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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Colonel M, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. Colonel M

    Colonel M Fatecrashers Please
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 5, 2007
    Not something that looks like you want to fuck with, does it?
    [B][Base Stats][/B]
    105 HP
    140 Atk
    95 Def
    55 SpA
    65 SpD
    45 Spe
      If the Pokemon is Burned, Paralyzed, or Poisoned, 
    the wielder's Attack stat is raised by 50%.
      Moves that have a secondary effect 
    (for example: Waterfall has a flinch rate) have their 
    base power raised by 30%, but the secondary effects 
    are nullified.
    [U]Iron Fist[/U]
      Boosts Fist-based Attacks base power by 20%
    [U]Level Up[/U]
    Lv1: Pound
    Lv1: Leer
    Lv1: Focus Energy
    Lv1: Bide
    Lv4: Focus Energy
    Lv8: Bide
    [B]Lv12: Low Kick[/B]
    Lv16: Rock Throw
    Lv20: Wake-Up Slap
    Lv24: Payment Plan - Normal Physical Power: 70 / Accuracy: 100
    Target's stat changes don't affect this attack
    [B]Lv29: Bulk Up
    Lv33: Rock Slide[/B]
    Lv37: DynamicPunch
    [B]Lv41: Scary Face
    Lv45: Hammer Arm
    Lv49: Stone Edge
    Lv53: Focus Punch
    Lv57: Superpower[/B]
    Egg Moves
    [B]Drain Punch[/B]
    Comet Punch
    Wide Guard - Rock Other Power: --- / Accuracy: ---
    User and allies protected from multi-target attacks
    [B]Force Palm[/B]
    [B]Mach Punch[/B]
    TMs and HMs
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM08 - Bulk Up
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM11 - Sunny Day
    [B]TM12 - Taunt[/B]
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect
    TM18 - Rain Dance
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM23 - Strike Down -  Rock Physical Power: 50 / Accuracy: 100
    Target falls to the ground
    TM26 - Earthquake
    TM27 - Return
    TM28 - Dig
    [B]TM31 - Brick Break[/B]
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM39 - Rock Tomb
    [B]TM42 - Facade[/B]
    TM44 - Rest
    TM45 - Attract
    [B]TM47 - Ankle Sweep - Fighting Phyiscal Power: 60 / Accuracy: 100
    Lowers opponent's Speed.[/B]
    TM48 - Troll - Normal Special Power: 60 / Accuracy: 100
    Power increases when allies also use Troll.
    TM52 - Focus Blast
    TM56 - Fling
    [B]TM66 - Payback[/B]
    TM67 - Get Even - Normal Physical Power: 70 / Accuracy: 100
    Power increases if an ally was KOed the previous turn.
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM71 - Stone Edge
    TM78 - Smooth Over - ?
    TM80 - Rock Slide
    [B]TM83 - Cheer Up - Normal Other
    Raises Attack and Special Attack one stage
    TM84 - Poison Jab[/B]
    TM86 - Grass Knot
    TM87 - Swagger
    [B]TM90 - Substitute[/B]
    TM94 - Rock Smash
    HM04 - Strength
    [Rohpushin At a Glance]
    • Taunt - This is a big perk for Rohpushin. To be fair, Machamp has Encore and Hariyama has Whilrwind. Even so, Taunt is effective because it shuts down the vast majority of wall's options such as recovery and pseudo-Hazing. It also prevents sweepers from getting an edge versus Rohpushin and kills Baton Pass teams that lack a Taunt user.
    • Hammer Arm / Force Palm - Believe it or not, these are perks for two reasons. First off, Machamp's only move that it can use while being bulky is Dynamicpunch, which requires No Guard. If it tries to use Guts, its only option is Cross Chop, which has 80% accuracy and 5 PP. Force Palm can induce paralysis while Hammer Arm offers Rohpushin a safe move that lowers its Speed, which barely matters unless it needs to be faster to Taunt a Pokemon (which in most cases it won't). Hammer Arm is great for Trick Room purposes since it actually speeds up Rohpushin.
    • Access to 101 HP Substitutes and Iron Fist - This makes Rohpushin an excellent choice for a SubPuncher. It's more beneficial that he's slower since he should be able to take less than 76% damage and still safely set up a Substitute (assuming no Sandstorm conditions). Iron Fist Focus Punches hurt coming from base 140 Attack.
    • Mach Punch - This is a big one. Machamp and Hariyama's only priority move is Bullet Punch. Rohpushin makes great use of a Revenge Killer. While it can't touch those that resist or are flat out immune to it, it provides a big perk for taking out Pokemon like Infernape, for example. This is a welcome move for the Bulk Up, Choice Band, hell even the Standard set.
    • Encourage - While it lacks a lot of moves to make use of it, and some of the moves are unkown, Encourage Rock Slide means that Rohpushin has access to a 97.5 BP Rock-type move that has 90% accuracy. Can't really frown upon that.
    • Lack of Sleep Talk - This is a disadvantage, since Rest + Sleep Talk Rohpushin would be excellent behind Guts. Fuck you Dragon Tail TM.
    • Lack of Close Combat - Let's be frank: It is unlike many of the Fighting-types such as Machamp and Hariyama in that it lacks this key move. It hurts Rohpushin as a sweeper, but it is nevertheless not a huge disadvantage since Rohpushin does like being bulky in general.
    • Possible Lack of Speed? - While Machamp's Speed is still a questionable stat, it can wield a Choice Scarf slightly better than Rohpushin. Furthermore, it does have the edge on being able to outspeed a couple of walls, albeit it still is borderline Speed-creep.
    • NOTE: MACH PUNCH + FORCE PALM IS ILLEGAL! - It's nothing huge to note, but just in case people got the random idea to "try it".

