M&M Mix and Mega

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

So I CAN'T use that idea, because this girl ingame that used a Mega Abomasnow right in front of my faced trolled me. ;(

But on the bright side... I have a beast for you all. He's dying to have some use on some competitive teams, so give it up for Tapu Bulu!

The Bully Show (Tapu Bulu) @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Bulk Up
- Superpower
- Megahorn

This is a beast and a half. You can run Wood Hammer to smack Primal Groudon super hard, but I prefer the recovery factor, and is still obscenely strong the first 5 turns. Aerodactylite makes Tapu Bulu even bulkier, making it hard for anything not running Poison coverage to down this bull in one hit. It also provides a sweet Tough Claws boost to all of its moves, pretty much. Bulk Up is what makes this set great, as the likes of Cresselia and Blissey cannot wall the rampaging bull! Megahorn is the coverage of choice for Bulky Psychics, even if Cresselia is deemed too good for this world, and Superpower smacks Skarmory 7 ways from Sunday, and hits Normal types harder. You might even be able to take on some of the monsters of this tier with it; just eliminate the Pinsirite threats first. It's one thing you'll want to avoid. But besides that, the Bull destroys all. RIP not having Play Rough, but that might make this bull absolutely busted. Yes, even more than Tapu Lele.

 

[Jrdn]

Lunala @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind

Welcome to my second Mix and Mega Pokemon showcase, but this time there is no mega stone, there is just an animal. An animal that feasts on stall and balance, but mainly stall. The animal's name is Lunala. The inception of the idea was pretty simple. I wanted something that can handle Blissey, as the original focal point of my team was a pretty standard special attacker that just lost to Blissey. There are two main sets that Blissey runs and both use Sablenite. The first one is the usual support set; probably a moveset of Toxic/Seismic Toss/Heal Bell/Soft Boiled, or potentially wish-tect. The second set is the Calm Mind set which runs Calm Mind/Hyper Voice/Soft Boiled/Filler, where the filler is usually one of Ice Beam or Flamethrower. The amazing thing about this set is it completely handles both, assuming you don't switch it directly in on Toxic, and can proceed to completely counter sweep a team. It's a huge menace and often teams underestimate how dangerous this monster can be. It also 1v1's pretty much every other Calm Mind user, including Sablenite Cresselia, which is also a huge nuisance. The sheer ability to sweep and counter sweep many scary threats is incredible, and Lunala has consistently been the MVP of games I have played using it's team.

The coverage of Moongeist Beam and Psyshock, while not perfect, has some pretty incredible uses. On top of the fact that both of those moves are STAB, each of them also have important secondary effects. Psyshock, as previously mentioned, allows it to 1v1 all the Calm Mind users, as well as help kill Blissey just that much quicker. Moongeist Beam is also very potent, killing Mimikyu in one hit as well as desecrating people who are gutty enough to use Unaware pokemon. Both of these moves are strong moves as well which just help more in aiding Lunala's terrifying sweep. Substitute is put on there over Moonlight simply to dodge status. I find it much more useful and makes predictions much less stressful as well.

Finally as a cherry on top, Shadow Shield as a superb ability. While this set doesn't utilize it's effect to the fullest, it has often helped me eat hits and retaliate back/set up of otherwise scary threats. I'm really happy I made this discovery. Lunala is 100% an ANIMAL

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-493501076 - Replay of Lunala banishing stall to the shadow realm

[Edit]

Bid for Sample Teams:

Playstyle: Balance

Import: http://hastebin.com/palafuvibu.diff

How it works: The idea of the team was simply to use pokemon that performed well in the the metagame. Calm Mind Grounceus was the original idea of the team, scaring almost every team that doesn't carry a bulkier Calm Mind user or Blissey. That's where Lunala comes in; Substitute + Calm Mind Lunala absolutely shreds all of those CM Arceus checks and then some, and more often than not, Lunala ends up finishing the job too. Dragonite was added in because it's terrifying and the dual resistance to PDon is appreciated as well Blue Orb Metagross allows for another strong priority user as well as a much needed fairy resist. It easily scares out Fairy types as well and it can set up rocks pretty easily bar any Sablenite users. Latias is the Defogger of choice, mainly my choice to make Red Orb Raikou a non issue, as well as make bulky Pdon's life miserable in conjunction with Sablenite. Finally, Vaporeon is the glue, it supports the team and Heal Bell has saved me multiple times, mainly curing Lunala from poison if I let that happen.

Possible Changes: At this point I'd strongly consider CM Arceus-Dark over Arceus Ground. While Grounceus succeeds in scaring out PDon, my team's weakness to ghost and dark is very obvious. While I haven't lost, I think such a blatant weakness makes it much harder for a casual player to succeed depending on player match up.

 

[anaconja]

I'm using this team and am currently at in the top 60 (peaked at top 10, went 23-0)

Speedy Volt-Turn Hyper Offensive

Regigigas @ Metagrossite
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Facade
- Drain Punch
- Iron Head

Dragonite @ Salamencite
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Facade
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake

Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Stealth Rock
- Will-O-Wisp
- Perish Song

Pheromosa @ Lucarionite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Lunge
- High Jump Kick
- Poison Jab
- U-turn

Tapu Koko @ Lucarionite
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt / Discharge
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam
- Roost

Raikou @ Red Orb
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Weather Ball
- Discharge
- Extreme Speed
- Volt Switch

Regigigas is just your classic set. Facade to take care of pesky WoW users, Drain Punch to retain the bulk, Iron Head to get rid of Fairies.

Dragonite is also regular, with Earthquake to check Steel and Rock types.

Arceus-Steel is my main lead + spiker, with WoW to cripple physical attackers, Perish Song to force out set-up sweepers and stallers, and Judgement to kill Fairies.

Pheremosa is my main wincon. HJK at least 2HKOs without 4x resistance and those named Dragonite or Cresseslia. Poison Jab kills Fairies (I kinda hate Fairies), U-Turn to switch out of Flying and Fire types, and Lunge as a filler (idk what to put here)

Tapu Koko is a great sweeper and check to the likes of Darkrai and other sleep users. Especially with Electric Terrain and Adaptability, Thunderbolt hits really hard at 405 base power coming off of a good 117 SpA. Dazzing Gleam is to handle Dragon types, and Roost helps its frailty (though not really needed). You can also use Discharge to check fast sweepers.

Raikou has been great in Gen 6 and still is in Gen 7. Weather Ball and Discharge are its main nukes while Extreme Speed finishes off weak mons.

Pokemon that cause trouble:
Dragonite and Pheromosa are very hard to check, let alone counter: Dragonite has a lot of bulk while Pheromosa outspeeds anything not name Deoxys-S (which isn't seen much in this gen).

Although I haven't run into Groudon-P very much, it hits hard since many of my team are weak to Ground (Raikou especially).

Once my Dragonite and Pheromosa are down it becomes very hard for me to kill Blissey since those are my main physical nukes.

So if someone could add some suggestions on how to improve my team and help check the pokemon above that would be great.

 

[thdhted]

If I may, I'd suggest switching Arc-Steel to Specially Defensive Arc Ghost, which can handle Pdon with no problem, and has a very spammable STAB that makes bulky psychics not want to switch in. Perish Song is decent at forcing things out, but you should really be running Recover to heal up. SR is fine, though I can also suggest Defog, as many of your team members dislike rocks on the field.

