Other Weather Nerf

[superstar]

In Gen 6, a Pokémon with the ability Drizzle, Drought, Sand Stream, or Snow Warning will produce the same effect as if it had used it's weather inducing move as it switched in. This means that after the switch-in, the weather effect will only last five turns, or eight if the weather inducer holds Damp Rock/Heat Rock etc.

Possible Effects on Metagame:
-This will make it much easier to deal with speed-boosting sweepers. It is much more difficult to sweep with Kingdra and co when it only has four turns to do anything. Venusaur can now be stalled out, and only has three turns to sweep after using Growth. Excadrill is in a similar boat with Swords Dance, and Landorus will not appreciate it's power constantly having to be renewed.

-Secondary weather abilities and effects such a Dry Skin, Rain Dish, Hydration (yay Manaphy!), Ferrothorn's loss of its 4x fire weakness, Hurricane/Thunder, the uselessness of Fire sweepers in rain, and the power of fire/water sweepers in their weather will be more or less defunct, especially the defensive abilities, which will rely on constantly switching in the Drizzle user.

-Weather wars will be much more interesting. One can see a metagame where non-weather teams try to kill/trap the weather inducer as quickly as possible, while weather dependent teams must keep their inducer alive for as long as possible. Sun in particular can no longer use the powerful "sac Ninetales and trap with Dugtrio" strategy on opposing weather mons.

-We might see some support mons running Rain Dance and Sunny Day, or maybe even Sandstorm.

Altogether, it looks like GameFreak answered the prayers of many Gen 5 players and gave a heavy nerf to weather. How prominent will weather be in the new meta?

 

[Wizarus]

Stall rejoice. Protect stall the turns out, and set up (Toxic)Spikes to punish them for keeping weather up. Weather offense took a hit, you will now have to build your team to be alot more balanced. I can see Abomasnow not seeing OU at all, Ninetales probably right behind it. Politoed has just enough tools to survive, and Hippo depends entirely on what it can wall. Tyranitar isn't going anywhere, of course.

 

[Legitimate Username]

The point of weather abuse is back to what it should be. At the cost of a turn of setup, you get an advantage in the battle for the next 5-8 turns. Obviously, this is a massive improvement to battle quality. Being forced to keep your weather setters alive while working as hard as possible to not waste any turns of the sun shining or rain falling requires a lot more skill than simply trying to kill Politoed or Ninetales first so you're at a permanent advantage for the rest of the game. Since I was a Trick Room player back in BW2, I know that this type of game is a lot more exciting than the previous era of weather wars. You need to make constant effort throughout the battle to ensure that you're playing in the ideal battle conditions, and that you don't waste any time when you are.

I'm also seeing the 8 turn weather rocks being a lot more reliable against weatherless than automatic weather setters, but being able to change it upon switch in at any time is still a considerable advantage against opposing weather teams. Politoed and Ninetales will drop but they may still see decent use, although it's overwhelmingly likely that Tyranitar and Abomasnow will remain/become common thanks to their new Mega formes.

 

[Blue_Tornado]

Altogether, it looks like GameFreak answered the prayers of many Gen 4 players and gave a heavy nerf to weather.

FTFY.

The only fun part about running a weather team before gen 5 was the timer factor. Both using and facing one, I mean.

 

[Forsety]

I haven't seen this mentioned in this thread but it NEEDS to be said in a discussion about weather.

Weather can not be renewed till it has finished or is replaced by another weather, in other words if you try bring in Drizzle whilst there is still 1 turn of Rain left it will fail meaning weather teams will also have to time switches to keep weather going. Or in the case of Sun/Hail/Sand switch in the turn before your weather ends and Mega Evo on the next turn to re-activate it with no drops.

 

[Seth Vilo]

I'm really happy about this for one reason in particular. A lot of the Pokemon I love to use happen to have good synergy with, say, Tyranitar, but absolutely hate the added residual damage sand brings. With this new limited effect, I can utilize what Tyranitar does best to support the team, then wait till the weather subsides to send out Keldeo to clean up with no sand cutting at its health and making it priority-vulnerable (just to apply it to the Tryanitar/Keldeo core from gen V).

