Xerneas

[Count Serperior]

I have a question: taking into account the Aura boost, what would Xerneas' Moonblast BP be?
Is it a simple 1.3 x 95 or is the calculation more complicated?
It'd be great if someone could tell how the math is done so I can calculate Yveltal's DarK Pulse and Suckerpunch too, just out if curiosity.

 

[phoenixflame95]

I have a question: taking into account the Aura boost, what would Xerneas' Moonblast BP be?
Is it a simple 1.3 x 95 or is the calculation more complicated?
It'd be great if someone could tell how the math is done so I can calculate Yveltal's DarK Pulse and Suckerpunch too, just out if curiosity.

Yeah, so Fairy Aura and Dark Aura boost damage by 4/3, or around 33%, and Xerneas has STAB for Moonblast, so the damage is 4/3 * 95 * 1.5 = 190 BP. So the power should equal a super effective 95 BP move. Just replace the 95 of Moonblast for 80 for Dark Pulse/ Sucker Punch for Yveltal.

 

[Count Serperior]

So

Yeah, so Fairy Aura and Dark Aura boost damage by 4/3, or around 33%, and Xerneas has STAB for Moonblast, so the damage is 4/3 * 95 * 1.5 = 190 BP. So the power should equal a super effective 95 BP move. Just replace the 95 of Moonblast for 80 for Dark Pulse/ Sucker Punch for Yveltal.

Interesting, it's basically a single-type Adaptability boost.

Gotta keep in mind that this means that a NVE Moonblast is just as strong as a neutral coverage move like Thunderbolt.

 

[effyouzion]

Yeah, fairy aura is a big reason why scarf is a great set. Moonblast with STAB and the aura boost is basically just as powerful as a STAB draco meteor (190 moonblast vs. 195 DM), except it's spammable. This lets you use your other 3 slots to do whatever you want. I even threw aromatherapy in there on a scarf set on one of my teams that's particularly weak to toxic and doesn't need Xern to do much other than spam moonblast.

 

[FlowingCloud]

So


Interesting, it's basically a single-type Adaptability boost.

Gotta keep in mind that this means that a NVE Moonblast is just as strong as a neutral coverage move like Thunderbolt.

NVM Moonblast 190 > thunderbolt 90*2

dont forget that thunderbolt is 90BP only now!

 

[cristurtwig]

So...
Is Geomancy Xerneas a good option? or... Is life orb Xerneas a better choice?

Can anyone suggest me the best option?

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

So...
Is Geomancy Xerneas a good option? or... Is life orb Xerneas a better choice?

Can anyone suggest me the best option?

Power Herb Geomancy set is generally the best.

 

[Haruno]

Power Herb Geomancy set is generally the best.

only on lower ladder. When the opponents start getting better, geomancy xern starts getting worse since you're at essentially 5-6 until late mid/endgame lol

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

only on lower ladder. When the opponents start getting better, geomancy xern starts getting worse since you're at essentially 5-6 until late mid/endgame lol

Then who the hell is giving me my information?

 

[cristurtwig]

only on lower ladder. When the opponents start getting better, geomancy xern starts getting worse since you're at essentially 5-6 until late mid/endgame lol

What does "5-6" means?

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

What does "5-6" means?

You have five left, they have six.

So essentially "down a mon."

 

[cristurtwig]

So... my opponent have 6 Pokémon alive, no?
But, What's the problem of Geomancy Xerneas if I have 5 Pokémon alive?

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

So... my opponent have 6 Pokémon alive, no?
But, What's the problem of Geomancy Xerneas if I have 5 Pokémon alive?

Like, you lose xerneas, and thus you are at an immediate disadvantage by having one less living mon.

 

[cristurtwig]

Sorry if I have some mistakes. I'm spanish and I have problems with some expressions.

And if I choose Geomancy Xern, Do I have to use it the first?

 

[MafiaZebra]

Sorry if I have some mistakes. I'm spanish and I have problems with some expressions.

And if I choose Geomancy Xern, Do I have to use it the first?

No. You get to choose when you use it but you have to be vary of when that is. If the opponent has a scizor, lugia, heatran or bronzong alive on their team you should eliminate them first then send out Xerneas when it is safe.

 

[GRB1]

No. You get to choose when you use it but you have to be vary of when that is. If the opponent has a scizor, lugia, heatran or bronzong alive on their team you should eliminate them first then send out Xerneas when it is safe.

Klefki, Thundurus, Ho-oh (without Stealth Rock up), Bulky Arceus forms (mainly EKiller, Steelceus and those with Roar), and some support Dialga variants should be added to that list.

 

[Blue Jay]

Sorry if I have some mistakes. I'm spanish and I have problems with some expressions.

And if I choose Geomancy Xern, Do I have to use it the first?

Xerneas must usually be kept in pristine condition until such time as it sets up, as it needs to survive the turn it sets up and any subsequent attacks (either priority or from Pokemon which can survive an attack from it and retaliate) in order to sweep successfully. Since you need to refrain from using it to give it a good chance to sweep, you effectively play a team of 5 against the opponent's team of 6 until you do bring it out (usually lategame, unless your opponent decided to build a team with no decent way to check Geomancy Xerneas). This is what Haruno meant.

