With this he was uu in a generation with drizzle everywhere. Now he is fairy but drizzle will no longer be dominant, so that's not worth banning. Belly drum aqua jet is now what makes him dangerous, but not enouth for uber. If he gets hit hard on the switch he can forget belly drum, and with little hazzard other priority will kill him after belly drum. And other priority users are faster than him. So, strong: yes. Worth banning: no.
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Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread
- Thread starter Blitzenith
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After learning about majority if not all the new pokemon, the potential OU Gen 6 mon's in my opinion are:
Greninja. Why? Simple, Protean is an extraordinary ability. It effectively is Greninjas way of making up for it's lower than average defenses, but that's stretching it a bit. It's speed stat is amazing, while its special attack isn't dreadful and access to Spikes makes it quite annoying.
And Noivern simply because of it's Speed stat. Its a faster but less powerful Hydreigon. Access to U Turn with that speed stat could give it quite a wierd niche in OU. I particularly like Specs Noivern, since it is a pretty effective revenge killer.
Greninja. Why? Simple, Protean is an extraordinary ability. It effectively is Greninjas way of making up for it's lower than average defenses, but that's stretching it a bit. It's speed stat is amazing, while its special attack isn't dreadful and access to Spikes makes it quite annoying.
And Noivern simply because of it's Speed stat. Its a faster but less powerful Hydreigon. Access to U Turn with that speed stat could give it quite a wierd niche in OU. I particularly like Specs Noivern, since it is a pretty effective revenge killer.
Focus Sash Bisharp is an excellent counter to Aegislash, especially with Defiant rendering Kings Shield to a mere Protect. Focus Sash Bisharp is also amazing at killing Mega Lucario with Brick Break as well.
Azumarill- STAB priority, Huge power, and a nice new Typing, nice bulk, as well as a cool boosting move (Belly Drum) will definitely keep this thing out of UU.
Togekiss- This thing is the ultimate Garchomp counter, with its new Typing of Fairy/Flying, and it boasts a similar arsenal to Jirachi.
Talonflame- Despite the X4 weakness to SR, and mediocre stats, I feel like Talon will have a roost in OU. With defog, you can remove hazards, with Spider Web, you can slow down the opposition, and STAB +2 Brave Bird really isn't all that difficult to have done.
Rotom-W- Tons of resistances, volt switch, good bulk, and immunity to Parahax is going to make this little guy just as used as last gen.
Togekiss- This thing is the ultimate Garchomp counter, with its new Typing of Fairy/Flying, and it boasts a similar arsenal to Jirachi.
Talonflame- Despite the X4 weakness to SR, and mediocre stats, I feel like Talon will have a roost in OU. With defog, you can remove hazards, with Spider Web, you can slow down the opposition, and STAB +2 Brave Bird really isn't all that difficult to have done.
Rotom-W- Tons of resistances, volt switch, good bulk, and immunity to Parahax is going to make this little guy just as used as last gen.
Bit iffy on Talonflame and Rotom-W. Besides what you mentioned, Talonflame can't do much to rock types at all. And even at +2, you aren't going to beat more bulky mons. It's viable in OU, but not OU material IMO.
Rotom-W was used a lot last Gen mainly to counter rain teams. With rain usage going down, Rotom-w's will probably go down too.
Rotom-W was great in 4th gen too. It's going to be great now as well. I agree with you on talonflame though, priority roost after coming in on rocks is just as predictable as king shield, and in certain situations it's going to end up biting you in the ass. Allowing your opponent to capitalise on predictability and just set up in your face.
Rotom had a ghost type in Gen 4 though, one of the reasons why it was used a lot in Gen 4 was because it was a great SpinBlocker. It lost that niche in Gen 5, but gained that ability to beat rain teams. In Gen 6 though, I can't really see anything to redeem it.
You know what, I completely forgot about the ghost typing. I'm a little unsure now. But I'm using it right now and it's pretty good still, though the people I've played against aren't exactly top calibre yet..
Since there are so few electric types in OU, Rotom-w is still relevant. It has a fantastic typing (the steel resist is even more appreciated now) both defensive and offensive being only weak to grass and water electric coverage is still very good. It has acces to wow and volt switch with great all around stat distribution. It may however face some competition from its other formes. The HP nerf hurt it a lot though making the bulky chesto rest/pain split sets more reliable than choiced sets.
Outside of Tyrannitar and Terrakion how many rock types are there in OU? =S Both of which are pretty easily covered. Talonflame can just U-Turn to a counter. Given it's performance to this point and it's sheer speed and coverage I think it could definitely see OU use. Depending on how popular Stealth Rocks is.
Barbaracle would probably be OU too, and can easily setup a Shell Smash on the switch and starting to wreck the Talonflame team.
I think the main issue with Greninja is that people are looking at him all wrong. I don't see a straight up sweeper here, I see a very good end-game pokemon on our hands. He has a pretty good speed tier and ok attacking ones so while he may no be able to outright KO something at full health he can easily clean up after his team. So I think people are gonna find that the initial use of greninja wasn't the right fit but rather as a late game clean-up crew. Thats how I've been using it anyway with success.
