Stealth Rock Discussion

[The Messiah]

i think Stealth rock encourages stall, pokemon that use outside the lead slot are always defensive pokemon, and some like metagross are tanky and use it in the lead slot and if a pokemon that isnt defensive uses it they would have superior effect with a boosting attack or substitute.

it encourages stallers, making teams predictable and often boring.

i think banning it completely is unreasonable. banning it on certain pokemon however i think makes it better. rather than banning stalling combination of pokemon

as a move it is just a version superior to spikes and toxic spikes.


its a joke nothing has been changed about the rulings of stealth rock.

the fact that you have to use rapid spinners is stupid, a lot more pokemon can learn SR and only a few can learn RS, and the pokemon that learn rapid spin are normally rubbish and easily counterable, which in turns cuts out pokemon with a 4x weakness to SR, even if they are rubbish pokemon most of the time, its nice to be able to have a charizard.

 

[SupaChinChin]

i think Stealth rock encourages stall, pokemon that use outside the lead slot are always defensive pokemon, and some like metagross are tanky and use it in the lead slot and if a pokemon that isnt defensive uses it they would have superior effect with a boosting attack or substitute.

it encourages stallers, making teams predictable and often boring.

i think banning it completely is unreasonable. banning it on certain pokemon however i think makes it better. rather than banning stalling combination of pokemon

as a move it is just a version superior to spikes and toxic spikes.


its a joke nothing has been changed about the rulings of stealth rock.

the fact that you have to use rapid spinners is stupid, a lot more pokemon can learn SR and only a few can learn RS, and the pokemon that learn rapid spin are normally rubbish and easily counterable, which in turns cuts out pokemon with a 4x weakness to SR, even if they are rubbish pokemon most of the time, its nice to be able to have a charizard.

This is completely wrong. Stealth Rock in no way encourages stall. The reason is that offensive teams LOVE Stealth Rock, even more than stall teams. The SR really wears down counters to powerful offensive pokemon, and it can mean the difference between a 2HKO and a OHKO. Pokemon like Infernape can use Stealth Rock MUCH better than any boosting move known to man.

Also, nobody runs Rapid Spin anymore. Its not necessary. And if you really want to use a 4x weak to SR poke, there are plenty of great rapid spinners, and none are easily counterable. Examples: Excadrill, Starmie, Donphan, Blastoise, etc.

One last thing. Banning SR on certain pokemon is probably the worst idea I've heard on these forums. And that is a difficult accomplishment.

 

[changos]

lol

 

[Nkululeko]

The lack of Rapid Spinners is really user-fault. There are good rapid spinners(one is always on the suspect voting) and I rather sack a move slot for Rapid Spin than have half a Volcarona/Moltres.

 

[No. 1 Machop Fan]

The legendary Magic Bounce makes Stealth Rock much more manageable because it bounces Entry Hazards back at the opponent! SO FUN TO ABUSE!

 

[Bombkirby]

The lack of Rapid Spinners is really user-fault. There are good rapid spinners(one is always on the suspect voting) and I rather sack a move slot for Rapid Spin than have half a Volcarona/Moltres.

Yeah but rapid spin is an unattractive, weak waste of a moveslot. No one wants to be forced to use it. Keyword forced. Many pokemon NEED spin support even if they aren't that powerful. Why punish average Pokemon? If it was like a powerful Pokemon then such a weakness is justified (imagine an OU pokemon with Uber stats but it was 4x weak to SR, thats justified) it'd be fair, but it just cripples so many Pokemon that have so much potential. SR also, as I alluded to before, forces people to pack spinners which are boring and stupid.

The legendary Magic Bounce makes Stealth Rock much more manageable because it bounces Entry Hazards back at the opponent! SO FUN TO ABUSE!

I barely see Espeon. And besides, even if Espeon was the magic answer to SR, it'd centralize the Meta-game way too much.

 

[Woodchuck]

Lol. "fair"
Smogon shouldn't feel compassion for any pokemon over another. Spikes favored Levitators in RSE, but was it banned? Stealth Rock is just plain part of the game, and unless it can be shown it's broken (which it's clearly not, with multiple ways to counter it and/or deal with it) there really isn't a good reason to ban it other than "baww I want to use X SR weak pokemon"

 

[alexwolf]

Lol. "fair"
Smogon shouldn't feel compassion for any pokemon over another. Spikes favored Levitators in RSE, but was it banned? Stealth Rock is just plain part of the game, and unless it can be shown it's broken (which it's clearly not, with multiple ways to counter it and/or deal with it) there really isn't a good reason to ban it other than "baww I want to use X SR weak pokemon"

you are right about this but in the characteristics of a desirable metagame it is written that variety is wanted!!!
so i am asking isn't stealth rock limiting a whole bunch of pokes???i can think of more than 40 pokes that would see a lot of use(i am talking about every tier)if this move was gone...yet we keep such a variety limiting move to the metagame just 'cause we are used to it and we have learned how to deal with it...

