And this is the problem with the strategy. I think a good standard for what is broken is "the opponent cannot reasonably counter it without some sort of absurdity", with the "absurdities" meaning stuff like sets that are worthless for everything but countering the one set and extreme luck. The problem with Inconsistent is that even if you respond to it perfectly and have a team that should be good for dealing with it, you can still get screwed over by pure bad luck. It goes beyond just the standard critical hit/random freeze/burn/etc issues common in Pokemon, you can't possibly have something that is immune to getting Inconsistent screwed without it being an absurdly worthless set for the rest of OU (some weak Unaware stuff). That's also a fairly key difference between it and Sand Veil/Snow Cloak; you can actually counter those evasion boosts by changing the weather. Your ability to counter Inconsistent is directly linked to how many boosts Inconsistent gives.
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 1 - ...wait, I'm not Jumpman16!
- Thread starter Philip7086
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May start using Haze / Toxic Spikes Tentacruel more often. Seems like it should help with much of this inconsistent fad going on right now.
Inconsistent is a hit-or-miss ability. You basically get 3 chances to get the boosts you need. Protect, get attacked, Protect. Since none of the pokemon are particularly bulky, they typically can only survive one strong hit.
If those 3 turns don't give you the right boosts, you've basically wasted a team slot. But if they do, then you can rampage all over the battle field.
It's entirely luck based. Good luck = probable sweep. Bad luck = dead pokemon.
If those 3 turns don't give you the right boosts, you've basically wasted a team slot. But if they do, then you can rampage all over the battle field.
It's entirely luck based. Good luck = probable sweep. Bad luck = dead pokemon.
However, that is almost exactly the case with Evasion and OHKO. Good luck = probable sweep or OHKOing a Pokemon while bad luck means you just wasted a precious moveslot and possibly your Pokemon. However, the point is that it takes virtually no skill to abuse, you don't need to think about what move to use when, but all you need to do is just click a button and hope for the best.
Just FYI: No, Toxic Spikes DONT always work. I'll happily send my Vaporeon in on your Tentacruel, set up a sub and BP to Octillery. Voila, no TS activation.
A good inconsistent user, and not some mindless idiot looking for a bit of luck will likely have a spinner (I've found Tentacruel the best as it can lay down Toxic Spikes making stuff much easier for my Inconsistent user) and I've been using it with a Wobb (Inconsistent + Shadow Tag is ridiculous together). The Wobb frees up a turn to set up a sub for Octillery, leading to greater chances of success.
Octillery + Wobb + Tentacruel is the core of my team. I barely even need the other three to win. And I don't feel my team requires any skill to win whatsoever, it's broken as hell and it just works without even having to think, or predict.
Other Pokemon I have though are a CB T-Tar with pursuit (only reason I use it) and some ground/electric resists.
Octillery + Wobb + Tentacruel is the core of my team. I barely even need the other three to win. And I don't feel my team requires any skill to win whatsoever, it's broken as hell and it just works without even having to think, or predict.
Other Pokemon I have though are a CB T-Tar with pursuit (only reason I use it) and some ground/electric resists.
No, you get as many chances as Sub + Leftovers would allow. When they break your sub, you sub again. What if my Grass type only had Leaf Storm for Octillery? Good, you sub again. Keep Subbing and protecting until you can KO or can't anymore.
Wrong. Max Attack SpecsOgre Thunder does 29.38% - 35.03% on max/max Octillery with +6 Special Defense. Not only that, you seem to be forgetting that Modest Kyogre is faster than Jolly Smeargle, which means Kyogre outspeeds and KOes with any move.
Im also glad Smeargle cannot use protect to hope for a free boost.
Locked into Thunder is not a fun situation to be in (Gogogo Claw Sharpen Dugtrio, hehehe).
Are you forgetting Smeargle can learn every move in the game (Apart from lolChatter)?? EDIT: Yeah sorry, I'm immune to sarcasm, lol
@Vaz:
Looking a the list of Perish Song users, its not very good. The only ones that are useful to your team are Celebi, Gengar and possibly Mismagius and Lapras. Both Celebi and Gengar have better things to do; namely tanking the shit out of everything or sweeping the shit out of everything, respectively. Other than that, however, I can't say much about this.
Haze, and pHazing in general, is valid, however Haze is a bit rare in my experience.
I honestly had to look up Clear Smog. After looking at the list of Pokemon that learn it, very few could/would use it viably. Only Weezing and Shrooms will be using it regularly. Maybe. Everything else that has Clear Smog either isn't seen enough to care or has better things to do with its time.
