Octillery

[voodoo pimp]

The problem is that Octillery can only run two slots for offense. If you don't run Surf, you get owned by Heatran. If you don't run Energy Ball/Toxic, you get owned by bulky waters. And then what do you do against Nattorei?

And the fact that you have to run three different counters, two of which are specific Pokémon, doesn't bother you?

 

[Enlong]

I think he was referring to the choice that Octillery users have to make when building up their moveset.

 

[XienZo]

And the fact that you have to run three different counters, two of which are specific Pokémon, doesn't bother you?

Isn't Heatran, Nattorei, and a bulky water your generic FWG core nowadays though? I mean, you're likely going to have at least one, if not more, than one of those, and it's only if Octillery has the right moves can it actually beat the ones you have.

 

[lmitchell0012]

I hate to ruin your fun here, but you do realize that no matter what kind of a set you're running, clefable can easily wall you all day. Above average special defense, access to instant recovery and wish, being faster than you, and having unaware just screams "ultimate counter to octillery".

 

[XienZo]

I hate to ruin your fun here, but you do realize that no matter what kind of a set you're running, clefable can easily wall you all day. Above average special defense, access to instant recovery and wish, being faster than you, and having unaware just screams "ultimate counter to octillery".

It gets Toxic'd. Since, as it turns out, you can't have both Unaware and Magic Guard at the same time. :P

 

[lmitchell0012]

It gets Toxic'd. Since, as it turns out, you can't have both Unaware and Magic Guard at the same time. :P

You don't need magic guard. Since she naturally outspeeds him, she can just set up a substitute, use toxic, and then proceed to wish stall you all day.

 

[XienZo]

You don't need magic guard. Since she naturally outspeeds him, she can just set up a substitute, use toxic, and then proceed to wish stall you all day.

Also, unless things have changed this gen, Unaware doesn't affect speed boosts.

 

[j99ubers]

And most Octillery teams use Toxic Spikes so outspeeding doesnt matter if it gets poisoned on the switch in.

 

[lmitchell0012]

And most Octillery teams use Toxic Spikes so outspeeding doesnt matter if it gets poisoned on the switch in.

That problem can easily be remedied with a berry. And basically, what you're saying is that octillery needs support in order to beat clefable. So, in a 1 on 1 match, he would still lose.

 

[j99ubers]

So basically to check Inconsistent, you're willing to run a Clefable without Magic Guard and basically sacrifice your item to run a berry. That Clefable seems generally useless in the rest of the metagame, so in addition to Inconsistent making the game more luck based, allowing poor players to sweep skilled players, it also becomes ridiculously overcentralising.

 

[Khan!!!]

Or Octillery could get a Speed boost, Attack before you can encore, and ruin your plan right there. It won't KO, but Chatot isin't coming back in and doing that ever again. Quit assuming the only thing Inconsistent Pokes do is Substall. They can easily attack to get rid of the Pokes that can't be hit by Toxic. The Steels risk getting burned, making them usless, the Flying types just get attacked until they die, and hell, Octillery could run Flamethrower/Energy Ball to quickly kill those pokes.

well yes, every broken inconsistent user is going to sub stall. and if it doesnt it wouldnt be much of a problem.

 

[XienZo]

That problem can easily be remedied with a berry. And basically, what you're saying is that octillery needs support in order to beat clefable. So, in a 1 on 1 match, he would still lose.

Alas, as it turns out, the standard ladder is 6v6, not 1v1...

 

[lmitchell0012]

Alas, as it turns out, the standard ladder is 6v6, not 1v1...

bummer...

 

[Arc Tech]

Octillery breaks clefables subs with surf provided it has invested in sp atk (probably without as well, since it's a 3hko with max sp atk and clefable having max sp def). Not to mention if it's originally slower and then gets a speed boost, it will get a double attack before clefable can sub, and even if it has lum will get the opportunity to toxic every time clefable heals. Octillery also has a chance to posion clefable when it heals even when it's slower, provided proper prediction.

 

[Khan!!!]

umbreon could possibly counter octillery if you can predict a toxic and switch into it.

