Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

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ElectivireRocks

Banned deucer.
Jellicent is going to cripple Tyranitar with WOW, Recover the damage off and then switch out, so I don't see why anyone would claim that Tyranitar can Pursuit trap it.

Also, Celebi can potentially 2HKO both Keldeo and Tyranitar with Seed Bomb so don't assume Tyranitar is a 100% safe check.
 

Finchinator

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Doesn't Alakazam kill both? Focus Blast for Ttar, Psychic/Psyshock for Keldeo???
Yes, but it is so frail that it will be brought to sash by practically any attack - if not 2HKOd. (And it has to hit Fail Blast on Tyranitar.)
Also, Scarf Keldeo out speeds it and can kill it from anywhere but full health (thanks to sash.)

I suppose it is a /decent/ check but, Alakazam has few other merits in OU.
 

Gary

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I agree with putting Ludicolo in D-Rank. Although Ludicolo may seem gimmicky in OU, like Kingdra it can take advantage of rain when the opponent is using it, as well as become a nasty late game sweeper when Rain Dance is in play. Grass/Water is a fantastic typing offensively and defensively, and Ludicolo can be quite devastating. Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Giga Drain is all it needs to hit a majority of the metagame. It's definitely true that Ludicolo can rip through offensive teams with its awesome coverage, as I myself have been swept by the rare Ludicolo. D-Rank seems just fine.
 
I'd say Ludicolo in C-Rank is more accurate. He's got STAB Hydro Pump, obviously, as well as STAB Giga Drain which gives him a MUCH better tool against bulky waters than Kingdra has, but he also has Focus Blast which is a clean 2HKO against Ferrothorn, and Hydro Pump followed by Focus Blast is ALSO a clean 2HKO in the rain. Power Whip IS a clean 2HKO against you, but he's got to come in on Giga Drain and hope you start missing/he doesn't, as even Ice Beam + Focus Blast can take him out if he's taken too much prior damage.

I've had more trouble against Ludicolo in the past thanks to his superior coverage than I have Kingdra. C-Rank for sure.
 
With some people kinda debating on the subdivisions. I'll try to help out and make my own personal list for subdivisions on the A-Rank Pokemon. This can be used as a first draft of some sort or a reference point to debate off of.

A+

Celebi: Celebi is an incredible Pokemon in the current meta. It's sole existence can literally change the entire purpose of a specific Pokemon (the rise of Ebelt HP Bug Keldeo) Celebi is pretty much the best Pokemon in the game against Rain and Sand teams especially with Baton Pass. With the current metagame being filled to the brim with Rain/Sand, I would (personally) call it the best A-Rank Pokemon. Its weakness to sun is not too big of a problem when it partners amazingly with Heatran; arguably the best Sun Check in the game.

Garchomp: Garchomp is a beast. It has been nominated here to S-Rank a few times before. SubSD YacheChomp can possibly be the most threatening wallbreaker that ever existed (Hi Hydreigon) and the SubSalac Chomp set that is starting to rise is really good as well. It can also run Choice sets very effectively, with CB Garchomp hitting really damn hard. The funniest part about this entire thing is that I haven't even spoken about the Stealth Rock sets, which shows how diverse of an offensive threat this thing can be. It also works well with most weather teams, using Aqua Tail Garchomp in the Rain (cuz screw Lando-T) as well as having great synergy with the main weather sweepers (Garchomp works with Stoutland well, especially with Fblast Lure. I've seen a few Rain teams with Chomp in it, as well as Sun). Garchomp is pretty much the ideal goodstuffs mon. Deservant of A+

Hippowdon: Probably the first thing that's gonna be disagreed with. Hippowdon is a really good Pokemon. It functions as a solid physical wall while being a massive asset in Sand Stall teams -- a rather commonly seen playstyle in tournaments. Hippowdon can also function as either an incredible mixed wall, or a sole physical wall to pretty much stop guys like Terrakion right in there tracks. It is also imo the most reliable SR setter for stall teams in the entire game. Hippowdon is also the only weather inducer that has recovery (Abomasnow has Leech Seed, TUO is a filthy liar) which gives it a massive advantage in the weather war -- which is really important in BW2.