Not only is Unaware rare as shit, its "prime" users are using a different ability anyway. Bibarel is using Inconsistent, and Quagsire has competition between Unaware and Water Absorb.
And as for Toxic Spikes, just don't let it get set up. When using Salamence you don't let Stealth Rocks get up, when using Tyranitar avoid Toxic Spikes/Spikes.
As Shrang mentioned, the you only need to click and hope for the best.
edit: fuckers stop posting :(
Looking a the list of Perish Song users, its not very good. The only ones that are useful to your team are Celebi, Gengar and possibly Mismagius and Lapras. Both Celebi and Gengar have better things to do; namely tanking the shit out of everything or sweeping the shit out of everything, respectively. Other than that, however, I can't say much about this.
Haze, and pHazing in general, is valid, however Haze is a bit rare in my experience.
I honestly had to look up Clear Smog. After looking at the list of Pokemon that learn it, very few could/would use it viably. Only Weezing and Shrooms will be using it regularly. Maybe. Everything else that has Clear Smog either isn't seen enough to care or has better things to do with its time.
Not only is Unaware rare as shit, its "prime" users are using a different ability anyway. Bibarel is using Inconsistent, and Quagsire has competition between Unaware and Water Absorb.
And as for Toxic Spikes, just don't let it get set up. When using Salamence you don't let Stealth Rocks get up, when using Tyranitar avoid Toxic Spikes/Spikes.
As Shrang mentioned, the you only need to click and hope for the best.
edit: fuckers stop posting :(
I am anti-Inconsistent. I, personally, think we should ban it.
I was out-lining how it is dumb luck and there is no control whatsoever.
Don't be so quick to jump down my throat about it.
Read above.
Also, Octillery, as I said, needs to get the Speed boost on that first turn so it can go first. It's so slow that most offensive pokemon can attack before it Subs and get it to <25% so that it cannot Sub.
Of course, defensive pokemon are basically set-up fodder for it. They let it get a free Sub ad then it can truly become broken. But that's not my point. My point is in my reply to shrang, directly above.
i don't understand what you mean by 'Every official console game released has included sleep clause'...which pokemon game that exists has sleep clause?
As far as inconistent goes, it is a potentially defining strategy of the metagame, as were Psychic sweeps, SkarmBliss, and DragonSteel in the past. The difference is that this is fairly luck based. Left alone, this will be the dominant strategy, or one of them, of the generation. As a community, we may choose if we want our dominant strategy to be based on luck. I personally do not believe that is the best choice. Therefore, I once again support an inconsistent ban.
More than just that, it's BORING. Octillery stallwars are among the dullest things in the game, and I'm including 3rd gen Wobbuwars. You know, the ones that COULD NOT POSSIBLY END.
Let's not have 5th-gen's legacy be "the unbearably boring, luck-based generation".
Okay, here are my thoughts on the current metagame.
Biggest Threats (Top 3)
Threat level measured in stars.
1. Manaphy-******
-Seriously, the Wacan berry set in the rain is insane. There are very few pokemon that can guarantee a OHKO on it, before it gets out of control. A example is that a CB Outrage from a Garchomp will very rarely OHKO 4hp Manaphy with out at least one layer of entry hazards. The only pokemon that I can think of off the top of my head are Choice Specs Latios, and Shaymin-s. If Manaphy is already at +3, then they can't really switch in safely. Latios can come in a +3 Surf or Grassnot and proceed to OHKO the 4 Hp versions with Draco meteor. Manaphy can easily get past most of its checks with Grassnot destroying bulky water types. Under screens, it's basically GG. Manaphy is by far the scariest pokemon ever in OU, almost comparable to Kyogre.
Ban Worthy: Without a doubt definitely yes.
2. Darkrai-*****
Unless you have a sleeptalker, or something that's immune to sleep, then it basically renders one of your pokemon useless. After it proceeds to put one of your pokemon, it gets a free +2 with nasty plot, and to remind you, it has 135 base attack! Dark pulse and focus blast offer nearly prefect coverage, resisted by Toxicroak, whose as frail as heck, and Heracross. Blissey can also stop its sweep with Thunderwave, but Darkrai could have Substitute to evade that. Darkrai is somewhat manageable, because of the prevalence of all the new fighting types and Mach Punch. Darkrai is also bulky enough to take a hit or two (survives a +0 LO Doryuzu Earthquake). With the cost of power Darkrai can run a Chople berry to and get past its checks.