 

[cristurtwig]

Xerneas must usually be kept in pristine condition until such time as it sets up, as it needs to survive the turn it sets up and any subsequent attacks (either priority or from Pokemon which can survive an attack from it and retaliate) in order to sweep successfully. Since you need to refrain from using it to give it a good chance to sweep, you effectively play a team of 5 against the opponent's team of 6 until you do bring it out (usually lategame, unless your opponent decided to build a team with no decent way to check Geomancy Xerneas). This is what Haruno meant.

Thank you very much!

Therefore, do you suggested me that I don't use Geomancy Xerneas? or... Will it depend of other Pokémon of my team?

 

[SCIENCE!!!]

I wonder why nobody thought of physical all out attacker xerneas? Both attacking stats are the same, after all.
Xerneas @ Life Orb
Ability: Fairy Aura
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Horn Leech
- Outrage
Nobody will expect this. Surprise factor for the win.

 

[Hack]

..but your usual counters still wall you (read Ho-oh, Aegislash, Jirachi, Lugia)

 

[Jimmyftw]

I wonder why nobody thought of physical all out attacker xerneas? Both attacking stats are the same, after all.
Xerneas @ Life Orb
Ability: Fairy Aura
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Horn Leech
- Outrage
Nobody will expect this. Surprise factor for the win.

It's mainly because Xerneas doesn't have any usable Fairy type moves that are physical.

 

[sparktrain]

I wonder why nobody thought of physical all out attacker xerneas? Both attacking stats are the same, after all.
Xerneas @ Life Orb
Ability: Fairy Aura
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Horn Leech
- Outrage
Nobody will expect this. Surprise factor for the win.

Physical Xerneas is unexpected for sure, but no physical Fairy STAB or boosting moves really holds it back. Xerneas should really stick to mixed attacking if it's using physical moves, because Moonblast is just too good to give up. And locking Xerneas into non-STAB Outrage is a bad idea.

 

[New World Order]

Xerneas must usually be kept in pristine condition until such time as it sets up, as it needs to survive the turn it sets up and any subsequent attacks (either priority or from Pokemon which can survive an attack from it and retaliate) in order to sweep successfully. Since you need to refrain from using it to give it a good chance to sweep, you effectively play a team of 5 against the opponent's team of 6 until you do bring it out (usually lategame, unless your opponent decided to build a team with no decent way to check Geomancy Xerneas). This is what Haruno meant.

I'd like people to take note that this comment is completely false and absolutely NOT how you play Geomancy Xerneas. You're handicapping yourself if you keep Xerneas locked up in it's Pokeball and try to 5v6, then send out Xerneas when the game is pretty much over.

What you're actually supposed to do early game is send out Xerneas liberally every time the opponent uses a dragon move or brings out a Pokemon that's set up bait for Xerneas. Then instead of mindlessly clicking Geomancy on turn 1 like a lab monkey, you do one of the following:

1) Use Moonblast/Thunderbolt/Focus Blast off the bat to soften up whatever check is coming in. Since every Xerneas check bar Ho-oh is either a phaser or a Steel-type, they're pretty easy to switch into afterward with another Pokemon while Xerneas escapes unscathed. Now you have a weakened check that likely wont have a chance to heal because they risk getting taken out by whatever you sent in, Xerneas will be able to break through later on, usually after 2/3 cycles, and just plow through the rest of the team, which often can't do a thing about Xerneas. As for Ho-oh, if neither SR nor Rain is up, it's a pain in the ass, but that goes for pretty much every other Pokemon in the game, not just Xerneas. Seeing Ho-oh on the other team doesn't translate to "lock up Xerneas and prevent it from contributing at all".

2) Double switch-in a Pokemon that has a good matchup against the opposing check. When Xerneas comes out, 99% of people will send in their Xerneas check, as it's just too risky not to, making prediction very very easy. It's often very obvious what the opponent's Xerneas check is, considering how they all have pretty similar traits (again ignoring Ho-oh). Now you have the opponent in a corner, they can either stay in and lose their check or come out and let whatever you send in get a free Draco Meteor/Water Spout/Earthquake or whatever.

3) Bluff a Choice Scarf set. It's important that if you're going to go this route is to be stubborn about it and not go out of character. Even if you know 100% that Aegislash is coming in, use Moonblast anyway. Eventually, your opponent will drop their guard and use their Xerneas check as fodder. If your opponent decides to call your bluff and keep in their Mega Mewtwo X or Rayquaza, then they simply die. Even though your opponent now knows you're a Geomancy set and your Xerneas is no longer in mint condition, you just sacrificed 50% of Xerneas to bring down another deadly sweeper like MMX or DDRay, I'd say you take that trade every day of the week.

 

[Blue Jay]

I'd like people to take note that this comment is completely false and absolutely NOT how you play Geomancy Xerneas. You're handicapping yourself if you keep Xerneas locked up in it's Pokeball and try to 5v6, then send out Xerneas when the game is pretty much over.

