Pokémon Aegislash

[Kriptini]

I'd replace King's shield with automotize.
Even with a boost, Shadow Sneak doesn't really hit hard enough to prevent something like Lucario from taking it and KOing you back. Speed's important for a sweeper.

Here we go again.

+6 0 Atk (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 328-387 (116.31 - 137.23%) -- guaranteed OHKO

With a total defensive Aegislash, it's easy to set up that +6 as well... but in my opinion, Stance Dance Aegislash is not effective without 252+ Atk investment. (With 252 EV points in Atk and a neutral nature, you can OHKO Lucario with Shadow Sneak at +4.)

Also, for Aegislash, you DON'T want Automatize and Shadow Sneak on the same set. Aegislash CANNOT take a hit while in Blade Forme, so if you strike first during a turn, you need it to be a KO. If you're going to use Automatize on Physical Aegislash, run Shadow Claw instead of Shadow Sneak for that extra BP.

Most Aegislash "sweeps" require him to move second. If you want him to be a traditional sweeper, you should run Automotize as your only boosting move (and you'll probably need to use it twice at least) and then ragequit when you get walled. (This is my way of saying that Aegislash shouldn't be used as a "traditional" sweeper.)

 

[UltiMario]

How many times have we been over this

Autotoslash cleans

not sweeps

If you're setting it up turn 1 to try and wreck entire teams by itself, you deserve to lose lol

btw you only need 1 autotomize to outspeed everything

While we're at it, Double Dance Aegi CAN sweep, but it requires 2 turns of set up. It can even be more effective than Stance Dance since +2 Shadow Claw hits 90% as hard as +6 Shadow Sneak, and requires 2 turns of set up rather than 3 to sweep with.

Stop spreading misinfo and bigoted opinions before someone has to do something about it.

 

[N1ght123]

Most Aegislash "sweeps" require him to move second. If you want him to be a traditional sweeper, you should run Automotize as your only boosting move (and you'll probably need to use it twice at least) and then ragequit when you get walled. (This is my way of saying that Aegislash shouldn't be used as a "traditional" sweeper.)

You want to preserve Aegi throughout the game and use it to pivot your opponent into switching throughout the game, chipping at your opponent with Stealth Rock. When the time is right (hard counters are gone+bulky pokemon are weakened) you go for Automatize and attempt the clean up.

I have found Sticky Web to be useful for outspeeding my opponents (giving Aegi a psuedo +1 speed), and since Stealth Rock chips at them as well I have been using a Smeargle lead to set both of these up. The only problem is Levitators and Flyers not being affected with Sticky Web. Flying types are hurt badly by Stealth Rock and the majority of Levitators in OU (Lati@s, Gengar, Hydreigon) are weak to Aegislash's coverage.

 

[Kriptini]

While we're at it, Double Dance Aegi CAN sweep, but it requires 2 turns of set up. It can even be more effective than Stance Dance since +2 Shadow Claw hits 90% as hard as +6 Shadow Sneak, and requires 2 turns of set up rather than 3 to sweep with.

Run the damage calcs, +6 Shadow Sneak is barely OHKOing threats, which means that 10% is making a noticeable difference. Regardless of which set you're using, you're boosting three times. The difference is that one of those sets beats Trick Room and the other doesn't.

Also, I forgot that Autotomize is +2 and thought it was +1, but you can say I'm "spreading misinfo" instead of making an honest mistake if you want.

 

[UltiMario]

Well, unlike Stance Dance you can afford to run, say, Spooky Plate.

Which means that the -10% power becomes +8% power.

 

[Kriptini]

Well, unlike Stance Dance you can afford to run, say, Spooky Plate.

Which means that the -10% power becomes +8% power.

Why can't Stance Dance run Spooky Plate?

 

[UltiMario]

Well, considering that it's basically forced to run lefties just to get the most out of king's shield, it's more of a question for why it SHOULD run Spooky Plate. You lose about a quarter of your health setting up running Spooky Plate compared to lefties on Stance Dance (thanks to King's Shield Stall) since you take 3 turns, rather than the 12.5% you forfeit when using double dance. When you already can't always rely on Shadow Sneak to kill stuff and need as much health as possible, stance dance is forced to run lefties.