Ban Worthy: Yeah, its pretty scary
3. Shaymin-S-*****
Its not such a huge threat to me team anymore, but this things rips teams apart. Shaymin-s outspeeds nearly all the metagame, and can flinch most of it to death. It has fairly decent bulk, but it has a Stealth rock weakness.
Seed flare makes switching in a difficult challenge. Registeel is noted, that it can easily switch in with out any fear. But seriously who is going to use Registeel, its set up bait. Shaymin-s can Leech seed registeel to make it even harder to difficult to beat. I'm glad that Shaymin-s checks manaphy, but it is clearly too strong.
Ban Worthy: Yes, it is just too much for OU.
Other Huge threats.
Deoxys-A/Normal Deoxys-****
-If you don't have priority, or a scarfer then it will rip through your team easily. It also forces switches easily, and can set up a Sub to get past some of its checks.
Ban Worthy: Yes, it outspeeds nearly everything and wrecks it. Substitute makes it even worse.
Latios-****
130 base special attack and 110 speed are monstrous. A specs Draco meteor will wreck everything in the tier, with the exception of Blissey/Chansey. Even most Steel types will take a huge hit.
Ban Worthy: Yes, Draco meteor spammage is not fun at all.
Doryuuzu-****
-If it gets a chance to set up then its extremely hard to stop. After a Swords dance the only methods of getting past it is Priority moves such as Mach punch, Aqua Jet and Vaccuum Wave. Another way is to send out a very bulky pokemon, such as Hippowdon and Suicune. Bronzong and Skarmory don't really count because they can't really do much back. With a balloon it can easily get past it's checks, and with a chople berry, it can get past most other threats. Also of note, though gimmicky, Scarf Deoxys can easily OHKO with Superpower.
Ban Worthy: I'm leaning towards no, since priority users are very prevalent in this metagame, and weather changers make it much less threatening.
Poltioed-***
Poiltoed is no wear near as threatening as the other ones, but's its Drizzle that allows other pokemon like Manaphy to be beyond broken. Politioed can be quite powerful since it's water type attacks are boosted.
Ban Worthy: Yes, because it's the sole pokemon that makes Manaphy so overwhelming.
Wobbuffet-***
I haven't really seen many of these but they are certainly annoying. But they can guarantee a free set up turn, which can be breaking especially with Lucario, Shaymin-S, Doryuuzu, Manaphy, Darkrai, Garchomp, Ulgamoth, Cloyster.....and the list goes on. It also can easily remove walls with tickle, and revenge choice item users. The custap berry can also net a couple of kills.
Ban Worthy: Yes, it can shift the game into where your pokemon are literally massacring the opponents team.
Kingdra-****
With rain, it's a total beast. It can outspeed also dragons, even scarf Latios, and pound them into the ground with outrage. It can attack from both sides of the spectrum, and cause massive damage. There are few decent checks though, such as Empoleon and Natteorei.
Ban Worthy: Possibly, It's up to par with Doryuuzu or may even higher since it can be mixed and wreck everything.
Notable mentions:
Ditto-***
Pretty much the perfect revenge killer.
Ban Worthy: No, Substitute screws it up, and it is isnt really threatening unless it copies boosts.
Garchomp-****
With Sandstorm, it becomes almost as threatening as Doryuzu, it has more bulk and sand veil makes it tricky to counter.
Ban Worthy: Possibly, it is quite threatening since it outspeeds most things, and it has decent bulk, it can get past most of its checks.
Latias-***
Weaker than her brother, but it's still a threat, it can easily set up on more pokemon because it has great bulk.
Ban Worthy: No, it isnt nearly as threatening as the other threats. It is a great supporter and can be played offensively.
Mew-***
A great baton passer, and is very unpredictable. Can pass a +2 in just about every stat. Hypnosis, though unreliable can put a damper on its checks.
Ban Worthy: Leaning towards no, since it really only has one huge niche and that's baton passing.
Deoxys-S-***
Still a good spiker, though not as good as it was last generation. It can also be used a good revenge killer.
Ban Worthy: No, it really isnt very threatening, as there quite a few leads that will stop it from getting down at least 2 layers or spikes.
Salamence-****
It's still a huge threat, and can wreck teams with Draco meteor, Hydro Pump, Outrage, Fire blast. There arent really many good switchins. You just have to predict right to aviod it ripping your team to shreds.
Ban Worthy: Possibly, it is really dangerous and will wreck just any pokemon that switches in.
