What aren't we writing about? (Pokemon unfit for OU Analyses)

[TorchicBlaziken]

Are we ever going to be doing any Dubs/Trips analyses? (It's just as viable a metagame as UU would ever be.) If we are, then the list should be different for them, since several Pokémon on this list such as Regigigas (Just call it "not even BL material" to its face after Prankster Cottonee uses Worry Seed) are actually worth using here.

Porygon-Z is a new comer! It's too slow to be effective in the current metagame, to outclassed by basically everything, and with Roobushin all over the place, it's even less likely to get a full sweep. It's also hard for it to get a turn to set up, which doesn't help.

I love Porygon-Z, but I agree with this statement. Porygon-Z is a fantastic UU Pokémon, that's for sure, but Porygon-Z is too much in the middle. (You have to respect it, though, by its existence letting the Eviolite work on Porygon2.)

 

[SigmaEpsilon]

I'd like to try and propose Zebstrika to be off the list.

Remember what Noobvire's main problem was in 4th gen that could very easily have made it UU, but didn't? That's right, it was a bit too slow without Motor Drive and didn't quite hit hard enough even with Expert Belt.

Zebstrika remedies this issue by being well over the base 100 speed mark (116 speed; suck it, Starmie, Gengar, Azelf and Thundurus) while still maintaining a respectable attack stat in 100. It also has very good coverage in STAB Wild Charge, 120BP Thrash/Double-Edge, Pursuit and either Flame Charge or Double Kick for more coverage. Hell, if you really wanted to you could slap on Overheat to nail Ferrothorn for a nice chunk of damage.

Other options for it include Volt Change to scout to a degree, which is actually very nice when running away from Starmie and Thundurus.

I've been running this recently and it's been pretty effective.

Zebstrika @ Choice Band / Life Orb
Trait: Motor Drive
EVs: 4Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Wild bolt
- Pursuit
- Flame Charge
- Volt Change/Double Kick

Wild Bolt hurts pretty much everything it runs into, especially Starmie, who is baaarely outsped without a Scarf. Pursuit also drills into Starmie, Gengar and Chandelure (the former two of which you can capitalize on lured Thunderbolts a la GyaraStrika). Flame Charge simultaneously boosts your already great speed and hits Ferrothorn, Forretress (who?) and Scizor for 4x SE damage. Volt Change allows you to scout for other troubles just like good ol' U-Turn, letting you bring in an appropriate check.

Choice Band is the first option here, ensuring Zebstrika does as much damage as it can, however having constant versatility is the key point of considering Life Orb.


Another possible set can be this, too:
Zebstrika @ Life Orb / Choice Scarf
Trait: Lightningrod
EVs: 52 Atk / 200 SpAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Wild bolt/ Thunderbolt/ Charge Beam
- Overheat/Flame Charge
- Hidden Power Ice/Grass
- Volt Change/Pursuit


Don't like gaining speed as you go? How about power? Lightningrod's awesome buff means immunity to Electric attacks once again, only this time you can improve Zebstrika's Special Attack instead. The first three options (Wild Bolt/T-Bolt/Charge Beam) depends on your preference: Wild Bolt runs off of Zebstrika's better Attack Stat, Thunderbolt takes advantage of any Lightningrod boosts, and Charge Beam lets you boost more as you go. Overheat should be used if Wild Bolt is your first choice, as it allows Zebstrika to blast away Ferrothorn/Scizor/Forrewhat? once again, while including Lightningrod boosts. Flame Charge on the other hand is a nice move if you want to focus more on consistent Special attacking strength, and hey, it lets you outrun Sceptile and nail it at the same time. HP Ice ensures that Mence, Chomp, Landorus and friends aren't safe, while HP Grass stops Swampert, Gastrodon, and others from ruining your fun. Volt Change is for when it's time to get outta there, while Pursuit stops your opponent's frail little Gengar and Starmie from doing the same.


Choice Scarf is another item option for this set, as it allows you to outrun so many other Choice Scarfers and already boosted Pokes. However, the constant power boost of Life Orb is more recommended.


Where it's best used:
Because Zebstrika is a fast, hard-hitting Electric Type, it provides a useful niche on Sun Teams. Hitting opposing water types hard with STAB electric moves (Drizzletoed is bye-bye) and smashing things aside with Sun-boosted Overheat, Zebstrika is much more dangerous than one may think at first glance. Not to mention that Scarf Zebstrika outspeeds swift swimming Kingdra by 4 points... oh, wait, swift swim and drizzle is banned. A useless fact for if that combo ever gets unbanned, then.





Long story short: I may not be the worlds best battler or writer, but I do think Zebstrika is much better than it's been shown to be so far.