 

[anaconja]

If I may, I'd suggest switching Arc-Steel to Specially Defensive Arc Ghost, which can handle Pdon with no problem, and has a very spammable STAB that makes bulky psychics not want to switch in. Perish Song is decent at forcing things out, but you should really be running Recover to heal up. SR is fine, though I can also suggest Defog, as many of your team members dislike rocks on the field.

I was using Arc-Steel to tank the -ate spam, but I'll try this. Thanks!

I've also found a cool set to use:

Mandibuzz @ Sablenite
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Foul Play
- U-turn

Although it's doesn't have that good of a typing, it makes up for it with its great 110/155/145 bulk. Defog to get rid of SR, Roost to keep its bulk up, and Foul Play is a great move since most mons here are physical attackers. A slow U-Turn is great as well.

 

[M'joe'ra]

Alright sample team time

It's been a hot minute since gen 6 Mix and Mega but I have returned for gen 7 and this time instead of bringing the heat, I'm bringing the ice age.

B-B-B-BEATDOWN AND I'M (Kyurem) BLACK

I sear I'm not just spamming broken mons

This is the first solid team that I have created for the Sun and Moon Mix and Mega metagame. It does have its weaknesses and flaws, but what team doesn't? This offense team isn't that difficult to use while still being very potent and will be very easy for a beginning player to pick up and enjoy using.

Kyurem-Black @ Glalitite
Ability: Teravolt
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 56 HP / 200 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Fusion Bolt
- Substitute
- Roost

Beatdown himself. Kyurem Black has been freed to tear apart the metagame with his already fantastic base stats boosted to extreme levels and gaining the dearly wanted physical ice STAB that it has wanted all this time with Glalitite. Frustration punches holes into the opposing team with a nasty base power of 122 after the Refrigerate boost combined with an abhorrent 210 base attack stat which rivals that of Mega Mawile. Fusion Bolt rounds out the infamous Bolt-Beam coverage allowing Kyube to hit everything at least neutrally while still hitting hard thanks to that base attack stat, a base power of 100 helps out too. Substitute is where things get interesting. While this is not a specifically bulky Kyurem Black set, it still has great natural bulk even though it does not get any boosts from Glalitite. Substitute when combined with the 56 hp evs allows Kyurem Black to set up and not have its Substitute broken by Blissey's Seismic Toss, thus giving it a free hit or chance to recover some health. Substitute also lets Kyube avoid status moves that could cripple it or put it on a timer and thus ruin its longevity. Roost is the aforementioned recovery move which increases longevity as said before.

Regigigas @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Slow Start
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch

The beast finally has a good start. Regigigas is a monster, sporting a very high pre-mega base attack stat of 160 which is only 10 points less than Kyurem Black and 110/130/130 bulk post mega. It can not only hit very hard but it can also power through a lot of very strong hits and remove some very potent threats from the opposing team. Before it was freed from its bonds Regigigas was held back by its ability of Slow Start, but now it no longer has that hindrance and has the exceptionally potent ability of Tough Claws which works very well in combination with this moveset. Return is the standard STAB move of choice, while it can't hit anything super effectively it still hits as hard neutrally as a super effective hit from one of Regi's coverage moves. Since you are running Aerodactylite and will thus be slower than the standard Metagrossite Regigigas, Drain punch allows you to beat said Regis 1v1 since you will deal move damage and end up with more health from the move's recovery second effect since you will move after Metagrossite Regigigas. Thunder Punch and Ice Punch add Bolt-Beam coverage while allowing you to deal with Blue Orb Skarmory/Celesteela and deal more damage to quad weak targets. Just as a heads up, since you are running Aerodactylite you will only reach 372 speed thus allowing you to be outsped by some things that wouldn't if you were to run Metagrossite. But as I said, this gives you a way to deal with opposing Regigigas better which would be a bigger threat without this stone.

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Lava Plume/Stone Edge
- Roar

The first part of the team's defensive backbone, Primal Groudon is still just as good in gen 7 Mix and Mega as it was in Ubers or last gen's Mix and Mega. A specially defensive spread allows Pdon to take special hits that would otherwise greatly weaken or kill it better such as Tail Glow Xurkitree's +3 Grass Knot or GeoXern's +2 Focus Blast and in return either kill or Roar out the opposing threat. Groudon was the Stealth Rock setter of choice for this team due to the multitude of free switches that it creates with its typing, bulk and ability in Desolate Land. Precipice Blades was chosen as the powerful physical STAB over Earthquake because the extra 20 base power does do a big chunk more than eq and isn't rendered useless by Tapu Bulu's Grassy Terrain. Your choice of second attacking move is up to you and where you find yourself on the ladder. Lava Plume has more general utility in a chance to burn and being STAB but is stopped dead in its tracks by Blue Orb users. Stone Edge hits the things that Lava Plume can't such as Venusaurite Zapdos which is a very strong Primal Groudon check that you might find on the higher end of the ladder depending on your opponent. Roar phases out setup sweepers such as Geomancy Xerneas and Dragon Dance Dragonites that aren't afraid of a Lava Plume burn or a hit from Stone Edge while racking up Stealth Rock damage.

Zapdos @ Venusaurite
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Toxic
- Thunderbolt
- Defog

Zapdos is the mon of choice for the required hazard removal and the second part of the team's defensive backbone. When given a Venusaurite Zapdos becomes very hard to kill. It's post mega base defensive stats of 90/125/110 while very good aren't exceptionally amazing, its mega ability is what makes this mon so good at what it does and so hard to take down. With Thick Fat Zapdos loses its weakness to ice type attacks and gains a resistance to fire type moves Thus becoming a wall to non Stone Edge Primal Groudon which is what you will be switching it in on the majority of the time and becoming able to not be 2hko'd by Glalitite Weavile which is insane. Toxic puts your opponent's switchins on a timer which is exceptionally important against Primal Groudon since a Hidden Power Ice would do next to nothing to it. Thunderbolt hits decently well for being a defensive set coming off of a base special attack stat of 147 which is nothing to sneeze at while allowing Zapdos to beat Steel/Flying mons such as Blue Orb Skarmory or Celesteela and Pinsirite Cobalion or Metagross. Hazard control is mandatory on almost every team and Defog is what fulfills that role here on this team as mentioned earlier.

Magearna @ Venusaurite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Heart Swap
- Pain Split

Magearna is a new addition to Mix and Mega and has been proven to be a solid choice in this very potent metagame. Magearna functions as the secondary Xerneas check, emergency Dragonite and Zygarde check while being able to stop setup mons in certain situations. Fleur Cannon is a STAB nuke coming off of a base 152 special attack combined with a Modest nature and a base power of 130. This move allows you to chunk opposing teams and OHKO the dragon sweepers that could give this team trouble. Flash Cannon is the weaker secondary STAB but doesn't have the drawback of the -2 special attack drop after a use while having more pp. Heart Swap is where things get fun. This move basically allows you stop setup sweepers if you can get it off and possibly reverse sweep them with the boosts. It's best uses can be found against Geomancy Xerneas, Calm Mind Blissey and Calm Mind Cresselia while still having a use in removing the special attack drops from Fleur Cannon. Pain Split gives Magearna an active form of recovery that doesn't render it useless like Rest. Albeit it doesn't recover a lot but it does give it just enough longevity and can recover you back to or near full against mons with a lot of HP.

