SPOILERS! Pokemon Sun and Moon Full Game Datamine General Discussion Thread

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Wait, when was Super Training confirmed to be gone? And with nothing replacing it? And horde battles are possibly either gone or much harder to generate?

Super Training brought me back to the series after I just got bored of dealing with normal EV training for all my Pokemon. Honestly really disappointed and suspect this will make me lose interest in these games quickly, especially if we don't even have EV gauges anymore.

I don't understand the logic of getting rid of an important barrier to competitive in IV maxing, but making it MUCH less accessible by making EV training a pain in the ass again.
EV Gauges are still in. The top of the stat screen displays IVs by default, but you can switch to EVs wit the y button I think.

hordes are definitely out, its just a question of pokelego works, which might be the designated "slow but steady" replacement. If a bit more awkward to use since it does it by box.
 
EV Gauges are still in. The top of the stat screen displays IVs by default, but you can switch to EVs wit the y button I think.

hordes are definitely out, its just a question of pokelego works, which might be the designated "slow but steady" replacement. If a bit more awkward to use since it does it by box.
Good point. By the sounds of it, Pokepelago should be fast enough for people to prepare their gen 8 teams.

Seriously though, maxing one stat on one Pokemon takes over FIVE DAYS. One EV every 30 minutes, apparently.
 
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Good point. By the sounds of it, Pokepelago should be fast enough for people to prepare their gen 8 teams.

Seriously though, maxing one stat on one Pokemon takes over FIVE DAYS. One EV every 30 minutes, apparently.
If you shove 10 Vitamins into a Pokemon first, then you knock it down to a little over 3 days at least... Although at that pace it would still be quicker to just grab a Power item and hunt down specific Pokemon. IIRC from Gen 5 it took a couple of hours to max out a stat.
 
Good point. By the sounds of it, Pokepelago should be fast enough for people to prepare their gen 8 teams.

Seriously though, maxing one stat on one Pokemon takes over FIVE DAYS. One EV every 30 minutes, apparently.
the first 100 evs can still be sped up using the ev boosting one use items like Carbos and Protein though

If you shove 10 Vitamins into a Pokemon first, then you knock it down to a little over 3 days at least... Although at that pace it would still be quicker to just grab a Power item and hunt down specific Pokemon. IIRC from Gen 5 it took a couple of hours to max out a stat.
I had no issues whatso ever with using "Power Bracer" on a Pokerus pokemon in black and white. only took me an hour of killing lillipup's and patrats on route 1 for a max attack ev.
 
I'm wondering (and concerned) about whether the advent of “fake IV's” via Hyper Training means that they have undone the shortcuts to perfect “real IV's” from Gen VI — the Destiny Knot, guaranteed 3 31's on unique legendary/mythical Pokémon, et cetera. Then again, there's the whole Lv. 100 block to consider, so maybe they'll be nice enough (scoff) to leave those mechanics alone.

With all the changes going on, I can't comfortably assume anything, so I want to ask… Any confirmation that the EV-increasing power items still available and unchanged? Or any changes (good or bad) to breeding mechanics? Or any number of things that will help or hinder the breeding process?

(I saw that males and genderless Pokémon breeding with Ditto will pass on their Poké balls to the eggs. Excellent news there, at least.)
 
the first 100 evs can still be sped up using the ev boosting one use items like Carbos and Protein though
You're still looking at a whole week to fully train one Pokemon with a standard 252 in two stats spread.

Is there at least a way to reset EVs? If not, I might just cancel my preorder and stick to gen 6 competitive on cartridge.

I had no issues whatso ever with using "Power Bracer" on a Pokerus pokemon in black and white. only took me an hour of killing lillipup's and patrats on route 1 for a max attack ev.
Two hours per stat is an incredibly long time compared to what we're used to, and that's if you're lucky or well connected enough to get Pokerus. Plus the Power items are very expensive postgame items.

It's like they were trying to advertise PkHex.
 
You're still looking at a whole week to fully train one Pokemon with a standard 252 in two stats spread.

Is there at least a way to reset EVs? If not, I might just cancel my preorder and stick to gen 6 competitive on cartridge.
There's a facility on Poke Plaza that resets EVs if I'm not mistaken.
And I'm sorry to say this, but there most likely won't be a competitive scene for you to play in on gen 6 anymore. Everyone will eventually move onto SM, period. Battle Spot rating battles have already been discontinued even.
 
There's a facility on Poke Plaza that resets EVs if I'm not mistaken.
And I'm sorry to say this, but there most likely won't be a competitive scene for you to play in on gen 6 anymore. Everyone will eventually move onto SM, period. Battle Spot rating battles have already been discontinued even.
Isn't the festival plaza basically Join Avenue? Do you just have to randomly hope you get the stall or can you guarantee some kind of EV training tent?

Either way, you're limited to once per day with that, so reorganising my gen 6 collection for the new meta is still going to take months. Great.
 
About Hyper Training...
I don't know exactly how that works in the code but if Hyper Training does not increase IVs (simply adds a flag to the increased stat), doesn't that mean that if in a future game/gen they remove the Hyper Training code, won't the stats decrease to their original values?

Also, please tell me that I'm reading this wrong:
private void verifyHyperTraining()
{
if (pkm.Format < 7)
return; // No Hyper Training before Gen VII​
^
Does this mean we can't use Hyper Training on transfered Pokémon from Gen 6 and before? Aren't the pkm files converted to the new format after the transfer?
That snippet of code is referring to the feature not existing before Sun/Moon and to not enable it in a past gen save file.

