Rarely Used (RU) Tier

[hobo bob]

In todays pre-vo corner:

Eviolite Rhydon is a fucking boss. Walls so much shit to hell and back, sets up a Sub on the switch, has over 400 defense and HP allowing to set up multiple SD's on physical attackers, its ridiculous. Special attackers hurt but it still has nearly 200 SpDef allowing it to easily get off a strong hit from behind a Sub with is great QuakeEdge coverage.

CB Zweilous takes the position of best dragon in the tier. Between CB and Hustle, its Outrages rip apart unprepared teams. It is really great except when its getting parahaxxed.

I've been trying out that evo rhydon, it just doesn't die O_O

Moltres has also been doing very well with a toxic SubRoost set, sometimes I'm able to go through entire teams by itself. Just try to keep rocks off the field or pack a spinner.

 

[pimpgangster]

Sharpedo is pretty common, but I wouldn't say it is the most common of them all. From personal experience, the Pokemon I see most are guys like Yanmega, Honchkrow, Venomoth and Cersselia. There are many other common Pokemon, but those are just the first ones that come to mind for me. Also, while not a specific Pokemon, bugs in general are really common, so you have to prepare for them.

I have seen alot of Mega and Krow, but after laddering for 2 hours everyday this week I stiil haven't seen Cress or veno

 

[kniteowl]

anyone here tried normal rotom (elec/ghost) to block rapid spin?

Tbolt can scare off Blastoise and HP-ice/Shadowball can hit Claydol, I hopt that doesnt mean more people will use Cryogonal and Sandslash.

I guess you can max out special bulk on Claydol and Blastoise but pain split rotom can by pass the bulk and just hit them with the appropriate Super effect move to finish off when they're low on HP.

Electrode is actually an excellent Yanmega check that outspeeds Tinted Lens variants, is immune to Bug Buzz and resistant to Air Slash, is rarely weak to coverage moves, and has STAB Thunderbolt/Thunder. Seems a bit gimmicky outside of that overly-specific role, but it still of course has use on rain teams. You can also put specs or life orb on it for an offensive wallbreaker set, since its special attack isn't terrible in RU with a boost (it also has Charge Beam) and it doesn't have to worry so much about speed, although its offensive movepool is lacking. It also has the fastest taunt in RU outside of Pranksters if anything is going to try and stall it, has substitute for Sucker Punchers, has Light Screen for bulkier sets to try and special wall, and has T-Wave for spreading the love.

He's actually a more surefire counter than Rotom-S, since he can beat any variant of Yanmega, depending on what set you're running, including Scarf and Specs Tinted Lens sets, which destroy Rotom-S. There's HP Ground of course, but nobody uses that on the switch lol, and you can always hold a balloon if it's that terrifying. The main advantage of course is that if Yanmega chooses the wrong move (and Yanmega is ridiculously prone to spamming Bug Buzz, considering its advantages over his other moves) you get away with it entirely free (even Rotom-S is dented slightly), balloon un-popped if you're holding one, with a free turn to Rain Dance / Light Screen / Substitute / Thunderbolt. He's probably only useful if you have a spare slot and your Yanmega weakness is otherwise devastating though, lol (and rain teams often struggle with Yanmega anyway, which is where Electrode thrives).

But if more people use electrode to counter Yanmega, Would that mean people start using Signal beam instead of Bug Buzz?

Electrode suddenly isn't such a good counter, Is base 60 HP and base 80 Sp-def enough to take a Signal beam on the switch?

But if People start using Signal beam instead, what was once 1hko or 2hko on other threats become 2hko and 3hko... hmmm....

 

[Xephyr]

I have seen alot of Mega and Krow, but after laddering for 2 hours everyday this week I stiil haven't seen Cress or veno

You haven't seen any Cress? How is that possible?! It's in like almost every match for me!

 

[Cornholio]

But if more people use electrode to counter Yanmega, Would that mean people start using Signal beam instead of Bug Buzz?

Electrode suddenly isn't such a good counter, Is base 60 HP and base 80 Sp-def enough to take a Signal beam on the switch?

But if People start using Signal beam instead, what was once 1hko or 2hko on other threats become 2hko and 3hko... hmmm....

Can 60 HP and 80 SpD take a Giga Drain full force? Now that you can see that other team before the battle starts it would be easy to see the switch coming if Electrode is your main counter.