Pheromosa @ Metagrossite
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive/Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Lunge
- Ice Beam/Poison Jab

Pheromosa summed up in one word is nightmare. Sporting very high attack and speed stats that get boosted even further by stat boosts and Tough Claws combined with high power moves like High Jump Kick while also having the utility in U-turn to get away from challenges it cannot take on, Pheromosa is a terror to face no matter the team. High Jump Kick obliterates everything that isn't defensive or a ghost type which you should be wary of due to the 50% hp loss if you decide to use this move recklessly when the opponent has a ghost type still alive. U-turn gives the aforementioned utility and allows Phero to dish out chip damage to everything since there is nothing that is immune to bug type attacks bar Shedinja which you shouldn't even be running anyways. Lunge gives you the security from loss of health and the damage capability that U-turn gives but lets you stay in which could be important depending on the situation all while dropping the opponent's attack stat. The last move comes down to what you want to hit harder, Ice Beam hits Flying types while Poison Jab hits Fairy types, take your pick!

Importable

Kyurem-Black @ Glalitite
Ability: Teravolt
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 56 HP / 200 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Fusion Bolt
- Substitute
- Roost

Regigigas @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Slow Start
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Lava Plume
- Roar

Zapdos @ Venusaurite
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Toxic
- Thunderbolt
- Defog

Magearna @ Venusaurite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Fleur Cannon
- Heart Swap
- Pain Split

Pheromosa @ Metagrossite
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Lunge
- Ice Beam

So there you have it. I did peak at 10th on the ladder on my main alt but people passed me and I was too busy to ladder further. Either way currently I am at 14th and thus believe that I meet the requirements for this to become a sample team so please add it if it's good enough and ready for it Quantum Tesseract

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

Hello I'm here today to present my stall team, with which I am currently sitting at #9 with 1554 elo and 85.1% gxe.

(Alolan)

idk how to get the alolan form sprites so Quantum Tesseract u can figure that out if u want

Importable

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Lava Plume
- Thunderbolt

Blissey @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
- Protect

Cresselia @ Sablenite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight
- Psyshock
- Moonblast

Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Recover

Muk-Alola @ Lucarionite
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Shadow Sneak
- Crunch
- Gunk Shot

Zapdos @ Venusaurite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Volt Switch
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Last gen, stall teams were few and far between. It was hard to build an effective stall team due to the various -ates and stones like Diancite, Pidgeotite, and Ampharosite being very common and very anti-stall. In Sun/Moon, however, -atse are limited to Aerilate and Refrigerate, making them much easier to check, as well as the aforementioned stones being unreleased at this time. Even with threats such as Hoopa-U and Mega Gengar remaining in the meta, as well as new stallbreakers such as Golisopod, stall has carved itself out a solid niche in the meta and MUST be prepared for. Now onto the team itself:

First of all, I want to point out that this is a very aggressive stall team; you may notice that no mons have Toxic. This is because Mix and Mega is such a fast-paced metagame highly oriented around momentum, and this team is built to do steady chip damage as it tanks hits.

Primal Groudon is simply a tremendous filler mon for almost any team. It is so adaptable and can do basically anything you want it to. In this case I decided to use the specially defensive rocker set to check stuff like Xerneas and Xurkitree (very dangerous you just can't let it set up like at all or it will OHKO your entire team) while phazing stuff. Tbolt lures Skarm and also 2HKOs Golisopod (which you outspeed) so if it's weakened you can simply bop it.

Blissey is a staple on stall and for good reason. It is just extremely bulky lol. Wish passing is very helpful to keep PDon healthy as well as conserve Cresselia's limited Moonlights, and Heal Bell dispatches annoying statuses. Not much to say Blissey is fairly standard.

Cresselia is a new unban with the current gen, and is also very bulky. This acts as the set up sweeper and has decent coverage with Psychock/Moonblast. Psyshock lets it win CM wars (it takes Secret Swords/Psyshocks with ease) and Moonblast hits Dark-types. PDon/Zapdos should typically be used to remove Steel-types prior to trying to set up. Cress is a great wincon and can nab leadoff 6-0s low ladder lol

Arceus-Ghost is such a great mon, checking huge threats like Pheromosa, Buzzwole, Regigigas, Primal Groudon, etc. It also acts as the fogger, and wisp is very helpful in almost every game. It's great to have a Ghost-type on stall, particularly one like Ghostceus with reliable recovery, simply because Pheromosa and Regigigas are such huge threats otherwise.

Muk-Alola. With Lucarionite and max attack. Many of you may be wondering why such an offensive-sounding mon is on a stall team, but in many ways it is the most important member of the team. Muk-A has Pursuit, and with the EVs/nature/item it can switch in on and OHKO both Hoopa-U and Mega Gengar as they try to escape, who are both otherwise enormous threats to stall. It also checks stuff like Tapu Lele, Alakazam, Azelf, and it 1v1s Cresselia.

Finally, Zapdos. Zapdos is here to check the dangerous Kartana and act as a secondary check to Pheromosa, but mainly it's here so Kartana doesn't 6-0. It also serves as a fantastic Dragonite counter with HP Ice, and outspeeds Golisopod so it can VSwitch into PDon (VSwitch also 2HKOs if PDon is weakened/KOd). It also retains momentum for your side, which is always important in this meta.

Overall this stall team has been very successful, winning a roomtour featuring most of the top Mix and Mega players (including GoS, thdhted, and defeating Zephyr Dragon Lord in the finals), as well as the top ten peak. Some threats to the team include SD Ground-types, such as PDon, Garchomp, and Lando-T, as a boosted, powerful attacker with edgequake coverage is difficult for this team to handle. Xurkitree will also sweep if you give it the slightest opportunity. RestCoil Zygarde-Complete also 6-0s unless you get lucky with an HP Ice crit at the right time.

Replay vs. Zephyr Dragon Lord (roomtour finals): http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-492596598
Replay vs. Zephyr Dragon Lord (rematch cuz he thought he coulda played better): http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-492953485
Replay vs. Quantum Tesseract: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-494326536 (I'm getting pissed off at myself for using stall at this point LOL honestly fuck stall)
Replay vs. NidoTheKing: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-492764369

tldr: stall is good and this team is great but if you use stall you should feel bad

Moral of the story: let us use all mega stones, even the unreleased ones, so that stall becomes bad again

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

M'joe'ra, I love seeing all of those GIFs, and that's a powerful team, too. and who doesn't like using a ton of broken threats with a banlist like this I also see you've further improved upon Magearna, which is a welcome sight.

As for my matches above... Arceus-Ghost is incredibly problematic to that team, and I wouldn't be surprised if it gets 6-0ed by it. (Of course, the team I posted earlier would have probably won, but I wanted to try something different) That second match with IT11 made me realize...

I was ALSO running a semi-stall team.... That had problems breaking Blissey. Which is why I'm sending the completed version of this team off here to be revitalized. Besides a few problems, it's honestly not terrible.

I present to you all... Hail Nouveau.

Hail Nouveau

Free Hail (Ninetales-Alola) (F) @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Moonblast

Red is da new Blue (Scizor) (M) @ Blue Orb
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 Def
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Defog
- Bullet Punch
- Roost

"The Strongest" (Mamoswine) @ Lucarionite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Shard

Fairly Odd (Azelf) @ Alakazite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Nasty Plot
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt

The Bully Show (Tapu Bulu) @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech
- Bulk Up
- Superpower
- Megahorn

Divine Serpent (Milotic) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Haze

Yes, that's an Alolan Ninetales without a Mega Stone. If we actually got a decent selection of mega stones, this team could have had Heal Bell support, too. But GF is a very inventive troll sometimes, and didn't let me do so. Anyways, the rest of the team are fairly potent threats that you don't see often because there are a ton more broken threats here. Mamoswine in particular is underrated, as Ice/Ground is a very potent STAB combination. This did take a game off of Grains of Salt, which is notable.

