Switch to ghost type when struggle appears? :L Shanderraa with Calm Mind preferably
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Octillery
- Thread starter alphatron
- Start date
In gen 5 apparently they did away with "typeless" as a type classification of moves.
Ghosts will intuitively be immune to Struggle because it is indeed normal now.
http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-bw/struggle.shtml
Ghosts will intuitively be immune to Struggle because it is indeed normal now.
http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-bw/struggle.shtml
It's literally been normal type since Gen II. It's always dealt typeless damage despite being normal type.
I like this. Technician Roserade seems perfect for something like this, and I like the fact that, as you say, it can still perform other roles than just getting rid of Octillery well.
Clear Smog also seems pretty sufficient, and anything with Perish Song ought to work just fine too (provided it's an auto-hit move and doesn't need to rely on accuracy).
Perish Song does indeed go through Protect.
Hell, you wouldn't even need to do that. After Octillery gets tagged with PS, it's on a 3-turn timer, meaning that it basically can't do its job before biting the dust. Might as well switch in a set-up sweeper and start setting up if he's dumb enough to stay in, LOL.
If Octillery is carrying Ice Beam, it could lose to Bulky Waters or something. :0 Or be PP stalled out by Blissey or some such. I thought the whole point was to use Toxic + inconsistent to stall stuff out... I wouldn't expect to see too many Octillery sacrificing Toxic for a coverage move that would leave it walled anyway.
Too gimmicky, too overspecialized, IMO. What uses would it have outside of stealing Inconsistent? :0 (I mean, aside from things like Kecleon, but he's already gimmicky....)
It would mainly have to be run with toxic spikes support if you don't have toxic- and a grounded poison, quite a few of which learn tspikes, should be run alongside an inconsistent user anyway. Plus I think +6 boiling water does 40-50% to blissey anyway, meaning surf would probably be a straight up 2hko. And who needs to toxic stall when you have +3-5 in all stats lol.
That struggle would be weaker than an unboosted gyarados waterfall. I really don't see how it would sweep any ubers team that was not already incredibly weakened. especially considering that you can't take more than 5 hits before you die to recoil as you lose 1/4 of your hp each time and only get 1/16 back from leftovers.
If inconsistent is a solid strategy why is using one moveslot to beat it too gimmicky? Plenty of pokemon use one moveslot to beat blissey/chansey only.
I suppose that's true. But then, it'd mean Roserade is still good to counter stuff, since it absorbs Toxic Spikes. Tentacruel too (if it carries Ice Beam instead of Energy Ball), but Tenta can't really do anything to Octillery, can it. :0
My point is, Octy can't beat everything. No Toxic means bulky Waters can tank his hits long enough to nail him with Toxic or something, (I dunno) Politoed can Perish Song him (...actually that's GG no matter what Octillery has); and no Flamethrower / Ice Beam means he's fodder for Mushy and Roserade.
+6 0 ev - nature octillery struggle raw attack power (bp times effective attack stat): 44,200
+6 max atk neutral nature octillery struggle raw attack power: 61,800
Max atk adamant gyrados waterfall raw attack power (with stab): 45,960
If octillery invests into it's attack (a possibility, also allows it to certainly beat blissey as opposed to letting it switch out and in and waste toxic, so running waterfall is not useless- his atk and sp atk are also the same) it becomes 33% stronger than gyrados's waterfall (so about the power of a lo waterfall). And even without that having an unresisted attack with power equal to a max atk gyarados's waterfall is still pretty decent.
Bulky water's can't toxic him, substitute, so he probably beats them anyway. Politoed also has to eat an energy ball. and since he can come out and in, multiple energy balls. True octillery can't beat everything. But if you don't run all those to beat him, he will be a very major threat and, barring bad luck, will probably beat you if used semi decently. No other pokemon can be beaten by hard counters and luck only, nothing else. The unique way he sets up, by protecting, is what makes him nearly unbeatable, by preventing you from actively wearing him down on the setup, and allowing you to set up much more than normal setuppers.
Trick is a crippling move on many defensive mons, not just chansey/blissey. And it is fundamently different in that, if you don't run trick, then that one pokemon gets walled by bliss. Not the end of the game. If you don't run anti-consistent, you get swept by octillery. The problem is that anti-consistent typically fares poorly against everything else, making it overspecialized, unlike trick, which also has utility against other pokemon as well.
Multi-Scale, Sand Throw, Swift Swim, Chlorophyll, Guts, Regeneration, Mischievous Heart, Speed Boost, Magic Guard, Unaware, Flash Fire, Herbivore, Lightningrod, Storm Drain, Encourage, Shadow Tag, Magic Guard, Serene Grace, and Technician are just a few abilities that stick out to me as nice to get rid of if the Skill Swap user is able to do it safely. There's also Bad Dreams if Darkrai manages to hang around, though I doubt that.
But "if the Skill Swap user is able to do it safely" is a pretty big catch in the first place. Looking over the list of users, only Dusclops, Dusknoir, Starmie, Mew, Celebi, Deoxys, and maybe Bronzong/Uxie/Cresselia stand out to me as Pokemon who can take a hit pretty well and don't get such huge benefits from their own ability that swapping it away is a huge risk. (e.g. swapping Natural Cure from Chansey/Blissey or Magic Guard from Rankurusu/Shinboraa is a dodgy idea).
Yeah, that's the real catch, isn't it. :0 Even then, it's tough to find a practical use for whatever ability you happen to borrow, especially since you lose the ability when you switch out (I think you do, that is). I rather just run a Tracer so I don't have to waste a moveslot on it.
...hm.... Trace. >w> Prevo Stone Porygon2, anyone?
Toxic is still a big problem for Trace users, but yeah it could work.
Uh, there's already a decent number of Pory2s running around carrying Trace. It's not a specialized counter at all.
But that in itself isn't overcentralization if you're using something that's completely viable normally.