 

[Arc Tech]

umbreon could possibly counter octillery if you can predict a toxic and switch into it.

That's the best suggestion you've had so far (read: only really viable). But umbreon probably wouldn't be the best user, and it would fail if Octillery has toxic spikes support (since it is used alongside a grounded poison this is not rare).

 

[Darkamber8828]

umbreon could possibly counter octillery if you can predict a toxic and switch into it.

KOing a pokemon by KOing yourself=/=countering

therefore,

crippling a pokemon by crippling yourself=/=good idea

Anyway, Octillery is a sweeper. It can still wreak havoc before it succumbs to Toxic damage.

 

[Mazaki Anzu]

Everyone in this thread

This is the Broctillery set I'm running

Octillery (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Inconsistent
EVs: 144 HP / 112 Atk / 76 Def / 16 SAtk / 76 SDef / 84 Spd
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Substitute
- Protect
- Boil Over
- Gunk Shot

Acid bomb + Waterfall seems viable too, but I like the burn chances of Boil over and the poison chances of Gunk shot

Things that resist poison + water

Note that when I say "2hko after boost" I mean you need +6 to ko them

Empoleon: 2hko by Boil over after boost, kills octillery if he gets shitty boost. You need Spc attack, speed and spc def/evasion boosts
Tentacruel: 2hko by boil over after boosts, kills octillery he gets shitty boost and runs anything besides boil over or knock off (read: sludge bomb). Need s atk, speed and s def/evasion boosts. burning help if you get bad boosts
Burungeru: 2hko by Gunk shot boosted, cant kill back after one s def boost or if he only runs boil over. he at least got recover, unlike the other, so he's harder to kill (max hp max def is 2hko'd) he's the reason why i sometimes run bullet seed. poison helps to deal with him if you get bad boost, but watch out for the pps
Qwilfish: lol no
Nattorei: 2kod with boil over after boosted, its annoying if he runs power whip because even with max defense he will break your subs. Thankfully power whip has meh accuracy and one evasion boost can fix that problem, still, hes annoying to deal with. burning with boil over is an option if you dont get shitty boost (like - s atk and + atk)
Quagsire: havent faced one yet. seems annoying because he can recover and encore, still, after some defense boost you shouldt have problems with him. probably 2hko after boosts
Gamareroge: Ditto quagsire without recover and encore
Gastrodon: Ditto quagsire without encore

Note that this is assuming the best scenarios most of the time: Sometimes you will get bad boost like +accuracy -defenses or +atk -s atk while facing something that you can only attack with boil over, like nattorei.

plus you have to know where switch in octillery because he cant take many hits without boosts. also,beware of toxic spikes or weather (as it negates your leftovers)

he wreck entire teams if theyre unprepared and can wreak holes in better prepared teams (like teams that actually run a bulky electric like rotom water or haze/roar like vaporeon)

hes not invincible and you need some skills to use it, but if you do it correctly youll get a huge reward: a complete sweep.

octillery is just a coin toss: sometimes you win and sometimes you loss. you just have to maximize the odds of winning. in my experience hes just annoying, not invincible, and unless you have bad luck (all evasion for example), if he sweeps you then get a better team.

EDIT:
Perish song politoed also counters octillery
So does perish song altaria if you dont run ice beam, which no one is running nowdays

 

[XienZo]

KOing a pokemon by KOing yourself=/=countering

therefore,

crippling a pokemon by crippling yourself=/=good idea

Anyway, Octillery is a sweeper. It can still wreak havoc before it succumbs to Toxic damage.

Umbreon DOES get Heal Bell, though, IIRC.

Edit:

Also, while it's not completely OU material otherwise, one of Shinpora's main sets, Cosmic Power/Assist Power/Roost/filler(Whirlwind/Miracle Eye) could probably out-boost an Inconsistant user, since Cosmic Power simultaneously boosts both its defenses and its main attack while Magic Guard lets it ignore Toxic.

Edit2: I just realized both of its filler attacks also lol at Inconsistant users. And by complete coincidence too!