 

[Jerry311]

now that altarianite is unreleased, shouldn't the explanation and banner thingy be changed to not show altarianite entei? not that I can draw, just saying.

 

[BoCo365]

So this has been my SuMo Mix and Mega team and has served me pretty well. Can I get some reviews of it? Thanks in advance.

Thiccc (Blissey) @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Soft-Boiled
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball

Redemption (Archeops) (M) @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Defeatist
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Sky Attack
- Rock Slide
- Aqua Tail

Xmas Tree (Xurkitree) @ Alakazite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Energy Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Rest

Finally Got Game (Kyurem-Black) @ Glalitite
Ability: Teravolt
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Roost
- Dragon Claw
- Iron Head

Bow Before God (Tentacruel) (M) @ Scizorite
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Acid Spray
- Rapid Spin
- Water Pulse
- Giga Drain

Underworld King (Decidueye) (M) @ Lucarionite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Spirit Shackle
- Leaf Blade
- Roost
- Swords Dance

 

[RedSabre]

So, I was thinking that we could do some cool art thing for when a Pokémon Mega Evolves in this meta. I thought it would be cool if each Pokémon got a custom sprite for each stone, but knew it was too hard, and MacChaeger gave me a better idea that should be easy to code (Based on my mediocre self-taught knowledge of code). He suggested that instead of custom sprites, what if we had a sort of phantom image of the Mega/Primal when a Pokémon Mega Evolves while using their non-native stone. Kind of like when you see those cheesy TV shows of someone unleashing their "inner animal" and having a phantom image of a bear/lion/cat/whatever behind them. I just feel like it would be really cool to see, and could help those using insufferably small and annoying screens to tell what Mega Stone the enemy used. Seeing a phantom image of Lucario Mega/Mega Gross standing behind your/the opponents Pokémon would be kinda cool. Also, can someone make an MnM calculator so you don't have to manually input stats and ability/typing, just the stone? That would be really cool and would help speed up damage calculations. QT said he'd look into this a few weeks ago, but he is having trouble getting the stone to change the base stats. He may find a fix soon, though.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

So, I was thinking that we could do some cool art thing for when a Pokémon Mega Evolves in this meta. I thought it would be cool if each Pokémon got a custom sprite for each stone, but knew it was too hard, and MacChaeger gave me a better idea that should be easy to code (Based on my mediocre self-taught knowledge of code). He suggested that instead of custom sprites, what if we had a sort of phantom image of the Mega/Primal when a Pokémon Mega Evolves while using their non-native stone. Kind of like when you see those cheesy TV shows of someone unleashing their "inner animal" and having a phantom image of a bear/lion/cat/whatever behind them. I just feel like it would be really cool to see, and could help those using insufferably small and annoying screens to tell what Mega Stone the enemy used. Seeing a phantom image of Lucario Mega/Mega Gross standing behind your/the opponents Pokémon would be kinda cool. Also, can someone make an MnM calculator so you don't have to manually input stats and ability/typing, just the stone? That would be really cool and would help speed up damage calculations. QT said he'd look into this a few weeks ago, but he is having trouble getting the stone to change the base stats. He may find a fix soon, though.

This was rejected this the last time it came up, so don't get your hopes up.

View attachment 74969I did it. Undefeated as well!

You need to wait for the suspect ladder.

 

[TheIlluminatedOne]

Hello I made this broken team that I think everyone should see. I'm not super high on the ladder or anything but I am 18-0 on the account 'mybreathstinksbad' so that may be something to note.

Pretty clear this team is just 6 powerful pokemon, not much thought went into actually choosing the pokemon. I built this team around the idea that 5/6 of these pokemon may enjoy only a limited time of being able to use a mega stone. May as well abuse it.

Dragonite @ Salamencite
Ability: Multiscale
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Frustration

Dragonite is just Dragonite. Has the strongest extreme speed in the tier, a fantastic base ability in Multiscale, and the ability to set up with Dragon Dance. I haven't had to use this monster that often but when I do it's usually to finish the game.

Kyurem-Black @ Pinsirite
Ability: Teravolt
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Frustration
- Hone Claws
- Fusion Bolt

Kyurem-Black. Easily the best wall-breaker in the tier. Mega-evolving gives this brute a base 200 attack stat. I use this Pokemon primarily to punch holes in teams early game. Powerful Pokemon right here.

Regigigas @ Metagrossite
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Power-Up Punch
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch

Oh. My. Goodness. Why is this thing allowed to mega-evolve again? This Pokemon is a great late game sweeper and wall-breaker. Fantastic stats.

Cresselia @ Absolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight
- Calm Mind

Cresselia.. Yeah, thats right. Absolite. Sablenite could obviously be used but i opted for Absolite due to the team being so offensive. Cresselia doesn't even need extra bulk which may be a testament to its broken-ness. May as well answer this question right now: Cresselia is the best pokemon in this tier not because its "stronger" than the previous 3 pokemon, but because it's so much easier to use. With that being said, pretty standard set here. I've seen moonblast used over ice beam, and also dual screens too.

Genesect @ Metagrossite
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Iron Head
- Extreme Speed
- U-turn
- Blaze Kick

Genesect isn't blatantly broken like the previous 4 pokemon but, I would rank it easily one of the top 10 pokemon in mix and mega. It is extremely versatile. I love this set because it is the total package: Strong stab move in iron head, momentum with u-turn, ability to hit steel types with blaze-kick, and late game sweeping potential with extreme speed.

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Thunder Wave
- Lava Plume

Ok so, I used to have Landorus-Incarnate in this slot with absolite, and Tapu-Lele in Cresselia's slot with Lucarionite, but with the OU tier banning Landorus-Icarnate I had to change the team up a little bit. Primal-Groudon gets up my rocks whenever they're needed and is just a great overall pokemon no real explanation needed.

This team's main weakness is against set up sweepers I'd say. I also had a hell of a time against a (sablenite?)Magearna once, mainly because I didn't know what it could do. I don't want to write a book, just thought I'd share the team.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

Hello I made this broken team that I think everyone should see. I'm not super high on the ladder or anything but I am 18-0 on the account 'mybreathstinksbad' so that may be something to note.

Pretty clear this team is just 6 powerful pokemon, not much thought went into actually choosing the pokemon. I built this team around the idea that 5/6 of these pokemon may enjoy only a limited time of being able to use a mega stone. May as well abuse it.

Dragonite @ Salamencite
Ability: Multiscale
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Frustration

Dragonite is just Dragonite. Has the strongest extreme speed in the tier, a fantastic base ability in Multiscale, and the ability to set up with Dragon Dance. I haven't had to use this monster that often but when I do it's usually to finish the game.

Kyurem-Black @ Pinsirite
Ability: Teravolt
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Frustration
- Hone Claws
- Fusion Bolt

Kyurem-Black. Easily the best wall-breaker in the tier. Mega-evolving gives this brute a base 200 attack stat. I use this Pokemon primarily to punch holes in teams early game. Powerful Pokemon right here.

