Indeed, I kinda wonder this myself.
It's not what the vids show that causes me doubt. It's the pre-knowledge that bothers me.
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R.I.P. Leads and Scouting
- Thread starter TheMaskedNitpicker
- Start date
It's not what the vids show that causes me doubt. It's the pre-knowledge that bothers me.
I expected it to look like this other then the fact that you would see the other team. I wasn't expecting anything too different, but who's to say really with troll-freaks? I still stand by my previous statements, and I'll have to try it to see if it really feels any different. IMO, the only difference is seeing the pokes, which doesn't bother me. It makes for less guessing, and predicting.
Willingly embracing this change so far.
Playing with hidden teams and revealed teams both have their own merits. Playing with revealed teams has less luck overall and produces interesting mind games but on the other hand, makes gimmick pokes less viable and possible team synergy easier to figure out. Of course, the best scenario would be having revealed teams as an option, so that you could play with both. Overall, I probably prefer having revealed teams because it reduces luck and I find mind games interesting.
This will also encourage a lot of pokemon that are unpredicatble to do well, like lucario or mence. If your opponet sees scizor, it's pretty much garunteed that they're gonna say, gee, my zapdos is gonna be more valuable than my weavile. I'll sac weavile. Wheres with lucario, they say, is it swords dance? should I save my scarfrotom? what if it's specs? When you consider a lot of gen 5 pokes are one-dimensional, this could be a neat balancing feature.
This will hurt the over-hyped Ono.It has 147/60 offensive stats, so you know it will be hitting Physically.
As opposed to Sazando, who looks way less predictable.
I caught this earlier when some one debunked it. Now it's 16 pages long so I can't read it all but the jist looks like it is indeed true and there is little way of turning off seeing all your opponents secrets and him yours.
Ill just throw my support behind all the people condemning this move. Looks like GF wants this to be a kids game and stay like that. Some people like it, so that's cool for them but there is no denying that it removes a skill. It's not prediction as some people think however...
Take the Fire move Vs Siczor with Heatran example. You don't know they have a Heatran or not, you make the move with whatever prediction skills you got, he swithes to a diiferent pokemon who might take it well or not. All you know is he had nothing for the firemove, cool lets spam it. Later he brings the hidden heatran out takes the flash boost, your counters to it are gone now, he won with a better grasp of the big picture... He used STATERGY. Now lets say you know his pokes... He trys the same move, now this situation just makes you ask him "Why didn't you use heatran". How dull and 2 dimentional this Gen could be if this is true.
Mind games and guesswork will remains more or less unchanged, Stratergy however...R.I.P
Ill just throw my support behind all the people condemning this move. Looks like GF wants this to be a kids game and stay like that. Some people like it, so that's cool for them but there is no denying that it removes a skill. It's not prediction as some people think however...
Take the Fire move Vs Siczor with Heatran example. You don't know they have a Heatran or not, you make the move with whatever prediction skills you got, he swithes to a diiferent pokemon who might take it well or not. All you know is he had nothing for the firemove, cool lets spam it. Later he brings the hidden heatran out takes the flash boost, your counters to it are gone now, he won with a better grasp of the big picture... He used STATERGY. Now lets say you know his pokes... He trys the same move, now this situation just makes you ask him "Why didn't you use heatran". How dull and 2 dimentional this Gen could be if this is true.
Mind games and guesswork will remains more or less unchanged, Stratergy however...R.I.P
...Can't a team capable of pulling off multiple strategies be used to confound the opponent into letting one work, or better yet, disguising a plan as another one?
To summarise: a workable strategy in DPP won't be viable in BW. This means that BW is completely devoid of any and all strategy.
This is like saying that any rematch between two people familiar with one anothers' teams in DPP did not require strategy. You're either trying to be facetious or plain overreacting. Of course they did.
Hmmm, maybe I got the word wrong. Maybe I mean Tactics. Yes. Tactics are dead.
Strategy, as regards to pokemon, is used to describe how a particular pokemon is used and how it's meant to work. I'm talking about when you decide to make your move to get an advantage or win, with whatever pokemon you got.
My bad.
I feel like this would make weather v. weather battles terrible. If your opponent sees your Ninetales and you see their Hippowdon or something, and neither is the lead, then neither player is going to want to send out theirs first, because they know the opponent will try to eliminate it any way possible and bring out their weather, basically winning them the game. But then again, if the teams don't bring out their weather inducers, they aren't working as well as they should. It does require strategy, but kind of seems like it'd just make things backwards. Guess I'll just have to abuse Dragon Tail.