 

[Mattman324]

The point of weather abuse is back to what it should be. At the cost of a turn of setup, you get an advantage in the battle for the next 5-8 turns. Obviously, this is a massive improvement to battle quality. Being forced to keep your weather setters alive while working as hard as possible to not waste any turns of the sun shining or rain falling requires a lot more skill than simply trying to kill Politoed or Ninetales first so you're at a permanent advantage for the rest of the game. Since I was a Trick Room player back in BW2, I know that this type of game is a lot more exciting than the previous era of weather wars. You need to make constant effort throughout the battle to ensure that you're playing in the ideal battle conditions, and that you don't waste any time when you are.

Yep. The game is a lot trickier for weather and a lot less tricky for nonweather in terms of strategy, and I think that helps because in B2W2 weather RULED. Losing Stallrein/Stallgice is a niggling side effect (and is more annoying for remembering how much Hail needs a buff) compared to the MASSIVE nerfs Sand and Rain needed. Now you can't kill a tier with Excadrill, destroy every team with a well built rain team.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

I think especially in the lower tiers it'll be more difficult. The power gap between Ninetales/Politoed and the rest of OU was quite big (and I assume that will stay the case in Gen VI), but it's even bigger in lower tiers when you're talking Snover, Vulpix, etc. In the past you'd use these Pokemon as death fodder after you've made the most of them, but now you can't necessarily, so you've got to try to keep an extremely weak Pokemon alive. Also, in terms of hold items for those weaker Pokemon, you've got to decide if it's worth sacrificing an extra 3 turns of weather for Focus Sash/Eviolite/Leftovers, etc.

 

[mrglass]

It will be interesting to see if we get a Drizzle mega that uses rain like Megazard Y does. The nerf basically means that pokes that can set autoweather for themselves will be much more compatible with non weather based teams and other weather based teams. It's not completely unfeasible to see Megazard Y on a team with Politoed and Helioptile, with the added benefit of keeping your opponent guessing whether you have an SP or Dry Skin Helioptile.

 

[X5Dragon]

Well for one I can see the shift towards bulky sets/mons and predictability. For example Hippodon might suprass TTar as the main Sand inducer just for his bulk, he will almost always carry a smooth rock with him and will most likely feature Slack Off to keep him going.

Weather wars will get messy, because against a weatherless team you switch out almost immediately and don't send the inducer back until the weather is over, here it will most likely involve predictions and trappers. Over all I think the end result would be teams relying on a single weather abuser and said weather inducer might even carry his own weather inducing move to avoid sudden set backs. I mean Rain Dance Kingdra is already a thing, a huge one at that. Sand Stream Exca might make an excellent LGS, etc.

Don't count out weather teams yet, remember 8 turns is like 75% of a typical weatherless HO match, 2 switch ins to sustain weather would be more than enough.

 

[Soul Fly]

^people are worried about rainstall, sandstall and hailstall (poor hail) getting wiped off the face of the the meta.

 

[WashedLaundry]

Welp, there goes my Rain Stall team.

Honestly, given the frustrations that were aired out, this was the only solution to make everyone happy. I liked weather for its defensive aspects, such as the residual damage from sand or the loss of strength on fire-type moves, but something had to give because it was simply broken and completely dominating the meta. I'll miss some of the faces that permaweather brought to OU, like Venusaur or Toxicroak, but I think that's a tradeoff that had to be made in favor of making the metagame more diverse and ultimately balanced.

EDIT: Honestly, by the end of the meta, I see weather becoming what Trick Room was in Gen 5. It'll be around sometimes, people will make excellent use of it, but ultimately it'll just become a gimmick.

 

[X5Dragon]

^people are worried about rainstall, sandstall and hailstall (poor hail) getting wiped off the face of the the meta.

