Official NBA 2010-11 Season Thread

[Phizzlax]

If you've noticed during their 11 game win streak the only real team they beat were the Hawks and the Knicks last night who both dont exactly scream matchup nightmares for the Heat. I mean hey, playing teams like the Nets/T'Wolves/Kings is always nice to boost some moral as the Heat fans seems to be back

Regardless of the teams they've played, an 11 game win streak is a big deal in the NBA and can only be achieved by a team that is talented and gelling. This isn't the 60s, NBA teams all have incredibly talented players and any team can beat any other team on any given night. Case in point, the Lakers have had a huge number of troubles against sub-par teams.

The win streak is that much more impressive when you consider they won 10 of those 11 games by double digits (including all four of the games against quality teams).

Speaking of which, you inexplicably forgot the Jazz and the Hornets on your list of quality teams the Heat dismantled during this trip. Both teams that pose matchup problems to the Heat's perceived weaknesses.

The Knicks were largely painted to be a team that could give the Heat huge matchup problems, too. They have a talented young point guard and a superstar big man that every analyst was sure would absolutely steam roll the Heat.

But the Heat's big men shut Amar'e down more than anybody has in weeks.

Thats nice, but they arent exactly the Detroit Pistons of a few years back... They're a nice defensive team, but you cant go anywhere when your offense revolves around one player going iso on posessions, a foward running the point and hoping for many fast breaks.

This implies to me you haven't been watching the Heat much lately. Lebron is far removed from his point forward status and the team as a whole has improved leaps and bounds in terms of their offensive possessions. There's a lot of ball movement and none of it is forced, the players are clearly more comfortable and the role players are more involved. Ilgauskus and Lebron have developed a nice pick and pop, Arroyo is hitting wide open 3s and finding his place, even Joel Anthony and Dampier are getting open layups and dunks. This team is figuring out how to pick teams apart.

 

[Lakers]

The Hornets are what, 7-10 since they started 8-0? Real good team right now... The Knicks.... play 0 defense...That literally plays right into the favor of the Heat. By the way, you do realize in the 60's everyone had good players since there were only like, 12-16 teams in the entire league right?

Do you even realize this Heat team is built to spank bad teams yet get pushed around by more complete teams in the league? When you have 3 superstars you can afford to win games based around bad habits and not having a real offense.

Lets just look at the records of teams they've played during this win streak:
Wizards: 6-18
Cavaliers (twice): 7-19
Pistons: 8-19
Warriors: 9-16
Kings: 5-19
Bucks: 10-14

Also, youre right I dont bother to watch teams I care nothing for. But when I watched last night Lebron sure was bringing up the ball a great number of times while iso/let lebron take every bad shot in the book became their offense. The only reason it works is because when they play teams like the Knicks who arent built to slow the ball down so the Heat can just run their fast break/ "defensive rewards package plan" that Spoelstra has employed. Also please, they were throwing double teams at Amare all night it wasnt just lolJoelAnthony doing shut down D on Amare

This is literally the same team that the Cavs had last year except with different players. Its evident Lebron cannot be coached into an offense so every team hes on always is focused on building around a solid D while the offense just plays the get the ball in the cylinder any way possible offense. It doesnt work in the playoffs thats why teams like this always do good during the regular season yet break apart come playoff time.

 

[Loki]

Full deal: Phx sends Hedo/J Rich/Earl Clark to Orlando for Vince/Gortat/Pietrus, 2011 first round pick and cash considerations, sources say

also rashard lewis straight up for gilbert arenas

 

[Phizzlax]

The Hornets are what, 7-10 since they started 8-0? Real good team right now... The Knicks.... play 0 defense...That literally plays right into the favor of the Heat.

And if the Heat had beaten the Celtics it would've been because Rondo + O'neals are out, if they had beaten the Lakers it would be because Bynum isn't back to his old self or the refs were bad, if they beat a team with no discernible excuse like the Jazz, you'll just avoid bringing it up... oh wait, that already happened!

Lets just look at the records of teams they've played during this win streak:
Wizards: 6-18
Cavaliers (twice): 7-19
Pistons: 8-19
Warriors: 9-16
Kings: 5-19
Bucks: 10-14

"Let me just list the bad teams they beat during an impressive win streak and not any of the good teams, then pretend it matters somehow!" I also like the irony of you pointing at their records immediately after dismissing the Hornets as not a good team, despite their record.

Also, youre right I dont bother to watch teams I care nothing for.

