There is room for a stall Aegislash but I think you're going about it wrong, I'd personally go with Sub/King's Shield/Shadow Sneak/Toxic or Sacred Sword, then partner it up with proper hazard support like T-Spikes. So maybe something like an Aegislash, Infestation Tangrowth and Tentacruel core might work.
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Pokémon Aegislash
- Thread starter ArkWelder
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ok, so give him a sacred sword for steel/Absol coverage. Don't really care about poisons cuz the only poison that could touch Aegislash is Gengar who's deathly afraid of his shadow sneak. This might actually work, I'll try it as soon as I get the right support mons ready.
There is no reason to use Toxic on something with 150 / 150 offenses. If you want to deal with Ground-types easier just use max SpA investment and Shadow Ball. However, if you want to use a fully defensive EV spread (252 HP / 252 Def or 252 HP / 252 SpD) you just have to use Toxic over one of Aegislash's attacking moves. No Sub and no RestTalk. Something like this:
- King's Shield
- Toxic
- Shadow Sneak / Shadow Ball
- Sacred Sword / Iron Head
- King's Shield
- Toxic
- Shadow Sneak / Shadow Ball
- Sacred Sword / Iron Head
I've had really good luck with Aegislash @ WeaknessPolicy.
Brave Aegislash
Item: WeaknessPolicy
Ability: Stance Change
EV Spread: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def.
Shadow Claw/Shadow Sneak
Sacred Sword/Iron Head
King's Shield
Swords Dance/Shadow Sneak
This is the same set that was posted earlier by kd24, but with a weakness policy in there. Idea is you can tank a super effective move in shield form, be slow to get the free swords dance from weakness policy right before you hit. Then after you have the weakness policy buff, shadow sneak/kings shield as needed. I've had very good luck with it in the battle Maison since it's hard to get OHKO'd in shield form, but idk how that will fare in the real world.
Brave Aegislash
Item: WeaknessPolicy
Ability: Stance Change
EV Spread: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def.
Shadow Claw/Shadow Sneak
Sacred Sword/Iron Head
King's Shield
Swords Dance/Shadow Sneak
This is the same set that was posted earlier by kd24, but with a weakness policy in there. Idea is you can tank a super effective move in shield form, be slow to get the free swords dance from weakness policy right before you hit. Then after you have the weakness policy buff, shadow sneak/kings shield as needed. I've had very good luck with it in the battle Maison since it's hard to get OHKO'd in shield form, but idk how that will fare in the real world.
Finished my team built around StallSlash, and I haven't lost a 1v1 yet. Typically what happens is they send in a steel type to bypass T spikes which I respond with a sacred sword. Then they go for an earthquake spammer which I substitute and king's shield till I can finish them off. It'll sometimes get another kill in, but after that its usefulness is lost. I'll let y'all judge if this sets worth it, but I think I'll stick with it for a while, not the heavy sweeper other sets are, but more reliable at getting its kills in before it falls
Here's my set (ripped straight from UltiMario), but I'm deciding on switching it up a bit:
Basically what I'm asking is, where does Steel SHINE more? (har) As a Physical Attack or a Special Attack?
Heck, is Steel even necessary? Are there better moves to put in for coverage on either side that'd deal with all of Aegislash's threats more effectively than an 80 BP Steel type move?
Aegislash (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Iron Head
- Shadow Ball
I was wondering if I should keep Iron Head as the Steel coverage STAB or switch it to Flash Cannon. Flash Cannon and Iron Head have the exact same BP, just one being Physical and the other being Special. Now my main weakness is database knowledge, so I was hoping you guys could help me out on this. Out of all of the Pokemon who would attempt to wall Aegislash, would Flash Cannon do a better job at taking them out than Iron Head would, or would Iron Head deal with them better? Are there even any defense heavy special defense weak walls that'd resist Shadow Ball?Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Iron Head
- Shadow Ball
Basically what I'm asking is, where does Steel SHINE more? (har) As a Physical Attack or a Special Attack?
Heck, is Steel even necessary? Are there better moves to put in for coverage on either side that'd deal with all of Aegislash's threats more effectively than an 80 BP Steel type move?
From what I understand with Aegislash, although his SpAtk=Atk, his physical movepool is superior to his special movepool, which is why I believe everyone uses him physically. He can also tank a lot better with HP EV's, so I'd imagine speccing max EV's into Atk and SpAtk to weaken your overall job of "tank->kill".
In terms of Steel coverage for the STAB, steel is awful for type coverage if you already have Fighting, since the only difference will be increased damage to Fairy types. If the fairy is a wall/tank (most of them are I think), I doubt the STAB super effective Iron Head will OHKO, especially since they have a good chance of going first and using some status ailment on you. If the fairy is a Gardevoir, you already have Ghost type STAB.