That's the reason I stayed out of this thread for so long. 16 pages later make me worry about it. Just hope it's right.
Gotta disagree. I don't rematch people 99% of the time for that very reason. If I do rematch it's because one of us still has most of the team unseen.ShadesOfSolomon said:
This won't kill the game. It just removes a layer from it. A layer that I like. The layer which got me here playing pokemon.
Well, if both sides know the other one's whole team, then you can start to set up your own strategies from turn one, having to think twice or even thrice before making a move, instead of scouting and guessing and second-guessing the whole time during the early- and mid-game, can't you...?
Well, as a player who has used this in Battle Rev quite a bit I can say I don't like it >.> it is stupid. You drain the surprise factor out of the game. and no it doesn't add to the strat of the game. Mind games doesn't = strat.
Early game scouting is the bit I like most. Why should we start the game half way though? Clearly, its a bit you don't like and it's the bit people like me in this thread do.
Guessing plays a part but it's mostly about opportunity cost and how you can get him to reveal while you don't. It's not mind games as such, it's planning ahead with potential as apposed to definite. The more you turn the potential into the definite wins the game. But no, one of the main points is a definite from the start now... so who cares if that skill of the metagame is now completely redundant right?
this defiantly is going to change the metagame, but i wouldn't rule out all strategy just yet, so what if they see a few pokes, it always comes down who can predict, sure mind games will be more viable but im sure the metagame will have its own unique strategy, regardless of this update im still looking forward to gen V battling, defiantly will give competitive battling a new taste
My feelings about the new battle style are very mixed... On one hand, i really like the 3v3 style, as i think it makes stall much less viable, team-making much less stressful, and promotes bulky offense, my favorite play type.
On the other hand, one of my FAVORITE parts of the standard 6v6 that most of us are used to is trying to play around your opponents team; especially when you dont know it. It seems much more of an accomplishment knowing that you played near perfectly, saving just the right pokemon for the end of the match to finish your opponents team. 6v6, IMO, seems much more synergetic, strategy based. (That doesnt mean i'm saying that 3v3 destroys strategy, just hinders it.)
On the other hand, one of my FAVORITE parts of the standard 6v6 that most of us are used to is trying to play around your opponents team; especially when you dont know it. It seems much more of an accomplishment knowing that you played near perfectly, saving just the right pokemon for the end of the match to finish your opponents team. 6v6, IMO, seems much more synergetic, strategy based. (That doesnt mean i'm saying that 3v3 destroys strategy, just hinders it.)
People still aren't reading this?
Because Skarm corrected himself in this thread:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3008998&postcount=74
Not that it matters though, since IR doesn't show teams apparently. Of course, the quirks of it, like whether or not you can use the Rotom forms, etc, still need to be investigated.
I'm pretty sure that vid is from the battle recorder which has zero impact on this discussion.
I thought the following posts tested the FC method which is why this thread is 16 pages long in hate. I had to skim the pages because they were so many. Like i said. Hope it's right.Hiroshimitsu said:
Im guessing the video wasn't sped up Ndota as he kinda seemed to know the other person as it was a friendly matchup and he mainly just sped through most of it. At least thats what I think. (maybe if the other guy would've payed more attention, he would've seen that zoroark and been a bit more careful)
This change is going to lead towards teams whose members are either very versatile, or can cover each other's weaknesses very well. I love how this is gonna get rid of gimmicky teams (gimmicks deserve to fail if they are based on luck and hax, not skill and usefulness).
My primary hope is that this change takes away from the standard sets usually found here on smogon (usually just look a poke up if i don't know its sets or team options, guilty as charged)
This change is going to lead towards teams whose members are either very versatile, or can cover each other's weaknesses very well. I love how this is gonna get rid of gimmicky teams (gimmicks deserve to fail if they are based on luck and hax, not skill and usefulness).
My primary hope is that this change takes away from the standard sets usually found here on smogon (usually just look a poke up if i don't know its sets or team options, guilty as charged)
The community itself can do whatever it wants--the tread doesn't concern that. The question for this thread is what should Shoddy Battle 2 simulate the rules of. Last gen, it simulated the rules of local wireless, as it allows the Rotom forms, Shaymin-S, and Giratina-O. With the changes in local wireless noted in this thread, we'll have to ask that question again, and decide if Shoddy Battle 2 should simulate local wireless with these new mechanics or Infrared, which doesn't.