I like this kid. Gonna stamp that Legitimate Username Fireburn
GP 1/2
Will post in the queue tomorrow
GP 1/2
Will post in the queue tomorrow
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Ubers Groudon (GP 2/2)
- Thread starter Fireburn
- Start date
Fixed this and implemented the first GP check. Thanks!
Kingler12345 Are you really doing this? Posting a placeholder and not doing it for 11 hours is counterproductive and limits what the other GP members and amcheckers could do.
Overview
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Groudon is a powerful and versatile threat, boasting the ability to sweep efficiently with boosting moves in Rock Polish and/or and Swords Dance, or to support the team with Stealth Rock, phazing, or status. Its high Defense allows it to act as a check to many prominent physical threats,(AC) such as Arceus-Normal Arceus, Zekrom, Terrakion, and Garchomp, and its enormous Attack paired with STAB Earthquake make makes it a lethal offensive threat as well. Drought is something else Groudon can use effectively, making it useful for temporarily pumping up the power of Fire-types such as Ho-Oh (it powers up fire-type MOVES; so maybe say that and say ho-oh's sacred fire? or say that it is good for fire types bc x, y, and z). However, it is held back by its modest Special Defense and Speed stats, and the nerf of Drought in Generation 6 VI somewhat lessens Groudon's supporting capabilities. Nevertheless, Groudon remains the potent force it has always been for the past three generations in the Ubers metagame.
Support
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name: Support
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Stone Edge / Lava Plume
move 4: Toxic / Dragon Tail / Roar
ability: Drought
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
nature: Impish
Moves
========
Earthquake is a powerful STAB move that hits hard thanks to Groudon's naturally high base Attack, despite having no investment. It is mandatory for properly dealing with threats such as Zekrom. Stealth Rock is a very useful support move for Groudon: it is one of the few viable users of the move in Ubers, and Groudon's bulk and typing usually gives give it ample chances to come in and set it up in battle. Stone Edge is very helpful,(AC) as it allows Groudon to OHKO Ho-Oh and significantly damage Yveltal, both of which are dangerous threats that could otherwise freely come in on Groudon. If these threats aren't of concern to your team, Lava Plume is also a solid option for allowing Groudon to KO Skarmory easily, who which can otherwise switch freely in on Groudon and use Defog to remove Stealth Rock, easily, while also hitting Landorus-T and potentially crippling it with a burn. However, Lava Plume is not recommended for use if Toxic is run in the last moveslot, as it still cripples Landorus-T and has more general use (does the last word of this sentence mean 'utility'?).
Speaking of the last moveslot, the choice between Toxic, Dragon Tail, and Roar can be difficult and is oftentimes dependent on what is more important to your team. Toxic pressures Defog users such as support Arceus (if you are referring to formes here, say 'Arceus formes' as arceus means arceus-n),(AC) so they can't freely switch in on Groudon, and it cripples many of Groudon's other checks,(AC) such as Landorus-T and Lugia. Dragon Tail allows Groudon to phaze dangerous threats such as Arceus-Normal Arceus and Mega Mewtwo X, and is generally preferred to over Roar since , as it gets valuable chip damage on enemy Pokemon and is not blocked by Taunt. However, Roar has perfect accuracy and phazes Substitute users such as Ho-Oh, although Groudon will still need Stone Edge to check it.
Set Details
========
You will always want to fully invest in Groudon's bulk with the set, usually maximizing its Defense so that it can check physical threats as needed. Leftovers is the preferred item in most cases,(AC) as it is Groudon's only form of recovery. Lum Berry is also an option,(AC) as it gives Groudon one-time status protection and is useful against support Arceus (formes?), Ho-Oh, and lead Darkrai, but losing the recovery of Leftovers recovery is usually not worth it. Heat Rock can be used if you're running a dedicated sun team to extend Drought's duration to 8 turns rather than 5 (spell out these numbers), but this is only recommended if you are using sun-(AH)reliant Pokemon such as Mega Charizard X or Mega Houndoom. It also doesn't help that most Chlorophyll sweepers in Ubers are not worth using even if Drought was were still permanent.
An alternate alternative EV spread for Groudon is 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD,(RC) with a Careful nature. This makes Groudon surprisingly durable on the special side, making it a better check to mixed Zekrom, support Dialga, and Arceus-Electric Electric Arceus. Specially defensive groudon Groudon can also take two Lustrous Orb-(AH)boosted Spacial Rends from Palkia at full health, making it useful as an emergency check. However, specially defensive Groudon is not nearly as good at checking the physical threats it is otherwise meant to.
