Volcarona

[Maestro Arena]

If it runs the Bug Buzz, Fire dance/Flamethrower and HP Ground then Charizard and Moltres will resist it and both learn a rock move. HP Water could be a good idea.

I agree. HP Water seems a better option than HP Ground. And while it won´t be as effective as Heatran as Hidden Power Ground, it still is effective. And Heatran usually doesn´t wear Ancientpower...

EDIT: I forgot Gyarados and Dragons. HP Rock then? You would need something else to take care of Heatran but...

 

[GLS]

Looks like a case of pick your hidden power and then pick your team mates to cover what your hidden power does not.

 

[/B/utterfree]

Looks like a case of pick your hidden power and then pick your team mates to cover what your hidden power does not.

^ This.

 

[Blaziken Fan]

Personally, I think this is gonna be amazing. Also, I'd use HP Rock.

 

[Xysion]

I agree. HP Water seems a better option than HP Ground. And while it won´t be as effective as Heatran as Hidden Power Ground, it still is effective. And Heatran usually doesn´t wear Ancientpower...

EDIT: I forgot Gyarados and Dragons. HP Rock then? You would need something else to take care of Heatran but...

HP Rock? Then Terakion would resist it...LOL.

It is a toss up at the moment. HP Dragon would be the most versatile but I would lean towards HP Rock

 

[/B/utterfree]

HP Ground seems best for OU, as Heatran resists its Fire attacks and has a 4x weakness to Ground. Note also that there are plenty of Pokes being part-Steel (Empoleon, Bronzong) also in OU. Note also Ground's excellent offensive coverage.

 

[diamondfan1910]

No it doesn't.. it's neutral to Rock, so it wouldn't really wall it, and Heatran isn't gonna do anything to Mothra except for Explode on it or risk and try wearing it down with Fire Blast or Flamethrower.

I still think HP Rock is the best option, it can hit Dragonite, Salamence, Charizard and Moltres hard.

Bottom line is whatever Mothra's HP type is, it'll always be walled by certain Pokemon, so be sure to pack counters to those certain Pokemon when using Mothra.

I'm not very educated on Mothra, but if you're using HP Rock mainly to hit those four then you may as well use HP Ice. It's much better against Dragonite and Salamence and it hits Garchomp harder than Bug Buzz does as well. How often do you really see Moltres and Charizard in Standard?

 

[Thee]

I'm not very educated on Mothra, but if you're using HP Rock mainly to hit those four then you may as well use HP Ice. It's much better against Dragonite and Salamence and it hits Garchomp harder than Bug Buzz does as well. How often do you really see Moltres and Charizard in Standard?

It also hits gyrados and some other stuff. (as well as OTHER moth)
And Scarfchomp can come into Moth while BDing and outspeed so I can't see that as a major thing to cover.

 

[aVocado]

I'm not very educated on Mothra, but if you're using HP Rock mainly to hit those four then you may as well use HP Ice. It's much better against Dragonite and Salamence and it hits Garchomp harder than Bug Buzz does as well. How often do you really see Moltres and Charizard in Standard?

I actually though of HP Ice, but as Thee said, HP Rock necessary to hit Gyarados as well.

Mothra can run HP Rock, Ground, Ice, Water, maybe even Electric to nail bulky waters on the switch-in or somethin', every HP covers weaknesses and opens other weaknesses.

And Charizard and Moltres are the only 'mons that got on my head while i was typing that, so yeah. :P

 

[Blightbringer]

I actually though of HP Ice, but as Thee said, it's necessary to hit Gyarados as well.

Mothra can run HP Rock, Ground, Ice, Water, maybe even Electric to nail bulky waters on the switch-in or somethin', every HP covers weaknesses and opens other weaknesses.

The only bulky Waters you need to adjust your HP type for are Gyarados and the new Water/Ghost, since Bug Buzz hits all other ones for 135 base power.

 

[Not Scicky]

Guys, +1 Windstorm from Urugamosu 2HKO's Gyarados :/

+1 Windstorm 61% - 71.9%
+1 HP Rock 71.3% - 84%

Is it really worth the instakills on Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite and others?

Oh and this is timid Urugamosu.

Modest is

+1 Windstorm 66.8% - 78.9%
+1 HP Rock 78.5% - 92.4%

And HP Rock still fails to OHKO without SR.