    [Commentary: EVs]

    Figured out a solid EV spread thanks to X-Act's Defensive applet. 120 HP | 252 Atk | 136 SpD. This gives Rohpushin maximized attack while making it more defensive than Machamp and "slightly" inferior on the Special Defense side vs. Machamp. To compare them:

    Rohpushin: 381 HP | 417 Atk | 226 Def | 200 SpD
    Machamp: 384 HP | 394 Atk | 196 Def | 206 SpD

    If you want to match Machamp's Atk and invest more in Special Defense, you can take up to 80 more EVs out of Attack. Yeah, that's how much more room Rohpushin has to buff his Special Defense problem! It requires 12 EVs to tie HP, then 24 to tie SpD. So you can run with a grand total of:

    132 HP | 220 Atk | 160 SpD

    Rohpushin will still have +14 Atk over Machamp, but of course it's just recommended to use 120 | 252 | 136 as suggested with an Adamant nature.

    Speed sounds appealing, but there's one problem: max Speed Adamant Rohpushin is outsped by Skarmory with minimal investment in Speed (around 52). Simply put: Keep Speed out of the picture.

    [Guts vs. Encourage]

    This is actually hard to make a solid decision. Encourage technically boosts Rock Slide only so far (yeah, a real bummer). Granted, it becomes more powerful, accurate, and PP conservative than Stone Edge was. Guts might be better on the sets, actually, since Rohpushin has a ridiculous Atk stat as is, and Guts just makes it more painful to face its attacks. This makes Toxic Orb and Flame Orb viable items if you're not looking for Rohpushin to last forever.

    [Potential Sets]

    Name: Standard
    move 1: Taunt
    move 2: Hammer Arm / Force Palm
    move 3: Payback
    move 4: Mach Punch / Stone Edge / Rock Slide
    ability: Guts
    item: Leftovers
    EVs: 120 HP | 252 Atk | 136 SpD
    nature: Adamant


    Taunt already screws up walls, so even if all it does is use Taunt Rohpushin accomplished its job. Offensively, it can fire off Hammer Arms while not worrying about the Speed drop much. Payback fends off Ghosts (barring Spiritomb, who at least is put aside with Taunt). Rock Slide vs. Stone Edge is accuracy vs. Power pretty much. Both are boosted to 120 and 150 base powers, respectively. Rock Slide also has a bigger PP usage, so it might help in situations with Pressure.

    A variation on Standard is to use Force Palm instead of Hammer Arm, then use Guts. This means that you can also use Guts and still be safe from a burn / toxic induction. Sadly Rock Slide drops in power, so you may need to use Stone Edge. Mach Punch is a good move for this set too since Rohpushin does nicely with a priority move on it. It can replace Payback or Rock Slide. If it replaces Rock Slide, simply use Guts.