Usage Tips
========
Groudon can switch easily into physical attackers such as Zekrom, Tyranitar, Mega Lucario, Terrakion, and most forms of Swords Dance Arceus formes, as well as bulky Steel-types such as Aegislash and Jirachi, giving it great opportunities to set up Stealth Rock, phaze, or spread status. It fits best on balanced or stall teams that need a physically bulky Pokemon that which can set up Stealth Rock reliably. It can work on more offensively oriented teams, but support Groudon isn't as good at maintaining momentum,(AC) so it would be better to stick to the more offensively inclined sets.
Deciding when to use Stealth Rock takes a bit more care than it may might seem at first glance, as taking a turn to use the move can cost you a lot of momentum. Save it for when you predict the opponent to switch out or are in against something that doesn't threaten Groudon too much such as Tyranitar. More specifically, you should never use Stealth Rock in the face of Arceus-Normal (do you mean ekiller, since im pretty sure wallceus wins? specify) and Ho-Oh, two horribly dangerous threats which Groudon usually only has enough bulk to check once (and Ho-Oh it is a very risky switch-in to Ho-Oh regardless). Letting Groudon take a burn or sacrificing it just to set up Stealth Rock is also not advised if you still need Groudon to check something on the opponent's team, such as a Choice Scarf Zekrom. In general, don't play with Groudon too recklessly if you really need it to check something that might otherwise sweep your team.
Drought isn't something you can actively make use of most of the time due to its short duration, but Groudon's good synergy with Fire-types such as Ho-Oh can potentially give you time to abuse(replace with another word, never use in c&c) it. It can also be used to help slow Kyogre's onslaught if you are having trouble against it, but switching Groudon directly into Kyogre is generally a terrible idea unless you are strongly predicting Thunder or have no other choice. Drought can also backfire on Groudon by boosting enemy Fire-types (it boosts moves and helps fire-types, so change as appropriate) such as Ho-Oh and Mega Blaziken, so be careful.
Team Options
========
As Groudon is the one doing the supporting, it doesn't require too much support itself. However, it appreciates teammates that can handle powerful special attacks as it cannot take many of them, especially from Pokemon such as Kyogre and Kyurem-W. Palkia is a solid check to most variants of Kyogre, while Arceus-Water Water Arceus checks Kyurem-W and choiced Choiced Kyogre well. As a bonus, Arceus-Water Water Arceus is a solid check to Ho-Oh, which is very good to have if you are not running Stone Edge on Groudon. Blissey is a good catch-all special wall that can take many special attacks aimed at Groudon, and it can heal Groudon with Wish or cure burns it might have taken with Aromatherapy. Chansey and Sylveon can perform similar roles as well, but like Blissey, they can all be potentially sniped by Mega Gengar, so exercise caution when using them. Having something that can take Will-O-Wisp is also a very helpful teammate for Groudon; Ho-Oh is an excellent partner that can switch in on most Will-O-Wisp users such as support Arceus and threaten them with potentially sun-boosted Sacred Fires. Palkia can usually handle the support Arceus variants that Ho-Oh cannot,(AC) such as Arceus-Rock Arceus and Arceus-Water Arceus, particularly if it is equipped with Assault Vest.
Offensive Stealth Rock
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name: Offensive Stealth Rock
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Stone Edge / Dragon Tail
move 4: Dragon Tail / Toxic / Lava Plume
ability: Drought
item: Earth Plate / Life Orb
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant / Jolly
Moves
========
Although the move selection of this set is similar to that of the first set, this one it operates much differently. Earthquake, which is bolstered by Earth Plate and full investment into in Groudon's enormous Attack stat, deals tremendous damage to almost everything that doesn't resist it, cleanly OHKOing ; it cleanly OHKOes Dialga, a feat that few Pokemon can manage. It also deals over half to most support Arceus variants, pressuring them greatly if they try to come in and use Defog to clear away Stealth Rock. Stone Edge clips Ho-Oh's wings several times over and OHKOes 0 HP Yveltal after Stealth Rock damage, provided it has a Defense-lowering nature. It also does solid damage to Lugia, though it won't usually 2HKO. Dragon Tail is generally best in the last moveslot,(AC) as it allows Groudon to check Arceus-Normal(again, mention if ekiller; again, arceus>arceus-n) in a pinch while getting valuable chip damage on Giratina-O, who which otherwise walls this set completely. It can also be run over Stone Edge if your team has a solid answer to Ho-Oh. Toxic is a great move on this set,(AC) as it cripples Landorus-T and Lugia, who both of which can otherwise handle Groudon with ease. Lava Plume is also useful for hitting Skarmory and potentially burning Landorus-T, though it lacks the general utility of Toxic.
