Hydreigon

[Virizion]

edit: wait why is this in the HYDREIGON thread

I lol'd because I asked myself that very same question upon reading his post.

plenty of stuff outspeeds it.

Serperior has 113 Base Speed, with the highest (normally seen) Base Speed being 115.. Nothing much is outspeeding it (besides random Scarf users) but this is a Hydreigon thread, so back to Hydreigon discussion.


Also, I might consider to switch to Specs, but if I do so, should I keep Modest or do I need to get a new Timid one? If I do get a new Timid one, should I get one with Dark Pulse? I'm unfortunately too lazy to look through 25 pages of a boring-OU-Pokemon thread (or this one in particular, at least), so I don't exactly know what the benefits of Dark Pulse are other than murdering Reuniclus (which is always nice). I still think Scarf should be a viable set considering that you get to outspeed some things (Base 100's without boosts most notably, but also Base 101-120's, slower Pokemon holding Choice Scarves [Shanderaa for example] etc.)

 

[Green Mage]

Dark Pulse is also good for Jellicent and Dusclops, It's also a better stab option than dragon pulse because you're already using draco meteor.

Modest is the better nature for specs, and i'm pretty sure the general consensus agrees. You aren't missing any notable speed tiers except for what is commonly scarfed.

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

Does Hydreigon work on bulky offensive teams? I really like the Stallbreaker set!

 

[IcyMan28]

It works quite well, actually, since it has a pretty nice repertoire of resistances (Grass, Water, Ground, Electric, Psychic, Dark, and Ghost) and immunity to most hazards.

The stallbreaker set is hell to play around, as it completely wrecks Chansey and Blissey (the only stall members that can actually claim to stop Hydreigon).

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

It works quite well, actually, since it has a pretty nice repertoire of resistances (Grass, Water, Ground, Electric, Psychic, Dark, and Ghost) and immunity to most hazards.

The stallbreaker set is hell to play around, as it completely wrecks Chansey and Blissey (the only stall members that can actually claim to stop Hydreigon).

Does he work well with Fire/Water/Grass cores? This + Dragon Tail Milotic + Ferrothorn + Chandelure looks like it could be a very potent balanced core!

What are ideal teammates?

 

[IcyMan28]

I guess it could work - you have all of its weaknesses covered and between hazards and Hydreigon's attacks, stall will be hard pressed to come out on top.

 

[Green Mage]

It's a superstar on my bulky offense.

A great teammate is Vaporeon, who can easily wish health onto Hydreigon thanks to resisting grass and electric (vappy resists ice in return).

Are the 252 speed evs on the stallbreaker set really necessary? Stall teams aren't exactly known for their speed, and Hydreigon totally appreciates more bulk.

 

[Virizion]

Are the 252 speed evs on the stallbreaker set really necessary? Stall teams aren't exactly known for their speed, and Hydreigon totally appreciates more bulk.

I'd say you'll want at least 285 Spe, because you won't always be fighting Stall teams, and outspeeding non-Scarf Shanderaa and other similar Pokes is nice IMO

 

[Nonary Game]

I'd say you'll want at least 285 Spe, because you won't always be fighting Stall teams, and outspeeding non-Scarf Shanderaa and other similar Pokes is nice IMO

I'd still say to max it, or at least aim for 290, letting you outspeed neutral-natured Gliscors. And 295 lets you tie with max speed Heracross, Suicune and friends that sit at his speed tier.

After some usage, I will say that stallbreaker set is excellent, even though it absolutely needs Wish support or it will fail to do much outside of killing one or two things.

 

[IcyMan28]

Stallbreaker probably wants 280 speed, same as the Specs set. Heracross is nowhere to be seen, most Gliscor with that much speed will just opt for Jolly (as they are SD or BP anyway rather than defensive), and Suicune is much rarer.

Chandelure is also quite rare, so the increased bulk / power is often preferable in my experience. Again, that's just me - Hydreigon is definitely one of those pokemon that can be adapted to your needs.

 

[TLK]

Yeah, I invest more in bulk as well.

I kinda wish this guy got Roost (to get rid of LO recoil) but oh well, he's still awesome and usually always pulls his weight on teams.

 

[Twannes]

I think i'll stay with my LO modest Hydreigon. Maybe with taunt instead of Surf, but that is an alternative.

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

What are the pros to using this guy over Latios? I guess he can U-Turn, Taunt, and Fire Blast, but besides attack, just about every stat is inferior. And Fighting Type weakness hurts alot!

 

[vladthebanana]

The only thing i don't like about Hydreigon is that he was released in the 5th gen along with with a lot of fighting types who are usually bulky enough to absorb an attack and completely face pwn him. But i still give him my luvdiscs :P.

 

[Katakiri]

What are the pros to using this guy over Latios? I guess he can U-Turn, Taunt, and Fire Blast, but besides attack, just about every stat is inferior. And Fighting Type weakness hurts alot!

Latios' lack of Fire Blast, Focus Blast, & Taunt are huge, but the big reason you'd want Hydreigon over Latios is the difference in typing. Some teams just can't afford to have another Pokemon weak to Dark or Ghost.

For example when I was making my current 'Anti-metagame' team, I had Hydreigon, Gliscor, Skarmory, Reuniclus, Latios, & Rotom-W. I had 3 Pokemon weak to Ice so someone had to go. While Hydreigon is slower and less powerful than Latios, Latios shared more weakness than any other member of the team which in the end made him my weakest link, so I got rid of him.