I just think as it always has a stab makes it so good though Ive noticed people haven't been looking at typing it changes to when its attacked which can be a big weakness for it
Do you know that Barbaracle will always carry Lum Berry, in that case Talonflame is istantly screwed by a Razor Shell, or a White Herb, in that case Steel Wing will do laughable damage due to its low base power, lack of STAB and Barbaracle's high Defense and lack of weakness to Steel?
Why are you using Talonflame against Barbaracle anyway, just switch to Skarmory (or Mega Gengar if you predict Shell Smash).
Some people said earlier about using Rotom-W or Heatran to beat Talonflame. Let's see what happens if they try.
+2 252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 204-240 (84.29 - 99.17%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 136-162 (56.18 - 66.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So Rotom-W cannot switch in even if Talonflame has already used its Flying Gem.
+2 252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 204-240 (68.22 - 80.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
That's bulky attacking Rotom-W.
Yes, stuff like Heatran and Tyranitar wall it. But Talonflame isn't supposed to try to sweep until those threats are eliminated. Isn't it the same thing with Outrage spammers? Dugtrio, for one, pairs incredibly well with Talonflame, getting rid of Heatran, Tyranitar, and any other Rock-types with ease.
Also just for fun:
+2 252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 362-428 (108.38 - 128.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO after any damage (to break Sturdy)
+2 252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 282-333 (67.14 - 79.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Talonfmale Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 189-223 (45 - 53.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
+2 252+ Atk Talonfmale Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Electrode: 196-231 (75.09 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
+2 252+ Atk Talonfmale Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jolteon: 220-259 (81.18 - 95.57%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
So...Talonflame really loves hazards support. And offensively checking it is simply not done, since:
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite ExtremeSpeed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 195-230 (65.43 - 77.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk (custom) (Move 1) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 271-319 (83.64 - 98.45%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 107-126 (35.9 - 42.28%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Do I need to say what kind of damage Talonflame does back?
And other priority simply fail. I can conceivably see this guy being OU. If not, then it will definitely have a use there.
Some people said earlier about using Rotom-W or Heatran to beat Talonflame. Let's see what happens if they try.
+2 252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 204-240 (84.29 - 99.17%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 136-162 (56.18 - 66.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So Rotom-W cannot switch in even if Talonflame has already used its Flying Gem.
+2 252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 204-240 (68.22 - 80.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
That's bulky attacking Rotom-W.
Yes, stuff like Heatran and Tyranitar wall it. But Talonflame isn't supposed to try to sweep until those threats are eliminated. Isn't it the same thing with Outrage spammers? Dugtrio, for one, pairs incredibly well with Talonflame, getting rid of Heatran, Tyranitar, and any other Rock-types with ease.
Also just for fun:
+2 252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 362-428 (108.38 - 128.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO after any damage (to break Sturdy)
+2 252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 282-333 (67.14 - 79.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Talonfmale Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 189-223 (45 - 53.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
+2 252+ Atk Talonfmale Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Electrode: 196-231 (75.09 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
+2 252+ Atk Talonfmale Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jolteon: 220-259 (81.18 - 95.57%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
So...Talonflame really loves hazards support. And offensively checking it is simply not done, since:
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite ExtremeSpeed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 195-230 (65.43 - 77.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk (custom) (Move 1) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 271-319 (83.64 - 98.45%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 107-126 (35.9 - 42.28%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Do I need to say what kind of damage Talonflame does back?
And other priority simply fail. I can conceivably see this guy being OU. If not, then it will definitely have a use there.
Yeah, about Flying Gem. It's not in this game. People have been completely unable to find it. Not even Serebii has a listed location for it.
I'm not sure Aegislash will be banned for a while. I it might get banned later on if people are having to create entire strategies to deal with it, but it doesn't seem broken at a glance.
+2 252+ Atk Barbaracle Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 175-207 (52.39 - 61.97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
nope
Sharp beak BB on -2 def 4/0 barbaracle is 59.4% - 70.1%
So if Barbaracle tries to set up, will o wisp -> switch out -> BB revenge kill will almost always win.
Not to mention if you switch skarm into barbaracle's SS just tank the hit and whirlwind away.
Basically I'm more than comfortable taking on a barbaracle switching in on talonflame.
So if Barbaracle tries to set up, will o wisp -> switch out -> BB revenge kill will almost always win.
Not to mention if you switch skarm into barbaracle's SS just tank the hit and whirlwind away.
Basically I'm more than comfortable taking on a barbaracle switching in on talonflame.
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+2 252+ Atk Life Orb (custom) Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 296-350 (91.35 - 108.02%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Actually this looks like a decent matchup for rotom-w. Just need some EVs to avoid the OHKO even after rocks and Ohko back. If your current mon cannot handle Talonflame why not switch immediately?
All your calcs are at +2 but you need either OHKO at +2 or 2hko at +0. Hell, Rotom will survive the flying gem nuke, chesto rest it and proceed to KO and live with around 60% and still be useful.
I actually forgot Terrakion took neutral damage from flying type attacks. But point well taken.
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