Welp. I don't think this argument is going far if only one of us watches the team we're arguing about =/

But when I watched last night Lebron sure was bringing up the ball a great number of times while iso/let lebron take every bad shot in the book became their offense. The only reason it works is because when they play teams like the Knicks who arent built to slow the ball down so the Heat can just run their fast break/ "defensive rewards package plan" that Spoelstra has employed. Also please, they were throwing double teams at Amare all night it wasnt just lolJoelAnthony doing shut down D on Amare

Is a Kobe Bryant fanboy telling me it's a bad thing to let your superstar shoot when he has a hot hand? Lebron was hitting every shot he took last night, that's why he was taking them (especially with D-Wade sitting out at the end of the third quarter).

Also, in the opening quarters Joel Anthony and Ilgauskus each stopped Amar'e one on one multiple times. Later on in the game as Gallinari cooled off they put the double on Amar'e and the Knicks couldn't take advantage of it. The Heat centers did an adequate job defensively, something most people didn't think they would do. Additionally, you can't discount their help defense, which has been superb lately.

This is literally the same team that the Cavs had last year except with different players.

?? Okay? "It's like Cleveland except everyone but Lebron is completely different, including two incredibly talented offensive players that take the load off his shoulders!"

[/QUOTE]It doesnt work in the playoffs thats why teams like this always do good during the regular season yet break apart come playoff time.[/QUOTE]

That's why those Cavs teams were always first round exits!

(INB4 "EAST IS WEAK HURR")

 

[Shining_Latios]

Full deal: Phx sends Hedo/J Rich/Earl Clark to Orlando for Vince/Gortat/Pietrus, 2011 first round pick and cash considerations, sources say

also rashard lewis straight up for gilbert arenas

Yeah I also heard this. All I have to say is, Phoenix are giving up J-Rich, an outstanding shooter beyond the arc (although he hasn't done any good this season).

As for the Lewis and Arenas trade, it's almost a done deal.

Basically what Orlando wants to do right now is add some young talent to go with Howard. I still don't think they will have enough depth inside though with Lewis and Gortat are to be both traded. Yes, Bass is there, but they need a bigger, better PF.

 

[DerrickRose]

Have fun with Vince Carter, Phoenix.

Edit: Oh, and the Heat aren't winning a championship, guys. This streak means nothing. Dallas got an 11 winning streak last year and easily lost in the first round.

Look at the opponents they faced.

Shutting down Amare isn't the same as shutting down Garnett, Gasol, Bynum, or Dwight Howard.

All Amare does is run to the basket.

 

[Tsunami]

Didn't Amare drop 39 against the best defensive team in the east?

Heat has vastly improved if they can blow out a top offensive team by 20 points

 

[Kevin Garrett]

There is just no way the Heat will beat the Celtics unless they make coaching changes and/or make a trade. Everyone knew Miami would have a streak sooner or later and the fact that they still haven't proved they can beat the Celtics in a single game (let alone a series) makes that streak hollow. The Heat haven't even proved they could be capable of beating the Magic in a series either. The only answer they have for the Magic is, "Get Dwight Howard into foul trouble."

 

[jwoozie]

Shutting down Amare isn't the same as shutting down Garnett, Gasol, Bynum, or Dwight Howard.

All Amare does is run to the basket.

About this. Have you actually seen Amar'e's game? Nobody on that list you provided has the game that Amar'e has. Amar'e doesn't just "run to the basket" (which he's quite effective with btw) he has a great face up game. He has a very good elbow jumpshot. Garnett and maaaybe Gasol are the only guys on that list that can hit a jumper with any consistency, and still not to the level of Amar'e. And comparing Amar'e to Bynum and Howard is quite odd. Amar'e really doesn't have a back to the basket skillset, yet the other two are strictly back down type of guys. Howard and Bynum (to a much lesser extent) will just muscle you down, throw some footwork in here or there, and jam the ball down your throat.
Amar'e will face you up, hit about 5 16 footers in your face, then jab step and go by and dunk on your "help" defense.

 

[Shining_Latios]

I totally agree with Kevin Garrett. I, myself, being a Celtics fan think the Heat won't make it to the finals this year. If they beat the Nuggets, Celtics, and the Magic at least once in the regular season, then yeah, they have a chance.

 

[Kevin Garrett]

Where did you get the Nuggets from? They aren't going anywhere. The Heat have already beaten the Magic once, but it was a tie game until Dwight got into foul trouble. That wouldn't happen every game in a playoff series. They just won't win on a consistent basis against teams that execute their halfcourt sets properly and/or have size on the frontline.

 

[Shining_Latios]

Where did you get the Nuggets from? They aren't going anywhere. The Heat have already beaten the Magic once, but it was a tie game until Dwight got into foul trouble. That wouldn't happen every game in a playoff series. They just won't win on a consistent basis against teams that execute their halfcourt sets properly and/or have size on the frontline.