What you're actually supposed to do early game is send out Xerneas liberally every time the opponent uses a dragon move or brings out a Pokemon that's set up bait for Xerneas. Then instead of mindlessly clicking Geomancy on turn 1 like a lab monkey, you do one of the following:

1) Use Moonblast/Thunderbolt/Focus Blast off the bat to soften up whatever check is coming in. Since every Xerneas check bar Ho-oh is either a phaser or a Steel-type, they're pretty easy to switch into afterward with another Pokemon while Xerneas escapes unscathed. Now you have a weakened check that likely wont have a chance to heal because they risk getting taken out by whatever you sent in, Xerneas will be able to break through later on, usually after 2/3 cycles, and just plow through the rest of the team, which often can't do a thing about Xerneas. As for Ho-oh, if neither SR nor Rain is up, it's a pain in the ass, but that goes for pretty much every other Pokemon in the game, not just Xerneas. Seeing Ho-oh on the other team doesn't translate to "lock up Xerneas and prevent it from contributing at all".

2) Double switch-in a Pokemon that has a good matchup against the opposing check. When Xerneas comes out, 99% of people will send in their Xerneas check, as it's just too risky not to, making prediction very very easy. It's often very obvious what the opponent's Xerneas check is, considering how they all have pretty similar traits (again ignoring Ho-oh). Now you have the opponent in a corner, they can either stay in and lose their check or come out and let whatever you send in get a free Draco Meteor/Water Spout/Earthquake or whatever.

3) Bluff a Choice Scarf set. It's important that if you're going to go this route is to be stubborn about it and not go out of character. Even if you know 100% that Aegislash is coming in, use Moonblast anyway. Eventually, your opponent will drop their guard and use their Xerneas check as fodder. If your opponent decides to call your bluff and keep in their Mega Mewtwo X or Rayquaza, then they simply die. Even though your opponent now knows you're a Geomancy set and your Xerneas is no longer in mint condition, you just sacrificed 50% of Xerneas to bring down another deadly sweeper like MMX or DDRay, I'd say you take that trade every day of the week.

Any offensive dragon that anyone uses anymore (lol DDRay) carries moves that Geomancy Xerneas can't afford to switch into, and even most "set up bait" carries a move that will hurt Xerneas on the switch, whether through status or even a relatively weak attacking move (like a neutral Judgment). Add the possibility of SR and suddenly Xerneas risks becoming severely weakened in this process.

1) If your opponent repeatedly makes the same plays, has only 1 Pokemon capable of handling a (likely weakened) Geomancy Xerneas and repeatedly provides Xerneas switchin opportunities, sure. I feel like that's a lot of ifs, but maybe that's just me. Also, something like Aegislash switches into any Xerneas set not carrying HP Fire (or Ground, but lol) for days and still checks it. Handing out free turns also becomes a lot less cool when your opponent turns out to be competent.

2) Prediction is a relatively poor argument to begin with. But sure. This also does not in any way demonstrate why anyone would want to use Geomancy Xerneas; really, any set would perform this role just as well.

3) If your opponent plays poorly, they lose. Indeed. Assuming a set without a solid reason is poor or desperate play. Keeping a MMX or a DDray on a Xerneas that isn't definitely running a Choice Scarf set locked into a resisted move is either poor or desperate play. Moreover, after all these mindgames trying to bluff sets to no end, you used a Geomancy Xerneas to beat out threats against which you would've been better off with Choice Scarf Xerneas in the first place.

None of this has served to convince me of the utility of Geomancy Xerneas. All I'm getting from your arguments is "If you predict successfully a lot and/or your opponent plays poorly Geomancy Xerneas is at times more useful than any of its other sets". Not assuming you outpredict your opponent or that they decide to make poor plays, I see essentially all of its other sets usually accomplishing more than this against any skilled player. Yes, at times you may break through their checks with the rest of your team and find an opportunity to sweep successfully, but the rest of the time one of the other sets would've done more. Like providing a cleric, or having revenge killing utility, or luring and killing Ho-Oh.

 

[Garchompi]

None of this has served to convince me of the utility of Geomancy Xerneas.

You're just about the first person I ever see questioning the value of what is the without question best special sweeper in the game.
If anything I don't see what else Xerneas is good at. Its movepool is way too sparse and its stats aren't allocated in a way it can try to accomplish anything else.
Scarf? 99 base speed sucks in a tier where 100 is the bare minimum benchmark for that role (unless something has some disgustingly powerful attack like Kyogre's Water Spout).
Physical? Not only does it lack a physical STAB, but its main offensive options have severe drawbacks (Close Combat's defense drops, Megahorn awful offensive type and Outrage locking effect).
Mixed? It lacks the raw power to do that. 130~ attacking stats aren't exactly spectacular in ubers without a boost.
Defensive/support? It has Aromatherapy but lacks a reliable recovery move.

If you're trying to do anything besides Geomancy sweeping with Xerneas you'll quickly find out that Arceus-Fairy is a better option. It's a one-trick deer, but an obscenely good one at that. Not using Geomancy is a huge waste.