as stated before the same could be said for drizzle...after some time,even without any bans,people would learn how to deal with it but that wouldnt mean that it wasn't a broken playstyle...i know that drizzle is much more limiting than sr but still the comparison stands!

also sr is used in more than 50% of the teams i see...this is twice as much(more actually) than the usage of the most overused poke in ou...!!!
i know that the latter is a poke while the other is a move but at the same time sr affects the WHOLE OPPOSING TEAM!!!it isn't just a single move...it appears in so much teams just because of how good it is!
and it is a special case(just like drizzle)'cause it affects the whole team not just the defending poke...!
so when one move affects your whole team so much that it is used in at least 1 every 2 teams,then to me it seems like we have the best move right here...
anyway i am just expressing my thoughts 'cause i really hate how sr makes certain types bad by default...actually i am not quite sure if i want it banned or not but i certainly think that it is an overpowering move..!

 

[moonbound]

Stealth rocks r dum and should be bannd becuz charizard is the best pokemon and stupid stealth rocks were just made to make it fair for the other useless pokemon. If smogon was smart, they wud ban stealth cox becuz they are uncompetetive and overcentralizing.

Lol jk, it's part of the game so deal with it

 

[No. 1 Machop Fan]

Volcarona is 4x SR-weak and still gets a lot of use. If SR was so centralised then it likely wouldn't be used as much.

 

[Slightly]

Lol jk, it's part of the game so deal with it

Although I agree with most of what you're saying, Blaziken, some legendaries, SwSw+Drizzle are part of the game. Didn't stop people from banning them. People don't 'just deal' with other things.

 

[NDenizen]

Stealth Rock is almost balanced this metagame. It could use perhaps a bit more "balancing" in the form of not being an automatic free Super Fang on some pokemon, but otherwise it will do for now.

I think the main problem is that it was an utter pain in Gen 4, and the number of carbon-copy leads beginning with the letter 'A' that screamed overcentralisation. It should have been banned then, because it was countered by a single piece of shit badly distributed move, (and maybe taunt) and that was it. Nowadays, there's more ways to support a rapid spinner, priority Taunt, more Magic Guard, and Magic Bounce/Coat can actually punish the hazard-layer nicely.

It's still hideously imbalanced in a way Spikes or T-Spikes are not, but it's sufferable for now.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Stealth Rock is almost balanced this metagame. It could use perhaps a bit more "balancing" in the form of not being an automatic free Super Fang on some pokemon, but otherwise it will do for now.

I think the main problem is that it was an utter pain in Gen 4, and the number of carbon-copy leads beginning with the letter 'A' that screamed overcentralisation. It should have been banned then, because it was countered by a single piece of shit badly distributed move, (and maybe taunt) and that was it. Nowadays, there's more ways to support a rapid spinner, priority Taunt, more Magic Guard, and Magic Bounce/Coat can actually punish the hazard-layer nicely.

It's still hideously imbalanced in a way Spikes or T-Spikes are not, but it's sufferable for now.

It's just awesome how Azelf and Aerodactyl went from somewhat decent sweepers to somewhat insane leads. SR was so good that it was actually WORTH sacking one mon just to get it up. Have a 4x SR weak mon? You're essentially forced to pack Starmie or any other spinner. Rotom-A just made matters worse, seeing as it could spinblock AND beat Starmie 1-on-1.

 

[The 1 and Only Lady Gaga]

If there was Stealth Ice, Stealth Fire, Stealth Grass and so on there wouldn't be an overcentralization as people will have more options to deal with otherwise problematic Pokemon (Dragons like Salamence and Dragonite, Scizor, Swampert respectively in this case) and it is a pity we only have Stealth Rock which is unfortunate for those weak to Rock types. I despise Stealth Rock because of it's type discrimination, as it automatically makes anything weak to it at a disadvantage. That said, it doesn't mean Pokemon weak to Rock are unusable, if you have a Spinner, a way to kill Ghosts or just a simple Taunter, you can prevent Stealth Rock from ever being set up in the first place, thus it doesn't mean a Stealth Rock weakness will condemn a Pokemon to being unusable, although admittedly, it is still a weakness which they would rather not have.

