This thing is a troll other than genesecuto with that 98 base speed. seeing how rare scarfgar are this thing scarfed with mixed move will wreak havoc and clean many slower threats and its speed allowed to outspeed many threat (notably things like Ononokusu and if you count Palkia and kingdra outside rain)
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Hydreigon
- Thread starter R.B.G.
- Start date
It can go mixed and become a threat to Bliss.
I noticed Sazado learns TW, is there a chance he could use it effectively? Or it should only remain as a sweeper?
I dont think TW helps much because even with generally good bulk it really dsnt have much going in the support department with no reliable recovery and such.
I used SpecsMence a lot throughout DPPt, even when it became unfashionable to do so, so I am naturally excited by this Pokemon.
Sazandora @ Choice Specs
Modest / Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Earth Power / Surf
Draco Meteor for initial attacking power, Dragon Pulse for late-game reliability, Fire attack for Steels and Earth Power/Surf for Tyranitar and Heatran. Hydra has no room for Dark Pulse on this set.
Pursuit resistance is huge here and is probably the biggest selling point over Salamence - there's nothing more annoying than having Tyranitar come in and OHKO your SpecsMence after the -2 SpA. However, I think Salamence's crucially higher speed, Intimidate, Fighting resistance and unpredictability make him a more effective Choice Specs user than Sazandora. The SpA advantage is sorta negligible because Hydra is under more pressure to run Timid whereas 'Mence can afford to use Modest in which case he'll actually have higher SpA than Hydra. And it's not as if SpecsMence was ever concerned that he wasn't hitting hard enough either...
That said, I love the look and flavor of this Pokemon!
Sazandora @ Choice Specs
Modest / Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Earth Power / Surf
Draco Meteor for initial attacking power, Dragon Pulse for late-game reliability, Fire attack for Steels and Earth Power/Surf for Tyranitar and Heatran. Hydra has no room for Dark Pulse on this set.
Pursuit resistance is huge here and is probably the biggest selling point over Salamence - there's nothing more annoying than having Tyranitar come in and OHKO your SpecsMence after the -2 SpA. However, I think Salamence's crucially higher speed, Intimidate, Fighting resistance and unpredictability make him a more effective Choice Specs user than Sazandora. The SpA advantage is sorta negligible because Hydra is under more pressure to run Timid whereas 'Mence can afford to use Modest in which case he'll actually have higher SpA than Hydra. And it's not as if SpecsMence was ever concerned that he wasn't hitting hard enough either...
That said, I love the look and flavor of this Pokemon!
I think Sazandora has a lot to offer over SpecsMence. If SpecsMence does run Modest, you'll squeeze 350 Special Attack out of its base 110 and 299 Speed out of its base 100 Speed with an EV split of 252/252. Sazandora gets 349 Special Attack (the single point doesn't matter) and 324 Speed (those extra 25 points matter one hell of a lot). Therefore even if Sazandora is under more pressure to run Timid, it's still getting matching or higher stats than SpecsMence in all the areas that matter besides HP (where the 3 base stat point difference is offset by the 10 base stat point difference in Defence/Special Defence). Arguably, SpecsMence is only better than Sazandora if it exploits its Speed advantage and runs Timid, which makes SpecsMence quite a bit weaker than Sazandora and only 4 points faster (though it's true that speed tying with other base 100s is pretty huge).
Also, I don't think it's fair to say that SpecsMence is less predictable than Sazandora. If we're being honest, SpecsMence has 5 viable moves for a Choice Specs set, those being Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Fire Blast/Flamethrower, Hydro Pump and Hidden Power (which is a pretty rubbish option). Sazandora however can choose from those five options (with Surf instead of Hydro Pump) as well as Earth Power, Dark Pulse and even Focus Blast. With a more usable special movepool, I'd say Sazandora is the less predictable one; I guess one can assume both will always run Meteor/Dragon Pulse/Fire move/Filler-which-really-needs-to-hit-Heatran, but Salamence has only two choices for its filler whereas Sazandora has four that can hit Heatran (EP, Surf, HP, Focus Blast) as well as the Dark STAB.
On a slightly seperate note, what does everyone think of Focus Blast on Sazandora? On Specs it hits T-tar, Blissey and Heatran really hard and should OHKO Tyranitar, though accuracy is a big issue and Heatran dies to Surf/Earth Power anyway.
