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Conkeldurr
- Thread starter Colonel M
- Start date
Expert belt on Roosh isn't such a bad idea if Dory's giving you trouble. Roosh has decent enough coverage to make Expert Belt work. Still a let down to lose Leftovers.
Since Encourage gets rid of Life Orb recoil, it might be better to run that, however then you lose the nifty Drain Punch.
Since Encourage gets rid of Life Orb recoil, it might be better to run that, however then you lose the nifty Drain Punch.
Assuming no Defensive EVs, how many Bulkups would a Pooshin need to endure an Earthquake comfortably from Drillmole?
Really? And what would you run then?
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
What are you talking about? Bulk Up Rohpushin is really good, and I can't even begin to think how you can compare the two. Pert doesn't get a great Fighting STAB move (Drain Punch), priority, or Guts. Pert does have some notable advantages, like good special bulk, but overall they are completely different.
Standard Drain Punch/Mach Punch/Payback/Stone Edge is what I've found most effective. Bulkup Poosh hasn't accomplished anything for me and simply wished I ran a different defensive fighting type. There's a lot that can stop Bulkup Poosh and he has a lot of competition for the role of a bulk up user. On the straight up bulky offense side however he can carve himself a very nice niche.
I also find move pool difficult with Bulk Up. Either you use Drain Punch and sacrifice the much needed priority or you use Mach Punch and lose the even greater need on a defensive set for recovery. Without Mach Punch, he loses to many special attackers on anything other than the switch in. Without drain punch, he can then lose to some heavy physical attackers who are intent capable of wearing him down, and can't switchin on and then proceed to setup on as many physical attackers.
EDIT- at above, you misundestood. Rest Talk Swampert is a novel idea that would seem to work but in all honesty is just a poorer version of a great pokemon, so is bulk up Poosh.
I also find move pool difficult with Bulk Up. Either you use Drain Punch and sacrifice the much needed priority or you use Mach Punch and lose the even greater need on a defensive set for recovery. Without Mach Punch, he loses to many special attackers on anything other than the switch in. Without drain punch, he can then lose to some heavy physical attackers who are intent capable of wearing him down, and can't switchin on and then proceed to setup on as many physical attackers.
EDIT- at above, you misundestood. Rest Talk Swampert is a novel idea that would seem to work but in all honesty is just a poorer version of a great pokemon, so is bulk up Poosh.
Or you don't drop either and instead drop Stone Edge or Payback.
What in the world..? Without Bulk Up, Roobushin fails to beat things like Suicune, Hippowdon, Burungeru, and other walls. Get rid of Payback or Stone Edge, simple as that. Btw, I've been testing Stone Edge and I agree it's his best coverage option > Payback.
No +0 EQ from Doryuzuu has ever OHKO me, especially after a Bulk Up. You don't need to try to KO him with Mach Punch. Instead you Drain Punch off the EQ damage and then finish him with Mach Punch if Drain didn't finish him off already.
Where to even begin?
Either you're playing yours ineffectively, you have a poor EV spread, or a combination of both. Bulk Up/Guts Roopushin is one of the absolute biggest threats in this new metagame.
+1 Adament Guts no burn Drain Punch to CroCune
27.7% - 32.9%
I see no reason not to Roar in this situation. Skarmory's and Hippowdon's Roar is even more potent as they take less than Crocune. Under Rain, Suicune can proceed to kill Pooshin.
Acid Armor Pringals can easily stop Bulk Up Boosh without Payback.
Gliscor is a fairly good counter. Let's also not forget Desukaan, Tangrowth, Uxie, Leafeon, and Bronzong.
In all of these situations, you are almost guaranteed to lose momentum. Go ahead though, I'm sure people will keep using this just like people used Aerodactyl last gen.
Yes but you still didn't kill Roopushin by Roaring it, you only delayed its rampage. If a phazer is all you have to stop it you're in trouble. Skarmory at least has Brave Bird but it is totally fucked when it has to Roost taking SE damage.
Standard Burungeru can barely touch Roopushin. If you're going to Acid Armor then I'm going to Bulk Up every time too. You'll burn me with weal Boiling Water attacks and then you'll get raped by Stone Edge or Payback. Burungeru can only stall and may actually end up causing your lost by letting a +6 Roopushin lose with priority.