 

[Gneiss is nice]

If there was Stealth Ice, Stealth Fire, Stealth Grass and so on there wouldn't be an overcentralization as people will have more options to deal with otherwise problematic Pokemon (Dragons like Salamence and Dragonite, Scizor, Swampert respectively in this case) and it is a pity we only have Stealth Rock which is unfortunate for those weak to Rock types. I despise Stealth Rock because of it's type discrimination, as it automatically makes anything weak to it at a disadvantage. That said, it doesn't mean Pokemon weak to Rock are unusable, if you have a Spinner, a way to kill Ghosts or just a simple Taunter, you can prevent Stealth Rock from ever being set up in the first place, thus it doesn't mean a Stealth Rock weakness will condemn a Pokemon to being unusable, although admittedly, it is still a weakness which they would rather not have.

I think the biggest problem is the very small distribution of Rapid Spinner. It really narrows down your choices if you feel like you need a Rapid Spinner, a SR inducer, a Spin Blocker, and maybe a Taunter. I just find it a bit silly that there are 4 roles dedicated to stopping one move that cripples a whole lot of pokemon.

 

[Nkululeko]

I think the biggest problem is the very small distribution of Rapid Spinner. It really narrows down your choices if you feel like you need a Rapid Spinner, a SR inducer, a Spin Blocker, and maybe a Taunter. I just find it a bit silly that there are 4 roles dedicated to stopping one move that cripples a whole lot of pokemon.

Let's be real:
1)Spinblocking is almost dead in 5th Gen
2)Many if not most effective leads and hazard support mons carry SR(Deoxys S and Ferrothorn/Forretress)
3)Taunt is common and blocks more than just entry hazards
4)Enough pokemon get rapid spin for it to be an effective move. Every major weather has a good Rapid Spinner option. (Rain-Starmie, Sun-Claydol, Sand-Excadrill)

 

[moonbound]

Although I agree with most of what you're saying, Blaziken, some legendaries, SwSw+Drizzle are part of the game. Didn't stop people from banning them. People don't 'just deal' with other things.

Yeah, but stealth rocks don't sweep teams, do they? There's a difference between being an annoyance that discourages switching and makes some pokes less useful and an unstoppable force that consistently sweeps entire teams. Also, it was only SB blaziken. I still think it's stupid that they banned blaze blaziken, something that was in 4th gen uu and only recieved one significant improvement.

 

[XienZo]

Yeah, but stealth rocks don't sweep teams, do they? There's a difference between being an annoyance that discourages switching and makes some pokes less useful and an unstoppable force that consistently sweeps entire teams. Also, it was only SB blaziken. I still think it's stupid that they banned blaze blaziken, something that was in 4th gen uu and only recieved one significant improvement.

The only difference is that a sweeping pokemon will hit your team dealing 100% damage 3 times, while the stealth rock hits your team with 12.5% damage 24 times.

 

[GreenWater10]

I believe stealth rock shouldn't be banned. It wasn't banned in the 4th gen, so why ban it now? If you aren't happy with it, then get rapid spin on a pokemon with a resistance to it.

The only way we might have to ban it is if they added 1 more entry hazard. You could easily kill a pokemon with 4 types of entry hazards on the field who would have a weakness to stealth rock and gets affected by the other 3.

 

[Boarbaque]

The fact that Stealth Rock can hit everyone, regardless of ability (except Magic Bounce) is just ridiculous. Its also ridiculous that the damage increases or decreases based on typing. Spikes and Toxic Spikes don't do that, but Stealth Rocks cannot be layered either.

Until Game Freak makes Stealth Rocks more like an actual entry hazard (making it layerable), reduces the damage it does, removing the type damage equations and making more abilities that are immune to it I think it should be banned. Its the most overpowered and overused thing ever.

I would also like Game Freak to make more moves that act like Rapid Spin, that way more and more pokemon can get rid of Stealth Rocks and other entry hazards.

It makes several pokemon horrible, which is just plain unfair. It also makes you go out of your way to use a move to get rid of it but that move can be completely resisted, which is unfair as well.

The fact that ive seen SR on EVERY freaking team tells me that it needs to be banned. Its so useful and overpowered that everyone uses it.

 

[UltiMario]

SR is used on like less than half the teams in Gen V than Gen IV.

What is with people.

 

[AuraSphere]

Damn...I'm like the only person here that doesn't use Stealth Rock.

 

[UltiMario]

I don't use Stealth Rock that often. I do when I find room for it, but if I can't, I just shrug it off and don't care.

 

[Drifloon]

Result of banning sr:

Pokemon 1 item: Focus sash
Pokemon 2 item: Focus sash
Pokemon 3 item: Focus sash
Pokemon 4 item: Focus sash
Pokemon 5 item: Focus sash
Pokemon 6 item: Focus sash

yeah, don't ban it, it keeps the metagame nice and healthy.

 

[UltiMario]

Spikes, toxic spikes, Hail, Sandstorm?

There are a dozen reasons not to ban SR, but that's not one of them.