If the Nuggets get healthy and Carmelo steps up his game, they can dominate. The problem with Miami is their communication. Everyone wants the ball.

 

[Kevin Garrett]

The Nuggets reign of supremacy in the Northwest is over. There is no way they will come out on top of the Jazz or Thunder. Either one of those teams will win the division. It's quite obvious Carmelo isn't going to stay in Denver. It's only a matter of time before he is traded. When someone leaves that much money on the table it's a clear indication that they don't want to be with the team anymore. The Nuggets would be foolish not to trade him because they could at least get some pieces to rebuild with in exchange for Carmelo.

 

[jwoozie]

That's assuming Carmelo even finishes the year as a Nugget. Even if he does, Denver isn't going anywhere. They don't have the defense to play in a meaningful series. Sure they'll outscore the best teams in any given game, but they won't beat an elite team in a series. I don't see Carmelo ever getting a ring. He's a great player, one of the best scorers in the league, could end up being one of the greatest scorers of all time. But he isn't a winner.

 

[makiri]

Yeah I also heard this. All I have to say is, Phoenix are giving up J-Rich, an outstanding shooter beyond the arc (although he hasn't done any good this season).

Where are you getting this idea?

He is shooting 41% from beyond the 3 point line (and he is even taking more than his career average), 47% overall, 19 points per game. He is playing great offense this year, his defense has been pretty shaky, but his offensive numbers are just fine.

As a Suns fan I'm not entirely sure what to think of the trade. Jrich was a fantastic player with us, but he was going to be leaving this year so we got something for him. Hedo's skill set is too redundant on our team so he never really got a chance to do anything, wish him the best where he seemed to have his best success. Earl Clark was never really given a chance, but that blame could be placed squarely on him. Clark was supposed to be a more athletic and taller Shawn Marion, but what he has been is a soft jump shooter. He never used his size and quickness on either end of the floor and it was pretty evident he wasn't going to get much playing time with the logjam we have at the SF spot.

The stuff coming in isn't that bad. Gortat was wanted by us when he was a free agent, he was pretty good then, but I haven't paid much attention to him since, but he will help solidify the center position either as the starter or backing up Fropez (I expect them to get nearly the same amount of playing time). Pietrus is a solid wing defender and can score, but I hope Nash can fix his ball hogging tendencies, I've always liked him and until JChill heals up he should fit right in with our system. Vince is no where near the level he once was, but he only has 4 million guaranteed next year so we can either trade him to a team that needs salary relief or just outright cut him.

This is a sign that the Suns will not be competing this year, unless Nash can get Vince up to a level near JRich's performance I don't see the Suns making much noise in the West. This was a trade to fix some problems on the team, namely rebounding and defense, but without a legit PF those problems will still linger. 2 picks in the next draft is nice, probably a low lottery (our own pick) and 25-30 from the Magic, so hopefully we can get some talent and have a solid core for the future.

 

[gsninja]

Full deal: Phx sends Hedo/J Rich/Earl Clark to Orlando for Vince/Gortat/Pietrus, 2011 first round pick and cash considerations, sources say

also rashard lewis straight up for gilbert arenas

Is it still in talks, or is the deal essentially finalized?

I think the trade with Phoenix is good. Granted, they're losing a center in Gortat, but I think getting Turkoglu back and a great three-point shooter in Richardson is awesome. I love Carter, but his impact in Orlando < Turk's.

Idk what to think about the trade with Washington. Both players are pretty meh.

 

[Shining_Latios]

Is it still in talks, or is the deal essentially finalized?

I think the trade with Phoenix is good. Granted, they're losing a center in Gortat, but I think getting Turkoglu back and a great three-point shooter in Richardson is awesome. I love Carter, but his impact in Orlando < Turk's.

Idk what to think about the trade with Washington. Both players are pretty meh.

It's still being talked out.

The Arenas, Lewis trade is basically finalized.

EDIT: It is finalized, both of them! Straight from NBA Facebook page:

The Orlando Magic shook up their roster today!

They received GILBERT ARENAS from the Official Washington Wizards Page for RASHARD LEWIS. http://on.nba.com/gJ9joS

and recieved JASON RICHARDSON, HEDO TURKOGLU & EARL CLARK from the Phoenix Suns for VINCE CARTER, MICKAEL PIETRUS & MARCIN GORTAT. http://on.nba.com/dI8jNT

WHO GOT THE BEST OF THE DEAL?

 

[jwoozie]

Arenas for Lewis is just..odd. It solidifies the fact that Washington is Wall's team, but we already knew that. And they already have a scoring power forward in Andray Blatche. I just don't see what Rashard Lewis does for this team aside from having shots taken from the 4 spot instead of the 2.