Jirachi: You probably got blown up by SubCM Jirachi one time in your life. You probably also got super pissed off at ParaFlinch Rachi. You also probably got surprise-revenge killed by a Scarf Jirachi. That's just the start. Jirachi is so versatile but it doesn't suffer the "jack of all trades; master of none" syndrome as it can run pretty much every set it uses to its fullest effect and can each of them really well. It can also pretty much fit into every playstyle. It is a great revenge killer on Hyper Offense teams, a good momentum setter/Lati@s check for sun (yeah I'm kinda pushing it) it can function like a beast in Rain, and works rather well on Sand Stall/Balanced teams. Jirachi is an incredibly good Pokemon all around.

Latios: Ironic that the Pokemon I'm talking about next is walled by the Pokemon above it. Well, Latios is a huge offensive threat. I just wanna make this quick because there really isn't much to say. Offensive check to Keldeo/Landorus/Breloom. Nearly nothing switches in. Trick cripples walls. Amazing bluffing capabilities with Expert Belt sets. Craps on Sun. Fastest Scarfer in the meta. Pretty much all you have to say about Latios. Dealing with KelTarBreloom while maintaining the most offensive momentum is quite the feat.

Thundurus-Therian: Alright remember what I said about Celebi? Well this thing is the 2nd best A-Rank mon. While Celebi is that good because of how anti-meta it is, Thundy-T is good because it's just overall good. Thundy-T can smash Rain really well while not really hampered by anything in the meta that weakens its effectiveness (like how Rain affects Nape, Kyurem-B with Fighting-Types etc.) as it can resolve any of those possible issues either with an Agility boost or a Nasty Plot boost. Thundurus-Therian can run 5 sets effectively: Nasty Plot dedicated Wallbreaker, Agility wrecks offense if it gets 1 boost, Double Dance is probably the best set, combining both above, Choice Scarf and Ebelt. Thundurus-Therian has a weird sense of versatility among those sets, even though it is just a mix and match of a few moves. It also brings a few resistances and immunities to the table which is always nice.

Tyranitar: Tyranitar is the key to letting the beasts roam wild (Keldeo and Landorus) Tyranitar fills a role that is probably the best thing to have in this meta -- a bulky but Powerful Pursuit user. Pursuit is so damn good in this meta with Psychic and Ghost-types being the main force that is used against the top ranked Pokemon in the current metagame. To add to that more, it has access to infinite sandstorm which is amazing with dealing with opposing weathers. That's not even the end of it. It can function as an exceptional lure with either mixed sets, or just 2HKOing the Skarmory with a CB Stone Edge after SR. There are a lot of interesting sets that are being discovered for this guy which makes him unpredictable while giving massive offensive utility to a team. Lastly, it can also be good on stall teams that suffer against Latios (think Amoongbro) as well as being really bulky with the Specially Defensive set.


A

Dragonite: Dragonite is a shadow of what is used to be in BW1. It's still effective, but a lot less then it used to be. Dragonite has 2 good sets atm: CB and DD. I have to say CBNite is absolutely brilliant. It's really bulky thanks to multiscale and it's good resistances and smashes every single switch-in with proper prediction. The other set is Dragon Dance, which is still a good mid-game sweeper hole puncher that can do really well opening some guys up thanks to it having good ways to setup. The meta is still rather unkind to it with checks to Dnite going left and right. However, Dragonite is just so good overall that it can maintain its place as a staple in OU. Actually, the reason I'm keeping this in A rather than A- is just because it has the rare ability to check Sun.

Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn is a very good wall. It has access to the coveted SR+Spikes combo while still having access to good support moves that stop it from being setup bait such as Twave and Gyro Ball. It also has good longevity in the form of Leech Seed. Ferrothorn pretty much has all the stuff to be a good wall. A Water resist, a dragon resist, and amazing typing which is complimented by the best playstyle out there. However, the fact that the main offensive S-Rank threats can beat it out as well as the idea that Ferrothorn is a rare sight outside of rain in high levels of play limits Ferrothorn to A.

Heatran: Heatran is a Pokemon that loses to all the S-Rank Pokemon, loses to every rain Pokemon, every Fighting Pokemon and is possible to trap but this thing is still all the way up here. This is due to the fact that Heatran deals with nearly everything else. I have a lot of trouble not fitting him into my team unless it's really dumb to do so because he brings a lot of offensive utility to the plate. It offensively checks sun which is invaluable, it sets up SR, resists Dragon while beating Magnezone, it walls Scizor with proper prediction, it nukes everything in Sun, it has ~8 sets that it can run. Hopefully that's all you need to know. If they removed the main Water and Fighting-Type Pokemon here, I would say that this would be the best Pokemon in the game. I never really used much or have trouble with the Specially defensive set, but it has been used to great effect so anyone can comment here.

Jellicent: I'm kinda on the fence with this one. It's really good in walling Keldeo and has a Water+Fighting Immunity, while being a good defensive spinblocker. However, it's kinda niche and has weakness to Pursuit while it can't really do much to a lot of Pokemon. I rarely use this but from what I've seen this thing is in limbo between A and A-.

Kyurem-B: Alright something I can talk about better now. Kyurem-Black can easily just knock a Pokemon out. If it sets up a Sub, it's pretty much game over for one of your mons. The fact that it is so easy to put someone in lose-lose situations just by getting Kyurem-B in is terrifying. It's the bulkiest dragon iirc with solid defensive typing that has a Water and Electric-resist which is invaluable against Rain. Of course this is a problem against Fighting and Rock-Types, but it really isn't meant to deal with them, as well as the fact that they can't switch in. Kyurem-B is also very diverse in role, it can function well on pretty much every archetype of a team as well. Of course, its susceptibility to being revenge killed pretty much forces it in A Tier.
Latias: Read what I said about Latios checking Sun teams and KelTarLando, just double that. Latias can possibly be the biggest problem to any Pokemon that it can comfortably resist. It is pretty much the most reliable Special Pivot in the game. It can function on Stall teams and Offense teams, either with it's LO set or the SubCM Set. It does suffer some issues with being giant Tyranitar fodder. As well as being really easy to wall with the Life Orb set (a lot easier than most people think) as well as having a Pursuit Weakness and
easy to abuse problems on the defensive set.
Landorus-T: Landorus-Therian is probably in limbo between A+ and A. It is the best Physical pivot in the game. With Stealth Rock, U-Turn, Intimidate, and amazing coverage, it is amazing at switching in while giving massive utility to the team while maintaining offensive momentum. Landorus-Therian also bodies DragMag teams. As it can tank most unboosted Outrages without being weak to Magnezone. It's typing is also really good for a wall. I also need to mention that Landorus-T has a lot more sets than people think. Rock Polish or Double Dance is friggin scary to deal with as a lot of people underrate that massive Attack stat of his and can easily catch guys off guard. Its massive weakness to rain and its lack of reliable recovery forces it down to A Rank rather than A+
Ninetales: Lowest weather inducer for a reason. It sets up Sun and doesn't do anything aside from that. Even then, it relies on Dugtrio/Gothitelle/Heatran in order to win the weather war. It is the centerpiece of an extremely powerful playstyle but is terrible standalone and relies on too much team support just to do its own goal. That just makes it quick.
Rotom-W: Rotom-W is good. It is a unique check to a lot of stuff and is very good at maintaining momentum with Volt Switch. It can run a few sets such as SpD Rotom or Scarf Rotom-W and can surprise guys like SpD Celebi by Tricking it, potentially rendering it useless. Rotom-W functions as a decent check to rain thanks to it's good defensive typing. Lastly, Levitate makes it an amazing check against a majority of Ground-Types in the tier. Rotom-W is probably the most annoying Pokemon that is viable right now.
Scizor: King of DPP, Powerful as ever. I honestly hope this is self-explanatory. Scizor is a solid revenge killer and hole puncher until now. It has good synergy with a lot of great Pokemon like Thundurus-T and has a really powerful priority attack. Scizor also can nab momentum with U-Turn really well as it can lure the likes of Jellicent in to get trapped by a Tyranitar, or U-Turning into Gothitelle when they send out Tentacruel (btw, Gothitelle/Scizor is brilliant) Of course, the fact that it gives Keldeo free switch in opportunities and it lacks a proper affiliaton with weather makes it drop down from A+ to A.
Starmie: Starmie is the best spinner. Offensive spinner is really good while checking Keldeo. It can also dent most Tyranitar with an offensive set given you can somehow make the opponent assume you are Bulky. It functions exceptionally in Rain and against rain, which is really good to have in the current meta. It does have some sorta 4MSS though while having a Pursuit weakness hinders it from A-Rank.
Volcarona: Alright everyone will probably disagree with me here. However, if you look at a lot of RMTs lately. Every single thing is 6-0'd by Volcarona (exaggeration). Volcarona works so well as an anti-metagame force in the current moment by smashing nearly every single sand team given it can get enough setup opportunities (weaken Keldeo) and HP Ground volc says GG to Sand Stall. Volcarona also can kill sun so easily while functioning in sun itself. It is most commonly seen in Sun but can also still be used in rain with Hurricane. Volcarona's SR weakness seems like too big of an issue, but the fact that most sun's team entire plan is to get SR Off the field makes Volcarona not struggle too much. Actually, it's biggest problem might be susceptibility to scarfers.