 

[Twins]

I started using Inconsistent Octillery way back in October, when it was regarded as a gimmick, rather than something bannable. I used a 3 attack+ submersion set (I think it's based off something on the first page of this), and it worked pretty well. Especially Huntail passing Shell Smashes to it. Here's a log I dug up from a long time ago:

Hide

Battle between Twins and Pein started!

Tier: OverUsed
Rule: Unrated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Freeze Clause
Rule: Evasion Clause
Rule: OHKO Clause

Pein sent out Saucer! (Nattorei)
Twins sent out Politoed!
Politoed's Drizzle made it rain!
Pein: gl hf

Start of turn 1
Politoed used Protect!
Politoed protected itself!

The foe's Saucer used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around Twins's team!

Rain continues to fall!

Start of turn 2
Politoed used Encore!
The foe's Saucer received an encore!

The foe's Saucer used Stealth Rock!
But it failed!

Rain continues to fall!

Start of turn 3
Pein called Saucer back!
Pein sent out Unknown! (Genosekuto)

The foe's Unknown's Download activates!
The foe's Unknown's Attack rose!
Politoed used Hypnosis!
The attack of Politoed missed!

Rain continues to fall!

Start of turn 4
The foe's Unknown used Charge Beam!
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Politoed lost 154 HP! (40% of its health)
The foe's Unknown's Sp. Att. rose!

Politoed used Hypnosis!
The foe's Unknown fell asleep!

Rain continues to fall!
Politoed restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 5
Twins called Politoed back!
Twins sent out Huntail!
Pointed stones dug into Huntail!

The foe's Unknown is fast asleep!

Rain continues to fall!

Start of turn 6
Huntail used Shell Smash!
Huntail's Defense fell!
Huntail's Sp. Def. fell!
Huntail's Attack sharply rose!
Huntail's Sp. Att. sharply rose!
Huntail's Speed sharply rose!

The foe's Unknown is fast asleep!

Rain continues to fall!

Start of turn 7
Huntail used Baton Pass!
Twins called Huntail back!
Twins sent out Octillery!
Pointed stones dug into Octillery!

The foe's Unknown is fast asleep!

Rain continues to fall!
Octillery's Inconsistent sharply raises its Sp. Def.!
Octillery's Inconsistent lowers its Defense!

Start of turn 8
Octillery used Submersion!
The foe's Unknown became of the Water type!

The foe's Unknown woke up!
The foe's Unknown used Charge Beam!
It's super effective!
Octillery lost 144 HP! (49% of its health)
The foe's Unknown's Sp. Att. rose!

Rain continues to fall!
Octillery's Inconsistent sharply raises its Evasion!
Octillery's Inconsistent lowers its Sp. Att.!

Start of turn 9
Octillery used Energy Ball!
It's super effective!
The foe's Unknown lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Unknown fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
Octillery's Inconsistent sharply raises its Evasion!
Octillery's Inconsistent lowers its Speed!
Pein: how?
Pein: iam steel
Pein: and bug
Twins: submersion makes you a water type
Twins: check the log
Pein: o
Pein sent out Monty Mole! (Doryuuzu)
Twins: pretty cool eh

The foe's Monty Mole has Mold Breaker!

Start of turn 10
The foe's Monty Mole used Earthquake!
Octillery avoided the attack!

Octillery used Boil Over!
It's super effective!
Pein: i guess
The foe's Monty Mole lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Monty Mole fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
Octillery's Inconsistent sharply raises its Evasion!
Octillery's Inconsistent lowers its Defense!
Pein: :l
Pein sent out BLASH! (Metagross)

Start of turn 11
Octillery used Boil Over!
Pein: raising evasion -.-
The foe's BLASH lost 100% of its health!
The foe's BLASH fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
Octillery's Inconsistent sharply raises its Speed!
Octillery's Inconsistent lowers its Attack!
Pein sent out DEVIOUS! (Heatran)

Twins: speed now
Pein: Evasion=cheap
Twins: its random

Start of turn 12
Octillery used Boil Over!
It's super effective!
The foe's DEVIOUS lost 100% of its health!
The foe's DEVIOUS fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
Octillery's Inconsistent sharply raises its Sp. Def.!
Octillery's Inconsistent lowers its Attack!
Pein: i don't like it -.-
Pein: check at da top
Pein sent out DOT DOT! (Registeel)

Twins: ya but idk why it still works

Start of turn 13
Octillery used Boil Over!
The foe's DOT DOT lost 57% of its health!
The foe's DOT DOT was burned!