 

[Kriptini]

Well, considering that it's basically forced to run lefties just to get the most out of king's shield, it's more of a question for why it SHOULD run Spooky Plate. You lose about a quarter of your health setting up running Spooky Plate compared to lefties on Stance Dance (thanks to King's Shield Stall) since you take 3 turns, rather than the 12.5% you forfeit when using double dance. When you already can't always rely on Shadow Sneak to kill stuff and need as much health as possible, stance dance is forced to run lefties.

Valid point, but I think it's a bad idea to have the mentality that Stance Dance has to "force" itself into running Leftovers. When I used to run Aegislash, I did a Stance Dance set, but I ran him with a Lum Berry because Klefki and Rotom switch-ins were extremely common when I did my first Swords Dance and my team's Clefable was providing Dual Screen support so Aegislash would take less damage during the set-up phase if my foe tried to whittle me down instead of Para/Burn me. (Aegislash blocks Brick Break which is pretty cool.)

I also don't think that Stance Dancers should plan on always alternating between Swords Dance and King's Shield during the initial setup phase, because being sometimes you need to do something different. If a foe tries to setup on me while I'm setting myself up, I'm only going to boost to the amount of Swords Dances I need to KO it, then Shadow Sneak. If a bulkier threat is switched in afterwards, I'll King's Shield to return to defensive stance and then resume Swords Dancing.

THAT'S what Stance Dance Aegislash is about. It's not about mindlessly alternating between Swords Dance and King's Shield, it's about alternating between Blade Forme and Shield Form as necessary while getting to your +6.

(P.S. What is going on with the website right now? Two crashes in like 20 minutes.)

 

[LittleTLK]

Here we go again.

+6 0 Atk (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 328-387 (116.31 - 137.23%) -- guaranteed OHKO

With a total defensive Aegislash, it's easy to set up that +6 as well... but in my opinion, Stance Dance Aegislash is not effective without 252+ Atk investment. (With 252 EV points in Atk and a neutral nature, you can OHKO Lucario with Shadow Sneak at +4.)

Also, for Aegislash, you DON'T want Automatize and Shadow Sneak on the same set. Aegislash CANNOT take a hit while in Blade Forme, so if you strike first during a turn, you need it to be a KO. If you're going to use Automatize on Physical Aegislash, run Shadow Claw instead of Shadow Sneak for that extra BP.

Most Aegislash "sweeps" require him to move second. If you want him to be a traditional sweeper, you should run Automotize as your only boosting move (and you'll probably need to use it twice at least) and then ragequit when you get walled. (This is my way of saying that Aegislash shouldn't be used as a "traditional" sweeper.)

I don't see Aegislash getting to +6 no matter how "defensive" it tries to play it.
Maybe it could do that really late int he match with only 1 or 2 pokemon on both teams, but it's not going to get to that to sweep the whole team unless you're facing someone inexperienced.

 

[DinaIsha]

Why Air Balloon is important on Aegislash: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/oubeta-60679448

Not only this, but Aegislash can get a free +2 Attack switching into an Earthquake.

 

[Lee]

Please post a log of this miraculous feat of Aegislash 'easily getting to +6.' Make it a competent opponent too, otherwise it's null.

I've yet to be swept by Stance Dance Aegislash, I'm not even sure I've lost a single Poke to it. Utter waste of potential and just a symptom of the 'everything-is-a-sweeper!!!' mentality that accompanied the initial periods of the previous two generations. When everything settles down, Stance Dance will be a relic or, at best, reserved for newer players; but heck, keep using it by all means; it increases the effectiveness of Special Aegislash...it's cute that people are still switching in their Landorus-T's and Gliscors.

 

[DinaIsha]

but heck, keep using it by all means; it increases the effectiveness of Special Aegislash...it's cute that people are still switching in their Landorus-T's and Gliscors.

It allows Aegislash to set up on threats that think Aegislash will use King's Shield upon switching in. With correct prediction, you can get upto a maxium of +4 while nerfing your opponents attack. Of course, you have to take care of special attacker before even thinking of switching in with Aegislash.

 

[Soul Fly]

Please post a log of this miraculous feat of Aegislash 'easily getting to +6.' Make it a competent opponent too, otherwise it's null.