Another potential move that can be run on this set is Dragon Claw, which allows Groudon to break Giratina-O a lot easier, nailing 252 HP variants for a 2HKO after Stealth Rock damage. However, it is not as useful as the other moves and Giratina-O generally runs substantial Defense investment, so Dragon Claw is somewhat unreliable.
Set Details
========
The EVs maximize Groudon's Speed and attacking power, as the focus of the set is to make Groudon extremely threatening offensively. An Adamant nature with and Earth Plate is usually the preferred setup variant of this set, as it guarantees the OHKO on Dialga with Earthquake. A Jolly nature can also be used with Life Orb to retain the OHKO on Dialga while outpacing other Pokemon in the base 90 Speed group, such as Rayquaza, Kyurem-W, and Yveltal, assuming none of them also run a Speed-(AH)boosting nature. Life Orb significantly boosts Groudon's coverage moves as well, allowing for a clean OHKO on 0 HP Yveltal with Stone Edge. Groudon can even 2HKO Lugia with Life Orb-(AH)boosted Stone Edge, assuming you are Groudon is running an Adamant nature and Multiscale is not active. However, Life Orb's Orb recoil cuts into down Groudon's bulk significantly.
If you want a bulkier Groudon, you can drop the Spped Speed investment as needed. However, you should always run at least 76 Speed EVs, assuming an Adamant nature, in order to allow Groudon to outspeed 0 Speed Yveltal so that it can smack it with Stone Edge before getting wrecked by Foul Play. You can also take some EVs out of Attack, but you need at least 220 EVs to retain the OHKO on Dialga, assuming an Adamant nature and Earth Plate as the item.
Usage Tips
========
This Groudon set operates effectively on offensive teams that need a reliable Stealth Rock user that which can OHKO Dialga, is while being hard to set up on and able to check Arceus-Normal in a pinch. Unlike the support Groudon build, this set uses its offensive pressure and Speed rather than bulk to force switches and buy time to set up Stealth Rock, so be aggressive and don't play it like the first set. Rather, make use of Groudon's Speed, don't mindlessly spam (please try and use an alternative, as I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 'spam') Earthquake if your opponent has Ground immunities Pokemon that are immune to Ground, and don't let it take damage it doesn't need to take.
Team Options
========
Although Toxic will cripple most of them, this set can be checked fairly easily by physical walls that can handle Earthquake such as Multiscale Lugia, Giratina, Landorus-T, Skarmory, Gliscor, and Arceus-Grass Arceus. Yveltal switches in easily on all of these Pokemon and destroys them all with its powerful STAB attacks, making it a powerful offensive complement partner to Groudon who , which can return the favor by wrecking Tyranitar and special tanks such as Sylveon with Earthquake. Aside from that, this set retains the same general weaknesses of the first set: it is vulnerable to powerful special attackers, particularly Kyogre and Kyurem-W, and is crippled by burns. Ho-Oh, Arceus-Water Water Arceus, and Palkia remain great teammates for these reasons. Arcues-Rock Arceus is also useful since , as it counters Ho-Oh and checks Yveltal fairly well, which is extremely helpful if you decide not to not run Stone Edge on Groudon.
Rock Polish
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name: Rock Polish
move 1: Rock Polish
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Fire Punch / Swords Dance / Dragon Claw
ability: Drought
item: Life Orb
evs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
nature: Adamant
Moves
========
Rock Polish goes well with Groudon's huge Attack and mediocre Speed stat, turning it into a terrifying sweeper that which can easily blow apart teams with its powerful STAB Earthquake. Stone Edge crushes most of the Flying-types that are immune to Earthquake,(AC) such as Ho-Oh, Yveltal, and Shaymin-S, while also 2HKOing Lugia if Multiscale is not active intact. Fire Punch is the primary choice for the last move,(AC) as it beats many Pokemon that would otherwise wall Groudon, easily killing ; it easily KOes (maybe mention 2hko/ohko?) Skarmory, Bronzong, Arceus-Grass Grass Arceus, and Mega Scizor, while also being the strongest option against Landorus-T and Gliscor,(AC) thanks to the boost from Drought. On the other hand, Swords Dance pumps up Groudon's Attack stat even further and gives it greater power to bust through walls such as Lugia and Giratina. Groudon can potentially sweep entire teams early on in a match if it manages to nab a boost from both Rock Polish and Swords Dance, but this is difficult to do without support from Screens dual screens or significant bulk investment. If you really need Groudon to be able to break through Giratina-O by itself, Dragon Claw nabs an easy 2HKO on is an option for 2HKOing it, while also as well as hitting Palkia and Giratina slightly harder.