    Deck Knight offers a better alternative to the next set:
    Name: Choice Band
    move 1: Superpower
    move 2: Stone Edge / Rock Slide
    move 3: Payback
    move 4: Mach Punch
    ability: Guts / Encourage
    item: Choice Band
    evs: 252 HP | 252 Atk | 4 Spe
    nature: Adamant


    What's the one thing Machamp lacks as far as a priority move goes? The lack of STAB behind it! Rohpushin uses this to his advantage thanks to Mach Punch being available. You can add Hammer Arm if you need a move that offers consistency. Guts might actually work better for this set, but the main drawback is if the opponent doesn't have a status move in their arsenal, it could bode problems with its usefulness. Still, consider that Toxic Orb / Flame Orb can also be slapped for the same effect as Choice Band with the advantage being versatility and the disadvantage being loss of HP.

    Name: Bulk Up
    move 1: Bulk Up
    move 2: Mach Punch
    move 3: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
    move 4: Payback / Hammer Arm
    ability: Guts
    item: Toxic Orb
    evs: 120 HP | 252 Atk | 136 SpD
    nature: Adamant


    Pretty much "go all out". Bulk Up + Guts puts Rohpushin at 832 Attack. With STAB Mach Punch going for you, you're bound to know that things will get deadly. Furthermore, with the Toxic Orb you're immune to status. Sadly, it isn't quite comparable to Swords Dance + Mach Punch Breloom, but being able to obtain a +1 Def is pretty nice, so it's possible to get more Bulk Ups in. 4 Moveslot Syndrome is this set's real weakness since it can set up on phazers such as Hippowdon with Taunt. That would require foregoing Hammer Arm and Payback or Rock-type move of your choice. Payback / Hammer Arm or Rock Slide / Stone Edge + Hammer Arm also works. Payback is more for pure Ghost-types. Facade also works nicely on this set, but be warned: it is cockblocked by Steels and Ghosts!


    With access to Taunt and its cool abilities, Rohpushin is bound to make a threat one way or another. It is a bit of a middle road with Hariyama and Machamp in that it can abuse Guts to some extent, has access to being able to make decent Subs, fairly bulky, etc. It's sad that it is weak on the Special Defense side of the spectrum, but with its modest 105 base HP it helps cut for some of the slack. On the physical defensive side, Machamp can't compare, so it definitely is great on that part.

    There isn't much more to add, but hey! Maybe you guys can help throw some cool school ideas for the community. Let's hear it for the Pokemon that's so manly he carries two stones with his hands: Rohpushin!
  2. cozcozcoz


    Sep 9, 2009
    if i use the ability that cancels effect would it cancel the negative priority for focus punch?
    and is the stat drop from super power canceled also?
  3. ANinyMouse


    Jan 7, 2006
    It only counts effects on the opponent. So, no.

    But attacks like Stone Edge, as stated, would receive the boost.
  4. Colonel M

    Colonel M Fatecrashers Please
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 5, 2007
    Nope, how it works is that those are primary effects. Secondary effects involve, for example, "chance to burn, flinch, etc". Not 100% sure if Payback, Mach Punch, and Drain Punch, though I assume those would work fine.
  5. Rykard


    Sep 18, 2010
    i'm wondering if it cancels the recharge from giga impact
  6. Colonel M

    Colonel M Fatecrashers Please
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 5, 2007
    Recharge is also a primary effect, so no: it would still force a recharge.
  7. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight PillowmaGod
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    May 27, 2005
    Rohpushin's greatest problem will be differentiating itself from Machamp. Machamp is only slightly less powerful, but it's similarly bulky and faster.

    If I'm to understand Encourage correctly, Brick Break would actually be its most powerful STAB, (at 112.5 in exchange for not breaking screens, and much better PP than Drain Punch), and should be used over Hammer Arm (since Encourage does not stop stat drops and BB would have more accuracy). This would need to be tested though.
  8. Azlanslayer


    Jul 9, 2010
    This pokemon is pro, it can be used in trick room teams where he destroys alot. 140 base atk stat isn't something to laugh about. The high atk makes up for the speed stat. Anyways, this pokemon can use some agility baton passers like ninjask, as well as trick room support.