And on a completely different note, is there much point running max Speed on Sazandora? I guess it'll depend on how popular Ononokusu (147 Atk/97 Spd Dragon) is, but I reckon you could drop to 319 Speed to get the jump on Gliscor and chuck the remaining EVs into HP, which might help out when taking resisted hits.
Also, I don't think it's fair to say that SpecsMence is less predictable than Sazandora. If we're being honest, SpecsMence has 5 viable moves for a Choice Specs set, those being Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Fire Blast/Flamethrower, Hydro Pump and Hidden Power (which is a pretty rubbish option). Sazandora however can choose from those five options (with Surf instead of Hydro Pump) as well as Earth Power, Dark Pulse and even Focus Blast. With a more usable special movepool, I'd say Sazandora is the less predictable one; I guess one can assume both will always run Meteor/Dragon Pulse/Fire move/Filler-which-really-needs-to-hit-Heatran, but Salamence has only two choices for its filler whereas Sazandora has four that can hit Heatran (EP, Surf, HP, Focus Blast) as well as the Dark STAB.
On a slightly seperate note, what does everyone think of Focus Blast on Sazandora? On Specs it hits T-tar, Blissey and Heatran really hard and should OHKO Tyranitar, though accuracy is a big issue and Heatran dies to Surf/Earth Power anyway.
And on a completely different note, is there much point running max Speed on Sazandora? I guess it'll depend on how popular Ononokusu (147 Atk/97 Spd Dragon) is, but I reckon you could drop to 319 Speed to get the jump on Gliscor and chuck the remaining EVs into HP, which might help out when taking resisted hits.
Is anyone else going to call theirs Ringo? Look at the first and second forms :naughty:
Is this really true?
I'd argue that the opposite is true. Many of the base 100's will run +speed to at least speed tie with each other. If everything with 100 will be Jolly/Timid, trying to outspeed them with a base 98 would be a lost cause, thus we can run Modest.
Also Dark Pulse and U-turn are decent options.
We can also U-turn on Blissey since counting on Focus Blast to hit twice is extremely unreliable.
I'm also not sure Dragon Pulse is needed. SpecsMence needs Dragon Pulse as a reliable late-game sweeping move because it does NOT have usable secondary STAB.
Dark Pulse is a good STAB and has good neutral coverage.
Agreed, I suppose it is too early to start theorymonning speed tiers.
You misunderstand me. I'm not saying SpecsMence is less predictable than SpecsHydra. I'm saying Salamence is less predictable than Sazandora. If the opponent sends out a Salamence I'm thinking is it DD? Is it mix? Maybe even Specs? If Hydra comes out, it's a lot more likely to be specially based and I can go to a special without much fear of a mixed set (if you're going mixed with Hydra you may as well use 'Mence).
Hmm i'm dreaming of a set like this:
sazando/nigslammer @ Life Orb
Mild nature
180 Atk / 128 Sp.Atk / 200 Speed
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast/Flamethrower
- Head Smash/Crunch
- Earthquake
Head Smash takes a crap on Bliss, and is more powerful than a STAB Crunch, and has better coverage with Earthquake. I honestly do not see much countering this at all.
sazando/nigslammer @ Life Orb
Mild nature
180 Atk / 128 Sp.Atk / 200 Speed
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast/Flamethrower
- Head Smash/Crunch
- Earthquake
Head Smash takes a crap on Bliss, and is more powerful than a STAB Crunch, and has better coverage with Earthquake. I honestly do not see much countering this at all.
This looks pretty bad to me. Why do we want to Head Smash Blissey and kill ourselves with recoil?
If you're going to go mixed at all use Outrage, but I dont like turning this into a worse MixMence regardless.
lol
A Head Smash on Blissey could do as much as 357 damage in recoil. Plus LO recoil. That's be sorta like using Explosion, which is commonly used to check Blissey. Might not be a terrible idea.
A Head Smash on Blissey could do as much as 357 damage in recoil. Plus LO recoil. That's be sorta like using Explosion, which is commonly used to check Blissey. Might not be a terrible idea.
I'd be using it as a wallbreaker, Blissey is an extremely prominent check to Sazando in general, to me if it takes out Blissey it has done its job.
Head Smash without STAB doesn't even come close to OHKOing Blissey, so it won't even do what you're trying to do. You'll just take an assload of recoil and still not kill her.
It was just a poorly thought-out set. Of all the ways of dealing with Blissey (U-turn, Cheer Up + Outrage, or even CB Sazando), Head Smash is about the worst thing you can possibly do.