That's why I didn't include them in my post :3

In all seriousness though Weather Stall should be divided to Stalling with passive damage (evasive abilities are banned) or Stalling with healing abilities and type nerfs (Sun, Rain)

For the first weathers with double inducers and maybe a 3 with a weather inducing move might keep it alive. TTar can be turned into a SpD tank and Hippo a physical one, Exca can forgo SD and have Sand Storm. Hail has now 2 inducers so it could work in OU or in UU. Heck, you can even go gimmicky and have your auto weather inducer with the relevant rock carry a weather inducer move.

The other type is gonna be much harder to pull off seeing how entire pokemon would be useless with their abilities. They might remedy that with pranksters who are now available...

 

[Icy_eagle]

Welp, there goes my Rain Stall team.

Honestly, given the frustrations that were aired out, this was the only solution to make everyone happy. I liked weather for its defensive aspects, such as the residual damage from sand or the loss of strength on fire-type moves, but something had to give because it was simply broken and completely dominating the meta. I'll miss some of the faces that permaweather brought to OU, like Venusaur or Toxicroak, but I think that's a tradeoff that had to be made in favor of making the metagame more diverse and ultimately balanced.

EDIT: Honestly, by the end of the meta, I see weather becoming what Trick Room was in Gen 5. It'll be around sometimes, people will make excellent use of it, but ultimately it'll just become a gimmick.

Except there's no auto trick room inducer, and trick room doesn't affect anything besides speed. Not comparable at all really

 

[Soul Fly]

Wait did Exca get an MEvo or something? how does it get Sand Stream? or do you mean Sandstorm?

Plus maintaining multiple inducers in the same team means compounding weaknesses, which is absolutely counterproductive to stall, which relies on defensive synergy.

Plus only Sand has 2 natural inducers, sun has to make do with one and an MEvo that is 4x rocks weak and rain sadly needs to rely completely on Rain Dance outside Toed.

And hai...... well lol.

 

[X5Dragon]

Meant Storm <_<

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Stall teams are going to be incredible this generation. One of the biggest factors for this is the weather nerf. No longer will Tentacruel worry about Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump, or having a Venusaur in sunlight easily sweep your weatherless team. This for me is a huge plus. I can still see Swift Swimmers + Rain being pretty viable, as I'm pretty sure they won't be a banned combo anymore. Ninetales and Politoed will not see nearly as much usage as they used to, but I think Specs Politoed can still be pretty legit.

As for Hippowdon and Tyranitar, they're still going to be used regardless of the nerf to weather, mainly because they are just such good Pokemon even with the nerf to weather. Hippowdon is still bulky as hell, and Tyranitar's SpDef goes through the roof. I doubt we're going to see any weather based teams this gen though, apart from Swift Swim + Rain Dance / Drizzle.

 

[WashedLaundry]

Except there's no auto trick room inducer, and trick room doesn't affect anything besides speed. Not comparable at all really

I was talking moreso in practice rather than in a straight comparison. They're still both field effects that have a limit on their duration that require something to set it up in order to be effective. Just because Trick Room doesn't have an auto inducer or rock doesn't make it that different from Rain or Sand. Teams still have to find Pokemon that can set it up and keep it up for their advantage.

Stall teams are going to be incredible this generation. One of the biggest factors for this is the weather nerf. No longer will Tentacruel worry about Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump, or having a Venusaur in sunlight easily sweep your weatherless team. This for me is a huge plus. I can still see Swift Swimmers + Rain being pretty viable, as I'm pretty sure they won't be a banned combo anymore. Ninetales and Politoed will not see nearly as much usage as they used to, but I think Specs Politoed can still be pretty legit.

As for Hippowdon and Tyranitar, they're still going to be used regardless of the nerf to weather, mainly because they are just such good Pokemon even with the nerf to weather. Hippowdon is still bulky as hell, and Tyranitar's SpDef goes through the roof. I doubt we're going to see any weather based teams this gen though, apart from Swift Swim + Rain Dance / Drizzle.

