But it depends what you want it to do. If Porygon2 takes out the opposing Salamence, that may be enough for another of your Pokemon to sweep.
And if you're bothered by it not having enough health left after being in once, get a Wisher.
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The Mighty Duck (Porygon2 Discussion)
- Thread starter MetaNite
- Start date
And if you're bothered by it not having enough health left after being in once, get a Wisher.
Well isn't the reason it stays in UU or NU or whatever its in right now because there are not many good abilities to trace in that tier so its main strength is not very useful. It seem to me kind of like Exegutor, who does pretty well in Ubers, but fails in OU and is decent in UU, also mainly because of ability.
I've tried to shoehorn Pory2 in plenty of my OU teams with mostly failed attempts. The problem is, outside of several pokemon it directly counters or gets 4x weaknesses on, Pory2 is incapable of killing many things. It doesn't have great Special Attack and has poor speed, so it does too little offensively.
The only time it was useful was for spreading paralysis around via Twave. Teams slowed down by Twave open up slower hard hitters. MixMence, a staple in many of my teams, was often the benefactor of the opponent's paralysis, as it allowed Mence to strike down the likes of Gengar and non refresh latias.
The only time it was useful was for spreading paralysis around via Twave. Teams slowed down by Twave open up slower hard hitters. MixMence, a staple in many of my teams, was often the benefactor of the opponent's paralysis, as it allowed Mence to strike down the likes of Gengar and non refresh latias.
Porygon2 is pretty good when used correctly, I must say that being to being able to simultaneously counter Heatran, Salamence, Gyarados, Flygon etc. is amazing, except you need to switch in to them to be able to beat them. Also capable of restoring health with Recover, I am not complaining about Porygon2 anytime soon.
Well its job in the metagame is basically to dispatch Gyarados, Salamence and the like. Outside of that it can give out some status, and slow down foes, people only use it if they don't have a counter to Gyarados, Salamence, Heatran, etc. It doesn't have a speed of a sweeper like porygonZ, in stall, offensive combos can take it out, and with the only thing being status which it contributes in a stall team, there are better choices... =/
Try and shoehorn ANYTHING onto a team and it won't work.
I just mentioned in upsetting the metagame, I think Porygon2 is best picked as a 6th member. Pick it if you need to counter (or want a back-up counter to) some of the things it counters.
Fairly good in OU, meh in UU, lol in Ubers. /end Just kidding. Porygon 2's awesomeness is proportionate to Gyarados' usage stat.
Also, if you switch this thing into Salamence and get pwned by Draco Meteor, you deserve it. lol p2 =/= Salamence Counter. Check? Sure. Counter? No. I respectfully disagree with the Metanite's comment about it being ok for P2 to get murdered by mixmence "because it will be then susceptible to scizor."
Mixmence's job is to wall break, and if it kills your P2-- guess what, it just did its job. :P If you are using Mixmence, you are using Heatran, Flygon, or any number of other sweepers who would love to see that first defensive link in P2 hit the discard bin. After which, you likely don't give a damn if Mixmence goes down.
For instance, Mixmence kills P-2. You come in with Scizor. I switch Gyara into Scizor, and now you have to deal with my Gyara having no P-2. :/
Also, if you switch this thing into Salamence and get pwned by Draco Meteor, you deserve it. lol p2 =/= Salamence Counter. Check? Sure. Counter? No. I respectfully disagree with the Metanite's comment about it being ok for P2 to get murdered by mixmence "because it will be then susceptible to scizor."
Mixmence's job is to wall break, and if it kills your P2-- guess what, it just did its job. :P If you are using Mixmence, you are using Heatran, Flygon, or any number of other sweepers who would love to see that first defensive link in P2 hit the discard bin. After which, you likely don't give a damn if Mixmence goes down.
For instance, Mixmence kills P-2. You come in with Scizor. I switch Gyara into Scizor, and now you have to deal with my Gyara having no P-2. :/
Just my luck, the one time I decide to take another peek at Smogon, there is a Porygon2 thread up and running.
I just have to get a few words in edgewise.
-Porygon2 is not and never will be a reliable counter to Salamence. Two hits from Draco Meteor from even weaker variants will take down Porygon2 regardless of your EV investment. Not to mention a +1 LO Outrage almost guaranteed OHKOs P2, so even against physical Salamence, you're fucked.