 

[Coldcut]

What about taking advantage of the weakness to SR and using Swarm+Substitute to boost your attacks? Maybe something like this:

Urugamosu @ Salac Berry/Petaya Berry
Swarm
Timid
HP to activate Berry after 1 Substitute / the rest in Spe and SpAtk
Substitute
Fire Blast
Bug Buzz
HP Rock / Butterfly Dance

Think of this as a revenge sweeper. With Sun support, come in for free into Stealth Rock on something you can force out (which should be a lot), Substitute on the switch, activating both Swarm and the Salac Berry, and proceed to win the match with ridiculously powerful bug and fire moves from behind a sub with boosted speed. With Swarm, Sun, and STAB, bug and fire moves are both boosted by 2.25x, meaning Bug Buzz has a final power of 202.5 and Fire Blast reaches 270. Most priority users cannot survive one of these attacks (Lucario? Nope. Scizor? Yeah right. Dragonite? A reason to run HP Ice perhaps, but Fire Blast does as much as 50%). And heaven help anyone who lets you get a Butterfly Dance under these conditions.

 

[Thee]

Guys, +1 Windstorm from Urugamosu 2HKO's Gyarados :/

+1 Windstorm 61% - 71.9%
+1 HP Rock 71.3% - 84%

Is it really worth the instakills on Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite and others?

Oh and this is timid Urugamosu.

Modest is

+1 Windstorm 66.8% - 78.9%
+1 HP Rock 78.5% - 92.4%

And HP Rock still fails to OHKO without SR.

The problem is, you cannot afford to 2HKO Gyrados in any situation since it will OHKO you back (haven't done calcs).

And doesn't gyra get lefties at the end of the turn switching in (on Butterfly Dance)? (This leads to my next point)

What about with Life Orb? I know that isn't a very good item on Moth, but still.
Without life orb, and with one butterfly dance and SR, timid Moth could still KO Salamence with HP rock. Not even modest or life orbed

Dragonite is the main reason I would run HP ice, as Dragonite is only KOed with Modest and SR, and assuming it is not a defensive spread. But really, it depends on your team.
As mentioned before, HP rock has another risk in the fact that it lowers speed IVs by 1. This, however, usually should not be a major problem.

If you are trying to advertise Gale::
Flying super effective: Bug, Fighting, Grass,
Resisted: Electric, Rock, Steel
You already have fire (super effective against Bug and Grass), so the only thing flying hits SE is fighting.
Steel is covered by fire, but Electric or Rock do not resist Fire/Bug offense.
Bug/Fire is resisted only by (monotypes) Fire types. More prominently, we have the Fire/Steel Heatran, resistant to flying. I see how Gale can be tech, but I don't see it overthrowing HP as a main offensive move.

Throw in the fact that you don't even have stab, and you get few important SE hits on walls/counters, and Gale is simply not a very useful move.

What about taking advantage of the weakness to SR and using Swarm+Substitute to boost your attacks? Maybe something like this:

Urugamosu @ Salac Berry/Petaya Berry
Swarm
Timid
HP to activate Berry after 1 Substitute / the rest in Spe and SpAtk
Substitute
Fire Blast
Bug Buzz
HP Rock / Butterfly Dance

Think of this as a revenge sweeper. With Sun support, come in for free into Stealth Rock on something you can force out (which should be a lot), Substitute on the switch, activating both Swarm and the Salac Berry, and proceed to win the match with ridiculously powerful bug and fire moves from behind a sub with boosted speed. With Swarm, Sun, and STAB, bug and fire moves are both boosted by 2.25x, meaning Bug Buzz has a final power of 202.5 and Fire Blast reaches 270. Most priority users cannot survive one of these attacks (Lucario? Nope. Scizor? Yeah right. Dragonite? A reason to run HP Ice perhaps, but Fire Blast does as much as 50%). And heaven help anyone who lets you get a Butterfly Dance under these conditions.

Adding to your post =)

(Probably are wrong)
Calcs for swarm + petaya Modest Urgamoth (not factoring a Butterfly Dance) Bug Buzz
Does 343-404 damage to a 229 Special Defense Swampert.
167-196 on offensive Dragonites
If you do get another boost (from Butterfly/Fire Dance) you do:
222-261 on Dragonite (I think around 50% chance to KO after SR)
And a clean KO on standard 4th gen Swampert from Bug Buzz.
(Sub, Butterfly Dance, Bug Buzz, Fire Dance/Fire Blast)
EDIT: I should mention that I didn't factor in Dragonite's Dream World ability.

 

[Not Scicky]

With life orb, HP Rock does 101.5% - 119.6% to Gyarados after +1, that's modest too, Gale would do 87% - 102.4%, it's an OHKO with rocks regardless.