Set Details
========
Attack is maximized to allow Groudon to hit as hard as possible, and the choice of Adamant as the nature and Life Orb as the item supports this goal further. 176 Speed EVs allows allow Groudon to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion after a Rock Polish boost, with the remaining EVs going into HP to help Groudon set up more easily. If you desire more bulk, you can run less Speed investment: 136 Speed gets by lets it get past Choice Scarf Garchomp after a boost, 124 EVs outspeeds allows it to outspeed Choice Scarf Palkia, and with an investment of a mere 56 EVs, it outpaces positive-(AH)natured Choice Scarf base 90's 90s such as Kyogre and Zekrom.
There are a few more ways to customize Groudon if you are it is running Swords Dance. Lum Berry is a nice option: it allows Groudon to beat Giratina in conjunction with Swords Dance and can potentially allow it to set up a second boost in the face of support Arceus (formes?)that attempt to use Will-O-Wisp. However, Groudon cannot sweep as well with just a Rock Polish boost and without the added power from Life Orb. If you want to set up both Rock Polish and Swords Dance more consistently, you can run a very bulky spread: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe,(AC) with an Impish nature and Earth Plate as the item. This grants Groudon enough Speed to get by past Choice Scarf Palkia after a Rock Polish while giving it enough bulk to set up far more easily. However, it lacks a lot of immediate power compared to more offensive builds and isn't as efficient as a pure sweeper.
Usage Tips
========
Rock Polish Groudon works best a late-game sweeper, saved until it's main checks are weakened. Obviously, you shouldn't try to setup set up a Rock Polish until the opponent's answer to Rock Polish Groudon such as Lugia or Giratina is weakened. Swords Dance can give you Groudon more versatility against bulkier teams and a greater ability to break walls, making Groudon more useful early- or mid-game. However, even with Swords Dance, Groudon has trouble piercing through walls such as Gliscor, so make sure that such roadblocks are taken out first. Use your Groudon's offensive presence or (either change this to 'and' or add 'either' after 'Groudon's')solid physical bulk to buy a turn to set up if you can - (change to semi) trying to set up on a powerful special attack can possibly leave you Groudon dead or with too little health to sweep.
Team Options
========
This set has a very difficult time forcing its way through Gliscor, and it can still be walled by Skarmory, Arceus-Grass Grass Arceus, or Giratina depending on what moves it decides to run. Yveltal is still a great teammate to take advantage of and destroy all of these Pokemon. Ho-Oh is also an excellent partner if Groudon is not running Fire Punch, as it can take care of Skarmory and Arceus-Grass Arceus while softening up walls such as Lugia, Landorus-T, and Hippowdon with potential Sacred Fire burns. As a bonus, Ho-Oh handles Choice Scarf Shaymin-S with ease , who , which can outspeed Groudon after a Rock Polish and revenge kill it with Seed Flare, easily. Mixed Zekrom is also a notable teammate for this set,(AC) as it can lure in and destroy with a powerful Draco Meteor bulky Ground-types such as Gliscor and Hippowdon, which Groudon may have trouble beating by itself, with a powerful Draco Meteor. Zekrom is also an excellent choice against Skarmory.
Other Options
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Thunder Wave turns Groudon into a solid paralysis spreader, crippling many of its common switch-ins such as Kyogre, Yveltal, and support Arceus. It can also be combined with Swords Dance to enable Groudon to act as an effective Lugia lure, paralyzing it and then KOing with a boosted Stone Edge. Choice Band grants Groudon ludicrous power without any setup, and its wide type coverage limits what can safely come in on it. However, Groudon's STAB has many dangerous Pokemon immune to it(AC) such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal,(AC) that can take advantage of choice Choice-locked Earthquake easily, so Choice Band is rather risky to use. Hammer Arm is Groudon's most powerful option against Arceus-Normal and Mega Kangaskhan, but otherwise, it has limited utility. Overheat OHKOes even the specially bulky variants of Skarmory and does a nice chunk of damage to Gliscor, but it lacks the utility of Lava Plume and the consistency of Fire Punch if you really need a Fire-type attack.
