And yet, its best counter (Ludicolo) came during the same generation. I don't think Gamefreak has a certain pattern, I mean in Generation I all three starters were perfectly balanced; yet in DPP Charizard can beat both Venusaur and Blastoise with a simple SunnyBeam set. In Generation II, Typhlosion could beat Feraligatr with ThunderPunch (who couldn't OHKO with Surf) and Meganium with Flamethrower; yet in DPP Feraligatr has physical Waterfall to balance the trio. In Generation III the three were completely balanced, and still are. Generation IV was balanced by virtue of typing, but Infernape can beat Torterra with Fire Blast and Empoleon with Close Combat. Generation V could give us any number of these scenarios or a completely new one (like grass or water dominating for the first time).
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Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.
- Thread starter Firestorm
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That hardly makes up for lack of Dragon-resist and a x4 weakness.
Yeah, I think GF has gotten that the starters' final forms do not need to be balanced as by the time you're using them, you're going to have more pokemon anyway. Instead, they focus on balancing the starters' first forms and making the final forms actually usable.
Yeah, that's totally the case. I mean, it's not like the starters are supposed to have advantages over each other. Remember back when Venusaur could reliably kill both Blastoise and Charizard? When Typhlosion could get that sweet STAB Super Effective on Feraligatr? When Swampert would laugh in Sceptile's face? When Torterra was twice as fast as Infernape?
Those were the days
Those were the days
Mijumaru can still possibly learn Ice Beam whether it is a secondary ice type or not so yeah, that secondary type would sound good on paper but not when it comes down to versatility and power to back up that said versatility since that is what a good starter will need in order to be worth something nowadays. There will always be a few starters that will stand out from the rest though like Charizard and Swampert to name a few simply because of their raw power and move pool.
I doubt , cause from the name "Shell Blade" you can really see that "Blade" must be physical , I'll throw my gamecart(Once I get it lol)If I find that he's based around special stats.
The last one doesn't work... >_>
As stated, Infernape owns both other gen4 starters.
Gen1 was ok balanced, gen2 had perfect balance, gen3 was ok again and gen4 was screwed up. How do we go on from that?
EDIT: Also, other people here do not get your irony.
I know that; in fact I'm pretty sure every single water type (barring Magikarp) can learn Ice Beam. Besides, I wasn't even talking about a secondary ice type, I'm not sure why you quoted me.
EDIT: I disagree, Sandstreamer. Typhlosion owned both of the other starters, not quite like Infernape, but still. Gen 1 was well balanced, Gen 2 was poor, Gen 3 was perfect, Gen 4 was terrible.
I think that he was talking about a Torterra that would be holding Choice Scarf in that case since that is the most believable way to outspeed Infernape with a Torterra outside of using moves like Tailwind or Trick Room. Meganium could have been better though.
That must have been a mistake then, my bad. As I was trying to say, another way of saying what I've been trying to say was that the ice typing would be wanted but it would not be needed since it can learn those said ice moves with or without the added type IMO.
I'd much rather it learned Ice Beam, Blizzard and Aurora Beam by level up, regardless of the typing or rest of the move pool.
I'd be nice having a starter with access to those easily.
Typholsion never got STAB on Thunderpunch.
Anyway, I don't think Grass/Flying would be that bad.I mean, you can make a Grass/Flying that's Uber with a BST of 600. The Grass starter final evo will probably have a BST of about 530, so I see no reason why it couldn't be OU (not that it even needs to be, as a Venusaur fan, it being #1 in UU makes me happier than I would be if it was #45 in OU).
Could nobody sense the sarcasm in that post? He obviously meant the starters are meant to be balanced, because all of those points were ridiculous.
Thank you. Glad to see someone caught that
Who wouldn't but you need to remember the added weaknesses that could possibly hinder its progress however, that's what bugs me about this secondary typing since it is adding more weaknesses without doing much to rectify them. I just hope that Ice Beam will be easier to afford in this one though.
