different, but not "most used type in the metagame to worse than Fire" different.

 

[Dece1t]

The September usage stats are up on the Monotype Website.
The metagame is quite different this go round with Flying coming back to the pack and Ground seeing very little usage, dropping below Fire, Ghost, and Fairy!

Pokemon usage stats and sprite gallery: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/sprite-gallery.html
Type Matchup Table and Imbalanced Matchups: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/matchup-tables.html
Metagame Trends/Type Analyses/Lead Information: http://monotypeps.weebly.com/type-analyses.html (may take longer to load than normal)

As always, make sure to let me know if you need any help understanding something, or if you find any bugs!

As a Ground user, this really concerns me that ground is in the bottom 1/3 and lower than ghost...when it's a lot better. Way to go meta *sarcasm intended*