A-
Alakazam: An amazing safety blanket to offensive teams against opposing offensive teams. In a metagame where one needs to establish a superior offensive presence over the other offensive team, Alakazam flourishes as an offensive momentum disruptor. Alakazam does have some obvious flaws such as Pursuit weakness and it can't really do much outside of Sash but overall Alakazam is still good.
Breloom: Breloom was near S-Rank when it came out with technician imo. However, it really dropped because now, most teams easily have a check to it and it isn't too hard to deal with Breloom. Breloom does offer a ton of versatility and works really well on a lot of Hyper Offense teams. I personally don't see Breloom as a top tier threat anymore. However, Breloom is still really threatening.
Gengar:
Kyurem:
Mamoswine:
Salamence:
Skarmory:
Tentacruel
Venusaur:


I don't know how long I can keep this up. I'll edit this and finish it up with descriptions and reasonings soon.
just finished up a majority of my list for the OU viability Ranking subdivision thread for A-Rank. You can use this as a reference point in debate. PK Gaming, you can also use this as a initial starting point and improve on it. Just wanted to re-put this out there.
 
Latias and latios should switch places and kyurem-b should be Top A-rank.
Latias is just more effective than latios in the current metagame. Her better bulk allows her to tank attacks from keldeo, terrakion etc, which latios cannot do. Because of her better bulk, latias's life orb set is much more effective. This limits latios to choice sets.

I'll explain kyurem-b later.
 

Neliel

Sacred Sword
Latias and latios should switch places and kyurem-b should be Top A-rank.
Latias is just more effective than latios in the current metagame. Her better bulk allows her to tank attacks from keldeo, terrakion etc, which latios cannot do. Because of her better bulk, latias's life orb set is much more effective. This limits latios to choice sets.

I'll explain kyurem-b later.
This is only from the point of view of their defenses. You are missing the fact that while latias has more bulk, it also has less sp. atk, which means you are going to lose to cb tyranitar because surf does not 2ko, you do less damages to heatran, blissey, scizor, ferrothorn, sp def celebi, sp def hippowdown, jellicent, and the list can go on. In general, the only set that latias does objectively better is the defensive calm mind and the wisher, while latios is superior in the scarf/specs/dd set/ebelt set. So no, imo latios its still the better choice.
 