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I completely agree. I think that the new generation will have starters that are more balanced against each other than the previous batch...
Same here, I used to be disappointed that Venusaur just couldn't quite hack it in OU, but in UU, I've come to love Venusaur more than I ever would have in OU.
What I don't understand is why people theorymoning all these new Pokemon consistently want them to have top tier typings and stats - it's not going to happen! Not EVERY Pokemon can be OU, and that's the way it should be; there's nothing wrong if Smugleaf does wind up being a UU Grass/Flying type, in fact, he could be extremely powerful if he did take that evolutionary path.
No, I mean, I don't mind a Water/Fighting pokemon. In fact, it would be interesting for my Ice team.
I could fully accept it however, if it got two out of those three ice moves at least in its level-up move pool. (believeable as Sea Otters only are really found in cold/icy waters)
I could fully accept it however, if it got two out of those three ice moves at least in its level-up move pool. (believeable as Sea Otters only are really found in cold/icy waters)
There was a pattern to that: Typhlosion had Thunderpunch, Meganium EQ and Feraligatr the obvious Icebeam/Blizzard. Also, according to my calculations, GSC Feraligatr will NOT be 2HKOd by Typhlosions Thunderpunch.
Thus, balance never achieved again. lol
EDIT: I mean, they even managed to get rid of the traditional water inbalance: In RBY, Blastioise at least learned moves to hit both other starters for super effective damage, while Venusaur could do just about nothing to Charizard and Charizard couldn't do much eiter (until it got Fly, then it had a neutral stab against Blastoise).
Gen3 was a bit better than this, as they balanced the traditional "Water pokemon get ice coverage" rule by making Sceptile faster and able to OHKO Swampert under (almost) any circumstances. But then again, having a 4x weakness brings more imbalance than Charizard's 4x resistance. And Blaziken had at least a secondary STAB against Swampert. So, yeah, they're balanced but nowhere near gen2.
And in Gen4, obviously, GF didn't care anymore...
Same here. Hopefully, it could learn those moves sooner rather than later if it ever does have those attacks in its natural move pool.
IIRC, Vacuum Wave was translated as Vacuum Blade from the Japanese name.
Yeah, I agree. I mean, the starters could be as good as Swampert or Infernape, so we are talking about a potentially very influencial Pokemon here, as far as Smogon is concerned, but we could easily get another Meganium. It doesn't really matter. The beauty about the Smogon tier system, is that most Pokemon should have at least one tier where they can be useful, so we needn't worry too much (just as long as we actually get more than 2 usage tiers finished in generation 5).
AH you're right, 154/373 maximum. Still, why wasn't Gen III perfectly balanced? Sceptile had Leaf Blade for Swampert, Swampert had Earthquake/Muddy Water for Blaziken, and Blaziken had Blaze Kick for Sceptile. Sceptile couldn't OHKO Blaziken with Earthquake, either. To be honest, I don't really mind if this generation is balanced. I loved the challenge of Generation III and using Sceptile or Swampert, because I had to catch something like Taillow or Wingull lest I lose to my rival under the Mauville Bridge.
OK, I guess I'm confused about what you all mean by "balanced". Do you mean they're all approximately equal against the rest of the metagame, or against each other? Hopefully it's the former because Sceptile and Swampert are not equal against each other. I was responding to a person saying that if Tsutaaja ends up being grass/dragon, Mijumaru would have to have a secondary ice typing to balance it out, implying that "balance" refers to an approximately equal matchup against each other, not against other pokémon. Which doesn't make sense.
Edit: Sorry Intro, didn't see your post.
I kind of want a Dragon-type, just as it's sort of more traditional, but they might do like in RSE, and randomly put in another base 600 that is evolved (Metagross).
But it's the base 600s that nobody seems to be sure what tier they go in (Shaymin-S, Deoxys-E, Garchomp, Manaphy, Latias). I hope they're interesting, if we've got to spend the next few years discussing them!
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