Kyurem-***
Horrible defensive typing, but it has a BST of 660, and it's ability doesnt hinder it. it's also very bulky and extremely destructive since it has 130 Base attack in each stat, and has decent speed, which though is just below many prominent threats. Also worth a mention, is that it really struggles with Steel types, having to resort to Focus blast and Hidden Power Fire.
Ban Worthy: No, it is really dangerous and will wreck just any pokemon that switches in. It is fairly manageable though, since it has a Stealth Rock weakness, and is outsped by most other dragons.
Other
Ninetailes-**
Sets up eternal sun, but really isn't very threatening, and has Stealth rock weakness.
Ban Worthy: Probably not, Sunny day teams arent nearly as threatening Rain and Sandstorm teams can be.
I'm not sure If they're DW Abilities are released but a few would be particularly threatening :
Blaziken-****
Shandera-***
Volbeat-***
Biggest Threats (Top 3)
Threat level measured in stars.
1. Manaphy-******
-Seriously, the Wacan berry set in the rain is insane. There are very few pokemon that can guarantee a OHKO on it, before it gets out of control. A example is that a CB Outrage from a Garchomp will very rarely OHKO 4hp Manaphy with out at least one layer of entry hazards. The only pokemon that I can think of off the top of my head are Choice Specs Latios, and Shaymin-s. If Manaphy is already at +3, then they can't really switch in safely. Latios can come in a +3 Surf or Grassnot and proceed to OHKO the 4 Hp versions with Draco meteor. Manaphy can easily get past most of its checks with Grassnot destroying bulky water types. Under screens, it's basically GG. Manaphy is by far the scariest pokemon ever in OU, almost comparable to Kyogre.
Ban Worthy: Without a doubt definitely yes.
2. Darkrai-*****
Unless you have a sleeptalker, or something that's immune to sleep, then it basically renders one of your pokemon useless. After it proceeds to put one of your pokemon, it gets a free +2 with nasty plot, and to remind you, it has 135 base attack! Dark pulse and focus blast offer nearly prefect coverage, resisted by Toxicroak, whose as frail as heck, and Heracross. Blissey can also stop its sweep with Thunderwave, but Darkrai could have Substitute to evade that. Darkrai is somewhat manageable, because of the prevalence of all the new fighting types and Mach Punch. Darkrai is also bulky enough to take a hit or two (survives a +0 LO Doryuzu Earthquake). With the cost of power Darkrai can run a Chople berry to and get past its checks.
Ban Worthy: Yeah, its pretty scary
3. Shaymin-S-*****
Its not such a huge threat to me team anymore, but this things rips teams apart. Shaymin-s outspeeds nearly all the metagame, and can flinch most of it to death. It has fairly decent bulk, but it has a Stealth rock weakness.
Seed flare makes switching in a difficult challenge. Registeel is noted, that it can easily switch in with out any fear. But seriously who is going to use Registeel, its set up bait. Shaymin-s can Leech seed registeel to make it even harder to difficult to beat. I'm glad that Shaymin-s checks manaphy, but it is clearly too strong.
Ban Worthy: Yes, it is just too much for OU.
Other Huge threats.
Deoxys-A/Normal Deoxys-****
-If you don't have priority, or a scarfer then it will rip through your team easily. It also forces switches easily, and can set up a Sub to get past some of its checks.
Ban Worthy: Yes, it outspeeds nearly everything and wrecks it. Substitute makes it even worse.
Latios-****
130 base special attack and 110 speed are monstrous. A specs Draco meteor will wreck everything in the tier, with the exception of Blissey/Chansey. Even most Steel types will take a huge hit.
Ban Worthy: Yes, Draco meteor spammage is not fun at all.
Doryuuzu-****
-If it gets a chance to set up then its extremely hard to stop. After a Swords dance the only methods of getting past it is Priority moves such as Mach punch, Aqua Jet and Vaccuum Wave. Another way is to send out a very bulky pokemon, such as Hippowdon and Suicune. Bronzong and Skarmory don't really count because they can't really do much back. With a balloon it can easily get past it's checks, and with a chople berry, it can get past most other threats. Also of note, though gimmicky, Scarf Deoxys can easily OHKO with Superpower.
Ban Worthy: I'm leaning towards no, since priority users are very prevalent in this metagame, and weather changers make it much less threatening.
Poltioed-***
Poiltoed is no wear near as threatening as the other ones, but's its Drizzle that allows other pokemon like Manaphy to be beyond broken. Politioed can be quite powerful since it's water type attacks are boosted.