I tested this with a Snorlax from LeafGreen -- It works.

Could have sworn there was text for hordes in the game files?

"Whoa! A horde of [VAR PKNAME(0000)] appeared!"

Could be leftover though..
Leftover. XYORAS had strings for Wonder Launcher too.

Notice that there's also a line for
"The [VAR Trainer Class] Grunts sent out a horde of Poochyena/Mightyena!"

Poochyena/Mightyena are not in the Alola Dex and only Battle Royal and Battle Tree opponents will use them.
 
While I'm pissed hordes are gone since there's no freaking reason to take them out other than gamefreak being gamefreak, I think there's a little bit of overreacting going on.

It's not just the pokepelago thing to train EV's, you also have the wild Pokemon calling allies thing. Assuming there's areas with them, just keep chaining high EV giving pokes and knocking them out. Pokerus + the bracelet things from previous gens that boost specific EV's will be pretty quick if there's areas where you can chain same EV giving Pokemon.
 
While I'm pissed hordes are gone since there's no freaking reason to take them out other than gamefreak being gamefreak, I think there's a little bit of overreacting going on.

It's not just the pokepelago thing to train EV's, you also have the wild Pokemon calling allies thing. Assuming there's areas with them, just keep chaining high EV giving pokes and knocking them out. Pokerus + the bracelet things from previous gens that boost specific EV's will be pretty quick if there's areas where you can chain same EV giving Pokemon.
Er, wouldn't it be faster to just ko the wild pokemon and go look for another than having to kill it's allies while the wild 'mon slowly kills your own 'mon not to mention that summons can fail and arceus knows how often the wild pokemon will summon an Ally.
 
While I'm pissed hordes are gone since there's no freaking reason to take them out other than gamefreak being gamefreak, I think there's a little bit of overreacting going on.

It's not just the pokepelago thing to train EV's, you also have the wild Pokemon calling allies thing. Assuming there's areas with them, just keep chaining high EV giving pokes and knocking them out. Pokerus + the bracelet things from previous gens that boost specific EV's will be pretty quick if there's areas where you can chain same EV giving Pokemon.
Yeah...presumably you can max out the EVs in a particular stat in one (long) encounter. You have to knock out each opponent one-by-one, but you don't have to keep going into the menu and doing Sweet Scent. You can plausibly argue that it should end up being more convenient.
 
So I heard that megas got a buff in that their speed/abilities were applied immediately on evolution, can anyone confirm this? If it is, it solves a bunch of the problems that slow-to-fast megas had.
 
Er, wouldn't it be faster to just ko the wild pokemon and go look for another than having to kill it's allies while the wild 'mon slowly kills your own 'mon not to mention that summons can fail and arceus knows how often the wild pokemon will summon an Ally.
Unfortunately I'm not entirely sure how the chaining thing works. Just have what a bunch of people have posted to go off of, but there is an item you can use to make wild Pokemon more likely to call a partner. Just get them to low health which increases chance of calling an ally and occasionally use the adrenaline orb (it only costs 300 poke dollars) and the consistency would probably be fine.
 
So I heard that megas got a buff in that their speed/abilities were applied immediately on evolution, can anyone confirm this? If it is, it solves a bunch of the problems that slow-to-fast megas had.
It's confirmed, we saw a video of a level 10 Banette Mega Evolving and outspeeding a level 30 Wingull on the same turn by using a status move.
 
That snippet of code is referring to the feature not existing before Sun/Moon and to not enable it in a past gen save file.

I tested this with a Snorlax from LeafGreen -- It works.
gamefreak?
arbitrarily give good things then take it away??
My main question about Hyper Training remains:
I don't fully understand the code so someone correct me but I'm seriously worried that in future games, if they remove Hyper Training, the pokémon's stats will decrease back to their original values since the IVs were not actually changed.

Do we know if males can pass hidden abilities now, or if the male's ball can transfer over the female's ball?
Males can pass HA with Ditto since XY. And now they can also pass the ball.
 
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So I heard that megas got a buff in that their speed/abilities were applied immediately on evolution, can anyone confirm this? If it is, it solves a bunch of the problems that slow-to-fast megas had.
It's confirmed, we saw a video of a level 10 Banette Mega Evolving and outspeeding a level 30 Wingull on the same turn by using a status move.
Would this nerf Mega Sableye? If Magic Bounce activates before Prankster then he no longer gets a singe shot priority status move anymore. This is a big buff to stuff like Mega Diance and Mega Manectric if true, and suddenly Absol's and Houndoom's low base speed pre mega are no longer an issue.
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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Is there a list of old moves that changed in power, accuracy, or effects?

Like Twave, Dark Void, etc.
 
Wow! Thanks game! We gotta wait for the next game to get regular forms of Pokemon through breeding.

https://twitter.com/KazoWAR/status/797343460277755904

Breeding 2 normal Rattata still gets eggs that hatch into Alolan Rattata. That's just great...
Can someone confirm if breeding regular Pokemon with HA can result in Alora Pokemon with their own HA (e.g Get a Snow Warning Vulpix from Drought carrying Parents)? Kinda important for me as currently the only thing making me consider choosing Sun is getting a HA Aloran Ninetails. But I already have HA Vulpix from ORAS and I am happy to wait till Pokebank...
 
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