 

[Rakan]

Are you really using Double Kick as one of its coverage moves? >.> 30 Base Power hitting twice of a 100 Base Attack Stat unSTABed is not gonna be doing any damage without any attack boosts, even supereffectively. You are better off using Thundurus... Zebstrika has nothing going for it bar its 116 Base Speed which it can't even abuse with its mediocre attack stat and no way to boost it. Its Special Attack is also horribly lacking, and is weak even with a Lightningrod boost. In addition, Zebstrika's defenses are ridiculously low and it won't even survive strong neutral hits. Keep it where it belongs, in the future BW UU.

 

[Zebstrika]

Yes...unlike Electivire, and I hate to say this, but Zebstrika is extremely weak with not only lower attacking stats, but also much less coverage. Outside of Hidden Power, it gets no Ground moves, no decent Fighting moves (actually using Double Kick is showing some desperation there) and no Ice moves. (But it is awesome in-game. I defeated Skyla's 3 pokemon in 3 turns with it. It is fully evolved at just level 27, and it can Volt Switch out of threats.)

Also Sap Sipper>Lightningrod (in DW, which I know there aren't analyses for), because with an attack boost you can deal decent damage and you can now switch into all Grass moves and many Electric moves instead of all Electric moves and few Grass moves.

 

[GtM]

Zebstrika has exactly the opposite problems to Electivire. Whilst Electivire has great attacking stats and coverage, its main problems are the lack of speed and the low base power of coverage moves (ice punch and what not)... Zebstrika has buckletloads of speed and some high powered moves (Overheat, Double Edge), its coverage is very lacking and makes it resort to stuff like Pursuit and Double Kick. It has has much lower attacking stats than Electivire (100/80 vs 123/95) making higher base power moves less relevant.

So yeah, ultimately neither is worth using ^_^ Although Zebstrika certainly has a niche as an offensive Sap Sipper, you can switch into Breloom and screw his spore over with a surprise Overheat.

 

[SigmaEpsilon]

Oh well. Thought I may as well try my hand at it :P

 

[Porii Sames]

No joke, Seaking.

Lightningrod
@: Life Orb
80 Atk/176 SpA/252 Spe
Naive
~Megahorn
~Waterfall
~Agility
~Hydro Pump

In the rain, with a Lightningrod boost, this thing can tear stuff up. Megahorn OHKOs even bulkier stuff like Latios, Waterfall for that attack, Agility for Setup/Sweep, and Hydro Pump to sometimes 2HKO Ferrothorn after a boost.

I am not kidding. I have swept 4 teams with Seaking.

Oh and one more thing. This set is especially useful for rain dance teams, because when your opponent brings in a thunderbolt/thunder user to kill one of your water Pokemon, you can switch to seaking, get a lightning rod boost, agility, and sweep. (i've done it before, and it works). Plus, seaking resist bullet puch, and can survive a mach punch from just about anything.

 

[MackTheKnife]

Okay, I've got a question.
Why is Parasect is OU?

 

[zdrup15]

Parasect is nuts on rain, as a Spore / Leech Seed / Substitute / X-Scissor set with maxed defenses puts the hurt on a lot of teams.

This. It isn't OU but it is viable there.

 

[MackTheKnife]

This. It isn't OU but it is viable there.

Yeah, Parasect is one of the only grass types that fit well in Rain teams. Your probably right.

 

[WhiteMagic]

I want to take a STAB (haha) at Serperior. I honestly don't see why he is being thrown in with the UU. He's the most popular starter this gen and is a great supporter and his stats aren't too bad either. And the ability Contrary? OMG! It kicks butt. Too bad it's not out yet. Anyway, let me give you an example, this one being from Serebii:

Serperior @ Light Clay
Ability: Contrary
Nature: Timid
EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spd

- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt / Leech Seed / Glare
- Leaf Storm / Grass Knot / Energy Ball / Giga Drain
This set works wonders. It's a great support set, sporting Reflect and Light Screen, with the Light Clay, for some hearty defenses, Leech Seed for recovery, Taunt to shut down other supporters, Glare for annoying paralysis, and your choice of Special Grass-type attack, preferably Leaf Storm, with Contrary making it stronger every turn.

Now here's one of my sets that uses Serperior, as odd as it may seem, as a Lead.

Serperior @
Ability: Overgrow / Contrary
Nature:
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 220 Spd

- Toxic
- Light Screen / Reflect
- Dragon Tail
- Pursuit / Protect

This is my idea of a lead Serperior. You have Light Screen and Reflect as a setup, Toxic to poison, and Dragon Tail to send them away afterward. You can rinse and repeat this process for as long as you can for each opposing Pokemon. Protect and Pursuit are there to make sure that Serperior can get its job done. You can either keep Pursuit for those who like to run, or Protect to defend yourself against more pesky starters.