This is only from the point of view of their defenses. You are missing the fact that while latias has more bulk, it also has less sp. atk, which means you are going to lose to cb tyranitar because surf does not 2ko, you do less damages to heatran, blissey, scizor, ferrothorn, sp def celebi, sp def hippowdown, jellicent, and the list can go on. In general, the only set that latias does objectively better is the defensive calm mind and the wisher, while latios is superior in the scarf/specs/dd set/ebelt set. So no, imo latios its still the better choice.
So I'mma play devil's advocate here and say that Latios and Latias are both equally effective in the current metagame.

Tyranitar makes Latios and Latias shit themselves in equal proportions, so I don't know why it was even mentioned. Latios 2HKO's with Surf, but if his opponent is smart (that is to say, he didn't switch his Tyranitar directly in on Latios), he get's OHKO'd right back by Crunch and OHKO'd again if he switches out and gets hit by Pursuit. And Latios can only 2HKO if he has Specs; meanwhile, if he's running Scarf (which I believe is his more popular set, but the moveset link died so I can't be sure), he can only 3HKO, so Tyranitar finishes him off anyway. So yeah, Tyranitar is a full-stop to both of the Lati twins most of the time.

What makes Latias equally as effective as her brother is she's able to make the best out of her interesting defensive typing, allowing her to tackle some of the metagame's biggest threats, like Keldeo and, to an extent, Breloom. Latias is also an excellent addition to sun teams, who greatly appreciate her ability to switch in to the hardest-hitting rain abusers with relative ease and recover off the damage.

tl;dr, Latios has power and Latias has bulk, and the metagame has room for both of them. They are equal in the current metagame.
 
Latias and latios should switch places and kyurem-b should be Top A-rank.
Latias is just more effective than latios in the current metagame. Her better bulk allows her to tank attacks from keldeo, terrakion etc, which latios cannot do. Because of her better bulk, latias's life orb set is much more effective. This limits latios to choice sets.

I'll explain kyurem-b later.
While I like Latias better, Latio's choice scarf set makes the already strong pokemon a force to be reckoned with.

So I'mma play devil's advocate here and say that Latios and Latias are both equally effective in the current metagame.

Tyranitar makes Latios and Latias shit themselves in equal proportions, so I don't know why it was even mentioned. Latios 2HKO's with Surf, but if his opponent is smart (that is to say, he didn't switch his Tyranitar directly in on Latios), he get's OHKO'd right back by Crunch and OHKO'd again if he switches out and gets hit by Pursuit. And Latios can only 2HKO if he has Specs; meanwhile, if he's running Scarf (which I believe is his more popular set, but the moveset link died so I can't be sure), he can only 3HKO, so Tyranitar finishes him off anyway. So yeah, Tyranitar is a full-stop to both of the Lati twins most of the time.

What makes Latias equally as effective as her brother is she's able to make the best out of her interesting defensive typing, allowing her to tackle some of the metagame's biggest threats, like Keldeo and, to an extent, Breloom. Latias is also an excellent addition to sun teams, who greatly appreciate her ability to switch in to the hardest-hitting rain abusers with relative ease and recover off the damage.

tl;dr, Latios has power and Latias has bulk, and the metagame has room for both of them. They are equal in the current metagame.
I'd agree more with this statement. Latias has great bulk, but misses out on crucial KO's. Latios has amazing special attack, but is more easily KO'd. I could go into some calcs backing this up, but I feel its pretty simple and doesn't need too much explanation, as it's easily seen in their stats. This is why i feel that they are equally effective, although t-tar is a problem for Lati@s
 