Gliscor is a good check, particularly if it has a flying move. If not, you can effectively Bulk Up enough or get Toxiced and power through Gliscor. If I know you're going to use Protect that's when I Bulk Up and eventually your Earthquakes aren't going to hurt much. Course Taunt helps Gliscor immensely. This match entirely depends on the Gliscor as I've plowed through Gliscor with my Roopushin, and I've stopped Roopushin with my Gliscor.
Desukan is set up fodder. A Desukan will need Nasty Plot to do good damage, otherwise all it can do is status you and you won't get the Mummy ability if you have Stone Edge.
Tangrowth with Sleep Powder is indeed dangerous, but that's taken care of if you were statused previously. Hardly seen though.
Uxie is also very rare but yes, Roopushin should not stay in on a bulky Psychic.
I've never even seen Leafeon.
Bronzong is like Desukan, set up fodder. It doesn't resist your fighting moves and standard Zong don't run SpA EVs, or even Psychic normally.
His biggest threat by far is Rankurusu. Bulky with STAB Psychic. Espeon is also very common and powerful enough to do him in. L@atis are also nightmares.
Standard Burungeru can barely touch Roopushin. If you're going to Acid Armor then I'm going to Bulk Up every time too. You'll burn me with weal Boiling Water attacks and then you'll get raped by Stone Edge or Payback. Burungeru can only stall and may actually end up causing your lost by letting a +6 Roopushin lose with priority.
Gliscor is a good check, particularly if it has a flying move. If not, you can effectively Bulk Up enough or get Toxiced and power through Gliscor. If I know you're going to use Protect that's when I Bulk Up and eventually your Earthquakes aren't going to hurt much. Course Taunt helps Gliscor immensely. This match entirely depends on the Gliscor as I've plowed through Gliscor with my Roopushin, and I've stopped Roopushin with my Gliscor.
Desukan is set up fodder. A Desukan will need Nasty Plot to do good damage, otherwise all it can do is status you and you won't get the Mummy ability if you have Stone Edge.
Tangrowth with Sleep Powder is indeed dangerous, but that's taken care of if you were statused previously. Hardly seen though.
Uxie is also very rare but yes, Roopushin should not stay in on a bulky Psychic.
I've never even seen Leafeon.
Bronzong is like Desukan, set up fodder. It doesn't resist your fighting moves and standard Zong don't run SpA EVs, or even Psychic normally.
His biggest threat by far is Rankurusu. Bulky with STAB Psychic. Espeon is also very common and powerful enough to do him in. L@atis are also nightmares.
Alakazam does revenge it if you only got one Bulk Up, so Mach doesn't OHKO.
And Alakazam does fairly good this gen with Magic Guard, so it can be a check you should prepare for before trying to sweep with it.
Though the amazing thing about Roobushin is the amount of HP you drain back with Drain Punch. PHazers fail to stop Roobushin because of that, while if you can stop it from Draining, you can kill it with Residual damage.
And Alakazam does fairly good this gen with Magic Guard, so it can be a check you should prepare for before trying to sweep with it.
Though the amazing thing about Roobushin is the amount of HP you drain back with Drain Punch. PHazers fail to stop Roobushin because of that, while if you can stop it from Draining, you can kill it with Residual damage.
First off, that calculation is incorrect. Max Attack Roobushin, after a Bulk Up, does 34.4% - 40.8% to standard CroCune. The Careful Spread does 26.2% - 31.2%. Secondly, CroCune is nothing more but set up fodder. Finally, CroCune lacks Roar since the set Cromat presented years ago was:
~ Calm Mind
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Surf (or in this gen maybe Boil Over)
This means you're either using a Suicune without Sleep Talk or a Suicune without Rest + Sleep Talk altogether. Anyway, if CroCune uses Surf, it will 2HKO 252 HP variants after a Calm Mind. 120 HP / 136 SpD variants require two Calm Minds for Boil Over. Careful spread requires 3 Calm Minds with Boil Over. Meanwhile, Roobushin sets up against it with Bulk Up and follows up with Drain Punch to alleviate itself from being 2HKOed. If Roobushin ever gets statused in the process, it's gg for Suicune. Technically, Suicune can win since after one Calm Mind it makes most of the Roobushin's unable to switch into the Calm Mind then Bulk Up (due to the fear of +1 Surf 2HKOing), but Suicune cannot switch into Roobushin either. If it's Careful Roobushin, it can switch into Suicune while it Calm Minds and set up at least a Bulk Up or two (two if the Suicune uses Boil Over over Surf).