    EDIT: Can he use a set like lead hariyama? Flame Orb etc. The disadvantages is that hes not fast nor bulky like machamp.
  9. Losa


    Mar 1, 2007
    This thing is sure to tear some shit up early on in the metagame but you just can't beat that 100% confuse rate Machamp offers. I truly hope I am wrong though.
  10. HiddenDragon72


    Oct 21, 2009
    It looks like a really sweet sweeper but with the right moves it would make for an effective tank as well. Still considering the combination of moves, abilities and such it can develop a presence ;)
  11. Colonel M

    Colonel M Fatecrashers Please
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 5, 2007
    The only thing that Machamp really carries as an advantage is No Guard and Dynamicpunch. Stone Edge is slightly irrelevant since Rock Slide, of all moves, can be boosted to have +20 base power in exchange for flinching (which who cares). Machamp's Spe is barely an edge: at best it does a Speed creep with Blissey. At the moment, Sleep Talk also remains an advantage. I'll grant you that Confusion is a huge boon.

    Meanwhile, Rohpushin carries edges with Encourage boosting its Rock-type attacks. Guts is easy to use on this guy, unlike Machamp since under most circumstances Machamp needs to fire No Guard Dynamicpunches to make sure the opponent has a 50% chance of doing nothing. Mach Punch is also significant as it gives Rohpushin a STAB priority move as well.

    Defensively, Machamp has a max HP of 384 with 196 Def | 206 SpD, since we're assuming max Atk. 0 EV Rohpushin has 351 HP: a difference of 33 points I admit, but Machamp also put all of its EVs into HP while Rohpushin hasn't invested a single point. For its other Defenses it has 226 Def | 116 SpD. Assuming max Atk, X-Act's Defensive Applet suggests 381 HP | 226 Def | 199 SpD.

    Still, defensively they're about even, though Rohpushin leads more physically defensive while Machamp has a little more Special Defense on him.

    Either way, yes, it does have to find some niches away from Machamp, but you have to admit: it does already have some with the base stats and a few key differences in the movepool. Machamp can't even brag Iron Fist Focus Punch, but of course in return Rohpushin can't counter No Guard Dynamicpunch easy.
    I was unsure on it, so I didn't list Brick Break. If you're right, though, then yeah I can easily see Brick Break as the best STAB since it has 150 base power (with STAB and Encourage boost included).
  12. asiano


    Aug 18, 2010
    This thing is going to be awesome for a trick room team. Still Machamp with its No Guard ability evens for Rohpushin's greater HP stat which makes this a hard choice. Judging by this thing's stats it will make a good baton pass receiver or at least an anti-lead. In my opinion Rohpushin will be really affected by the move tutors (Curse will be pretty much AWESOME on him).

    btw does anybody know why this thing can even learn grass knot?
  13. kalamadude


    May 19, 2010
    This guy is so ballin'. I'm definitely using him on my in game team. I hope he doesn't fare to well in the OU metagame, cause he'd be an awesome upgrade of my Guts Bulk Up Hariyama set in UU lol.

    Probably my favorite new Pokemon.
  14. Colonel M

    Colonel M Fatecrashers Please
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 5, 2007
    Updated Rohpushin stuff. Since we don't know about Encourage all the way, I'm going to say that Guts is probably the better of abilities. More emphasis on Mach Punch too, since it is a pretty big selling point against Machamp.
  15. rh2012


    Sep 5, 2009
    i'd be interested in a sub + drain punch set. I'd probably add more bulk to it.
  16. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight PillowmaGod
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    May 27, 2005
    I heard from SDS that Encourage doesn't boost high crit moves, so sadly Stone Edge doesn't get a boost. Guts is the better ability for now, especially since Bulky Waters are more apt to run Boiling Water now.
  17. Nubagator


    Aug 16, 2010
    though I have read through just about every thread for b/w this is the only one I have commented on. I love this guy, he's just awesome, though nobody seems to have realised a certain aspect of his tanking ability. I think this set would work quite nicely, and be fairly annyoingly hard to take down.


    item:leftovers/chesto berry
    ability- iron fist
    evs/ 252hp/180spdef/72 def/ -these are subject to change, focusing on your teams needs.
    1.bulk up
    3. drain punch
    4.payback/rockslide or stone edge/whatever you want

    basiclly, you set up bulk ups, and regain as much hp as possible through drain punches resting when needed. With the Iron fist boost, the recovery from drain punch, should be fairly good coupled with leftys after a bulk up or two. payback is mainly for coverage, though you could use rockslide, but it's pretty much up to you. attack evs can be run over defense ones, to get more drain punch recovery.