The foe's DOT DOT used Seismic Toss!
The attack of the foe's DOT DOT missed!

Rain continues to fall!
Octillery's Inconsistent sharply raises its Attack!
Octillery's Inconsistent lowers its Sp. Def.!
The foe's DOT DOT restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
The foe's DOT DOT is hurt by its burn!
Pein: cause it didn't program
Pein: to do dat
Twins: its probably a bug they missed
Pein: 6 evasion :l

Start of turn 14
Octillery used Boil Over!
The foe's DOT DOT lost 35% of its health!
The foe's DOT DOT fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
Octillery's Inconsistent sharply raises its Defense!
Octillery's Inconsistent lowers its Speed!
Pein sent out Saucer! (Nattorei)

Start of turn 15
Octillery used Boil Over!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Saucer lost 32% of its health!

The foe's Saucer used Gyro Ball!
The attack of the foe's Saucer missed!

Rain continues to fall!
Octillery's Inconsistent sharply raises its Sp. Att.!
Octillery's Inconsistent lowers its Evasion!
The foe's Saucer restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 16
Octillery used Submersion!
The foe's Saucer became of the Water type!

The foe's Saucer used Gyro Ball!
The attack of the foe's Saucer missed!

Rain continues to fall!
Octillery's Inconsistent sharply raises its Attack!
Octillery's Inconsistent lowers its Sp. Def.!
The foe's Saucer restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Twins: ya, inconsistent is really unfair

Start of turn 17
Octillery used Energy Ball!
It's super effective!
Pein: ya THINK
The foe's Saucer lost 79% of its health!
The foe's Saucer fainted!

Twins won the battle!
Twins: yay! we win!
Pein: .................................gg
Twins: gg
Pein: nope :l
Pein: no gg
Pein: Y evasion
Twins: +2 for just -1
Pein: y
Pein: EVASION
Twins: its random
Pein: +2 EVASION
Pein: 3 TIMES
Twins: i guess I was lucky
Pein: 6 EVASION
Twins: of all the stats it could have raised...
Pein: i ain't
Pein: considering
Pein: a gg
Pein: :l
Twins: ya, ur right

This set is even more so gimmicky than the average inconsistent set. A couple of things to note:
1. The Sp def boost saved me from dying from charge beam.
2. +2 evasion 3 TIMES IN A ROW.
3. Then +2 speed, how helpful (although I did have that shell smash boost).

I have since removed both Octillery and Huntail from my rain dance team. I was using Inconsistent at first to be original, but now the Sub+Protect set seems to be the norm.

 

[Khan!!!]

KOing a pokemon by KOing yourself=/=countering

therefore,

crippling a pokemon by crippling yourself=/=good idea

Anyway, Octillery is a sweeper. It can still wreak havoc before it succumbs to Toxic damage.

it sure is a good idea if it means countering something that can sweep your team. by that logic explosion was never a good idea at all. (which isnt true)

 

[Kiorein]

Does Synchronize go through Subs?

 

[Khan!!!]

Does Synchronize go through Subs?

yea

 

[happy ham]

I'm running a defensive spread with Sub, Protect, t-wave and Surf.

Paralysis works best for me because it makes it even less likely octy will get hit at all, giving him more boosts.

t-wave + evasion is a freaking bitch.

Burungeru walls it, but that's what team support is for.

 

[Enlong]

Getting off the subject of Inconsistent for a moment: what do you think of him using Submersion (the move that turns the target's type to Water)? He could respond to stuff that would otherwise wall him by turning them into Water types, to threaten them with Bullet Seed/Energy Ball.