It was just a poorly thought-out set. Of all the ways of dealing with Blissey (U-turn, Cheer Up + Outrage, or even CB Sazando), Head Smash is about the worst thing you can possibly do.
After firing off a choice specs draco meteor, blissey will be around 50% likely (going after latios memories) so it's pretty much forced to softboiled so you can switch tyranitar/axe-head/whatever in for free to wear it down. That to me looks like a pretty nice wallbreaker.
Also, for those arguing modest > timid, remember that timid let's him outspeed a lot of things in the 90's that are positive, as well as neutral 100's including mixmence unless it chooses to run nearly max speed. So while speed tiers are still undecided, timid is still a viable option.
Also, for those arguing modest > timid, remember that timid let's him outspeed a lot of things in the 90's that are positive, as well as neutral 100's including mixmence unless it chooses to run nearly max speed. So while speed tiers are still undecided, timid is still a viable option.
I think this will definitely manage with a Modest nature. Not many notable Pokemon sit around the 90-95 Speed tier, Lucario and Roserade being the only reasonably good ones (and Roserade isn't doing much to Sazando without HP Ice). Plus the added damage output is always welcome.
On a different note, its base form is adorable. =P Its PokeDex entries sound pretty nasty, too.
On a different note, its base form is adorable. =P Its PokeDex entries sound pretty nasty, too.
why would i want to be locked into outrage, if at all possible? U-Turn is all fine and dandy but it doesnt beat blissey at all, and it wastes a valuable moveslot which could be much better used to check other threats. Head Smash isnt the best option, I agree after looking back and calcing, but calling it the worst thing you can possibly do? how about using any other special attack on it? Don't talk out of your ass.
Also i've been looking into Pursuit, but considering all of the threats that you would Pursuit are generally faster and pose a serious threat to Sazando, so its going to be pretty limited to a rare Choice Scarf set i think.
It get's U-Turn?
That's a great addition since it's not weak to entry hazards.
Plus this would the only other Dragon to do so?
U-turn is the best utility attack (as in, move that does damage) in the entire game. It allows you to scout your opponent's Dragon-check, do a bit of damage, and send in something to beat their switch-in. It keeps you one step ahead of your opponent, and it eases prediction. You'd be crazy not to run U-turn on any set this guy runs. U-turn + Draco Meteor + Fire Blast + Earth Power seems like his best set, IMO, regardless of item or nature. You can run Timid or Modest, and Choice Specs or Choice Scarf in any combination, and it seems like it'd be useful either way.
I think more than anything the speed this guy runs will be relative to the amount of speed currently being run on axe-dragon (base 97 speed), since one of this thing's biggest selling points would probably be outspeeding and OHKOing / forcing out non-DDed axe-dragons.
I'm curious what people think of running Dark Pulse on Sazandora. Since Dark Pulse and Earth Power together is illegal, one would have to choose between STAB and getting good coverage with Earth Power.
What with all the new users of Justice Heart (+1 Attack when hit by a Dark-type move, used most notably by Terakion and possibly Lucario), I think using Dark Pulse could potentially lead to trouble. On a side note, Tyranitar has to be careful with throwing around its Choice Band/Choice Scarf Crunches as well...
What with all the new users of Justice Heart (+1 Attack when hit by a Dark-type move, used most notably by Terakion and possibly Lucario), I think using Dark Pulse could potentially lead to trouble. On a side note, Tyranitar has to be careful with throwing around its Choice Band/Choice Scarf Crunches as well...
Why pass up perfect coverage just for STAB? It looks like he'll be an effective choice user, and since Dark Pulse doesn't have a huge base power and Draco Meteor already does a shitload to Ghost/Psychic Pokemon, I really don't see why you'd run it. Earth Power + Draco Meteor + Fire Blast is the way to go, IMO. The last move can be anything, but U-turn seems like the most useful.
I agree that Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Earth Power / U-Turn is the best set for Sazando. It has perfect coverage and an excellent utility move in the remaining slot. Taunt could be useful on occasions but I'd generally prefer U-Turn.
As mentioned, Life Orb, Specs and Scarf all work with the set. The speed EVs and nature are hard to judge at this point, as it depends a lot on what the other dragons use.
As mentioned, Life Orb, Specs and Scarf all work with the set. The speed EVs and nature are hard to judge at this point, as it depends a lot on what the other dragons use.