I'd like to motion Metagross being moved up to B- or B from C. Firstly, in what way is Metagross outclassed? Meteor Mash is an amazing STAB and the psychic typing helps deal with fighting types. With only two weaknesses, Metagross is quite good.
It's pseudo-legendary and can be quite hard to face down.
Most of the Pokemon on the C list could be moved down to UU(if not already there) without an issue.
However, Metagross would sweep the tier if moved down because of a sky-rocketing Attack Stat, great bulk, etc.
Metagross is also one pokemon that keeps the OU Trick Room alive simply because of the fearsome sweeper it becomes under Trick Room.
Metagross is a hard counter to a lot of the Dragons in today's metagame and as such must be AT LEAST B- if no B
 
I'd like to motion Metagross being moved up to B- or B from C. Firstly, in what way is Metagross outclassed? Meteor Mash is an amazing STAB and the psychic typing helps deal with fighting types. With only two weaknesses, Metagross is quite good.
It's pseudo-legendary and can be quite hard to face down.
Most of the Pokemon on the C list could be moved down to UU(if not already there) without an issue.
However, Metagross would sweep the tier if moved down because of a sky-rocketing Attack Stat, great bulk, etc.
Metagross is also one pokemon that keeps the OU Trick Room alive simply because of the fearsome sweeper it becomes under Trick Room.
Metagross is a hard counter to a lot of the Dragons in today's metagame and as such must be AT LEAST B- if no B
Steel is a TERRIBLE STAB. Scizor makes it work thanks to Technician and priority and Jirachi makes it work because of Serene Grace. Except as a physical Rock Polish/Agility Sweeper, Jirachi outclasses Metagross in every facet as a Steel/Psychic, and as a Rock Polish/Agility sweeper, Metagross is among the worst in OU.

This literally has no impact on ranking him.

Neither does this. I don't even know what you're talking about here.

Metagross has excellent attack, but he's held back by poor HP and poor Speed. He has marginally better physical bulk than Jirachi, who has infinitely more utility as a defensive Pokemon.

Trick Room is dead as a team archetype, and the only thing keeping it from being a dead playstyle altogether is Trick Room Reuniclus, not Metagross.

Metagross is only a very shaky counter to Dragons, thanks to weaknesses to Fire and Ground when facing down physical Dragons and mediocre special bulk when facing special Dragons (except Hydreigon who gets both Earth Power and Fire Blast so Metagross is doubly fucked).

Keep him C.
 
What niche does Metagross have other Steels as a Dragon check? Skarmory is immune to Ground, Heatran is immune to Fire, Ferrothorn is neutral to Ground plus can migrate its Fire weakness in Rain (and its Water resistance means its not as bothered by increased Water coverage as other Steels).
 
Yeah but they wont exactly like taking a Drizzle Boosted Hydro Pump/Aqua Tail from a Dragon, where as Ferrothorn isn't that bothered as much as Other Steels are due its Grass typing.
 

Lavos

Banned deucer.
metagross really has no good reason to move up to b-rank now, there's been no noticeable shifts in metagame trends etc. to warrant a change of positioning. besides, metagross only fills a very small niche role in ou of that of a pokemon that can defensively pursuit-trap latios/latias and maintain an offensive priority role at the same time. it's still 2hkod by specs or lo latios surf though (unless you really heavily invest in hp and sdef which is kind of a waste of metagross imo) which makes it not so useful if one of its main roles is to pursuit trap. i suppose a trick cb/scarf set could work as well but in bw2 with the fast paced meta and plethora of choiced pokes there's not a ton of impact trick is going to have unless you're facing stall. i guess my main point is that metagross is outclassed in every regard by one thing or another; scizor is better offensively, jirachi and skarmory are better defensively, etc. so it's not really worth using right now.

edit: @chou wrong its niche is my EMERALD BATTLE FRONTIER TEAM
 

Punchshroom

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None of the pseudo legends have dropped into UU since gen III (where there were more than 2 pseudo-legends and Dragon-types actually had workable STAB), so Metagross breaking this trend is probably something Metagross-lovers or trend-abiders won't stand by.
 