Regigigas @ Metagrossite
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Power-Up Punch
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch

Oh. My. Goodness. Why is this thing allowed to mega-evolve again? This Pokemon is a great late game sweeper and wall-breaker. Fantastic stats.

Cresselia @ Absolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight
- Calm Mind

Cresselia.. Yeah, thats right. Absolite. Sablenite could obviously be used but i opted for Absolite due to the team being so offensive. Cresselia doesn't even need extra bulk which may be a testament to its broken-ness. May as well answer this question right now: Cresselia is the best pokemon in this tier not because its "stronger" than the previous 3 pokemon, but because it's so much easier to use. With that being said, pretty standard set here. I've seen moonblast used over ice beam, and also dual screens too.

Genesect @ Metagrossite
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Iron Head
- Extreme Speed
- U-turn
- Blaze Kick

Genesect isn't blatantly broken like the previous 4 pokemon but, I would rank it easily one of the top 10 pokemon in mix and mega. It is extremely versatile. I love this set because it is the total package: Strong stab move in iron head, momentum with u-turn, ability to hit steel types with blaze-kick, and late game sweeping potential with extreme speed.

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Thunder Wave
- Lava Plume

Ok so, I used to have Landorus-Incarnate in this slot with absolite, and Tapu-Lele in Cresselia's slot with Lucarionite, but with the OU tier banning Landorus-Icarnate I had to change the team up a little bit. Primal-Groudon gets up my rocks whenever they're needed and is just a great overall pokemon no real explanation needed.

This team's main weakness is against set up sweepers I'd say. I also had a hell of a time against a (sablenite?)Magearna once, mainly because I didn't know what it could do. I don't want to write a book, just thought I'd share the team.

That team seems neat enough. Some notes; While Lando-I is banned from OU, it should still be legal in Mix and Mega.
You're team also seems to have a lt of trouble with hazards, as none of your pokemon can take out common setters like pdon to prevent this (also many of them lose to dong 1v1). You're only option is to use Cresselia, but as always that's very easy to wear down and has to mega first, not to mention that if you miss a predict and rocks go up they stay up.

As far as teams go, it has the definite advantage of being easy to use, but I wonder as to how well it functions in practice. Has it been working for you?

Hi. Most of the attention for Cresselia seems to have been for Sablenite, and for good reason, but I wonder if its overall best bulk option might not be Aggronite. Yes, it would only gain +20 to its SpDef instead of +50, but Psychic/Steel resists a hell of a lot more things than pure Psychic does. The added Fire and Ground weaknesses aren't fun, but they would be filtered by Filter, and the Bug weakness would be neutralized. Burning is still a possibility, but the damage from that was also nerfed this generation.

One more thing that can break through Cress at least with Sablenite, in case it gets overlooked: Banded Heracross, especially Guts variant. I think someone found in last generation's Mix&Mega Cress-suspect that it can very reliably OHKO with Megahorn -- not 100% of the time, but near it.

Just $0.02 (for some value of 2)

Aggronite is, unfortunately, unreleased.

 

[frogstomperful]

Pity, that (Aggronite unavailable).

Here's a set for a personal fave:

Infernape @ Scizorite
New Ability: Technician
New stat line: 76 / 124 / 111 / 114 / 91 / 118
IV's, EV's, Nature: 31's, 252-Attack 252-Speed 4-somewhere, Adamant/Jolly
== Swords Dance / Slack Off
== Flame Wheel / Double Kick
== Bulldoze
== Rock Tomb

Bulldoze and Rock Tomb give QuakeEdge coverage with almost as much power and less accuracy issues on the Edge part (95% vs Edge's 80%). Flame Wheel or Double Kick provide total or near-total neutral or better coverage combined with B/RT.

Scizorite gives the ape a very nice increase in bulk. Reliable healing is an option. Mega-Evolve, boost, hit things rather hard.

 

[Lcass4919]

so...just wanna point out that theres a small oversight nobody(i assume) has noticed.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-497598280

mega evolutions are able to be used without mega evo...uhh...this needs to be patched lol

edit: we just found out you can have any ability too...help

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Hey,

I'm going to be conducting a survey to get a view into how all of you think. A lot of you view the thread but don't post, and I want to hear from you as well, your voice matters. This survey will be about the direction Mix and Mega is heading, the changes in SuMo and how you feel about SuMo Mix and Mega. The survey can be found by click the link below. I'll keep the survey up for a while, then I'll be making some cool ways to showcase it in Excel! It'll only take 2 minutes!

SURVEY

 

[EchoGaia]

I dunno if Kyurem Black is banworthy, but the fact that it stays at 361 speed with Glaltite means that it's quite slow by the standards of mix and mega, most faster threats can handle it pretty nicely, should i even remind that ice is an horrible defensive typing and plague kyurem black with a ton of weaknesses. With other stones it still lacks what it lacks in OU, a good STAB without immunities (pinsirite could i guess work, but that leaves it much too weak to Glaltite Weavile and Ice priority in general and Ice shouldn't be a type you are very weak too in MnM unless you are dragonite) Pinsirite Cobalion can make the choice to not mega evolve immidiately, tank a Return and setup a Swords Dance, then Mega Evolve and smash it (and maybe smash the rest of your team as well). Venusaurite Magearna completely walls all Kyurem Blacks that don't want to run Ground type coverage.

Concerning Regigigas, it goes in the same boat as Kyurem Black, maybe with better issues though. Ghost types tend to wall it completely as it as only Knock Off/elemental punches to hit them with, it has a hard time dealing with Celesteela and Skarmory if it lacks Thunder Punch, especially Venusaurite or Blue Orb variants. its typing is also poor defensively as while it has only one weakness, it lacks resistances.

Genesect isn't banworthy at all. Pinsirite and Metagrossite are what it can use the best, and both lose to Primal Groudon/Red Orb Hippowdon/Blue Orb Celesteela if it lacks thunderbolt. And at least, Pdon is very common in mix and mega.

But i agree for Pheromosa, while it has no bulk, its speed+offenses coupled with Lucarionite, Metagrossite, Glaltite (so that it doesn't rely on Ice Beam for coverage) makes it very difficult to wall. Even if it loses to priority, but Tapu Lele is still here so...

Dragonite is ok in the meta right now due to more broken behemoths still alive.

Zygarde lost its best stone and is a bit underwhelming with Pinsirite, as it faces stiff competition with Dragonite as an Aerilate extreme speed user and sometimes having two Aerilate users with same typing isn't a good thing. it has Thousand Arrows to compensate that allows it to beat Celesteela and Skarmory more reliably, but Dragonite can use Thunder in its moveset to beat Blue Orb Celesteela and Skarmory if he wanted to.

Manaphy is in the same boat as Zygarde, with Sceptilite unreleased it lost one of its best stones, but absolite is still a good choice, but not broken though.

I don't have more opinions for now, Just saying that Pinsirite Cobalion is awesome.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

what are you doing using an arceus fire without recover durza

SO. 2 teams, 2 tries. 1 weakened and shriveled point to it all. The struggle was more than 100 games, more than a fair few losses, me trying to make a broken team actually WORK against good people (somehow I couldn't, and deleted the team out of rage), and so much information about mono-attacking Hippowdon that I don't know what to do with it. This was this suspect.

https://gyazo.com/9df0d6167afc5a1538b1d399d6e7d90e

And I STILL made reqs. (I'm Zephyr Duckgon on that list)

As for my vote on Cresselia... I Abstain my vote for the moment. ...Yeah, seriously. While Cresselia is pretty hard to get a handle on with a weaker team, both the Mold Breaker stones and offensive boosting mons that are not weak to Psychic are really able to handle Cresselia. And my trusty buddy Tapu Bulu can take on Cresselia, too... coming out as the clear victor.
Even with all of that, Cresselia is still obscenely bulky, and is hard to really eliminate from the playing field, which is something that becomes problematic when you're getting stalled yourself.