Mostly, I see that your set has no ability to proc Aegislash's Stance Change and change back into a defensive stance. In which case, your Aegislash will suffer from Rampardos-syndrome: Slow glass cannons don't do anything. Mixslash does make sense in a way though. In my opinion, I'd change Iron Head to King's Shield.
The issue with King's Shield (while I am debating on it) is that it's stupidly predictable. And he does a pretty bad job at killing if he doesn't have a way to deal with Physical Walls. Finally, Rampardos-Syndrome (while a noticeable problem) isn't AS glaring since he can tank hit 1, dish out a massive Sacred Sword/Shadow Ball hit, then finish them off with Shadow Sneak.
I mean, King's Shield would be a nice move, I feel like his role is to switch in, tank, hit, clean up with priority, switch out. At least that's what's been proving successful for me.
With that kind of set however, aegislash is only gonna have one switch in per match because of your uninvested defenses. I feel aegislash deserves better than that. With a kings shield + 3 set you have actual survivability with 252 hp and kings sheild with maximum special atk evs and 4 atk evs for bombing opponents and then staying in to rinse and repeat. Everyone says the sheild is predictable, but the predictability of the move is actually up to how the opponent uses it.
Set from OP
252 HP/252sp.atk/4 atk
leftovers/life orb/weakness policy?
Sacred sword
Shadow ball
Shadow sneak
kings Sheild
Quiet nature
Try the following strategy:
When in defense mode and shield is usable, flip a coin. If heads, King's shield; if tails, 2nd turn attack.
When in defense mode without shield usable, you are forced to 2nd turn attack or switch out.
When in sword mode and enemy low HP, shadow sneak.
When in sword mode and enemy high HP, roll a die. If 1-4, King's shield; if 5-6, 2nd turn attack.
Using a mixed strategy, you can actually use Aegislash's Stance Change and strong damaging power effectively, but you are less predictable. If the other guy knows when you King's Shield, he won't bother attacking, unless he is a special attacker without any set up moves. Using a mixed strategy might sound like a gimmicky solution, but it's actually a very serious tool to avoid predictability, and works really well all over pokemon battling.
For one, the idea of flipping a coin to decide a move makes my insides hurt, and 2, the only time my StallSlash (Kings shield, Substitute, Shadow Sneak, Sacred Sword, Leftovers, with 252 in HP and Def) is if its a) safely behind a substitute b) countering a steel type (or mega Absol) with sacred sword or c) finishing off a weakend foe with shadow sneak (which you did account for). As long as you have good T spikes support, kicks donkey. The only real threat is flyers who are immune to T spikes and can carry defog, but I'm working on that.
This is an exaggeration. Shadow Ball is Aegislash's most powerful attack, and Hidden Power gives it useful coverage like Ice. There isn't much sense in going full special, but a specially based mixed set can muscle through stuff that otherwise stops Aegislash, and Aegislash has the raw stats to be able to balance investment in both.
Here's a thought. How useful is a Substitute on Aegislash? It seems like it forces switches easily enough, and it has the bulk to set one up (before you attack, anyways).
Aegislash @ Leftovers / Shadow Plate
252 Sp Attack, 252 Attack, 4 HP / 252 HP, 252 Attack, 4 Defense
Quiet / Adamant Nature
Substitute
Shadow Ball / Shadow Claw
Iron Head / Hidden Power
Sacred Sword / Hidden Power
I'd run Leftovers / Quiet / Shadow Ball, but I figure there's use for the other options as well, Shadow Plate for more offensive players and Adamant / Shadow Claw for those who don't want to split offenses. Hidden Power gets a slash (so punny) for being able to lure in and quickly KO specific Pokemon, Ice for Garchomp and Gliscor, for example.
Thoughts and opinions?
Aegislash @ Leftovers / Shadow Plate
252 Sp Attack, 252 Attack, 4 HP / 252 HP, 252 Attack, 4 Defense
Quiet / Adamant Nature
Substitute
Shadow Ball / Shadow Claw
Iron Head / Hidden Power
Sacred Sword / Hidden Power
I'd run Leftovers / Quiet / Shadow Ball, but I figure there's use for the other options as well, Shadow Plate for more offensive players and Adamant / Shadow Claw for those who don't want to split offenses. Hidden Power gets a slash (so punny) for being able to lure in and quickly KO specific Pokemon, Ice for Garchomp and Gliscor, for example.
Thoughts and opinions?