Petitioning to move Heracross from C to B-. Sure, it's speed is a letdown, but that's why I'm petitioning for B and not S. With Guts, it makes a great status absorber (and with Sleep Talk, a great Breloom counter) and with Moxie it can sweep unprepared teams. It's Choice Band set fires holes into everything with its two great STAB attacks, and its Choice Scarf is a great revenge killer for the likes of Choice Band Terrakion. Pairing it with Tyranitar can remove some of its most prominent threats (Jellicent, Gengar) and it has decent bulk to boot. I just think it deserves to be in a higher rank than shit like Durant and Froslass.
 
I completely agree with moving heraboss up to Low B-rank. Here's the reasoning I've previously made.


NOMINATING HERACROSS FOR LOW B-RANK

Despite its low base 85 speed, heracross has many unique assets that can make him low b-rank. While the popular Choice Scarf set is C-Rank material, Choice band heracross is quite amazing and deserves low B-Rank. Because most people are going to expect heracross to be scarfed, the switch out their life orb terrakion and choice specs keldeo into a more reliable check (such as jellicent). Thanks to the power boost that the choice band provides, heracross has the power to 2HKO jellicent with night slash. Furthermore, thanks to megahorn, latias and slowbro cannot just swith in, and while heracross does have dissapointing speed, it is still enough to outpace magnezone, heatran and tyranitar, allowing heracross to OHKO them with CC. Heracross's power earns him a spot in low B-Rank.​
(BTW, Durant and froslass aren't S***)

Also, Metagross should stay In C-Rank for the many reasons given.
 

Meru

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I feel like you already posted that. Hera is much too slow in this meta. Nothing has changed for the dude except resisting both of the most powerful moves of the new biggest threat (Landorus). Doesn't mean he's C-rank, as his speed hasn't stopped plaguing him. Power is great and all, but OU consistently shows a trend that Speed is much more important.
 

Chou Toshio

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I dunno... B was a pretty legitimate rank, but B- really isn't. Before the +/- break, I would have said that all B pokes are basically staples of OU even if they aren't the stars of it-- Heracross would have ZERO shot at making the cut.

However Roserade, Weavile, and Wobb clearly do not fit the word "staple" at all.

Heracross might actually fit on the same level as them-- having a legitimate but very small niche based on anti-metagame use.

Still, all four of them feel more like C+ than B- in my mind-- Roserade being the best of them; but let's face it-- even with everything Rosy's got going for it, you could hardly call it an OU staple.
 
I don't think it's speed is a problem, since both Gyarados and Dragonite are slower and both function similarly. I guess they have ways around their speed (Dragon Dance and Extremespeed), but Heracross makes up for this with more power in Swords Dance and Guts. It has a great offensive movepool, meaning that nothing can really switch in to it with its coverage. I just think it C is unnecessarily harsh, as it is infinitely better than the likes of Scrafty.
 

Asek

Banned deucer.
Heracross struggles to find its place on many teams due to the sheer amount of other fighting types you find in OU that compete for its spot in a team. There isn't many sets that heracross can run in OU that another pokemon can't do better most of the time. In the current metagame I think that heracross is too slow and has far too much competition to be put up to B-, sorry but the meta is simply too harsh for it
EDIT: gyara and dnite are both set up sweepers I don't see how they function similarly to heracross who usually tries to Scarf Moxie snowball to clean up teams
 

Chou Toshio

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^Ah, that's something I didn't think of. While none of the B- Pokemon are frequently seen in OU, all of them are completely unique in their function. There are no other Pokemon that can do similar to what they do. Heracross is obviously facing a lot of competition-- from faster fighting types, and from Scizor.
 
Petitioning to move Zapdos to B. Probably the best SF Landorus check, as it can roost of any damage that HP Ice does, whilst PP stalling it and causing Life Orb damage. It's practically a staple in stall teams just because of its ability to stop it. This alone can justify it being B-, but I think B is more appropriate. It's also a great rain counter, and works well against sun, being able to tank a hit from Venusaur and KO back with Heat Wave. I think B is a good ranking for something that can beat rain, sun and Landorus all on its own.
 
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