Pokémon Banette

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It does make sense - turn order is decided before MegaEvolution happens.
I suppose a Focus Sash*, Taunt then Destiny Bond set would work then? If so, it's still a waste of a mega evolution and pokémon.

*I'm retarded
 
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Arcticblast

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I suppose a Focus Sash, Taunt then Destiny Bond set would work then? If so, it's still a waste of a mega evolution and pokémon.
Focus Sash on a MegaEvolution what

It's a shame MegaBanette needs Attack investment to OHKO MegaGengar though. Sucker Punch from max+ MegaBanette is a clean OHKO, and with Prankster Taunt it doesn't have to worry about the unreliability of Sucker Punch after MegaEvolution.
 
Focus Sash on a MegaEvolution what

It's a shame MegaBanette needs Attack investment to OHKO MegaGengar though. Sucker Punch from max+ MegaBanette is a clean OHKO, and with Prankster Taunt it doesn't have to worry about the unreliability of Sucker Punch after MegaEvolution.
Sorry, this Mega stuff is hard to get used to. Yeah, I guess Meganette's usefulness wears thin in comparison to other mega's and checks, but he's still a good check to consider if you need one.
 
It does make sense - turn order is decided before MegaEvolution happens.
Similar thing happens in Doubles in Gen 5 too your partner doesn't suddenly get the jump on a paralyzed opponent on the turn you threw out a priority T-Wave.

Also I beseech all sympathetic ears, as a long suffering person whose favourite is the Shuppet family line I'm finding a incredibly hard to come up with even a biased half assed reason why I'd use this as my Mega. The suffering of ten thousand forgotten Shuppet's are now raging at Trollfreak for boosting Banette's s.atk and speed instead of adding them further into defenses or widening it's movepool, or maybe adding a extra typing...

So drama aside...what can Banette do if it's Prankster can't even activate on the first turn and it still can't take a hit? Surely priority Destiny Bond can't be the only thing? It's sole purpose is to commit suicide? I mean if I was the opponent I'd probably not care much for D-Bond if it meant getting rid of my opponent's mega pronto...
 
Priority Destiny Bond obviously has gigantic implications, as it can save you from many clutch situations by killing a rampaging set up sweeper. You could look at Balanced Hackmons as evidence for how good priority Destiny Bond can be, especially in tandem with Taunt.

In addition, Mega Banette would also be able to cripple stuff will Will-o-Wisp (or Thunder Wave if you choose to use that), and be a huge pain for defensive teams lacking Heatran between WoW and Taunt.

That said, the fact that Prankster does not activate in the first turn is very crippling for Mega Banette. One could use Protect, Shadow Sneak, or Sucker Punch over Shadow Claw / Phantom Force as a means of remedying this. Protect allows you to get a guaranteed mega evolution, which is extremely useful for Mega Banette, as it is much less good at saving you from "clutch" situations without it. In addition, you can afford to use 4 non attacking moves because your Taunt outspeeds everything else, and it means you can distribute EVs into defenses without losing any Attack. However, Protect has little use besides safely activating mega evolution, it can be seen as a waste of the awesome base Attack Banette has (although Banette can not make particularly good use out of it anyways), and using Protect means you're prone to the opponent using Substitute or whatever when you Protect. Sucker Punch only allows you to have a safe evolution if you can actually kill the opponent, and is also prone to Substitute, but it has more utility outside of safely activating mega evolution. Shadow Sneak is just a weaker Sucker Punch that is slightly more reliable and hits certain Pokemon harder.

Personally, this is how I value the 3 different options: Sucker Punch > Protect > Shadow Sneak. I'm not sure if I would use Protect or Shadow Sneak over the strong STAB move, but I would definitely try Sucker Punch over them.
 
Its base speed is 75, so T-wave would help give it the speed advantage in many cases. I was considering some sort of gimmicky Tanky Banette with Calm Mind + WoW to cripple physical and special attacker's attempts to kill it, and then pain split your health back up... but it'd never have the time to set that up and it'd be better used on a special attacker...

Uh.... yeah. I dunno. I like this guy's design but this is hard to make work. Priority D-Bond is really good though guys. It's a free kill. It's just imperative that you evolve it and it survives so it gets its ability to allow it to get the garunteed kill. Think about it.
 
Like I said, looking like a fantastic situational check, but it's just really not worth using unless your teams one and only weakness is Megengar, or something similar, which is incredibly unlikely considering that you'd only have 5 pokémon so far, and an otherwise perfect team's one weakness to be a revenge killer? Not likely. Plus that team would probably just benefit more from a bulkier mega evolution, eg. Megarchomp
 
Like I said, looking like a fantastic situational check, but it's just really not worth using unless your teams one and only weakness is Megengar, or something similar, which is incredibly unlikely considering that you'd only have 5 pokémon so far, and an otherwise perfect team's one weakness to be a revenge killer? Not likely. Plus that team would probably just benefit more from a bulkier mega evolution, eg. Megarchomp
Every thread keeps saying Mega Gengar and 1 or 2 other chocies is a better choice. If there's only going to be 2-5 megas worth using and we can only have one our team, this could get old reeeeal fast. ._.
 