Have fun!

 

[GtM]

I want to take a STAB (haha) at Serperior.

Serperior @ Light Clay
Ability: Contrary
Nature: Timid
EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spd

- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt / Leech Seed / Glare
- Leaf Storm / Grass Knot / Energy Ball / Giga Drain

Since all current analyses are geared towards Wifi, we have to ignore Contrary as a persuading factor for now. And replacing Contrary with Overgrow, this set is more or less outclassed by Celebi, who boasts a better defensive ability, much better bulk, a nice resistance to Fighting and much better support options for the third slot in Heal Bell, Recover, U-Turn, you name it. I also reckon Whimsicott could pull off this set better, minus Reflect.

Sorry, but until Contrary is released I don't see Serperior being viable enough to compete with the likes of Celebi in this metagame. And as SDS said on the first page of this thread, "We don't know how we're handling shitty pokémon that become amazing though Dream World yet"

 

[The3DOstrich]

I know it has been mentioned before, but Victreebel can certainly pull his weight around thanks to Drought Ninetales, and he really isn't outclassed by Venesaur. Even without the sun, it has Sucker Punch to bypass the speed issue, and thanks to Growth it can go mixed, or just go physical with Swords Dance, as previously stated. Weather Ball also means it needn't waste a slot for Hidden Power Fire for Ferrothorn, allowing it to opt for HP Ice to deal with Dragon-types or HP Ground for Fire-types. Sure, he may be slower than Venesaur, but he sports better offensive stats. The shared typing means he also resists Mach Punch, Vacuum Wave, and Aqua Jet, so he's not as susceptable to priority as some other sweepers. He has a pretty decent support movepool as well, with access to Stun Spore, Sleep Powder, and Knock Off, and his bulk issue can be remedied with a Stockpile + Synthesis combo, which he can usually pull off thanks to Chlorophyll. Just saying, under the Sun, he really can cause some serious damage.

 

[Smokingpaper]

or just go physical with Swords Dance,

It has powerwhip, return and sucker punch as usable physical moves. With growth available and weather ball as it's most important niche I'm baffled you would even mention SD.

Victree with growth, weather ball, power whip, sleep powder has a shot at being useful. Still kinda outclassed by venusaur. You could run HP Ice for better coverage than venu but good luck setting up without sleep powder.

Victree has gotten huge boosts the last few games (thank the lord) but an OU analysis is pushing it imo.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

While I'm certain that Serperior is a surefire UU Pokemon, it does have a convenient niche in a universal paralysis move: Glare. It should also be noted for his ability to outspeed a good portion of the OU metagame with 113 Speed, and that Serperior is a pure Grass-type, differentiating him from Celebi. Serperior is sort of borderline in an environment of Whimsicott and Celebi, but he does have access to both Dual Screens and Taunt, and he doesn't necessarily have to use his SubSeed strategy everytime.

I'm pretty much a neutral party on Serperior, but it's Dual Screens strategy with Glare stops many threats in my experience.

 

[shipship]

Has Magneton been mentioned?

It's a weaker Magnezone, but crucially has 70 speed instead of 60, meaning Scarf Magneton outspeeds many things that Magnezone can't (base 115-125 pokemon, +1 Adamant Gyarados, +1 Tyranitar, +1 Scizor). The biggest difference stat-wise between Magneton and Magnezone is in the attack stat, but the only physical attack that Magneton/Zone ever used was Explosion, which is now irrelevant.

I think Magneton should get an analysis purely for the Scarf set which is better than Magnezone's. Magneton is more frail, but you're only using it to trap Steel types that you resist anyway.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Magneton remains on the list. Its lower bulk is too notable (40 points of HP, Def, AND SDef? No thank you), and the speed advantage is much less interesting when Azelf and Starmie basically don't exist (as well as ScarfTar), and Magnezone still outruns Thundurus, Gengar, and Lati@s. So yeah, no to Magneton.

Serperior also stays. Anything supportive it can do can also be done better by Celebi, which has a nifty Fighting and Psychic resistance, and also gets Thunder Wave (with Grass Knot to deter Ground-types). It also has better offensive and defensive stats as well as Recover and Natural Cure. Offensively it's terrible as well.

Moltres joins the list. It gets absolutely eaten by Tyranitar, Jellicent, Terrakion, Latias, Latios (to an extent), and still gets eaten alive by Stealth Rock, which isn't any less prevalent in this generation (it's just that now Ferrothorn can carry it, which arguably makes it easier to get up). It's also just straight up outclassed as a Sun sweeper by actually scary things like Blaziken, Infernape, Volcarona, and even Solar Power Charizard, among others.