Checks & Counters
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**Physical Walls**: Physically bulky Pokemon that can handle Earthquake make fine Groudon checks. Gliscor is the best of the lot: it is immune to Groudon's STAB and Toxic, takes little from its other moves, is immune to Toxic, and can easily Toxic stall Groudon to death. Skarmory and Bronzong wall any Groudon set lacking a Fire-type attack. Hippowdon and Landorus-T are bulky enough to tank most of Groudon's hits, but they need to watch out for Toxic and possible burns from Lava Plume. Lugia is faster than Groudon and can easily stall it out with Multiscale and Toxic, but it detests taking Toxic itself and won't enjoy a boosted Stone Edge either. Cresselia gets a special mention,(AC) as she hard-(AH)counters Groudon almost completely, with her only true fear being Toxic.
**Status**: Groudon absolutely detests burns,(AC) as it halves they halve its Attack and the passive damage wears it out quickly. Support Arceus (formes?), the Giratina formes, and Ho-Oh are all common burn spreaders Groudon must watch out for, though Ho-Oh won't enjoy Stone Edge even from even a burned Groudon. Toxic is also cripping to defensive sets and it puts offensive ones on a timer.
**Powerful Special Attackers**: Although Groudon's special bulk is by no means bad, it can't hold for out long against the vicious special attackers of Ubers. Although many special attackers have trouble switching directly in, Kyogre, Kyurem-W, Reshiram, and Shaymin-S are particularly dangerous as they can easily OHKO Groudon with their STAB attacks. Mega Gengar gets a special mention, as it can trap and eliminate a weakened Groudon, especially if it has Energy Ball. However, Groudon usually has to be significantly weakened for Mega Gengar to finish it off reliably, lest it be OHKOed in return by Earthquake.
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Groudon is a powerful and versatile threat, boasting the ability to sweep efficiently with boosting moves in Rock Polish and/or and Swords Dance, or to support the team with Stealth Rock, phazing, or status. Its high Defense allows it to act as a check to many prominent physical threats,(AC) such as Arceus-Normal Arceus, Zekrom, Terrakion, and Garchomp, and its enormous Attack paired with STAB Earthquake make makes it a lethal offensive threat as well. Drought is something else Groudon can use effectively, making it useful for temporarily pumping up the power of Fire-types such as Ho-Oh (it powers up fire-type MOVES; so maybe say that and say ho-oh's sacred fire? or say that it is good for fire types bc x, y, and z). However, it is held back by its modest Special Defense and Speed stats, and the nerf of Drought in Generation 6 VI somewhat lessens Groudon's supporting capabilities. Nevertheless, Groudon remains the potent force it has always been for the past three generations in the Ubers metagame.
Support
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name: Support
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Stone Edge / Lava Plume
move 4: Toxic / Dragon Tail / Roar
ability: Drought
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
nature: Impish
Moves
========
Earthquake is a powerful STAB move that hits hard thanks to Groudon's naturally high base Attack, despite having no investment. It is mandatory for properly dealing with threats such as Zekrom. Stealth Rock is a very useful support move for Groudon: it is one of the few viable users of the move in Ubers, and Groudon's bulk and typing usually gives give it ample chances to come in and set it up in battle. Stone Edge is very helpful,(AC) as it allows Groudon to OHKO Ho-Oh and significantly damage Yveltal, both of which are dangerous threats that could otherwise freely come in on Groudon. If these threats aren't of concern to your team, Lava Plume is also a solid option for allowing Groudon to KO Skarmory easily, who which can otherwise switch freely in on Groudon and use Defog to remove Stealth Rock, easily, while also hitting Landorus-T and potentially crippling it with a burn. However, Lava Plume is not recommended for use if Toxic is run in the last moveslot, as it still cripples Landorus-T and has more general use (does the last word of this sentence mean 'utility'?).
Speaking of the last moveslot, the choice between Toxic, Dragon Tail, and Roar can be difficult and is oftentimes dependent on what is more important to your team. Toxic pressures Defog users such as support Arceus (if you are referring to formes here, say 'Arceus formes' as arceus means arceus-n),(AC) so they can't freely switch in on Groudon, and it cripples many of Groudon's other checks,(AC) such as Landorus-T and Lugia. Dragon Tail allows Groudon to phaze dangerous threats such as Arceus-Normal Arceus and Mega Mewtwo X, and is generally preferred to over Roar since , as it gets valuable chip damage on enemy Pokemon and is not blocked by Taunt. However, Roar has perfect accuracy and phazes Substitute users such as Ho-Oh, although Groudon will still need Stone Edge to check it.