Yes, Roobushin's issues are very common (Psychic-types and heavy Special Attackers), but even Pokemon such as Machamp are plagued by this issue as well. Roobushin isn't exactly CroCune by any means, but it's no means terrible. Comparing it to Aerodactyl seems a little harsh on its part since Aero even had a use in 4th Gen (Suicide Leads) and was one of the prime reasons leads almost had to carry a priority attack just so Aerodactyl couldn't do something like Taunt + Stealth Rock or Stealth Rock + Attack immediately.
And uh... wtf does Leafeon even... do? Aside from Roar?
~ Calm Mind
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Surf (or in this gen maybe Boil Over)
This means you're either using a Suicune without Sleep Talk or a Suicune without Rest + Sleep Talk altogether. Anyway, if CroCune uses Surf, it will 2HKO 252 HP variants after a Calm Mind. 120 HP / 136 SpD variants require two Calm Minds for Boil Over. Careful spread requires 3 Calm Minds with Boil Over. Meanwhile, Roobushin sets up against it with Bulk Up and follows up with Drain Punch to alleviate itself from being 2HKOed. If Roobushin ever gets statused in the process, it's gg for Suicune. Technically, Suicune can win since after one Calm Mind it makes most of the Roobushin's unable to switch into the Calm Mind then Bulk Up (due to the fear of +1 Surf 2HKOing), but Suicune cannot switch into Roobushin either. If it's Careful Roobushin, it can switch into Suicune while it Calm Minds and set up at least a Bulk Up or two (two if the Suicune uses Boil Over over Surf).
Yes, Roobushin's issues are very common (Psychic-types and heavy Special Attackers), but even Pokemon such as Machamp are plagued by this issue as well. Roobushin isn't exactly CroCune by any means, but it's no means terrible. Comparing it to Aerodactyl seems a little harsh on its part since Aero even had a use in 4th Gen (Suicide Leads) and was one of the prime reasons leads almost had to carry a priority attack just so Aerodactyl couldn't do something like Taunt + Stealth Rock or Stealth Rock + Attack immediately.
And uh... wtf does Leafeon even... do? Aside from Roar?
So basically to clarify Roobushin is awesome. Its like Machamp with less arms but even more steroids. It hits everything hard and has great coverage with only two moves (Drain Punch + Stone Edge or Drain Punch and Payback) it gets a stab priority and that even gives it room for Bulk Up which lets it get even more HP back everytime by just hitting hard with a move that would hit hard anyway even if it didn't give you health back which just makes the sweep harder to stop. That is just why Roobushin is so good. I mean sure there are things that can stop it but every pokemon can be stopped by something.
You are all misunderstanding me. I'm not talking about Roopooshing as a whole, JUST THE BULK UP SET.
Losing momentum in this meta game is huge, so having your stat booster so easily phased out is huge.
Again Poosh still finds
Alakazam's tend to run Focus Sash so typically they will get to kill Poosh, reguardless of how bulked up you are.
Then if I could get back on the point of competition for the role, there are a lot of pokemon who compeate with Poosh for the Bulk Up role. Due to it's low speed, only moderate physical bulk and poor special defense, the amount of pokemon that a Bulk Up Poosh can actually set up is limited compared to other pokemon. Many times the pokemon can simply stay in and continue to damage Poosh as he attempts to setup, making him easy to ko by your special attacker.
What Zuruzukin lacks in attack and priority it makes up in special bulk and double speed of Poosh (though it's speed is still nothing spectacular. Getting that switchin and free turn of setting up is important, and that's something that Zuru can do much easier than Poosh thanks to it's astounding mixed bulk and Intimidate. Zuru also doesn't have to fear the psychic types that we listed as potential counter aside from the Hidden Power Fightings or the inaccurate Focus Blast. STAB Payback is also another wonderful advantage of Zuru in the bulk up department. Since a vast majority of Zuru's run Shed Skin burn is not much of an issue either. Zuru also makes an amazing partner with Agility Baton Pass Zapdose, something that Bulk Up Poosh can never fulfill.