Every thread keeps saying Mega Gengar and 1 or 2 other chocies is a better choice. If there's only going to be 2-5 megas worth using and we can only have one our team, this could get old reeeeal fast. ._.
I'm not saying Megengar is a better choice as a mega evo or even as a pokémon, but I can see it being one of the most overused/overrated mega evolution's for a while. It's just an amazing revenge killer, or potential sweeper. Shofu demonstrates this in his recent online X and Y battles, it wrecks. I think if your team needed a bulky pokémon that could do some harassing, more often than not Garchomp or Tyranitar are going to be more reliable choices than Meganette. I do agree with you though, seeing as there is only space for one mega, it's looking like the 2-5 best offensive mons are gonna be used most.
 

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A major advantage is Mega Banette not as fucked hard by Steel-types. Remember Ghost is neutral on Steel now.

No Memento sucks though. So much potential there.

It looks solid for lower tiers and has some interesting niches in OU. I'm certainly not disappointed by its existence.
 
Taunt / Thunder Wave / Phantom Force / Sucker Punch is probably gonna be the norm imo. I mean, Thunder Wave is good to use Phantom Force without being worried of being outsped and killed off, while Tanut + Sucker Punch is great. And just noticed Thunder on the main set lmao, why would you use Thunder? DAT 93 SPECIAL ATTACK THO. Way overshadowed by its base 165. Not worth it imo.
 
Personally, this is how I value the 3 different options: Sucker Punch > Protect > Shadow Sneak. I'm not sure if I would use Protect or Shadow Sneak over the strong STAB move, but I would definitely try Sucker Punch over them.
I take issue with Sucker Punch > Shadow Sneak, it's 20 more BP but far less reliable and with only 5PP with more resists and for me reliability is more important, Protect is iffy as well because whilst it gets the job done Banette can't afford to give up a moveslot to it. It almost seems to me that the usefulness of Banette will be dictated by what we can decide is the best opening move for it without being too specialized.

That said, the fact that Prankster does not activate in the first turn is very crippling for Mega Banette. One could use Protect, Shadow Sneak, or Sucker Punch over Shadow Claw / Phantom Force as a means of remedying this.
Although on the Phantom Force/Destiny Bond side of things does Destiny Bond also cover the turn Phantom Force connects with since it's one move spread over two turns? If it does then I'd agree with Phantom Force as it's main STAB otherwise it sounds terrible due to the two turns telegraphing the blow. I haven't had a chance to try it out myself in game so I don't know if the Destiny Bond effect could extend that long. We still have the problem however Banette has no means of harming a Normal type at all outside of Gunk Shot which at least is viable now it's accuracy was buffed.

In addition, you can afford to use 4 non attacking moves because your Taunt outspeeds everything else, and it means you can distribute EVs into defenses without losing any Attack.
Thundurus...how could you forget Thundurus that asshole basically rules VGC/Doubles and ruled OU before his ban.....not to mention Whimsicott's Taunt. Though the latter has less reason to be trying to Taunt Banette.

Though all this talk has gotten me thinking, does anyone think there is any room for a Banette priority Spite/Disable set to somehow work? Maybe also worth checking if Banette can get Pain Split through breeding.
 
Protect on the mega set to activate prankster seems like a good way to not get killed first turn.

With his low hp and prankster, sub+pain split+destiny bond comes to mind immediatly, with a stabbed ghost move for the last slot, that sounds really funny.
 
This is the most surprising of the mega evolutions. It still lacks a good movepool, but prankster Destiny Bond? It's like bringing back Explosion's usefulness.
 
Hello there! First post incoming.
Now, I will preface by saying that I've never been much of a competitive battler. however, all the new changes and additions with gen VI has me very intrigued. As someone that's always liked banette despite his failings, the introduction of his mega evolution is something I've been pouring my brain over.

My thoughts:
Megabanette has OU potential, the cornerstone of which being the fact that it can counter megagengar, which, barring bans, has a very good chance of being one of the more used megas. With high attack and a stab, SE priority move, it is perfectly poised to hit gengar's weakspots, who lacks both strong defenses and priority of it's own. This gengar lock is further cemented by banette's overlooked access to pursuit, which can be included with destiny bond through breeding. Though I lack the knowledge to do straight calculations, and will be requesting here, it seems highly likely that megabanette *can* OHKO on gengar, shutting the shadow pokemon down before becoming megagengar. I acknowledge there are other cases to look at where things aren't so clean, and will be making requests following this.