But yes. My REAL purpose for coming this far is to tell you all some vital information. Infromation about the future of Mix and Mega. And I'll do it anyways, even though Grains of Salt clearly knows by now. But I'm making sure everyone gets the message in a public environment.
The bans in place now are clearly not enough.
I don't want anyone, much less newbies, facing monsters such as Glalite Kyruem Black or Pinsirite/Altarianite Genesect. They'll probably become extremely frustrated with the state of the unbalanced metagame. But just this won't be enough... let me explain HOW these monsters ruin our day. Each and every one of them that I find problematic. We'll need to touch on most of these pretty fast.

Kyruem-Black: This is problemo uno. The Big Cheese. Beatdown itself. Sporting an incredible Base 170 Attack, and incredible bulk to go along with it, Kyruem is outfitted to destroy worlds with a Mega Stone. (Even without one, it still has Freeze Shock. That is a signature move, remember, and it can be used to devastating effect in OU sometimes...) While the natural choice is Glalite for a STAB that takes less than two turns, it can also run Charizardite X, Pinsirite, Altarianite, and a wide host of other ones. All while hitting walls for obscene damage. Ban this thing from Mega Stones, please...

Regigigas: You have a Slow Start no longer... but I wish it did. Nearly as much power as Kyruem, is faster, and has a wide variety of punches. This titan can stand up to nearly everything, and smash it to pieces with a Return or a punch. It can even boost with Power-Up Punch. Again, the bulk is too dumb for what it does.

Genesect: This is an issue of a different breed. And one we've dealt with before. Pinsirite was actually the best set all along, imo. But this one is a wallbreaker and a revenger in one nasty package. Extreme Speed and Techno Blast combine into a crazy combination that is very hard to wall. And it can U-Turn if anything gets too hairy. Download just makes these problems worse, and elevates them to a sweeping level of threatening. This needs to be banned again.

Pheromosa: A newer threat, but one that is up there with the titans, nonetheless. At first glance, the non-existent bulk might balance this bug. But that goes out of the window when you give it the option to play off of its strengths even better. In this case, it's Mega Stones. Lucarionite makes the kicks and U-turns of this beauty hyper-powered, and it's pretty easy to get swept by this when your priority is out of the picture. If you have all of your team with priority, well... you might have bigger issues.

Dragonite: While less concerning than the examples above, this is still a major Extreme Speeder. It also has Multiscale, and respectable bulk of its own paired with awesome power and a ton of moves to us it with, and there's not many situations where Dragonite doesn't do at least something. It can also run a myriad of different stones to surprise the opponent.

Zygarde can be lumped in here, too, as it acts pretty similarly to Dragonite, minus the sheer versatility, but can also utilize the incredibly powerful Thousand moves, which can either give Zygarde perfect neutral coverage or trap an enemy, which you can then deal with at your own pace...

Manaphy: This is also powerful. Maybe too much for walls and offense alike. It lost Sceptilite, but it still has the other stone... meaning it's a potent sweeper that's still worth looking into a suspect for. I expect to see a ton of arguments about the power of Manaphy...

That's it for now. There's also Lucario, but this post is too long as is. Happy battling!

Just to clarify, you said "Mold Breaker stones" but only Gyaradosite is released, not Ampharosite, and not as much gains from Gyaradosite as did from Ampharosite. Also, due to even you admitting all that stuff is broken, I think it's worth bearing in mind that all of those mons will likely be gone soon, and Cress will dominate then.

I dunno if Kyurem Black is banworthy, but the fact that it stays at 361 speed with Glaltite means that it's quite slow by the standards of mix and mega, most faster threats can handle it pretty nicely, should i even remind that ice is an horrible defensive typing and plague kyurem black with a ton of weaknesses. With other stones it still lacks what it lacks in OU, a good STAB without immunities (pinsirite could i guess work, but that leaves it much too weak to Glaltite Weavile and Ice priority in general and Ice shouldn't be a type you are very weak too in MnM unless you are dragonite) Pinsirite Cobalion can make the choice to not mega evolve immidiately, tank a Return and setup a Swords Dance, then Mega Evolve and smash it (and maybe smash the rest of your team as well). Venusaurite Magearna completely walls all Kyurem Blacks that don't want to run Ground type coverage.

Concerning Regigigas, it goes in the same boat as Kyurem Black, maybe with better issues though. Ghost types tend to wall it completely as it as only Knock Off/elemental punches to hit them with, it has a hard time dealing with Celesteela and Skarmory if it lacks Thunder Punch, especially Venusaurite or Blue Orb variants. its typing is also poor defensively as while it has only one weakness, it lacks resistances.

Genesect isn't banworthy at all. Pinsirite and Metagrossite are what it can use the best, and both lose to Primal Groudon/Red Orb Hippowdon/Blue Orb Celesteela if it lacks thunderbolt. And at least, Pdon is very common in mix and mega.

But i agree for Pheromosa, while it has no bulk, its speed+offenses coupled with Lucarionite, Metagrossite, Glaltite (so that it doesn't rely on Ice Beam for coverage) makes it very difficult to wall. Even if it loses to priority, but Tapu Lele is still here so...

Dragonite is ok in the meta right now due to more broken behemoths still alive.

Zygarde lost its best stone and is a bit underwhelming with Pinsirite, as it faces stiff competition with Dragonite as an Aerilate extreme speed user and sometimes having two Aerilate users with same typing isn't a good thing. it has Thousand Arrows to compensate that allows it to beat Celesteela and Skarmory more reliably, but Dragonite can use Thunder in its moveset to beat Blue Orb Celesteela and Skarmory if he wanted to.

Manaphy is in the same boat as Zygarde, with Sceptilite unreleased it lost one of its best stones, but absolite is still a good choice, but not broken though.

I don't have more opinions for now, Just saying that Pinsirite Cobalion is awesome.

Sure Ice isn't a stellar defensive typing but Dragon is, and it can set up Sub on bulky mons (e.g. Zapdos, Blissey) and recover with Roost. You also neglect to consider that Ice is a FANTASTIC offensive typing, and Kyu-B gets 210 attack, with 102 BP before Refrigerate and STAB, and that it has Fusion Bolt for bulky waters. Earth Power is also a very viable coverage move for Kyu-B as it has 160 special attack, which is great, and hurts some of its checks, such as Magearna and Raikou.

Cobalion isn't as good in the current meta imo, as lots of stuff outspeeds it (Kartana and Pheromosa, for example, as well as base 90 or higher Absolite/Metagrossite mons). Zapdos and PDon are also VERY common, as PDon is splashable af, the most common rocks setter, and very reliable, whereas Zapdos is arguably the best pivot for stall/balance teams atm, due to checking Kartana, Pheromosa, and a variety of other mons. It also didn't gain anything special with gen 7 (not even many new, popular mons that it can beat, other than like Gene ig??) and is still checked by the same things it was last gen.