Ban Worthy: Yes, because it's the sole pokemon that makes Manaphy so overwhelming.
Wobbuffet-***
I haven't really seen many of these but they are certainly annoying. But they can guarantee a free set up turn, which can be breaking especially with Lucario, Shaymin-S, Doryuuzu, Manaphy, Darkrai, Garchomp, Ulgamoth, Cloyster.....and the list goes on. It also can easily remove walls with tickle, and revenge choice item users. The custap berry can also net a couple of kills.
Ban Worthy: Yes, it can shift the game into where your pokemon are literally massacring the opponents team.
Kingdra-****
With rain, it's a total beast. It can outspeed also dragons, even scarf Latios, and pound them into the ground with outrage. It can attack from both sides of the spectrum, and cause massive damage. There are few decent checks though, such as Empoleon and Natteorei.
Ban Worthy: Possibly, It's up to par with Doryuuzu or may even higher since it can be mixed and wreck everything.
Notable mentions:
Ditto-***
Pretty much the perfect revenge killer.
Ban Worthy: No, Substitute screws it up, and it is isnt really threatening unless it copies boosts.
Garchomp-****
With Sandstorm, it becomes almost as threatening as Doryuzu, it has more bulk and sand veil makes it tricky to counter.
Ban Worthy: Possibly, it is quite threatening since it outspeeds most things, and it has decent bulk, it can get past most of its checks.
Latias-***
Weaker than her brother, but it's still a threat, it can easily set up on more pokemon because it has great bulk.
Ban Worthy: No, it isnt nearly as threatening as the other threats. It is a great supporter and can be played offensively.
Mew-***
A great baton passer, and is very unpredictable. Can pass a +2 in just about every stat. Hypnosis, though unreliable can put a damper on its checks.
Ban Worthy: Leaning towards no, since it really only has one huge niche and that's baton passing.
Deoxys-S-***
Still a good spiker, though not as good as it was last generation. It can also be used a good revenge killer.
Ban Worthy: No, it really isnt very threatening, as there quite a few leads that will stop it from getting down at least 2 layers or spikes.
Salamence-****
It's still a huge threat, and can wreck teams with Draco meteor, Hydro Pump, Outrage, Fire blast. There arent really many good switchins. You just have to predict right to aviod it ripping your team to shreds.
Ban Worthy: Possibly, it is really dangerous and will wreck just any pokemon that switches in.
Kyurem-***
Horrible defensive typing, but it has a BST of 660, and it's ability doesnt hinder it. it's also very bulky and extremely destructive since it has 130 Base attack in each stat, and has decent speed, which though is just below many prominent threats. Also worth a mention, is that it really struggles with Steel types, having to resort to Focus blast and Hidden Power Fire.
Ban Worthy: No, it is really dangerous and will wreck just any pokemon that switches in. It is fairly manageable though, since it has a Stealth Rock weakness, and is outsped by most other dragons.
Other
Ninetailes-**
Sets up eternal sun, but really isn't very threatening, and has Stealth rock weakness.
Ban Worthy: Probably not, Sunny day teams arent nearly as threatening Rain and Sandstorm teams can be.
I'm not sure If they're DW Abilities are released but a few would be particularly threatening :
Blaziken-****
Shandera-***
Volbeat-***
If I may pose a quick question (when I mean ban I mean relegate to Ubers): Given the choice of a) not banning either Politoed or Manaphy, b) banning Manaphy, c) banning Politoed, or d) banning both?
I personally haven't had too much trouble with Skymin, although I suppose an Ice Shard user (looking at you, Mamoswine) really helps when countering. Jolteon also does well with killing off Shaymin-S, though it's too frail against priority.
Not much to say about Manaphy; it was underwhelming in my experience (when compared to the "hype"), and I haven't really battled one yet on the ladder. It did pretty well when compared to what was previously in that slot (Suicune), though.
Darkrai is extremely annoying. IMO Sleep is even worse than dying with the new mechanics, as you risk allowing your opponent to set up a lot of things, and you don't even get a free switch-in. Dark Pulse hurts a lot of things, especially when used in conjunction with Focus Blast. Jolteon can't really revenge Darkrai (69 - 82% with LO), and Roobushin only has a 46.15% to OHKO (this is with LO and IF), but it turns into a guaranteed OHKO with rocks.