Aegislash is way too slow to utilize sub on the mixed set. The whole point of the mixed set is hitting hard on the switch in and following up with shadow sneak. If you are setting up subs then you give up a moveslot for shadow sneak or iron head. The best counter to Aegislash is mandibuzz. Hippowdon is the best check that is ou worthy. Pretty much any very bulky Pokemon that knows earthquake is a decent check
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Piconoe If you're thinking Iron Head vs Flash Cannon, Steel STAB is basically for Fairy types while hitting non-TTar Rocks and Ices harder as a bonus, and for the most part you'd be targeting their generally lower physical defense stat, so Iron Head is the superior option. The only thing worth using Flash Cannon on would be Avalugg, which dies to Shadow Ball anyways.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_(game_theory)#Mixed_strategy
Think of it this way: let's say you are playing rock paper scissors. If your strategy ISN'T rock, paper, or scissors, 1/3 probability each time, then your strategy will have at least some degree of predictability and you will lose more frequently than you win. This kind of "coin flipping" strategy is actually pretty widespread--even seasoned football coaches have to resort to them ("mixing the plays" they call it). I'm saying you can hide your "obvious" King's Shield behind a shield of probability to defend yourself against predictability.
Also I'm not arguing about StallSlash, I'm talking about MixSlash. I think you forgot/deleted some important words in your second sentence (the only time my Stallslash [something missing here] is if its...).
Air Balloon seems as a good item on Aegislash. Spikes are common, and so is EQ which seems to be Aegislash's worst nightmare. Sure you can use life orb and or lefties but they don't seem like he NEEDS them. But i guess lefties help if Aegislash is burned, life orb is good to but I'd prefer to survive a hit and use a SD instead of LO. I do see that gravity can Mess up air balloon(Wait can it?) if so then your Air balloon is going to waste but still, It seems worth running.
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If you're smart you Swords Dance on something that can't touch you, so you boost while your opponent switches. Life Orb lets you get quite a few notable 2HKOes (Hippowdon, Skarmory, Gliscor if you're at +4, and a ton of more Shadow Sneak KOes), while Leftovers increases your survivability and lets you tank more attacks. If your opponent has Earthquake and you're not immediately able to kill them, switch. You have teammates for a reason.
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And if they are dead? Also, I doubt it's that easy to pull off two SD to get to +4. Idk, I might use Air balloon if EQ becomes even more common. I think balloon has it's place on Aegislash sometimes.
If all your teammates are dead and Aegislash is your last mon and you are trying to sweep with it and there are still such Ground-types left you did something wrong. If you have only one Pokemon that can take Earthquakes you suck at making teams.
Also, +4 isn't that hard to get, Aegislash is really bulky in Shield Stance and King's Shield, if used correctly, can let you get those boosts. Although normally you're content with +2.
And what does Balloon do other than force Gliscor out? Landorus-T just Stone Edges (which doesn't make contact so no King's Shield) and it'll then be able to kill you with EQ. Hippowdon can still Roar you out. Skarmory laughs at any non-LO Aegislash since it can't do enough damage at +2 without Life Orb.
Leftovers at least makes it easier to get to +4 so you can have Life Orb level power.
Air Balloon is a great item on Aegislash. . .sometimes. Since Aegislash's claim to fame is his ability to set up in defense mode and take hits before his sweep, he'll often take a couple hits before they bring out their counter, just because there's really no such thing as a safe switch in when Aegislash is involved. Most of the time, Air Balloon will be popped before it can be activated, so I don't think its a good first choice as an item, more like a third choice, but I'd love to see who uses leftovers better than Aegislash.
I have used/seen Aegislash in use and can safely say he is a beast when used by an experienced player. King's Shield is amazing. Crippling most physical attackers when they use a contact move lets you get the boosts you need with swords dance. His absurd attack at +2 is scary with shadowsneak. On top of that, if you need to use your other physical attack, i go with brick break, you can use kings shield, revert back to your defensive self, take the hit as that, and deal A LOT of damage (hopefully enough to put the opposing poke in ko range for shadow sneak next turn). If you have not used him or seen him in use you really shouldn't be posting about him. When I glanced over him at the start of gen 6 I too saw Aegislash as a gimmick, that just would have no staying power due to lack of recovery, and being a bulky, slow mon, he really needs it. But theorymon simply doesn't work with this guy. He counters many dragons, is immune to fighting. A pivot set can also be used very effectively as well keeping the opponent on their toes wondering whether or not you're going to be laying into foes for heavy damage early-mid game or sweeping late-game. Aegislash is the epitome of practicality in today's metagame.
2 problems
1. Nobody with a brain uses contact moves against this guy.
2. Why would you use brick break over sacred sword? Screens aren't that popular and the damage difference is noticeable
Besides that, I think you understand the typical Aegislash quite well
People are starting to inderstand not ro use direct contact physical moves vs Aegislash because of King's Shield. A problem with King's Shield is that it doesn't protect against non-attacking moves. There are times that I'll use King's Shield to protect myself from a physical attack only to gwt hit with a T-Wave or WoW. It could just be me, but Aegislash could be getting predictable. How about using Protect over King's Shield?
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