 

[am zane ok.]

Magneton remains on the list. Its lower bulk is too notable (40 points of HP, Def, AND SDef? No thank you), and the speed advantage is much less interesting when Azelf and Starmie basically don't exist (as well as ScarfTar), and Magnezone still outruns Thundurus, Gengar, and Lati@s. So yeah, no to Magneton.

Err... It has 50/95/70 defenses, along with access to an Eviolite boost. I'm not quite sure what you're talking about, when you listed those stats.

I would have honestly never emphasized Magneton's use for its higher speed, but for its access to Eviolite and similar offenses to Magnezone.

-Zane

 

[Zebstrika]

It can't have both Eviolite and Scarf. If it could, Magnezone would be the one begging to get off the list.

Moltres joins the list. It gets absolutely eaten by Tyranitar, Jellicent, Terrakion, Latias, Latios (to an extent), and still gets eaten alive by Stealth Rock, which isn't any less prevalent in this generation (it's just that now Ferrothorn can carry it, which arguably makes it easier to get up). It's also just straight up outclassed as a Sun sweeper by actually scary things like Blaziken, Infernape, Volcarona, and even Solar Power Charizard, among others.

Maybe Stealth Rock is just as common, but it is much easier to spin away. Excadrill can come in on Rock and Electric attacks, without fearing Ground or Fighting typed attacks, and watch out if it decides to Swords Dance instead. Starmie can switch in on Water attacks, too.

It's bulkier than most of those sun sweepers you listed, with the exception of Volcarona, who has slightly better raw special bulk and becomes quite bulky after Quiver Dance. It is much frailer physically, leaving it open to Aqua Jet (outside of sun mostly), Extremespeed and other priority. Once Moltres pulls off Flame Charge or Agility, it can be very hard to stop, because it has 90/90/85 defenses, great for a sweeper, and it can still use Morning Sun or Roost to recover off the damage it took. Fire Blast or Flamethrower demolishes most pokemon, with SolarBeam cleaning up Water types and either Air Slash for second STAB, Hidden Power Ground/Ice for coverage or U-turn to leave the Fire and Dragon types to something else.

 

[am zane ok.]

It can't have both Eviolite and Scarf. If it could, Magnezone would be the one begging to get off the list.

Er. What I was saying is that Eviolite is the only major thing Magneton has over Magnezone, really. Of course I know they can't both be used!

-Zane

 

[GtM]

Err... It has 50/95/70 defenses, along with access to an Eviolite boost. I'm not quite sure what you're talking about, when you listed those stats.

He was talking about the actual stat points for a Lv100 Magnezone vs a Lv100 Magneton, not the BST difference.

 

[am zane ok.]

He was talking about the actual stat points for a Lv100 Magnezone vs a Lv100 Magneton, not the BST difference.

OHHHH. It's all clear to me now. I suck.

-Zane

 

[A Man In Black]

Once Moltres pulls off Flame Charge or Agility, it can be very hard to stop, because it has 90/90/85 defenses, great for a sweeper, and it can still use Morning Sun or Roost to recover off the damage it took. Fire Blast or Flamethrower demolishes most pokemon, with SolarBeam cleaning up Water types and either Air Slash for second STAB, Hidden Power Ground/Ice for coverage or U-turn to leave the Fire and Dragon types to something else.

Since when did Moltres have room for speed boosting moves? How many moveslots are you going to fit on there? Fire/flying is pretty crummy coverage. You really need the third attack to fill things out, and Roost or Sub makes four.

 

[GtM]

Does Lv1 Aron deserve an analysis? Sturdy, Endeavour and Shell Bell basically let you kill any opposing pokémon that tries to attack you with a single hit move whilst simultaneously healing yourself completely. It can also run annoying moves like Roar, Swagger etc to be annoying to anything that doesn't attack it. And it currently has higher usage than a lot of pokés on here that are getting analyses.

 

[Zebstrika]

Since when did Moltres have room for speed boosting moves? How many moveslots are you going to fit on there? Fire/flying is pretty crummy coverage. You really need the third attack to fill things out, and Roost or Sub makes four.

It has a lot of options. Blaziken doesn't have room to make perfect coverage, Swords Dance, Protect, Substitute, Baton Pass (DW), whatever. Infernape often only has room for Fire Blast, Close Combat, priority and one coverage move. Volcarona's fire/bug coverage is pretty poor, and Charizard has the same STABs.

Moltres with Agility/Morning Sun, Fire Blast, SolarBeam, and Air Slash has decent coverage, with only Heatran and Heat Rotom resisting it. If you want to be a fast sweeper, you don't need to recover off hits. Stuff will be dead. If you want to be a more bulky sweeper, that is when you use Morning Sun or Roost.