Personally, I think that all three of these pokemon are quite strong. Manaphy is a lot less scary than some of its pixie cousins until it gets its turn to set up, which is when it gets a bit scarier, but 100 speed leaves quite a bit to be desired. Skymin and Darkrai pose a huge offensive and supportive threat (Air Slash/Seed Flare with Leech Seed/Sub and Nasty Plot/Dark Pulse/Focus Blast with Dark Void, respectively), and have the stats to do so. My verdict would be for to allow Manaphy to stay in OU, and send the other two off to Ubers. While Darkrai is the only threat that I currently cannot handle (in the 3 STEELDRAGON listed), I've seen Skymin on over a third of teams, which counts as overcentralizing in my books.
I personally haven't had too much trouble with Skymin, although I suppose an Ice Shard user (looking at you, Mamoswine) really helps when countering. Jolteon also does well with killing off Shaymin-S, though it's too frail against priority.
Not much to say about Manaphy; it was underwhelming in my experience (when compared to the "hype"), and I haven't really battled one yet on the ladder. It did pretty well when compared to what was previously in that slot (Suicune), though.
Darkrai is extremely annoying. IMO Sleep is even worse than dying with the new mechanics, as you risk allowing your opponent to set up a lot of things, and you don't even get a free switch-in. Dark Pulse hurts a lot of things, especially when used in conjunction with Focus Blast. Jolteon can't really revenge Darkrai (69 - 82% with LO), and Roobushin only has a 46.15% to OHKO (this is with LO and IF), but it turns into a guaranteed OHKO with rocks.
Personally, I think that all three of these pokemon are quite strong. Manaphy is a lot less scary than some of its pixie cousins until it gets its turn to set up, which is when it gets a bit scarier, but 100 speed leaves quite a bit to be desired. Skymin and Darkrai pose a huge offensive and supportive threat (Air Slash/Seed Flare with Leech Seed/Sub and Nasty Plot/Dark Pulse/Focus Blast with Dark Void, respectively), and have the stats to do so. My verdict would be for to allow Manaphy to stay in OU, and send the other two off to Ubers. While Darkrai is the only threat that I currently cannot handle (in the 3 STEELDRAGON listed), I've seen Skymin on over a third of teams, which counts as overcentralizing in my books.
I'm getting really tired of these insulting remarks. I don't even know why I even bother to answer these. Sure, I have a check to Octillery: Manaphy in the rain. That's not the point. The point is the lucky break that Octillery may have - maybe it'll get the right sharp Defense boost or the right sharp Speed boost or the right sharp Evasion boost or a sharp Special Attack boost. It is the luck-based nature of the "strategy" that's just not at all conducive to a healthy metagame.Vaz said:
If you cannot tell me that the metagame wouldn't be significantly improved by banning Inconsistent, then don't bother preaching about it. The Inconsistent discussion has run its course. Let's move onto something else unless someone has something new to add.
QFT
You said ban Politoed because it makes Manaphy broken. But you already said to ban Manaphy anyway.
How about Wobb? People complain about how broken it is, but I disagree. With no recovery outside of Leftovers-not even Rest-it can really only safely Encore non-damaging moves or defensive pokemon's attacks. But Wobb's insane slowness means that very few things will go after it.
Defensive 'mons would use a crippling move to be locked into. To cripple the swich-in.
Offensive pokes would simply attack and, in many cases, KO the thing.
Wobb can't tank hits like it used to, meaning it has to be much more careful. Also, I've only faced it once or twice ever since the Smogon server came to PO. It's not centralizing because almost no one uses it. It's not game-breaking because smart playing can limit it to 0 or 1 kills per match.
~~~~~~~~~
Or we could talk about how under-whelming Chomp and Mence are this Gen. Compared to last Gen. They're still not bad; they're just not amazing, either.
I know that I said to move on, but I just wanted to say that users directly mentioning an Inconsistent ban seem to have equalled those for Darkrai. Scary...
Anyways, I had a very hard time winning today. However, I did manage a 1:1 ratio with my "Fantastic Four" team (namely Darkrai, Shaymin-S, Manaphy and Deoxys-A, as they were by far the most mentioned to be banned here), and I won all battles but one with it yesterday. The fact that I even got to 1:1 despite having no good switch-ins to Electric or enemy "Fantastic Four" mons is telling, I reckon.
Anyways, I had a very hard time winning today. However, I did manage a 1:1 ratio with my "Fantastic Four" team (namely Darkrai, Shaymin-S, Manaphy and Deoxys-A, as they were by far the most mentioned to be banned here), and I won all battles but one with it yesterday. The fact that I even got to 1:1 despite having no good switch-ins to Electric or enemy "Fantastic Four" mons is telling, I reckon.
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