I guess what reason is there to run HP at all? Running Gale, Bug Buzz, Fire Blast/Fire Dance and Butterfly Dance means you can pretty much OHKO everything that can threaten to kill you, Mixnite takes 99.1% - 116.7% from +1 Life Orb Gale, and Salamence takes 104.5% - 123.3%, Garchomp is OHKO'd by Bug Buzz and by that logic, so is pretty much every dragon out there. If Gale is efficient enough at killing them, I don't see a reason to run HP Rock or Ice or whatever. :/

 

[Thee]

With life orb, HP Rock does 101.5% - 119.6% to Gyarados after +1, that's modest too, Gale would do 87% - 102.4%, it's an OHKO with rocks regardless.

I guess what reason is there to run HP at all? Running Gale, Bug Buzz, Fire Blast/Fire Dance and Butterfly Dance means you can pretty much OHKO everything that can threaten to kill you, Mixnite takes 99.1% - 116.7% from +1 Life Orb Gale, and Salamence takes 104.5% - 123.3%, Garchomp is OHKO'd by Bug Buzz and by that logic, so is pretty much every dragon out there. If Gale is efficient enough at killing them, I don't see a reason to run HP Rock or Ice or whatever. :/

As I stated before, Moth can barely afford to sustain a single hit. Its defenses are moderate enough to take a hit, before being revenged by priority. Having HP moves eliminate key threats to a sweep,
Namely, Dragonite and HEATRAN (who resists flying/bug/fire).
Moth can barely KO minimum Special Defense Nite after stealth rock with HP Rock.

I saw the Erefuun thread again and it seems that it could stop BD Moth the first time it switches in. The problem is that teams are revealed beforehand, so there is little reason for Moth not to use a fire move on the switch, barring Heatran/Erefuun combos. But if HP rock is used, Moth does not have to worry about using BD or Fire Blast.

Finally (not related to HP), if Fire Dance does have a 100% chance to raise special attack, I can see it in the subtaya/subsalac set to accomodate Fire/Bug/HP.

 

[storm]

Urugamosu raping a team with one butterfly dance! (and with funny comentary too!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRepIDuiNV0

 

[Sphyxius]

Urugamosu raping a team with one butterfly dance! (and with funny comentary too!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRepIDuiNV0

epic lulz.

People are clearly underestimating this thing.

 

[Death Phenomeno]

According to that video, Fire Dance doesn't boost Special Attack 100% of the time. Was this already confirmed?

 

[Enlong]

Hm.. So instead of being a crazy sweeping engine of death, Fire Dance is really a Fire-typed Charge Beam/Shadow Ball, eh? I guess that's all right. Urugamoth has Butterfly Dance for setting up.

 

[IcyMan28]

More like Shadow Ball, though we aren't sure what the percent chance is for the boost.

 

[Aurinko]

The best set for this one is Fire blast / Bug buzz / HP Rock / Butterfly Dance @ Life Orb, there's absolutely no need for HP Ground 'cause Heatran isn't able to touch Urugamosu after it's Butterfly Dance.
Gale shouldn't be chosen, in another thread was said that it only boosts it's acc in rain which doesn't help Urugamosu at all.

 

[Sphyxius]

The best set for this one is Fire blast / Bug buzz / HP Rock / Butterfly Dance @ Life Orb, there's absolutely no need for HP Ground 'cause Heatran isn't able to touch Urugamosu after it's Butterfly Dance.
Gale shouldn't be chosen, in another thread was said that it only boosts it's acc in rain which doesn't help Urugamosu at all.

Does HP Rock keep it from running max speed? cause if not, fuck that noise.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to see some calcs for +1 HP Rock on the standard Heatran. I can't imagine a neutral hit with no STAB of 70 BP doing any more than chipping away at Heatran's 91/106 special defense, even at +1. And needless to say Heatran is immune to Fire and quad resists bug. So it sounds like Urugamosu isn't touching Heatran either, at least not without another boost.

Also, you completely forgot Explosion. >.> I think HP ground is the better choice here, assuming it doesn't hinder your speed IVs.

 

[Seth Vilo]

I used Porygon-Z for the base on Smogon Calc.:

252 Timid Life Orb Porygon-Z +1 (70bp Rock Special)
vs. 0/4 Naive Choice Scarf Heatran : 50.2% - 59.1%

A 2HKO on Scarf Tran.

Hope I don't get ninja'd...

 

[storm]

The best set for this one is Fire blast / Bug buzz / HP Rock / Butterfly Dance @ Life Orb, there's absolutely no need for HP Ground 'cause Heatran isn't able to touch Urugamosu after it's Butterfly Dance.
Gale shouldn't be chosen, in another thread was said that it only boosts it's acc in rain which doesn't help Urugamosu at all.

Heatran explosion says hi.

 

[IcyMan28]

Explosion is looking far less viable on Heatran these days now that it does not halve defense. Bulky waters and Blissey will merely recover off the damage...so while HP Ground is good in general, I think we should wait and see just how often Heatran actually uses Explosion.