Another key point, as noted earlier in this thread, is priority destiny bond. This is something which is very powerful, as it can ensure banette will at least trade evenly, up to and including with the opponent's mega. banette's forth move is most likely best served with your choice of priority status, or taunt, depending on your team/meta needs.

Nature: Jolly/Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
Hold: Banettite
Moveset:
-Shadow Sneak
-Pursuit
-Destiny Bond
-Will-O-Wisp/Thunder Wave/Taunt

More thoughts
1) The EV SPREAD:
-While slightly counter-intuitive, the purpose of this set is due to the fact that banette speed-ties with scizor. For this set, banette's key weakness is enemy priority, and bullet punch is one of the main ones to contend with. If meta changes and speedy scizor fades out, then evs might see adjustment, as this is a set that would otherwise be able to ignore speed thanks to prankster+priority. Otherwise, you probably still the need the speed.

2) shadow sneak seems like a staple move for banette. Reliable, priority stab, which allows you to turn on your mega evo on command.
-With this first point, I would like to request some damage calculations of Megabanette shadow sneak vs:
--Gengar (result is most likely obvious, but for the sake of not taking anything for granted)
--Megagengar (For circumstances where Megabanette is coming in after megagengar gets off the ground)
--Starmie (constant OU favorite. Megabanette has type advantage, and star doesn't have priority, but Banette most likely can't survive starmie's special hits. does spinblock still however)
--Scizor (Bullet punch is going to be the most played priority move that can hit banette, and Scizor is the most played user of bullet punch. Scizor has lost ghost resistance, so while still bulky, it will take more damage. question is: how much?)
--Azumarill (The other main priority move that can hit Banette, with the pokemon that will be most likely to use it. I don't see this one being as big of a deal due to WoW however)

If there are any other major ones worth noting, feel free to contribute!

3) Pursuit exists as part of the one-two punch with shadow sneak to drop gengar. Prediction is required, yes, but it's not a bad move in general to hit switches with megabanette's high attack and steel no longer resisting dark. gives you an option for hitting normal types as well. Also has excellent synergy with destiny bond, not only due to causing switch pressure, but can allow you better control over when you take your turn, manipulating how long your bond lasts.
-Any damage calcs that anyone would be interested in contributing with pursuit would be greatly appreciated!

4) Priority Destiny Bond via prankster is very nasty. it's habit of forcing switches combos well with pursuit, creating another nasty kind of lock for the enemy. It ensures that megabanette has a high chance of at taking at least one enemy with it, making it one of the best moves for this slot.

5) This slot is flexible for your team's needs/in light of the meta. Right now my thoughts tend towards will-o-wisp for it's chip damage and cripple on physical attackers, but paralysis can make life tough for fragile speedsters, and taunt can prevent mons from trying to set up on Megabanette.

In conclusion, Megabanette, while maybe not as flashy as some other megas, certainly has potential depending on how the meta falls into place in the future. And really, if you can use this haunted doll to cripple one of your opponent's mons, and take out either their mega or two of their mons, you can give banette a pat on the head for a job well done.

So, that's that! Thoughts and data are greatly appreciated.
 
A quick follow up. One of the major issues for megabanette at least right now that I can see is Ageislash. with two trainers of equal skill, the best megaB will be able to do is either burn or destiny bond ageislash, and if ageislash actually runs a set without priority, it may be very hard to even hook the bond.
 
From what I've heard about how turn order works, Speed changes do not take effect on the turn they happen. So in a hypothetical doubles match between Kingdra and Pikachu on one side and Deoxys-S and Bidoof on the other side, if Kingdra switches for Kyogre, Deo-S still goes before Kingdra. The same happens for Mega Evolutions that get better (or worse) Speed, or in Mega Banette's case, Prankster.
 
From what I've heard about how turn order works, Speed changes do not take effect on the turn they happen. So in a hypothetical doubles match between Kingdra and Pikachu on one side and Deoxys-S and Bidoof on the other side, if Kingdra switches for Kyogre, Deo-S still goes before Kingdra. The same happens for Mega Evolutions that get better (or worse) Speed, or in Mega Banette's case, Prankster.
That's understood. your status or destiny bond is not going to get priority on banette first turn. However, shadow sneak has priority regardless, and will set you up to go mega with priority. from there on, you have prankster turned on, and get priority on your other moves. and once you are in mega form, you stay in mega form for the rest of the match. using pursuit on a switching mon should act the same, giving you a mega evo, then hitting the retreating enemy with your 165 base attack pursuit.