The Magic get Turkoglu back, he was very solid for them so that's a plus. JRich is an improvement over VC, although they are the same mold of player. I think I would rather have Gortat than Clark though. Giving up Pietrus seems pretty big, to me at least. He's an active defender with an ever improving outside stroke. His defensive talents will probably go to waste in Phoenix. This whole transaction seems kind of odd to me. None of the teams involved seem to be any better off, at least at this point. Orlando was never a serious championship contender in my eyes anyway so oh well.

 

[DerrickRose]

About this. Have you actually seen Amar'e's game? Nobody on that list you provided has the game that Amar'e has. Amar'e doesn't just "run to the basket" (which he's quite effective with btw) he has a great face up game. He has a very good elbow jumpshot. Garnett and maaaybe Gasol are the only guys on that list that can hit a jumper with any consistency, and still not to the level of Amar'e. And comparing Amar'e to Bynum and Howard is quite odd. Amar'e really doesn't have a back to the basket skillset, yet the other two are strictly back down type of guys. Howard and Bynum (to a much lesser extent) will just muscle you down, throw some footwork in here or there, and jam the ball down your throat.
Amar'e will face you up, hit about 5 16 footers in your face, then jab step and go by and dunk on your "help" defense.

I didn't say Amar'e was a bad player or that he was ineffective. He just isn't the same as stopping Gasol, Bynum, or other players who actually get more points out of more than just pick and roll. MOST of his points come off of pick and roll. You can't deny that, at least. All Miami had to do was make the Knicks play in a half-court offense.

With all that said, so what if he scored 39 points against the Celtics? They had no center and were playing on a back to back. Garnett also struggles against players like Amar'e who have great pick and roll offense.

Simply because the Heat held Amare Stoudemire to 24 points (WOW!), means they're on the Celtics level in the playoffs? Nah. I gotta see it to believe it. They're still a jump shooting team.

As for the trades..

The Suns probably just wanted to get ready to rebuild. They realize Hedo was a dumb move (and who better to predict that than me), so they shed some salary for an expiring Carter (he isn't going to do shit for that team, I'll tell you that) and a promising center who really knows how to run the floor and play pick and roll better than Lopez. Pietrus is back home in Golden Stat-- I mean, the Suns.

The Magic... well, they're better off than before at least. Carter is such liability on defense that I just want to tear my hair out every time I see him get killed.

Are they a contender? Who knows. They got some solutions (one that worked, and one that may work better), but their backcourt defense is still terrible. Let's see how much Dwight is going to make up for this.

 

[jwoozie]

I understand fully that his game is different than the players you mentioned. I was just making the point that a comparison shouldn't be drawn when talking about defending them because they have incredibly different styles of offense.
And had the O'Neals been healthy I still think he would've scored 39. Neither Shaq nor Jermaine can guard Amar'e one on one. Plus, he's been playing some of the best offensive basketball of his career in the last few weeks.
Guarding Amar'e is such a different monster than guarding a typical big man in this league. Name another big man that can consistently pop 17 footers that also has a first step as quick as most 2 guards.

 

[DerrickRose]

Guarding Amar'e is such a different monster than guarding a typical big man in this league. Name another big man that can consistently pop 17 footers that also has a first step as quick as most 2 guards.

Pau Gasol, Kevin Garnett, Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, and many more.

Because they at least got the finals with their skill-sets as opposed to Amar'e who apparently "plays so different".

He's good, but stopping him (or not stopping him) isn't really indicative of anything. He may not play like the big men around him, but what's it matter if he can't win anything with it?

 

[jwoozie]

Gasol, from what I've seen, does a lot of his damage from offensive rebounding and traditional post up. Garnett in his prime would be comparable to Amar'e, but not now. Dwight Howard has never in his life made a jumpshot. Fact. Tim Duncan has never had a lightning quick first step.

But I'm going to hop off the Amar'e bandwaggon because you're right, he doesn't win anything and he probably never will. But you've got to admit it is entertaining watching that guy play some offense.

 

[DerrickRose]

Dwight Howard has never in his life made a jumpshot.

See how he plays today.

Wait, how did this whole thing start any way? Oh yeah, someone said holding Amare was somehow indicative of overall big men defense.

 

[Stallion]

I know this is slightly off topic but seeing as I own JRich in one league and Rashard Lewis in another, I wonder what the fantasy impact is going to be for both of them? I'm especially worried about Richardson, because despite having an actual post presence that commands double teams, he has no Nash to get him the ball.

 

[Shining_Latios]

Another thing about the trade is Lewis is probably happy to be away from Vince Carter because he thought he didn't get enough shots because of Vince. I might have to agree.