I've yet to be swept by Stance Dance Aegislash, I'm not even sure I've lost a single Poke to it. Utter waste of potential and just a symptom of the 'everything-is-a-sweeper!!!' mentality that accompanied the initial periods of the previous two generations. When everything settles down, Stance Dance will be a relic or, at best, reserved for newer players; but heck, keep using it by all means; it increases the effectiveness of Special Aegislash...it's cute that people are still switching in their Landorus-T's and Gliscors.

Agreed. The SD set will be the Gyaravire of this era. Potentially effective but highly outclassed. After testing a multitude of Aegi sets only the bulky pivot with Shadow Sneak+Shadow Ball+Iron Head/Sacred Sword has shown maximum consitency. Wouldn't be surprised if it became an Aegi Staple. Does excellently teamed up with Rotom-W

 

[TheTtarManCan]

I'd replace King's shield with automotize.
Even with a boost, Shadow Sneak doesn't really hit hard enough to prevent something like Lucario from taking it and KOing you back. Speed's important for a sweeper.

How do you expect your opponent to let you set up swords dance and automize? I believe that Aegislash should be used as an defensive tank. If you move slower than the opponent, you can tank the hit in shield form, attack with the stronger shadowclaw, and then safely switch back to shield form next turn. If you out speed the opponent and they survive the hit, you are dead. Something like Focus Sash Alakazam could easily come in and stop you.

 

[Time Mage]

Agreed. The SD set will be the Gyaravire of this era. Potentially effective but highly outclassed. After testing a multitude of Aegi sets only the bulky pivot with Shadow Sneak+Shadow Ball+Iron Head/Sacred Sword has shown maximum consitency. Wouldn't be surprised if it became an Aegi Staple. Does excellently teamed up with Rotom-W

People still get surprised when they get nailed by a Specs Shadow ball on the switch against my Aegislash. Why go physical and using a weak priority move, thatn eeds at least 2 turns of setup, when you can come in on a resisted hit, hit hard, and gtfo?

Offensive pivot Aegislash is the best Aegislash. And the Special/mixed variety seems to be the most effective one, also.

 

[Nysyr]

Agreed. The SD set will be the Gyaravire of this era. Potentially effective but highly outclassed. After testing a multitude of Aegi sets only the bulky pivot with Shadow Sneak+Shadow Ball+Iron Head/Sacred Sword has shown maximum consitency. Wouldn't be surprised if it became an Aegi Staple. Does excellently teamed up with Rotom-W

No, people are just using it wrong. It has secured me multiple 6-0s through using it for its intended purpose: Lategame cleaner.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokebankoubeta-60608468
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/pokebankoubeta-60069828

 

[alexwolf]

Just added all the viable sets of Aegislash in the OP, so focus discussion mostly on those sets.

Aegislash @ / Life Orb
Ability: Stance Change

Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Metal Sound/King's Shield
- Autotomize/ HP fire/ HP Fighting

A full special offensive Aegislash, this takes advantages of aegislash's great special attack and bulk.

You don't need Metal Sound and Flash Cannon. Iron Head hits the common Fairy-types harder (Florges, Sylveon, and Togekiss) and Tyranitar too, while you should use Hidden Power Ice in the third slot to deal with Ground-types.

How is a mixed set gonna sweep when it is too slow and has no kings shield to put it back in defensive form

The mixed set's goal is not to sweep but to wallbreak.

Seeing as there is a lot of confusion as to what the role of each set is, i am going to explain them:

King's Shield +3 attacks: The epitome of a tank. Can take a lot of punishment and check dangerous Pokemon such as Mega Lucario, Togekiss, Azumarill, and more, while hitting hard and being very difficult to hard counter.

Autotomize: Late-game cleaner. Aims to set-up and sweep during the final stages of the game, where its checks and counters have been weakened or eliminated. Shouldn't usually set up if Pokemon that can take a hit and OHKO back are still alive, or Pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO it even after an Autotomize are alive.

Double Dance: Boosting tank. This is one of Aegislash's most versatile sets as it can easily adapt to most situations. It can set up with Swords Dance against defensive teams or Autotomize against offensive teams and start dishing damage, while still being a great pivot and check to many offensive Pokemon.

Mixed: The definition of a wallbreaker, and an excellent one at that. Nothing in OU can avoid the 2HKO from it except from SpD Hippowdon (which gets 2HKOed if Shadow Ball drops its SpD on the first hit, which is bound to happen sooner or later) and physically defensive Mandibuzz.