This idea is what made me come around to the weather nerf in the long run. I didn't want to give up my weather stall teams but by giving them up, I get to use stall more practically due to the loss of power for things like weather offense.

 

[ChaosAkita]

It's kind of sad to see some strategies go, but I think it's for the best that weather isn't the most dominant mechanic like it was in Gen V.

 

[norelationstojfk]

The weather thing is a lot of the reason why I really didn't participate much in Generation 5 battles. If you tried to run something other than weather, everyone else running weather basically got their way with the battle field and there was nothing I could do about it. I didn't always lose to weather teams like this, but it was still frustrating. It was "either run weather or deal with it". Now, there's a way for people who don't want to include Politoed or Tyranitar on their team to beat out the weather and regain true field advantage.

 

[Typhlito]

yea Im guessing sand would be the most used weather since unlike the other weathers (unless charizard y counts) theres 2 good sand streamers. You would have both on team. Your prob gonna keeps sand going forever if their well played. But is the amount of turns weather is up restarted every time its sent out or do you have to wait for the weather to go away before bringing it back up?

 

[Manaphy]

This will certainly have a pretty big effect in OU as powerful weather abusers such as Kingdra, Manaphy, and Excadrill will now be much more manageable. It won't change as much in Ubers however, as Kyogre can still abuse it's absurdly powerful Water Spouts and Tyranitar will still get it's Special Defense boost. It sucks for Sun teams however as Groudon gets little benefit to Sun, and I expect the Support Groudon/Ho-Oh/magic bounce or RS team style to have a much harder time. The main thing in Ubers is that Kabutops/Excadrill cannot abuse thier weather abilities on their respective weathers anymore, and this in turn makes Rapid Spinning harder in general.

Just wondering, is it confirmed that Weather Rocks boost the duration of these abilities?

 

[SoulMuse]

Hm, I can see all weather teams carrying at weather rock mon to back up their weather inducer now, especially sun. And sweet, Excadrill can finally come down to OU again...I hope.

Actually, it might be possible that weather teams to totally forgo a weather inducer all together, especially sun teams, and simply run a couple of weather setters with their respective weather move.

 

[Typhlito]

really hope excadrill goes ou. been wanting to use it outside of ubers ever since it came out. But speaking of sand, due to the nerf, thats really going to affect stoutland and sandslash's usage since both are only viable under sand

 

[Chou Toshio]

This will certainly have a pretty big effect in OU as powerful weather abusers such as Kingdra, Manaphy, and Excadrill will now be much more manageable. It won't change as much in Ubers however, as Kyogre can still abuse it's absurdly powerful Water Spouts and Tyranitar will still get it's Special Defense boost. It sucks for Sun teams however as Groudon gets little benefit to Sun, and I expect the Support Groudon/Ho-Oh/magic bounce or RS team style to have a much harder time. The main thing in Ubers is that Kabutops/Excadrill cannot abuse thier weather abilities on their respective weathers anymore, and this in turn makes Rapid Spinning harder in general.

Just wondering, is it confirmed that Weather Rocks boost the duration of these abilities?

This was my first immediate thought as well. With weather reduced to a mere 5-8 turns, many Pokemon that were intolerable in OU previously now may have a much easier chance at staying OU. Kingdra, Manaphy, Excadrill-- now there's no excuse in calling any of these Pokemon unmanageable. Good thing too, because it looks like we'll really need another good spinner this Gen, and Excadrill should do the job admirably.

As an offensive player, I have to say I am pretty thrilled at the death of Rain Stall. It's going to make things a lot easier to bring the appropriate mons to break the opponent's team (in particular, Toxicroak nerf is huge thinking about Keldeo and others).

TTar being able to do its thing while stealing away stall pokemon's leftovers, and still leaving a clear sky for other non-immune teammates to sweep either-- this makes TTar a much more abusable tool for offense; which has proven it doesn't need lasting sand to abuse, but mostly just wants the SpD boost for TTar as it takes down enemies with Pursuit. With Surf/hydro pump nerfed, it'll be a whole lot easier.