 

[Meru]

How the hell do people beat Lilligant? I switch Scarfape in, only to get a Quiver Dance, and then I U-turn out, which does not OHKO, while they get a second Quiver Dance, then Giga Drain all over my team.

How did this not even make the UU cut?

 

[DTC]

I can beat Lilligant's when they get a few quiver dances up by using my 252 HP 252 Attack Throh to circle throw it and remove the stat boosts. I haven't really faced many Lilligant's but once I did this when they came back I beat them before they really got to set up.

Has anyone here tried Specs Galvantula? That thing is amazing. I've beaten many teams using it.

I wonder why so many people are having trouble with Yanmega, I beat them pretty easily. I only have trouble with those annoying choice band Honchkrow's and their sucker punches.

 

[Nails]

Keep the discussion on topic. This thread is for discussion of the RU metagame, not whether a pokemon looks like it should have a move. This is a site for competitive pokemon.

Munchlax has seen no discussion as a yanmega counter, even though it is the best counter in RU.

Munchlax (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 40 Atk / 216 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Frustration
- Rock Slide
- Toxic
- Whirlwind

It takes about 30% from life orb bug buzz and with 40 evs in attack does 80% min with rock slide, which is a guaranteed ko after 2 rounds of life orb recoil. It can also counter shell passing/venomoth with whirlwind and its amazing 414/442 special bulk. Frustration hits really hard off its decent base 85 attack, and toxic gets better all around coverage on bulky pokes like dusknoir/cresselia/rhyperior/etc.

#rarelyused on irc is the official channel, join it

Edit: Munchlax phazaes lilligant once if it gets the chance to set up. It only gets one chance to ever set up really because of sleep powder, so it's usually enough.

 

[v]

Keep the discussion on topic. This thread is for discussion of the RU metagame, not whether a pokemon looks like it should have a move. This is a site for competitive pokemon.

Nails knows what's up. I don't want to see another six or some so post sidebar discussing whether or not a Pokemon "looks" like it should have a move. It's irrelevant. A Pokemon has a move or does not have a move. This forum is not for speculation or flavor debates outside of some of the more "flavorful" threads. Keep flavor where it belongs, which incidentally isn't here. Warnings will be doled out next time.

 

[hobo bob]

How the hell do people beat Lilligant? I switch Scarfape in, only to get a Quiver Dance, and then I U-turn out, which does not OHKO, while they get a second Quiver Dance, then Giga Drain all over my team.

How did this not even make the UU cut?

Any variants that use HP fire are walled by Alteria and Moltres, and Entei is bulky enough to take boosted Giga Drains. Honch can also take a +1 hp fire even with rocks and hit back with Brave Bird, but it will die from recoil (you could sucker punch, but then it just becomes a guessing game). Entei seems to be the safest bet because of its resists, bulk, and priority.

The main problem with Lilligant is it gets two turns of set up with an already great boosting move. It can come in on something it counters, get one dance from the switch it causes, can sleep powder the counter and proceed to either KO or grab even more free boosts. This is ignoring the fact that Lilli can heal off any damage it takes with Giga Drain, and can sweep even when toxic'ed.


If you are using Lilligant, I find it wise to take out a few EVs from speed and invest them in HP and/or Def. The extra bulk helps it sponge hits and lets it survive any of ScarfApe's attacks. This thing is too good for RU, I've swept entire teams with Lilli alone.

 

[Dwarfspider]

By the way, here's a question: are there any decent toxic spikers in the tier other than Drapion and Scolipede? I've had no success with Scolipede and Drapion is kinda meh.

Venomoth is a viable user of toxic spikes.

 

[Brammi]

How the hell do people beat Lilligant? I switch Scarfape in, only to get a Quiver Dance, and then I U-turn out, which does not OHKO, while they get a second Quiver Dance, then Giga Drain all over my team.

How did this not even make the UU cut?

Mirror Coat Cradily can take a +6 hit and survive. Actually it can also take a +6 hit from Cofagrigus too.

 

[Red Alert]

How the hell do people beat Lilligant? I switch Scarfape in, only to get a Quiver Dance, and then I U-turn out, which does not OHKO, while they get a second Quiver Dance, then Giga Drain all over my team.

How did this not even make the UU cut?

