Dream World Tier Discussion

[lostaurora]

It's also a broken tier where everyone uses Rain.
Lets face it, there isn't much variety. Even Sand fails here thanks to Keldeo raping everything, allowing Rain to...reign supreme.
Now you got Latios spamming +1 Attacks all over the place and then comes Genesect to counter him, but then comes Chandelure to trap him.
Everything revolves around Latios, Genesect, Politoed, Chandelure, Keldeo, and Ferrothorn.

Not that there IS much variety at the top of the DW ladder, but it's not so different from OU, which doesn't exhibit variety either. In general, there is more variety in DW because there are no voting reqs so people are more willing to try out new things without risking their rank from dropping.

Keldeo is good against a lot of Sand and Rain users, but ever since Soul Dew Lati@s was discovered to be legal, it's really not so great. Those two don't take much damage even from +1 HP Ice, with Latios taking a maximum of ~55% in my experience, while it does like 90% back to +1 Keldeo with Thunder. Ferrothorn also gives it a lot of trouble.

What you've said about revolving around this set of Pokemon is true, but how is that not the same in OU? Everything revolves around Tyranitar, Politoed, Scizor, Excadrill, Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, and Latios.

 

[PokéMontage]

People say it's a "fantasy" game because DW is all just "hoping" that this stuff gets released.
Most of the DW tier can't be played legitimately on the cartridge yet and therefore it IS a "fantasy" tier.

It's also a broken tier where everyone uses Rain.
Lets face it, there isn't much variety. Even Sand fails here thanks to Keldeo raping everything, allowing Rain to...reign supreme.
Now you got Latios spamming +1 Attacks all over the place and then comes Genesect to counter him, but then comes Chandelure to trap him.
Everything revolves around Latios, Genesect, Politoed, Chandelure, Keldeo, and Ferrothorn.

The fact that these things aren't released yet obviously means that DW is not going to be the standard game, but some individuals despising the idea of people playing around with things that haven't been released yet is ridiculous. It's good practice because DW is the future of the metagame. Much more likely than not, one day we're going to have to deal with the real threats of Keldeo, Genesect, ST Chandelure, Contrary Serperior etc. The only problem is whether or not certain Pokemon get released as females which is something we cannot predict, but the impact of that is fairly miniscule.
The reason things are so broken there is because nobody has the time to monitor and test DW and the standard metagame at the same time. That would require ridiculous effort.

It's not "fantasy" because these things are going to be released at some point. People like to act smart and go "well nothing's definite hurrdurr," but nobody honestly believes that. Now if DW included things like potential move tutor moves, that would be fantasy because there is absolutely no way we can predict that. It's not in the game's coding.

 

[Virizion]

The fact that these things aren't released yet obviously means that DW is not going to be the standard game, but some individuals despising the idea of people playing around with things that haven't been released yet is ridiculous. It's good practice because DW is the future of the metagame. Much more likely than not, one day we're going to have to deal with the real threats of Keldeo, Genesect, ST Chandelure, Contrary Serperior etc. The only problem is whether or not certain Pokemon get released as females which is something we cannot predict, but the impact of that is fairly miniscule.
The reason things are so broken there is because nobody has the time to monitor and test DW and the standard metagame at the same time. That would require ridiculous effort.

It's not "fantasy" because these things are going to be released at some point. People like to act smart and go "well nothing's definite hurrdurr," but nobody honestly believes that. Now if DW included things like potential move tutor moves, that would be fantasy because there is absolutely no way we can predict that. It's not in the game's coding.

Well, there's not much for me to say since I agree with pretty much every pro-DW argument, but it still confuses me that LC is an official tier with a thousand battles being played per month, and Dream World isn't official yet, though it has 100x the amount of battles being played per month (as pointed out by jrrrr on the last page). Surely people have time for DW if they have time for LC/to a lesser extent, Ubers (I approve of Ubers though).