Set Details
========
You will always want to fully invest in Groudon's bulk with the set, usually maximizing its Defense so that it can check physical threats as needed. Leftovers is the preferred item in most cases,(AC) as it is Groudon's only form of recovery. Lum Berry is also an option,(AC) as it gives Groudon one-time status protection and is useful against support Arceus (formes?), Ho-Oh, and lead Darkrai, but losing the recovery of Leftovers recovery is usually not worth it. Heat Rock can be used if you're running a dedicated sun team to extend Drought's duration to 8 turns rather than 5 (spell out these numbers), but this is only recommended if you are using sun-(AH)reliant Pokemon such as Mega Charizard X or Mega Houndoom. It also doesn't help that most Chlorophyll sweepers in Ubers are not worth using even if Drought was were still permanent.
An alternate alternative EV spread for Groudon is 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD,(RC) with a Careful nature. This makes Groudon surprisingly durable on the special side, making it a better check to mixed Zekrom, support Dialga, and Arceus-Electric Electric Arceus. Specially defensive groudon Groudon can also take two Lustrous Orb-(AH)boosted Spacial Rends from Palkia at full health, making it useful as an emergency check. However, specially defensive Groudon is not nearly as good at checking the physical threats it is otherwise meant to.
Usage Tips
========
Groudon can switch easily into physical attackers such as Zekrom, Tyranitar, Mega Lucario, Terrakion, and most forms of Swords Dance Arceus formes, as well as bulky Steel-types such as Aegislash and Jirachi, giving it great opportunities to set up Stealth Rock, phaze, or spread status. It fits best on balanced or stall teams that need a physically bulky Pokemon that which can set up Stealth Rock reliably. It can work on more offensively oriented teams, but support Groudon isn't as good at maintaining momentum,(AC) so it would be better to stick to the more offensively inclined sets.
Deciding when to use Stealth Rock takes a bit more care than it may might seem at first glance, as taking a turn to use the move can cost you a lot of momentum. Save it for when you predict the opponent to switch out or are in against something that doesn't threaten Groudon too much such as Tyranitar. More specifically, you should never use Stealth Rock in the face of Arceus-Normal (do you mean ekiller, since im pretty sure wallceus wins? specify) and Ho-Oh, two horribly dangerous threats which Groudon usually only has enough bulk to check once (and Ho-Oh it is a very risky switch-in to Ho-Oh regardless). Letting Groudon take a burn or sacrificing it just to set up Stealth Rock is also not advised if you still need Groudon to check something on the opponent's team, such as a Choice Scarf Zekrom. In general, don't play with Groudon too recklessly if you really need it to check something that might otherwise sweep your team.
Drought isn't something you can actively make use of most of the time due to its short duration, but Groudon's good synergy with Fire-types such as Ho-Oh can potentially give you time to abuse(replace with another word, never use in c&c) it. It can also be used to help slow Kyogre's onslaught if you are having trouble against it, but switching Groudon directly into Kyogre is generally a terrible idea unless you are strongly predicting Thunder or have no other choice. Drought can also backfire on Groudon by boosting enemy Fire-types (it boosts moves and helps fire-types, so change as appropriate) such as Ho-Oh and Mega Blaziken, so be careful.
Team Options
========
As Groudon is the one doing the supporting, it doesn't require too much support itself. However, it appreciates teammates that can handle powerful special attacks as it cannot take many of them, especially from Pokemon such as Kyogre and Kyurem-W. Palkia is a solid check to most variants of Kyogre, while Arceus-Water Water Arceus checks Kyurem-W and choiced Choiced Kyogre well. As a bonus, Arceus-Water Water Arceus is a solid check to Ho-Oh, which is very good to have if you are not running Stone Edge on Groudon. Blissey is a good catch-all special wall that can take many special attacks aimed at Groudon, and it can heal Groudon with Wish or cure burns it might have taken with Aromatherapy. Chansey and Sylveon can perform similar roles as well, but like Blissey, they can all be potentially sniped by Mega Gengar, so exercise caution when using them. Having something that can take Will-O-Wisp is also a very helpful teammate for Groudon; Ho-Oh is an excellent partner that can switch in on most Will-O-Wisp users such as support Arceus and threaten them with potentially sun-boosted Sacred Fires. Palkia can usually handle the support Arceus variants that Ho-Oh cannot,(AC) such as Arceus-Rock Arceus and Arceus-Water Arceus, particularly if it is equipped with Assault Vest.