    I'm liking a guts mach punch using set though...god this guy is so cool
  18. pokemon


    Nov 7, 2009
    Just to show how bad ass and strong Rohpushin is, it can 2HKO Nattorei with Hammer Arm with no +Atk nature or Atk EVs, though I don't think it can do that on the most Defensive ones with 252 Hp/252Def and Impish nature, but a balanced one. Oh yeah it still outspeeds Nattorei after the -1 SPeed which is just LOL!
  19. some hero

    some hero

    Aug 20, 2009
    I love Fighters, and this guy isn't any different.

    Anyways, he isn't better than Machamp.With the 'Champ you can take out 1-3 Pokemon if your a little Lucky and still have a Substitute up.Would anyone really want to trade that possibility for 10 extra Attack points?

    This guy will never be as good as the 'Champ solely because of that possibility.But i do see him as a good Pokemon.Having Mach Punch is a huge deal, and that high defense is awesome.
  20. McDuggles


    Sep 25, 2010
    The thing is that he has the potential to do so. The difference between the two is negligible(imo) stat wise. The big difference is No Guard(Again, this is coming off speculation- otherwise, they basically do everything the same).

    The main problem(again, in my opinion) for our cinderblock toting buddy is the lack of move tutors in B/W. If they add new ones in Grey, and tweak his move pool like they tend to do in the 3rd game of a generation, we may have a monster equivalent to machamp on our hands.

    all in all i still think he's a great monster though, and i intend to use both of them on my mono-type fighting team
  21. MoogleEnsign


    Sep 26, 2010
    Iron Fist really really is redundant when you have encourage. Encourage gives the same boost?(20%) to all moves, not just punches. Exception is for drain punch.

    New Best defensive ou fighter with immediate offensive presence, drain punch+iron fist = strongest hp sapping move.
    Only thing is that it doesn't get encore like machamp =((nor does it have good special dfense.
  22. Omnipresent


    Jul 31, 2010
    Holy shit this thing is a monster o_o

    Ya, I'm liking this thing. That SubPunch set you are talking about seems deadly. Iron Fist makes him even more scarier. This thing is crazy, I will definitely be using this guy.
  23. McDuggles


    Sep 25, 2010
    According to the thread about encourage, this is what we have that it boosts in his movepool:

    So Iron Fist may be better for certain sets, Guts may be better for other sets, and Encourage may be better for one that has Force Palm and Rock Slide.

    Encourage is a wonderful ability, but it doesn't instantly make all of Rohpushin's other abilities pointless.
  24. Colonel M

    Colonel M Fatecrashers Please
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Aug 5, 2007
    By the way, I went to check on this. Mach Punch + Force Palm is an illegal move combination. And, technically, Mach Punch and Drain Punch are "illegal" with Iron Fist at the moment since we can't confirm Dream World stuff. Encourage, by the way, boosts moves by 30%, not 20% like Iron Fist does. This makes Rock Slide have 97.5 Base Power, which makes it slightly weaker than Stone Edge, but obviously has better accuracy to boot.
  25. Not Scicky

    Not Scicky

    Jun 30, 2007
    If anyone's interested, here's Rohpushin's BSR compared to Machamp's

    Physical Sweepiness: 122
    Physical Tankiness: 171
    Special Sweepiness: 68
    Special Tankiness: 120
    OD Balance: -8.13 Moderate bias towards defense
    PS Balance: 15.35 Heavily biased towards physical
    Overall: 254

    Physical Sweepiness: 134
    Physical Tankiness: 132
    Special Sweepiness: 82
    Special Tankiness: 138
    OD Balance: -1.05 Slight bias towards defense
    PS Balance: 6.59 Moderate bias towards physical
    Overall: 256

    Though I don't really know what this shows exactly, the minor difference in speed seems to have made a significant difference between the two, which seems to say that speed is more important than attack when it comes to "sweepiness", though Machamp's speed is hardly anything to brag about.

    And as always with BSR's, there are so many factors otherwise, so don't take it too seriously.

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