 

[Gerard]

Well, there's not much for me to say since I agree with pretty much every pro-DW argument, but it still confuses me that LC is an official tier with a thousand battles being played per month, and Dream World isn't official yet, though it has 100x the amount of battles being played per month (as pointed out by jrrrr on the last page). Surely people have time for DW if they have time for LC/to a lesser extent, Ubers (I approve of Ubers though).

Leave LC alone u.u!

My guess of why there aren't suspect testing in DW (or even a subforum) is the same for why there are not Suspect testing in RU (and again, not even a subforum), there is really not enouh hours in the day, LC has been there for years now and is an established tier, DW and RU no, they are fairly new and they will probably get some testing after the main metagame gets stablished and balanced, like NU last gen, it was supposed to get suspects but it just never happend, thanks in part to UU changing and that not enough "important" people cared about it, and the ones that care already are too busy working on toher things, not saying is not important, but many players are a little mad or whatever against this tier, so i guess it will require time

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Hmm, question. Is Aqua Jet + Belly Drum Azumarill allowed? It's in the game's coding, it only needs a single parent which learns both moves to be released, in the same vein Shadow Tag Chandelure needs... Shadow Tag Chandelure to be released to even exist. Same thing about Outrage + Moxie Salamence, or Baton Pass + LightningRod Zapdos (ok this one is a bit sketchier); I know female Speed Boost Blaziken is allowed, so...

I personally enjoy the fact that DW isn't an official metagame. It keeps annoying suspect tests away from the game. The DW metagame would be destroyed if we let OU players get their grubby paws on it. Although it would be interesting to test things like Rough Skin Garchomp and pokemon like Manaphy since Lati@s has their soul dew.

Oh God, I don't play DW since October (!), but I sincerely hope it never gets a Suspect testing rolling. It wouldn't be any different from OU if we did so, for good and for bad.

 

[IcyMan28]

Hmm, question. Is Aqua Jet + Belly Drum Azumarill allowed? It's in the game's coding, it only needs a single parent which learns both moves to be released, in the same vein Shadow Tag Chandelure needs... Shadow Tag Chandelure to be released to even exist. Same thing about Outrage + Moxie Salamence, or Baton Pass + LightningRod Zapdos (ok this one is a bit sketchier); I know female Speed Boost Blaziken is allowed, so...



Oh God, I don't play DW since October (!), but I sincerely hope it never gets a Suspect testing rolling. It wouldn't be any different from OU if we did so, for good and for bad.

I don't believe they are. The reasoning is that while we can be fairly certain that these DW abilities will be released (the game literally restricts the "options" of which ability a pokemon can get), we have no indication that a viable parent will result for BellyJet Azumarill, or that Baton Pass will be the special move featured on Lightningrod Zapdos.

 

[Raj]

I haven't played DW in a few weeks, is it true about Thunderachi everywhere? I liked being the only one knowing of its greatness >_>.

also, didn'tknow you played DW jr7, but I'm glad that someone of your stature has respect for it; light knows the other "higher ups" don't.

 

[NDenizen]

The thing is, DW was pretty much the metagame I played when the BW update was finally released. It was all new and exciting and I wanted to play with all the new toys that had been mentioned, simply because of them were so interesting.

The actual metagame just struck me as Gen 4.5 and really not that fun.

 

[Benny in a Jet]

Since Meloetta isn't technically released yet, she should only be playable in DW. Does she make any sort of impact in this meta?

 

[hoiboy]

tbh, I've seen two Meloetta's in all the time I've spent laddering.

 

[Chappers]

Meloetta isn't particularly bad, just very unpopular. After setting up with relic song she hits fast and hard (the one's i've faced used relic song/close combat/shadow claw/????). She'll probably not make OU, but also likely to be too powerful for UU.

 

[lostaurora]

Since Meloetta isn't technically released yet, she should only be playable in DW. Does she make any sort of impact in this meta?