Offensive Stealth Rock
########
name: Offensive Stealth Rock
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Stone Edge / Dragon Tail
move 4: Dragon Tail / Toxic / Lava Plume
ability: Drought
item: Earth Plate / Life Orb
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant / Jolly
Moves
========
Although the move selection of this set is similar to that of the first set, this one it operates much differently. Earthquake, which is bolstered by Earth Plate and full investment into in Groudon's enormous Attack stat, deals tremendous damage to almost everything that doesn't resist it, cleanly OHKOing ; it cleanly OHKOes Dialga, a feat that few Pokemon can manage. It also deals over half to most support Arceus variants, pressuring them greatly if they try to come in and use Defog to clear away Stealth Rock. Stone Edge clips Ho-Oh's wings several times over and OHKOes 0 HP Yveltal after Stealth Rock damage, provided it has a Defense-lowering nature. It also does solid damage to Lugia, though it won't usually 2HKO. Dragon Tail is generally best in the last moveslot,(AC) as it allows Groudon to check Arceus-Normal(again, mention if ekiller; again, arceus>arceus-n) in a pinch while getting valuable chip damage on Giratina-O, who which otherwise walls this set completely. It can also be run over Stone Edge if your team has a solid answer to Ho-Oh. Toxic is a great move on this set,(AC) as it cripples Landorus-T and Lugia, who both of which can otherwise handle Groudon with ease. Lava Plume is also useful for hitting Skarmory and potentially burning Landorus-T, though it lacks the general utility of Toxic.
Another potential move that can be run on this set is Dragon Claw, which allows Groudon to break Giratina-O a lot easier, nailing 252 HP variants for a 2HKO after Stealth Rock damage. However, it is not as useful as the other moves and Giratina-O generally runs substantial Defense investment, so Dragon Claw is somewhat unreliable.
Set Details
========
The EVs maximize Groudon's Speed and attacking power, as the focus of the set is to make Groudon extremely threatening offensively. An Adamant nature with and Earth Plate is usually the preferred setup variant of this set, as it guarantees the OHKO on Dialga with Earthquake. A Jolly nature can also be used with Life Orb to retain the OHKO on Dialga while outpacing other Pokemon in the base 90 Speed group, such as Rayquaza, Kyurem-W, and Yveltal, assuming none of them also run a Speed-(AH)boosting nature. Life Orb significantly boosts Groudon's coverage moves as well, allowing for a clean OHKO on 0 HP Yveltal with Stone Edge. Groudon can even 2HKO Lugia with Life Orb-(AH)boosted Stone Edge, assuming you are Groudon is running an Adamant nature and Multiscale is not active. However, Life Orb's Orb recoil cuts into down Groudon's bulk significantly.
If you want a bulkier Groudon, you can drop the Spped Speed investment as needed. However, you should always run at least 76 Speed EVs, assuming an Adamant nature, in order to allow Groudon to outspeed 0 Speed Yveltal so that it can smack it with Stone Edge before getting wrecked by Foul Play. You can also take some EVs out of Attack, but you need at least 220 EVs to retain the OHKO on Dialga, assuming an Adamant nature and Earth Plate as the item.
Usage Tips
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This Groudon set operates effectively on offensive teams that need a reliable Stealth Rock user that which can OHKO Dialga, is while being hard to set up on and able to check Arceus-Normal in a pinch. Unlike the support Groudon build, this set uses its offensive pressure and Speed rather than bulk to force switches and buy time to set up Stealth Rock, so be aggressive and don't play it like the first set. Rather, make use of Groudon's Speed, don't mindlessly spam (please try and use an alternative, as I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 'spam') Earthquake if your opponent has Ground immunities Pokemon that are immune to Ground, and don't let it take damage it doesn't need to take.
Team Options
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Although Toxic will cripple most of them, this set can be checked fairly easily by physical walls that can handle Earthquake such as Multiscale Lugia, Giratina, Landorus-T, Skarmory, Gliscor, and Arceus-Grass Arceus. Yveltal switches in easily on all of these Pokemon and destroys them all with its powerful STAB attacks, making it a powerful offensive complement partner to Groudon who , which can return the favor by wrecking Tyranitar and special tanks such as Sylveon with Earthquake. Aside from that, this set retains the same general weaknesses of the first set: it is vulnerable to powerful special attackers, particularly Kyogre and Kyurem-W, and is crippled by burns. Ho-Oh, Arceus-Water Water Arceus, and Palkia remain great teammates for these reasons. Arcues-Rock Arceus is also useful since , as it counters Ho-Oh and checks Yveltal fairly well, which is extremely helpful if you decide not to not run Stone Edge on Groudon.