With the popularity of Reuniclus, Starmie, & Gengar those shared weaknesses make Latios a bad partner for them. So really Hydreigon shouldn't be the Pokemon in question since Latios is really fighting for a team slot against those other Psychic/Ghost Pokemon. Hydreigon just happens to pair a lot better with Latios' rivals which is the main reason it's used.

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

Can he even take care of Reuniclus?
The stallbreaker set boasts Draco Meteor/Dark Pulse/Taunt/U-Turn which don't seem like they'd do the trick!

 

[Nonary Game]

Can he even take care of Reuniclus?
The stallbreaker set boasts Draco Meteor/Dark Pulse/Taunt/U-Turn which don't seem like they'd do the trick!

It'd have to tread lightly if it's coming in, as Focus Blast hurts like a bitch. But Draco Meteor against the physically bulky variants?

383 Atk vs 206 Def & 424 HP (140 Base Power): 364 - 429 (85.85% - 101.18%)

Basically, if it's taken prior damage, a clean OHKO. Still, if it survives, it's going to either die next turn, or U-turn sets you up to get something else in to murder it. Now if it CMed?

383 Atk vs 309 Def & 424 HP (140 Base Power): 243 - 286 (57.31% - 67.45%)

Yeah, it'll fail somewhat if it grabbed a CM. For posterity's sake, let's get U-turn damage calculated:

221 Atk vs 273 Def & 424 HP (70 Base Power): 106 - 126 (25.00% - 29.72%)

Point being, that set is going to have issues getting past Reuniclus. Chaining a U-turn into Scizor is a surefire way to force it out as it'll certainly die otherwise. As for Reuniclus, Dark Pulse is almost a guaranteed OHKO at +0: 383 Atk vs 206 Def & 424 HP (80 Base Power): 414 - 488 (97.64% - 115.09%)

The only thing i don't like about Hydreigon is that he was released in the 5th gen along with with a lot of fighting types who are usually bulky enough to absorb an attack and completely face pwn him. But i still give him my luvdiscs :P.

Draco Meteor OHKOes Conkeldurr, whereas he fails to do the same with +1 Mach Punch in good health.

 

[Green Mage]

What are the pros to using this guy over Latios? I guess he can U-Turn, Taunt, and Fire Blast, but besides attack, just about every stat is inferior. And Fighting Type weakness hurts alot!

I'd rather have a fighting type weakness than a pursuit weakness. Hydreigon has strong options against fighters (kill with draco meteor, switch to a ghost or gliscor, etc), whereas latios usually has zero options against pursuiters except to die. Plus, Hydreigon has a decent fire attack to back up its dragon stab as opposed to the impossible-to-have-without-cheating HP Fire which is massively inferior to begin with and takes a point off a key stat or two. And it can taunt walls (by the way, i've switched from specs to life orb and replaced surf with taunt. Same EVs and nature worked fine. It's a better set).

That isn't to say that latios isn't an amazing pokemon or is better or worse than Hydreigon; it is obviously one of the best pokemon in OU. But there are many teams where Hydreigon is going to be a better fit, especially ones that already have psychic types like Reuniclus.

Speaking of Reuniclus, Dark Pulse does enough damage even with reuniclus at +1 to allow the next pokemon to easily kill it, or to just kill it itself if focus blast misses...and every now and then I survive a +1 focus blast (again, if it even hits), but i don't run 252spe/252spa. I take a bit from speed and give to HP.

 

[Nerffie]

What are the pros to using this guy over Latios? I guess he can U-Turn, Taunt, and Fire Blast, but besides attack, just about every stat is inferior. And Fighting Type weakness hurts alot!

Hydreigon has a much easier time dealing with Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, and Steel types in general. The resistances are also nifty, and it can't be punished with a Pursuit.

 

[Forsety]

What are the pros to using this guy over Latios? I guess he can U-Turn, Taunt, and Fire Blast, but besides attack, just about every stat is inferior. And Fighting Type weakness hurts alot!

He doesn't get revenged as easily, he can run while attacking, easier to deal with weaknesses and unique resistances. A dark/ghost resist and psychic immunity can account for alot this generation.

However whats to say you couldn't just run Latios and Hydreigon? They pretty much account for some of each others weaknesses and double dragon is still one of the most broken offensive setups this gen.

 

[Lucindril]

Hydreigon is also one of the best Chandelure revengers in the game (Houndoom probably being the best).

 

[UberOwn]

Is a Draco Meteor coming from a Modest 252evs Sazandora stronger than an Outrage coming from a Adamant 252evs Salamence ?

 

[BurningMan]

Is a Draco Meteor coming from a Modest 252evs Sazandora stronger than an Outrage coming from a Adamant 252evs Salamence ?

405 Atk * 120 = 46800

383 SpA * 140 = 53620

So yeah Sazandoras Draco Meteor is technically stronger compared to Salamence Outrage.

I don't know why you want to compare them though you can't spam Outrage like Draco Meteor because that will likely get you killed since you trap yourself for 2-3 turn everytime you use it.

 

[Cherub Agent]

yes

 

[vladthebanana]

dark typing=not so great with all the fighting types. though it does give some res. and can, with the right strategy kinda check reneculis.