This knowledge is also why the set I posted has max speed. Regular banette has the same base 65 speed as scizor, so this set outruns every one of scizor's sets besides jolly max speed scizor, at which point it's a tie. This is important because scizor runs bullet punch, and therefore has the ability to outspeed your priority if you are not prepared. However, once you have megabanette, you then directly outspeed regular scizor, and tie with max speed megascizor.
 
Looking at that superb 165 base attack stat, I can't help but feel that it's a waste not to use it. However, Prankster combined with a handful of defense boosting moves makes me think that a good Prankster-CM buffing set might just work. If only Curse didn't work the way it does on Ghosts.

Set - Pranksterbuff sweeper

Nature: Calm/Bold/Modest
EVs: 252 Def/252 Sp. Def/4Sp. Atk
Hold: Banettite
Moveset:
Cotton Guard / Will-O-Wisp
Calm Mind
Pain Split
Shadow Ball

EV spread is to make the most out of Banette's low health stat and max out the gains you get out of Pain Split. As for which Nature to go with, I reckon that the pecking order is the same order that I've slashed them - You gain the smallest amount of boosting headway on the sp. def side, so that probably needs bolstering the most, however, its base defense is lower, so Bold might be more your bag. If you're feeling brave, you can go for the ballsy +sp. atk.

Your strategy is as follows: you mega-evolve, and start grabbing boosts based on whatever threat is in front of you at the time - CM for special attackers, and either Cotton Guard or Will-O-Wisp for physical attackers. Keep going until you can get to +6 sp. atk, and use your superb-this-gen ghost STAB to sweep the opponent's team. It works a little like prankster-bulk-up Torn-I, only it boosts both of its defenses. Prankster allows you to go first with your boost moves, as well as with Pain Split, so if the situation pans out right you should have little trouble keeping Banette alive, or at least as alive as a ghost can be. Cotton Guard gives you a +3 to defense, and can be used twice to make Banette, crits aside, pretty much invincible from the physical side, so it would be a superior option over will-o-wisp most of the time, but it's worth noting that relying on mono-ghost for attacks can leave you completely in the shit if the opponent brings along a normal type - WoW will at least let Banette do SOMETHING in this circumstance before having to abandon the field. While 64 / 75 / 83 defenses are on the borderline of what I'd consider poor even for pokes not meant to take hits, maxing out their EVs and being able to boost them with priority and use semi-reliable healing in the same manner ought to let you pull through - in theory.

Just how viable this is depends on what tier it ends up in. If it winds up in OU (I don't think this is especially likely given that 90% of other mega options look far more attractive,) and thus ends up sharing a tier with Tyranitar and other stronger, faster ghost types such as Mega-Gengar, both of whom will likely be able to trash Banette even though its defensive buffs after one turn, then I think you can write this set off entirely and just stick to Prankster Destiny Bond and support sets. However, winding up in a lower tier is potentially a double-edged sword, as the lower you go the more normal-types there are to fuck you over. The biggest caveat is that Prankster won't avail you on the first turn that you mega-evolve, and that you'll likely not benefit from your boosted defenses on the first turn that Banette Mega-evolves. If that happens, you've just got to pray that your fully invested defenses hold up.

It is worth noting that Cotton Guard was a Gen V event move, and Pain Split is only available via Gen V tutor as far as I know, so this set won't even be available until Bank lands in December. I guess you could stick with WoW instead of Cotton Guard and maybe use Rest for recovery, but I don't think that Banette will realistically be able to accrue enough defensive boosts to survive for two full turns without being able to do anything back. So, sorry if you feel I wasted your time. I kind of just desperately want Banette to be able to star in a sweeping role at least once in his miserable life. He deserves it after all the abuse he's gotten over these last three gens.
 
^that set suffers from several issues though, first being that not using your 165 attack is just making megabanette inferior to other choices, and 2nd, as pointed out above me, you don't get prankster until you've gotten 1 turn as regular banette, meaning you have to survive a round as regular banette, which is very, very risky, and is probably shooting yourself in the foot.
 
I love using Mega-Banette, it might not be the best Mega but it's a favorite of mine. While I see most here say Anti-Lead or just be a normal Prankster user, I'd rather use a more offensive set:

Banette @ Banettite
Trait: Frisk
Nature: Adamant
Ev's: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Hp
- Shadow Claw
- Sucker Punch
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp

Packing Shadow Claw as a primary STAB and not needing Shadow Sneak due to this set having Sucker Punch. Sucker Punch to smack Banette's bigger cousin, Gengar. Sub for scouting, Will-O-Wisp to get a cripple on Physical Sweepers. With it running max speed, I can bring Banette in on a slower mon (or no speed invested one,) Choice locked mon, etc., and set up a sub while Mega-Evolving. Since it doesn't get Prankster to work first turn on the evo, it's why it's best to do so. Not only that, it out-speeds Priority Shadow Sneak from Aegislash with Prankster, so I can get a burn off before going down.
 
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