Sure Regigigas can't hit Ghost-types too hard, but it still basically the entire rest of the meta. It has great coverage in elemental punches, PuP, Drain Punch, and Return, hitting basically everything you'd want, bar Ghosts ofc. Also it's typing isn't even that bad, as it has insane bulk and can tank one hit from basically anything.

Genesect is so banworthy wtf? PDon and Hippo HATE Techno Blast, Celesteela loses to Thunder, it has Exlosion as a nuke button, nothing has changed since last gen, it's so good as a revenge killer?

Pheromosa shouldn't use Glalitite imo, it's still walled by the same things, as well as more now that it lacks power on STABs.

Dnite is crazy good hello? If you just get rocks and weaken the other team a little Dnite sets up and sweeps easily. It's a fantastic sweeper that munches on offense late game. It has insane coverage on both sides, and can be tweaked to beat whatever the hell you want, basically.

Mana is insanely broken too... 140 speed is p good in this meta and Tail Glow dismantles stall and takes a chunk out of balance. It's got great coverage through Scald, Ice Beam, Energy Ball, and Hidden Power Ground.

Have you played much Mix and Mega? Almost everything you said seems to be very basic (average defensive typing on an offensive mon, with good bulk to back it up no less, makes it not broken??? Having three checks makes it not broken???) and not to reflect the current state of the meta. I'd advise playing some more of the high end mix and mega players and joining room tours to get a better idea of the current meta.

 

[EchoGaia]

Sure Ice isn't a stellar defensive typing but Dragon is, and it can set up Sub on bulky mons (e.g. Zapdos, Blissey) and recover with Roost. You also neglect to consider that Ice is a FANTASTIC offensive typing, and Kyu-B gets 210 attack, with 102 BP before Refrigerate and STAB, and that it has Fusion Bolt for bulky waters. Earth Power is also a very viable coverage move for Kyu-B as it has 160 special attack, which is great, and hurts some of its checks, such as Magearna and Raikou.

Cobalion isn't as good in the current meta imo, as lots of stuff outspeeds it (Kartana and Pheromosa, for example, as well as base 90 or higher Absolite/Metagrossite mons). Zapdos and PDon are also VERY common, as PDon is splashable af, the most common rocks setter, and very reliable, whereas Zapdos is arguably the best pivot for stall/balance teams atm, due to checking Kartana, Pheromosa, and a variety of other mons. It also didn't gain anything special with gen 7 (not even many new, popular mons that it can beat, other than like Gene ig??) and is still checked by the same things it was last gen.

Sure Regigigas can't hit Ghost-types too hard, but it still basically the entire rest of the meta. It has great coverage in elemental punches, PuP, Drain Punch, and Return, hitting basically everything you'd want, bar Ghosts ofc. Also it's typing isn't even that bad, as it has insane bulk and can tank one hit from basically anything.

Genesect is so banworthy wtf? PDon and Hippo HATE Techno Blast, Celesteela loses to Thunder, it has Exlosion as a nuke button, nothing has changed since last gen, it's so good as a revenge killer?

Pheromosa shouldn't use Glalitite imo, it's still walled by the same things, as well as more now that it lacks power on STABs.

Dnite is crazy good hello? If you just get rocks and weaken the other team a little Dnite sets up and sweeps easily. It's a fantastic sweeper that munches on offense late game. It has insane coverage on both sides, and can be tweaked to beat whatever the hell you want, basically.

Mana is insanely broken too... 140 speed is p good in this meta and Tail Glow dismantles stall and takes a chunk out of balance. It's got great coverage through Scald, Ice Beam, Energy Ball, and Hidden Power Ground.

Have you played much Mix and Mega? Almost everything you said seems to be very basic (average defensive typing on an offensive mon, with good bulk to back it up no less, makes it not broken??? Having three checks makes it not broken???) and not to reflect the current state of the meta. I'd advise playing some more of the high end mix and mega players and joining room tours to get a better idea of the current meta.

i never said that ice wasn't a bad offensive typing, i said defensive. While Kyube destroys a lot of stuff, it can also be destroyed by some stuff. OK it gets roost and substitute, but that leaves you completely walled by Magearna if you run both and if you run sub but not roost you get worn down quickly.

Cobalion gets Quick Attack to circuvent its lackluster Speed, so Pheromosa doesn't revenge kill it at all. Kartana doesn't wall Cobalion hello, it gets 2HKOed by Return after a Swords Dance while Kartana cannot really do much back since it resists both its STAB moves. To say that, i'm pretty sure you NEVER played Cobalion.

i might have been wrong on Genesect though, Techno Blast kind of hurt Pdon and Hippo, but Pdon can ko it with lava Plume and Hippowdon can just click Stone Edge, not to mention Genesect now takes 50% on stealth rock so it doesn't come when it wants.

Manaphy is really good yeah, but i don't find it banworthy for now.

i never said Dragonite was bad, i say it was ok compared to other behemoths that are still here (Kyube, Regigigas etc...)

Don't say i never played Mix and Mega cause you misunderstood half of what i said.

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

Just to clarify, you said "Mold Breaker stones" but only Gyaradosite is released, not Ampharosite, and not as much gains from Gyaradosite as did from Ampharosite. Also, due to even you admitting all that stuff is broken, I think it's worth bearing in mind that all of those mons will likely be gone soon, and Cress will dominate then.

I'm looking at the big picture here. We're going to get all of those stones eventually, and I am well prepared for that day. Ampharosite mons have more trouble against Cress anyways due to also being Dragons... meaning they can now get donked by Moonblast harder.
(As a side note, Pinsirite Cobalion can handle both Katarna and Pheromosa depending on the set... Phero gets splatted by Quick Attack, and Katarna's best option is a neutral Sacred Sword, which will be responded to by a SE Close Combat... the defense drops of which are convinently ignored. ....Cobalion is just too good. Loses hardcore to Xurkitree, though)

And yes, I AM assuming all of these crazy threats are gone and out of here, as they should be. We have plenty of scary sweepers as is. I have a series of questions for you to probe Cress being enough to halt some of the greatest threats out there...

Is Cress able to 1v1 Salamancite Gyarados? What about with Substitute in the Gyara? Does bulky versus speedy spread make a difference?
Can Cress handle the Primals? How about if they're also boosting sets?
Can Cress deal with Red Orb Raikou? (I'm thinking this is a yes..)
Can Cress take the likes of Pinsirite Cobalion, Metagross, and Klinklang?
Can Cresselia keep a sweep in front of a Blue Orb Scizor? (Probably a big no for this one)
How many Calm Minds does Cress need before it can take on Pidgeotite Gengar? How much can Mega Gengar do to Cress with a Shadow Ball?
How much do the -ate speeders do to Cress with their attacks? Can Entei or Arcanine run Cress out of Moonlights?
Can Blissey win a stall war with Cress?

And most importantly... are the current answers we have enough to keep this balanced? And with that, I'm out. Hopefully this long-term evaluation helps you think about all of your decisions with more clarity. And don't use Cresselia as a dang argument to keep Genesect. I'll personally rap on you if that happens..

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

i just wanted to point out, why does everyone think we are getting the stones soon? volcanion wasnt even released until a generation after it was found in the games code, and the main selling point of the sun and moon games are the new mechanic of z-moves. I find it highly unlikely that game freak will release all the mega stones in the future of this generation.