It's very rare, I almost never see it. The problem is that most Meloetta will be the Step Forme physically based version, which hits hard with STAB Close Combat and has great speed - but it takes a turn to set up with Relic Song every time and is pretty much doomed against Ghosts because Shadow Claw from Voice Forme doesn't really do anything. In addition, even after that turn of setup, Meloetta can't beat stuff like Gliscor that give the average Fighting-type trouble, so it isn't really worth using over something like Lucario unless you have a very specific need to fill.

 

[lostaurora]

Added entries on Jirachi and Ditto.

 

[lordkira]

sad to see how dw isn't regarded as a standard meta
for the actual meta, i've been seeing a massive...massive rise of genosect usage in my opponents' teams

 

[Olijolly]

Is it just me or is it easier to ladder on DW OU now?
I've just gotten up to rank 5th today with the most random team ever.

 

[lordkira]

Yeah I was able to get up to top 10 in like a day and I suck.
However, that's probably because the very few that used to be very good in DW tier left a while ago. BTW what's your team? I might've fought you and won/lost against you (hopefully won).

 

[Olijolly]

Yeah I was able to get up to top 10 in like a day and I suck.
However, that's probably because the very few that used to be very good in DW tier left a while ago. BTW what's your team? I might've fought you and won/lost against you (hopefully won).

my team was a drizzle team with gyara and gatr
I'm now down to like 30th though -_-; I just lost three times in a row uggghhhh

 

[lordkira]

my team was a drizzle team with gyara and gatr
I'm now down to like 30th though -_-; I just lost three times in a row uggghhhh

Oh I think i might've lost against you
were you the one using deoxys-d
that pokemon was a fucking whore

 

[That Noob]

Lol I got #7 on DW ladder a while ago in an hour using a team with Soul Dew Latios and Latias =3

 

[Spenstar]

It's very rare, I almost never see it. The problem is that most Meloetta will be the Step Forme physically based version, which hits hard with STAB Close Combat and has great speed - but it takes a turn to set up with Relic Song every time and is pretty much doomed against Ghosts because Shadow Claw from Voice Forme doesn't really do anything. In addition, even after that turn of setup, Meloetta can't beat stuff like Gliscor that give the average Fighting-type trouble, so it isn't really worth using over something like Lucario unless you have a very specific need to fill.

with any luck, a third installment will give Meloetta a version of Giratina-O's item; boosts some of her moves and has her always be step form.

Anyway, I used to play DW when BW first came out. I remember needing Magic Bounce Espeon, Imposter Ditto, and Eviolite Chansey on all my teams. I also loved Blaziken, but I cant even abuse it here... is Blaziken really broken in DW OU, with its faster-paced metagame, ST Chandelure, and Ditto running around?

I might go back to DW OU in the future, just because I love Ditto and Genesect so much. if DW OU gets Blaziken back you have me sold. not sure as of now, though; once I got adjusted to Wifi OU I just... stopped. IDK why

 

[Spenstar]

(apologizing for the double post) why doesn't DW OU get its own sub-forum like other non-standard tiers, when DW OU has more users than any of them?

 

[Matthew]

It's because the the Dream World tier isn't not nearly as active as either the standard OU or standard UU tiers are (I could be wrong about the latter in that statement). However If you guys like it that much then keep it going! Make strong posts in this thread, keep it active. Talk about the tier. What's working and what isn't. If you prove that the tier is worth something well something may come out of it.

 

[Pocket]

Is it possible for a mod to ban Soul Dew and Shadow Tag Chandelure from DWorld? Kind of like how Aldaron unbanned Garchomp, Manaphy, Thundurus, and Excadrill for the Clear Skies tier.

It would make DWorld tier more playable imo. Those with heavy playing experience in this tier can refute me if I am spouting bullshit.

 

[Matthew]

I'd love to hear more about the banning / unbanning of pokemon for the Dream World tier. If you can present clear and strong arguments about the tier I'd be happy to go through and remove / unban some pokemon. If you guys want Dream World to be an official tier then make it official, like I've been saying.

 

[GDK]

Meh, Dream world tier is just like the future metagame actually.

So banning stuff there will mean, it should be autobanned when it is released.


It's weird.