Swords Dance: Depending on the item of choice, Leftovers or Life Orb, it either plays as a mix of tank and late-game cleaner (with Leftovers and King's Shield) or as a softener and late-game cleaner (with Life Orb and Shadow Claw).

Also, since i didn't see it mentioned anywhere, here is the best counter to any Aegislash set:

Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Defog / Toxic
- Taunt

Avoids the 2HKO from any existing set of Aegislash and 2HKOes any variant with Foul Play, or OHKOes if Aegislash used Swords Dance as Mandibuzz came in. It doesn't care about King's Shield because Foul Play's damage is based on the opponent's Attack. This set is also a phenomenal anti-hazard supporter, switching easily into most hazard users, getting rid of their hazards, and preventing them from setting up any more with Taunt, so that you can bring something in that can take advantage of them if they don't care about Foul Play. Toxic is for teams that don't need Defog and when combined with Taunt can make short work of many defensive Pokemon that are not immune to it. Shame that Foul Play is not available yet on the existing X and Y OU metagame.

 

[Unforgivenronin]

Just added all the viable sets of Aegislash in the OP, so focus discussion mostly on those sets.

You don't need Metal Sound and Flash Cannon. Iron Head hits the common Fairy-types harder (Florges, Sylveon, and Togekiss) and Tyranitar too, while you should use Hidden Power Ice in the third slot to deal with Ground-types.

The mixed set's goal is not to sweep but to wallbreak.

Seeing as there is a lot of confusion as to what the role of each set is, i am going to explain them:

King's Shield +3 attacks: The epitome of a tank. Can take a lot of punishment and check dangerous Pokemon such as Mega Lucario, Togekiss, Azumarill, and more, while hitting hard and being very difficult to hard counter.

Autotomize: Late-game cleaner. Aims to set-up and sweep during the final stages of the game, where its checks and counters have been weakened or eliminated. Shouldn't usually set up if Pokemon that can take a hit and OHKO back are still alive, or Pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO it even after an Autotomize are alive.

Double Dance: Boosting tank. This is one of Aegislash's most versatile sets as it can easily adapt to most situations. It can set up with Swords Dance against defensive teams or Autotomize against offensive teams and start dishing damage, while still being a great pivot and check to many offensive Pokemon.

Mixed: The definition of a wallbreaker, and an excellent one at that. Nothing in OU can avoid the 2HKO from it except from SpD Hippowdon (which gets 2HKOed if Shadow Ball drops its SpD on the first hit, which is bound to happen sooner or later) and physically defensive Mandibuzz.

Swords Dance: Depending on the item of choice, Leftovers or Life Orb, it either plays as a mix of tank and late-game cleaner (with Leftovers and King's Shield) or as a softener and late-game cleaner (with Life Orb and Shadow Claw).

Also, since i didn't see it mentioned anywhere, here is the best counter to any Aegislash set:

Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Defog / Toxic
- Taunt

Avoids the 2HKO from any existing set of Aegislash and 2HKOes any variant with Foul Play, or OHKOes if Aegislash used Swords Dance as Mandibuzz came in. It doesn't care about King's Shield because Foul Play's damage is based on the opponent's Attack. This set is also a phenomenal anti-hazard supporter, switching easily into most hazard users, getting rid of their hazards, and preventing them from setting up any more with Taunt, so that you can bring something in that can take advantage of them if they don't care about Foul Play. Toxic is for teams that don't need Defog and when combined with Taunt can make short work of many defensive Pokemon that are not immune to it. Shame that Foul Play is not available yet on the existing X and Y OU metagame.

I would love to see a mix attacker one, a really good one

 

[LittleTLK]

I would love to see a mix attacker one, a really good one

Aegislash @ life orb
Naive nature, 252 att, 252 sp att, 4 speed
~Sacred Sword/Iron Head
~Shadow Ball
~Shadow Sneak/atotomize
~HP Ice

Near unresisted coverage, though you're slow and easily revenge killed.
If you baton passed a speed boost or two, the initial defensive stance would help you survive the switch in then wreck.
This set also lacks the raw power of the "boosting tank" set and heavily depends on a speed boost.
Atotomize is there to initially set up in the defensive stance, since an unboosted shadow sneak isn't going to KO faster threats most of the time.
You can take Iron Head over sacred sword, since steel doesn't resist ghost anymore, though you end up missing out on a few SE hits on normal and steel types.