-Porygon2 can't handle Salamence, Lucario, Scizor, or any of the popular sweepers anymore. What it can do, is cover some of the more obscure weaknesses your team has. I used to shoehorn in Porygon2 into my teams because it does a damn good job at covering things you've forgotten. Your opponent sends in generic sweeper X, but your team is so overspecialized against the top 10 threats, you don't have anything on it. Enter Porygon2. He takes a big hit, but paralyzes the sweeper, and easily recovers it off later. Porygon2 isn't "the best" at anything (except stopping gyarados) but it's "good enough" to get you out of those difficult situations.
-All that gravity and trick room bullshit is a waste of time. If you're using Porygon2, you need Recover, then you need Thunderbolt and Ice Beam. That's three slots gone, and the last one should be a move to deter things that unSTABed boltbeam can't... say Toxic, Thunder Wave, or maybe HP Ground for heatran and magnezone. Steer clear of gimmicks, trust me. It's only a surprise the first time, and basing your team on surprises is risky at it's best.
TL;DR, Porygon2 is like carrying a paperclip in your pocket. Most days, it won't be of any use to you, but maybe someday it will save your ass and you'll be glad you hung onto it.
Oh, and hi Chris, I see you're still a badge-less nobody. I'm sure ripping on users past will make everyone notice you.
I just have to get a few words in edgewise.
-Porygon2 is not and never will be a reliable counter to Salamence. Two hits from Draco Meteor from even weaker variants will take down Porygon2 regardless of your EV investment. Not to mention a +1 LO Outrage almost guaranteed OHKOs P2, so even against physical Salamence, you're fucked.
-Porygon2 can't handle Salamence, Lucario, Scizor, or any of the popular sweepers anymore. What it can do, is cover some of the more obscure weaknesses your team has. I used to shoehorn in Porygon2 into my teams because it does a damn good job at covering things you've forgotten. Your opponent sends in generic sweeper X, but your team is so overspecialized against the top 10 threats, you don't have anything on it. Enter Porygon2. He takes a big hit, but paralyzes the sweeper, and easily recovers it off later. Porygon2 isn't "the best" at anything (except stopping gyarados) but it's "good enough" to get you out of those difficult situations.
-All that gravity and trick room bullshit is a waste of time. If you're using Porygon2, you need Recover, then you need Thunderbolt and Ice Beam. That's three slots gone, and the last one should be a move to deter things that unSTABed boltbeam can't... say Toxic, Thunder Wave, or maybe HP Ground for heatran and magnezone. Steer clear of gimmicks, trust me. It's only a surprise the first time, and basing your team on surprises is risky at it's best.
TL;DR, Porygon2 is like carrying a paperclip in your pocket. Most days, it won't be of any use to you, but maybe someday it will save your ass and you'll be glad you hung onto it.
Oh, and hi Chris, I see you're still a badge-less nobody. I'm sure ripping on users past will make everyone notice you.
You forgot about the whole POINT of Porygon2. When you switch it in it traces Intimidate, which activates, meaning Salamence isn't +1 any more, and Outrage does 228-269 against the standard defensive duck.
You are caught between two places though. If Mence has Danced, it still outpseeds and 2HKOs Porygon2, meaning the duck's only good as a revenge killer (and many things do that better). If Mence hasn't danced, you're gambling on it not Draco Meteoring when you bring in Porygon2. Hopefully you might have some idea what they're likely to do, based on what they brought Mence in on or their general play style. A risky counter is better than no counter at all.
I don't think you'd let Salamence get two DDs. The biggest reason why Porygon2 is seen at all in OU is because of Trace. Tracing Intimidate after 1 DD means there's no net attack boost.
Porygon2 was definitely never meant to handle Lucario and Scizor. Like I just explained, it beats physical Salamence as long as you don't let it Dragon Dance twice. There tend to be a lot more MixMences now though, which makes Porygon2 a really dangerous switch-in. It doesn't counter many Pokemon, but it can beat some Pokemon every time, as long as it switches in to Trace their ability (for example, Gyarados, Heatran, and Vaporeon).
Those who use Porygon2 on your team with Gravity or Trick Room [should] have teams based around it- and it definitely isn't a waste of one moveslot in that case. Why use Thunder Wave if you can get a speed advantage over Gyarados/Salamence with Trick Room, and use the remaining turns to attempt a sweep because pretty much all of your Pokemon outspeed the opponent's until the effect wears off. I'm not saying that Trick Room and Gravity are great strategies, but Porygon2 is an extremely effective user of them, and has a niche as likely the best Trick Room supporter in UU, a tier that Trick Room is very effective in.