Losing momentum in this meta game is huge, so having your stat booster so easily phased out is huge.
Again Poosh still finds
There is no standard yet. The metagame is too young.
+2 versus +1. I will have several turns to damage you. And once we are both full, I can still recover back your Stone Edges unless you have encourage.
Who said I would use Boiling Water? Thanks for assuming I play like a twat. I run Acid Armor/Recover/Boiling Water/Night Shade. Night Shade allows me to invest in my defenses and base 85 special attack ain't shit. It doesn't help me with special walls but I don't expect to win against special walls.
It only needs to stall. It's a stall pokemon.
Again what man in his right mind would Toxic and Guts pokemon?
Imagine that, a pokemon needs to run a prefered set to counter the pokemon it wants to counter, huh, how about that.
Sun is out now, so you have to look out for Venesaur, Tangagrowth, and Leafeon, all three very, very, very potent under sun and usable without it.
Alakazam's tend to run Focus Sash so typically they will get to kill Poosh, reguardless of how bulked up you are.
Then if I could get back on the point of competition for the role, there are a lot of pokemon who compeate with Poosh for the Bulk Up role. Due to it's low speed, only moderate physical bulk and poor special defense, the amount of pokemon that a Bulk Up Poosh can actually set up is limited compared to other pokemon. Many times the pokemon can simply stay in and continue to damage Poosh as he attempts to setup, making him easy to ko by your special attacker.
What Zuruzukin lacks in attack and priority it makes up in special bulk and double speed of Poosh (though it's speed is still nothing spectacular. Getting that switchin and free turn of setting up is important, and that's something that Zuru can do much easier than Poosh thanks to it's astounding mixed bulk and Intimidate. Zuru also doesn't have to fear the psychic types that we listed as potential counter aside from the Hidden Power Fightings or the inaccurate Focus Blast. STAB Payback is also another wonderful advantage of Zuru in the bulk up department. Since a vast majority of Zuru's run Shed Skin burn is not much of an issue either. Zuru also makes an amazing partner with Agility Baton Pass Zapdose, something that Bulk Up Poosh can never fulfill.
It set up rocks, then it died. That's all it did. Horrible pokemon that was used because Rocks was overrated.
Under Sun it can do a ton, even without sun it's still a great underrated pokemon. Sword Dance, Yawn, Screens, it can run as either a great bulky quick attacker or a useful team supporter. Leafeon can turn Poosh into setup folder with a Baton Pass set and it's wonderful defense stat.
Couldn't Dusclops cause a lot of trouble for Roobushin? The only thing Roobushin can do is use Stone Edge, which only has 4 PP thanks to Pressure. In the meantime, Dusclops can take hits thanks to its huge defenses with the Evo Stone, heal up with Pain Split thanks to Roobushin's large HP stat, and use Night Shade for damage (it'll still 5HKO but it ignores Bulk Up Defense boosts).
It's also got a few good options - Mean Look to trap it, Disable to stop Bulk Up or Stone Edge, and Protect + Status moves to stall for damage.
Dusclops is also slower, so Payback does the same damage as Stone Edge.
It's also got a few good options - Mean Look to trap it, Disable to stop Bulk Up or Stone Edge, and Protect + Status moves to stall for damage.
Dusclops is also slower, so Payback does the same damage as Stone Edge.
Dusclops is no problem whatsoever. You Bulk Up when it switches in, bulk up again while it does nothing, and then 2hko it with stone edge. If it is foolish enough to burn you on the second bulk up, you 1hko it.
I guess I'm really stupid when it comes to calcs, but if there are no entry hazards, would 252/252 Impish Dusclops@ES take 35-42% from an Adamant 252 +2 Roobushin@Lefties Stone Edge? If that's correct, then couldn't Dusclops stall Stone Edge out of PP if it has Protect?
BurningMan
fueled by beer
ofc it could but roopushin will just set up more bulk ups while you can't do much in return except for night shade wich doesn't do much.
Dusclops problem is that he is like shuckle he has godly defenses, but lacks reliable recovery and is taunt bait.