 

[alexwolf]

I would love to see a mix attacker one, a really good one

Here is the mixed and the Autotomatic sets:

Aegislash @ Spooky Plate / Life Orb
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Iron Head
- Sacred Sword

Aegislash @ Life Orb
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 88 Atk / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Nature: Rash
- Autotomize
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Ice
- Iron Head / Sacred Sword

As i mentioned again, you can find those sets in the OP.

 

[Jahordon]

This thing is so easy to shutdown with Intimidate Gyarados + Earthquake. Just send in Gyara and EQ away. If you predict a switch or a King's Shield, you get a free DD.

 

[Time Mage]

This thing is so easy to shutdown with Intimidate Gyarados + Earthquake. Just send in Gyara and EQ away. If you predict a switch or a King's Shield, you get a free DD.

Or... Gyara is received with a Spooky Plate/Life Orb/Choice Specs Shadow Ball to the face.

 

[WillowWhisper]

Hmmmm... Well, I was thinking about a Special Set that utilized its ability and Power Trick. This would make it a Physical Wall and a Special Sweeper. So... a Tank?
Aegislash @ Life Orb
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA
Nature: Bold/Relaxed
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power Ice
- Power Trick

Shadow Ball has a slight increase in power compared to Shadow Claw, the physical STAB Ghost move. The difference is Shadow Ball can cause a Special Defense drop, but it's rare. With Shadow Claw, there is an increased critical hit ratio, making it critical about 12.5% of the time. Flash Cannon has the same power as Iron Head, however without the flinching and has the same effect as Shadow Ball. Since Aegislash is fairly slow already, you really do not have to worry about flinching unless you're aiming for a speedy sword. Power Trick is for when you go into Sword Forme. Aegislash's ability is similar to Power Trick, however, without the focus on Attack, you are able to make Aegislash reverse its ability without affecting its special stats, effectively making your Defense massive while keeping your Sp Attack in Sword Forme. This makes you vulnerable to special moves, but no more than if you were in Sword Forme to begin with. Hidden Power Ice is a more viable option if you want to target your opponent's Ground types that threaten you with STAB Earthquakes. Your high defenses make it a little harder to kill you, I think. Not sure. There's some very powerful Pokémon out there. Hidden Power Ice is also fairly weak so, that's a thing. This set seems gimmicky, and for that I apologize. Please delete this if it is incredibly stupid.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Has anyone run an all out stall set like
Aegislash @ leftovers
252 HP/252 Def
-Iron Defense
-Toxic
-Rest
-King's Shield

Probably not as effective and wastes his great ability, but could shut physical attackers down like all these new assault vest sets do to specials. Might be worth trying and it will definitely surprise his typical ground type counters.

note: I have not tried it so I don't know if it works, just thinking out loud.

 

[Mocha]

Has anyone run an all out stall set like
Aegislash @ leftovers
252 HP/252 Def
-Iron Defense
-Toxic
-Rest
-King's Shield

Probably not as effective and wastes his great ability, but could shut physical attackers down like all these new assault vest sets do to specials. Might be worth trying and it will definitely surprise his typical ground type counters.

note: I have not tried it so I don't know if it works, just thinking out loud.

You'd get countered by every Steel, Poison, and status absorber Pokemon. And once people figure out your set, they'll just set up all over you. Scizor/Mega Scizor can come in and start setting up Swords Dance. Mega Absol is immune to status with Magic Bounce (as are Espeon and Xatu) and can set up on you too. Gengar/Mega Gengar and other Aegislash (especially the specially offensive) can come in without worry, and give you hell with stab Shadow Ball.

Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress can come in, set up their entry hazards, and all your Iron Defense boosts can be Whirlwinded away by Skarmory. With Pokebank coming out, you'll have even more difficulty dealing with Pokemon that can easily switch in, even if the Pokemon I mentioned are only a couple of examples, they can still be huge threats, may that be for their offense, or utility.

I mean, I know your idea is to build a very tankish Pokemon, but you'd have to switch up some of those moves a bit if you're relying solely on Aegislash's bulk.