One more thing I think is important to consider is that Celebi, Latias and HP Electric Vappy are almost perfect Gyarados counters (if you can't figure out a way to deal with Bounce, you deserve to get swept), and there are a number of reliable checks (Zapdos, Starmie, Rotom, Magnezone, Bulky Water etc.). Gyara is certainly deserving of a top spot in OU, but it is far from the title of hardest sweeper to counter.
I completely forgot about tracing intimidate, damn. For some reason I remembered intimidate when considering Gyarados but not Salamence. I'm still getting 59-70% with a +0 Outrage, which isn't exactly great (a minimum of 71% damage if you add in SR) but it's definitely better than the hopeless scenario I had in mind.
This same fast paced metagame is also why I said that using set-up moves on Porygon2 is a waste of space. Switching in, using the gimmick move (trick room, gravity, whatever) and switching out is three turns, and let's be honest, nowadays giving your opponent even one free turn is a serious risk. Also realize there is a very good chance Porygon2 won't survive the set-up. Is wasting a team slot for one move worth it? Hardly. That is why people generally put Trick Room on Pokemon that can either take the beating (Slowbro, Bronzong) or explode afterwards, evening the score.
You're missing the point, I was merely listing the currently popular sweepers. I am fully aware Porygon2 has no business fighting those Pokemon. The idea I was trying to convey is that the Pokemon Porygon2 is good at dealing with are no longer popular. The game is heavily biased towards dealing heavy damage at the moment. All the game's walls are easily 2HKOed by the most common sweepers, Porygon2 included. Back when things were a little slower, Porygon2 could actually weather a decent beating and get something done. Now, you don't have that luxury, and the best Pokemon to switch him into are considerably more obscure. I'd consider myself lucky if my opponent had even one Pokemon I could switch into safely. It's a harsh new world for Porygon2.
This same fast paced metagame is also why I said that using set-up moves on Porygon2 is a waste of space. Switching in, using the gimmick move (trick room, gravity, whatever) and switching out is three turns, and let's be honest, nowadays giving your opponent even one free turn is a serious risk. Also realize there is a very good chance Porygon2 won't survive the set-up. Is wasting a team slot for one move worth it? Hardly. That is why people generally put Trick Room on Pokemon that can either take the beating (Slowbro, Bronzong) or explode afterwards, evening the score.
I definitely agree with the last sentence of that, and I only pointed out that Porygon2 obviously couldn't handle Scizor and Lucario because you said "anymore", but I guess you used that referring to most sweepers, and just cited those two Pokemon and Salamence as examples. At the same time, because of the limited amount of Pokemon that Porygon2 counters, I don't think leaving it on your team because it may come in handy a few games from now is a good idea. To me, Porygon2 was almost exclusively used to address very specific threats, but address them so well that a team wouldn't need another dedicated counter for Pokemon such as Gyarados and Heatran. Using it would free up a team slot, so maybe instead of Skarmory and Blissey, you'd use just one Pokemon to cover Gyarados and Heatran, but Porygon2 isn't very useful outside of that. That works for some teams that are troubled by only a few Pokemon that Porygon2 can handle, but most of the time you want something that can fare well against as many threats as possible.
Like I said, Trick Room on Porygon2 is much more common (and useful) in UU. Not only can it hold its own against almost all non-Fighting type Pokemon that don't use boosting moves, but with it being faster than almost everything in Trick Room, it can be a bulky sweeper with the great coverage given by Ice Beam and Thunderbolt, along with the ability to Recover before the opponent attacks. Slowbro can play a similar role, but its stats and typing are only suited to wall physical attacks, and Porygon2's Trace ability helps it switch in and make an impact even if Trick Room isn't up yet.
I've used Porygon2 when the metagame was slower pased, and i still use it now... i utilize it just as good, and it still works... there are a lot more mix sweepers now...but then again, you wouldn't leave it in on a draco meteor, thats like leaving blissey in on a close combat....you dont do it
but all in all...porygon2 is still just as useful as it was
but all in all...porygon2 is still just as useful as it was
Porygon2 is so useful because it is weak only to one type(fighting)and has alround good stats defensively AND a great movepool.His movepool is what has set him apart from other walls.He is a great option for all teams.