I am simply assuming that we'll get a full version of Mix and Mega at some point. That's why my post is structured as it was. Obviously they're pushing z-moves here, but they know better than to just ignore mega stones... This is different than Got Talent, which cannot exist at this current moment... the mega stones are known to exist within the games. Of course, that does not mean that I'm calling for all of them to be released now. We'll simply have to wait for Pokémon Bank to become compatible with Generation 7, and then a few months afterwards, decide what to do from there collectively.

Edit: I find it ironic that the only unavailable Mega Stone I even mentioned directly is Pidgeotite. The rest of what I mentioned are perfectly usable, even now.
Also, there's a very good reason why I abstained... since I WANT those broken threats out of here, I felt like it would be foolish to judge Creeselia on the merits of taking them. Also, I haven't been convinced yet one way or the other. I want to judge it on the what the rest of the meta has to handle it. Having only the broken stuff be checks doesn't mean it isn't broken... (Obviously, this is not the case. Just a hypothetical)

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

i never said that ice wasn't a bad offensive typing, i said defensive. While Kyube destroys a lot of stuff, it can also be destroyed by some stuff. OK it gets roost and substitute, but that leaves you completely walled by Magearna if you run both and if you run sub but not roost you get worn down quickly.

Cobalion gets Quick Attack to circuvent its lackluster Speed, so Pheromosa doesn't revenge kill it at all. Kartana doesn't wall Cobalion hello, it gets 2HKOed by Return after a Swords Dance while Kartana cannot really do much back since it resists both its STAB moves. To say that, i'm pretty sure you NEVER played Cobalion.

i might have been wrong on Genesect though, Techno Blast kind of hurt Pdon and Hippo, but Pdon can ko it with lava Plume and Hippowdon can just click Stone Edge, not to mention Genesect now takes 50% on stealth rock so it doesn't come when it wants.

Manaphy is really good yeah, but i don't find it banworthy for now.

i never said Dragonite was bad, i say it was ok compared to other behemoths that are still here (Kyube, Regigigas etc...)

Don't say i never played Mix and Mega cause you misunderstood half of what i said.

Again, who cares about defensive?? That's almost irrelevant for an offensive mon. See: Bug/Flying, yet Gene is good, Ice/Dark, yet Weavile is good, etc. The rest of your argument is strange so I won't address it directly but basically it has two sets that are very strong. Like QT said, its only issue is speed, which isn't even that bad.

Not all Coba run Quick Attack and it's very easy to scout. Flying resists are everywhere in the current meta due to Gene/DNite being common and I pointed out Kartana and Phero bcz Kartana can rk it, if it's weakened to ~40, with Sacred Sword, while Pheromosa can do so if it lacks Quick Attack. There are also plenty of other mons who can run the +40 speed stones that easily defeat Cobalion, which was the main point I was trying to convey.

All you need is a little chip damage for +1 Techno Blast (from Download, which is the boost it usually gets from PDon) to OHKO. And Hippo like, never runs Stone Edge, usually the set is four of Rocks/Toxic/Slack Off/EQ/ww. Hazard support is soooo easy with many good bouncers (Sablenite, Absolite) and Defog is so easy to put on a team, e.g. Zapdos or Arceus who are good on basically all teams. Also if you aren't running U-Turn most of the time you're just bashing stuff until they die. And it can't take many hits anyway with such a poor defensive typing (assuming Pinsirite, if it's Metagrossite it can come in on rocks 8 times so w/e).

I am simply assuming that we'll get a full version of Mix and Mega at some point. That's why my post is structured as it was. Obviously they're pushing z-moves here, but they know better than to just ignore mega stones... This is different than Got Talent, which cannot exist at this current moment... the mega stones are known to exist within the games. Of course, that does not mean that I'm calling for all of them to be released now. We'll simply have to wait for Pokémon Bank to become compatible with Generation 7, and then a few months afterwards, decide what to do from there collectively.

Edit: I find it ironic that the only unavailable Mega Stone I even mentioned directly is Pidgeotite. The rest of what I mentioned are perfectly usable, even now.
Also, there's a very good reason why I abstained... since I WANT those broken threats out of here, I felt like it would be foolish to judge Creeselia on the merits of taking them. Also, I haven't been convinced yet one way or the other. I want to judge it on the what the rest of the meta has to handle it. Having only the broken stuff be checks doesn't mean it isn't broken... (Obviously, this is not the case. Just a hypothetical)

As far as I'm aware, the unreleased mega stones are both A) not available in sun/moon and B) aren't transferable via pokebank so I doubt we'll get them this gen.

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

What the metagame might look like in the future doesn't matter. If a bunch of Cresselia answers get released, we might resuspect, but you should be judging based on the current metagame rather than theorymonning.

But I am actually basing this off of the current metagame... and not using Genesect, Regigigas, Kyruem-Black, and Pheromosa as arguments for or against Cresselia's case. For something to actually be balanced, it shouldn't just be easy for the higher-ups to handle... It should be manageable at several levels, just like real food webs are.
I know for a fact that we can use stuff like Blue Orb Scizor, Pinsirite Zygarde, and Red Orb Raikou in the current metagame. We can test out pretty much everything in a standard Mix and Mega battle to see how Cresselia fares in different situations.

But I want this post to not just be a dumb rambling about future and present and theroymonning and stuff. Let's talk about the other thing that was on my mind after the suspect: Hippowdon.

I had some interesting times using this sand hippo, and it's worth talking about. I was using a Sablenite Hippo, and as expected, it took many, many hits. Including ones from Regigigas, which is not a small feat. Heck, it could stall Regigigas if it wanted to! But alas, I put both Stealth Rocks and Roar on the hippo. (Slack Off is incredibly good, and a must when using Hippowdon) While Roar was super helpful for dealing with physical threats that got too dangerous, you can't do much when the only thing left flies. And, of course, it can't really handle Special attacks too well. And thinking back on it... Hippowdon and Cresselia have more in common than you would think. Take a look:

Hippowdon @ Sablenite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Slack Off
- Rock Slide/Toxic/Ice Fang/Roar/Thunder Fang

Honestly, 108/168/122 bulk is not too much of a far cry from the bulk of Cresselia, even if the special bulk is lacking in this comparison. And they can both boost up to become a win condition. But what Hippowdon lacks in bulk of the moon duck, it grants in more power and better recovery. While thankfully balanced by Water types in general being a bane to its existence, if you eliminate the special threats to Hippowdon, and find a good opportunity to set up, it plays pretty much like a physical Cress at that point, and just sweeps. I think this is a good corollary, but I can't really put my finger on what this stands for. Perhaps the fact that Mix and Mega is trained to handle such threats...? (yes I just posted a curse set seriously, have at my guts if you want them...)

 

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

Yo, Jajoken, thanks for full convincing me about the whole suspect I feel really confident in what I chose now. As a note, Gyaradosite Skarmory might just be one of the most non-sequitur things to pop up in Mix and Mega's history. I mean, it does beat Cresselia, but now has a double Fighting weakness. Also, now I really wish Nihilego's primary typing was Poison... even so, Gyaradosite on that sounds incredibly cool as a lead and a stallbreaker... I might try that one day. And one day, it will also get access to Amphaosite, which is when it will become really cool...

As for the edited suspect post of my own, check around the middle of the previous page. I determined some of the previous apex threats can handle Cresselia, and pretty handily, too. There's a ton of cool ideas still lying in wait here, and I'm not going to let a limited view ban stuff we don't need to.
(But we're still going to bring some of the stuff that came in here so rudely right back where they belong... I hope.)