Specially defensive resttalk entei is probably the best lilligant counter out there. Entei also does a good job of walling venomoth, yanmega, rotom-c, and galvantula, which are pretty much the main special threats in ru aside from cresselia and the swift swimmers, obviously.

Moltres also does a good job, although you need to work much harder on keeping rocks out.

On that note, has anyone figured out a good way of dealing with rain dance/shell smash teams? Should I just throw a ferroseed on the team or something?

 

[DarthChocoboz]

On that note, has anyone figured out a good way of dealing with rain dance/shell smash teams? Should I just throw a ferroseed on the team or something?

Use sunny day and roar on that entei ;)

 

[Meru]

Any variants that use HP fire are walled by Alteria and Moltres, and Entei is bulky enough to take boosted Giga Drains. Honch can also take a +1 hp fire even with rocks and hit back with Brave Bird, but it will die from recoil (you could sucker punch, but then it just becomes a guessing game). Entei seems to be the safest bet because of its resists, bulk, and priority.

All of those suggestions are SR weak. And Specially Defensive Entei doesn't sound good to me. A SR weak Rest-Talker? No thanks.

 

[Xephyr]

All of those suggestions are SR weak. And Specially Defensive Entei doesn't sound good to me. A SR weak Rest-Talker? No thanks.

It's actually quite excellent, especially with Rapid Spin support. I use him on a FWG core along with Meganium (try it. I promise you won't be disappointed) and Blastoise for spinning and it creates an EXTREMELY solid defensive core.

EDIT:

I actually just put that exact team up for an RMT (minus Meganium. I replaced it with Lilligant).

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3449603

This is one of the first few RU RMT's. We need to get more of these posted up so we can keep learning more about the metagame!

 

[Synth_Metal]

Dragonair can rape shit after +2 Dragon Dance with Outrage because of far fewer steel types in this metagame

 

[Shinyweavile]

A SR weak Rest-Talker? No thanks.

Gyarados says hi.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

I've been using Lilligant a lot, and I've found it work very well. Moltres has been the main issue for me really, but in general I find it has quite an easy time. I often also give it a head start in terms of stat boosts Baton Passed from Venomoth and/or Gorebyss. Giga Drain is very useful, if only for regaining health. Sleep Powder is great too, since you can get your Speed very high in little time, and if you can sleep the opponent it lets you get another turn of Quiver boosts or healing from Giga Drain.

 

[Xephyr]

I've been using Lilligant a lot, and I've found it work very well. Moltres has been the main issue for me really, but in general I find it has quite an easy time. I often also give it a head start in terms of stat boosts Baton Passed from Venomoth and/or Gorebyss. Giga Drain is very useful, if only for regaining health. Sleep Powder is great too, since you can get your Speed very high in little time, and if you can sleep the opponent it lets you get another turn of Quiver boosts or healing from Giga Drain.

To fix your Moltres problem, use Hidden Power Rock. You're probably using HP Fire instead or something, and there's really nothing HP Fire does that HP Rock can't (besides Ferroseed. Whatever).

 

[Lokiman42]

Also make SURE you are able to kill Resting Cresselias. There aren't many things that suck more than being completely unable to kill a Cresselia that's Calm Minding and can Rest away any status you throw on it.

So basically, dark and bug types are very necessary and common.

By the way, here's a question: are there any decent toxic spikers in the tier other than Drapion and Scolipede? I've had no success with Scolipede and Drapion is kinda meh.

Try Quilfish. He gets Intimidate now.

 

[Xephyr]

Try Quilfish. He gets Intimidate now.

That's not a bad idea. What kind of set is good on him?

 

[Pika25]

Guys, this is not an RMT thread although you're about to make it that way. And Shinyweavile, gyara is OU anyway.

 

[sax king]

That Munchlax set looks dirty, but I want to use my Curselax set. Is a Curselax Munchlax set viable in RU? Obviously it is going to have trouble with pokes like Clear Smog Weezing and Band Primeape.

 

[Meru]

Gyarados says hi.

Does Entei have Intimidate? No.

Does Entei Dragon Tail to negate the sleep talking negative priority (aka a chance to not be phaze bait for stall teams)? No.

Is Entei immune to T-spikes and Spikes? No.

Is RestTalk Gyarados even his most popular set in OU? Hell no.

RestTalkers aside from Gyarados and Milotic (who both use Dragon Tail) are pretty much dead this Gen.