I would contend that if you can find Leppa Berry on the Team Builder on Shoddy [I can't. Has it been removed?], this set works well for eternal stall after you've managed to KO the opponent's counters to this.<Snip>
Porygon2 @ LeftoversAbility: Trace
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpA
~ Thunderbolt
~ Ice Beam
~ Recover
~ Thunder Wave / Toxic / Hidden Power Ground
<Snip>
Porygon2 @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Trace
Nature: BoldAbility: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpA
~ Thunderbolt
~ Ice Beam
~ Recover
~ Recycle
Recycle and Leppa Berry allow for an eternal stall. When Recover is out, Leppa kicks in. Recycle the Leppa, then continue. Just make sure you use the Leppa Berry to restore the Recycle PP when you need to, and unless the opponent gets a critical hit (very likely for eternal stall), poison and burn from your other pokemon will destroy your opponents. Or, you could PP stall and force them to struggle. BoltBeam is simply to counter Salamence and Gyarados, perhaps also Gliscor.
On the offensive side of the spectrum, the ability to weaken most Pokemon will allow for you to have an easier sweep.
The idea is to get rid of those pokemon first, then stall with Porygon2, not the other way around. Once the threats are gone, then it's smooth sailing. The principle is similar to that of getting rid of the opponent's Gliscor before your Lucario Sweep
IMO Leppa+Recycle simply isn't worth giving up a move slot and Leftovers for. Lefties is free recovery and you still have Twave/Toxic to cripple things. Twave gets you free turns 25% of the time and Toxic drastically reduces the time you have to stall for which is preferable than just constantly recovering as they take no damage.
Trying to stall for a long time with P2 is a terrible idea as a crit is going to ruin your fun sooner or later. Even Lugia has to watch out for crits and it has Pressure and Reflect to help ease things.
Trying to stall for a long time with P2 is a terrible idea as a crit is going to ruin your fun sooner or later. Even Lugia has to watch out for crits and it has Pressure and Reflect to help ease things.
Did anyone mention that Porygon2 needs proper team support to work out
nicely? I think Aromatherapy is a must, and wish could help too, just to get porygon2 back on the run.
To counter Mence, have one pokemon to counter the Mixed set, and use
porygon2 to counter the DD set. Just scout properly. Porygon2 can wall
Choice gengars in shadow ball and give you a free chance to T-wave, set-up
or Toxic.
I use a Shaymin to lure in some Heatrans, mostly killing them with an earth
power. If I see it's a scarftran (which outspeeds shaymin then) I have a
surefire way to cripple one of my opponents pokemon, just by predicting the
more then obvious switch-out/in. If it stays, it will be paralysed, which makes scarftran useless.
Vaporeon and Jolteon get walled endlessly by Porygon2, even getting 25% health on the switch in.
If you're running toxic, you can just wore down the Jolteon and Vaporeon.
The only tier porygon2 fits in is the OU tier, I guess.
It requires so much support to make 'Duck' work, but it's worth it. :D
PS: sorry for my horrible English.
nicely? I think Aromatherapy is a must, and wish could help too, just to get porygon2 back on the run.
To counter Mence, have one pokemon to counter the Mixed set, and use
porygon2 to counter the DD set. Just scout properly. Porygon2 can wall
Choice gengars in shadow ball and give you a free chance to T-wave, set-up
or Toxic.
I use a Shaymin to lure in some Heatrans, mostly killing them with an earth
power. If I see it's a scarftran (which outspeeds shaymin then) I have a
surefire way to cripple one of my opponents pokemon, just by predicting the
more then obvious switch-out/in. If it stays, it will be paralysed, which makes scarftran useless.
Vaporeon and Jolteon get walled endlessly by Porygon2, even getting 25% health on the switch in.
If you're running toxic, you can just wore down the Jolteon and Vaporeon.
The only tier porygon2 fits in is the OU tier, I guess.
It requires so much support to make 'Duck' work, but it's worth it. :D
PS: sorry for my horrible English.
Your English isn't bad.
I disagree that he needs team support. Sure, SR is useful to hurt mence, but he doesn't need Wish support (Recover)
Anyway, I tried him out and he is awesome. Killed a Suicune, Paralyzed 2 pokemon and killed mence, all in one battle.
I disagree that he needs team support. Sure, SR is useful to hurt mence, but he doesn't need Wish support (Recover)
Anyway, I tried him out and he is awesome. Killed a Suicune, Paralyzed 2 pokemon and killed mence, all in one battle.
Wish can give you a switch in and recover at the same time, I find it hard to switch in, take a hit at 30% and recover then. (unless you're switching in on Vaporeon, Jolteon or Heatran). However, aromatherapy is really necessary.
And yes, he is awesome :D
Team support and synergy are musts. Without proper team support and synergy, any Lucario or Machamp or Breloom or Scizor will pose a huge threat. I should now, having lost Porygon2 to fighting attacks before (didn't realize the threat then/needed a sacrifice).