Rock Polish
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name: Rock Polish
move 1: Rock Polish
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Fire Punch / Swords Dance / Dragon Claw
ability: Drought
item: Life Orb
evs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
nature: Adamant
Moves
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Rock Polish goes well with Groudon's huge Attack and mediocre Speed stat, turning it into a terrifying sweeper that which can easily blow apart teams with its powerful STAB Earthquake. Stone Edge crushes most of the Flying-types that are immune to Earthquake,(AC) such as Ho-Oh, Yveltal, and Shaymin-S, while also 2HKOing Lugia if Multiscale is not active intact. Fire Punch is the primary choice for the last move,(AC) as it beats many Pokemon that would otherwise wall Groudon, easily killing ; it easily KOes (maybe mention 2hko/ohko?) Skarmory, Bronzong, Arceus-Grass Grass Arceus, and Mega Scizor, while also being the strongest option against Landorus-T and Gliscor,(AC) thanks to the boost from Drought. On the other hand, Swords Dance pumps up Groudon's Attack stat even further and gives it greater power to bust through walls such as Lugia and Giratina. Groudon can potentially sweep entire teams early on in a match if it manages to nab a boost from both Rock Polish and Swords Dance, but this is difficult to do without support from Screens dual screens or significant bulk investment. If you really need Groudon to be able to break through Giratina-O by itself, Dragon Claw nabs an easy 2HKO on is an option for 2HKOing it, while also as well as hitting Palkia and Giratina slightly harder.
Set Details
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Attack is maximized to allow Groudon to hit as hard as possible, and the choice of Adamant as the nature and Life Orb as the item supports this goal further. 176 Speed EVs allows allow Groudon to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion after a Rock Polish boost, with the remaining EVs going into HP to help Groudon set up more easily. If you desire more bulk, you can run less Speed investment: 136 Speed gets by lets it get past Choice Scarf Garchomp after a boost, 124 EVs outspeeds allows it to outspeed Choice Scarf Palkia, and with an investment of a mere 56 EVs, it outpaces positive-(AH)natured Choice Scarf base 90's 90s such as Kyogre and Zekrom.
There are a few more ways to customize Groudon if you are it is running Swords Dance. Lum Berry is a nice option: it allows Groudon to beat Giratina in conjunction with Swords Dance and can potentially allow it to set up a second boost in the face of support Arceus (formes?)that attempt to use Will-O-Wisp. However, Groudon cannot sweep as well with just a Rock Polish boost and without the added power from Life Orb. If you want to set up both Rock Polish and Swords Dance more consistently, you can run a very bulky spread: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe,(AC) with an Impish nature and Earth Plate as the item. This grants Groudon enough Speed to get by past Choice Scarf Palkia after a Rock Polish while giving it enough bulk to set up far more easily. However, it lacks a lot of immediate power compared to more offensive builds and isn't as efficient as a pure sweeper.
Usage Tips
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Rock Polish Groudon works best a late-game sweeper, saved until it's main checks are weakened. Obviously, you shouldn't try to setup set up a Rock Polish until the opponent's answer to Rock Polish Groudon such as Lugia or Giratina is weakened. Swords Dance can give you Groudon more versatility against bulkier teams and a greater ability to break walls, making Groudon more useful early- or mid-game. However, even with Swords Dance, Groudon has trouble piercing through walls such as Gliscor, so make sure that such roadblocks are taken out first. Use your Groudon's offensive presence or (either change this to 'and' or add 'either' after 'Groudon's')solid physical bulk to buy a turn to set up if you can - (change to semi) trying to set up on a powerful special attack can possibly leave you Groudon dead or with too little health to sweep.
Team Options
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This set has a very difficult time forcing its way through Gliscor, and it can still be walled by Skarmory, Arceus-Grass Grass Arceus, or Giratina depending on what moves it decides to run. Yveltal is still a great teammate to take advantage of and destroy all of these Pokemon. Ho-Oh is also an excellent partner if Groudon is not running Fire Punch, as it can take care of Skarmory and Arceus-Grass Arceus while softening up walls such as Lugia, Landorus-T, and Hippowdon with potential Sacred Fire burns. As a bonus, Ho-Oh handles Choice Scarf Shaymin-S with ease , who , which can outspeed Groudon after a Rock Polish and revenge kill it with Seed Flare, easily. Mixed Zekrom is also a notable teammate for this set,(AC) as it can lure in and destroy with a powerful Draco Meteor bulky Ground-types such as Gliscor and Hippowdon, which Groudon may have trouble beating by itself, with a powerful Draco Meteor. Zekrom is also an excellent choice against Skarmory.
Other Options
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Thunder Wave turns Groudon into a solid paralysis spreader, crippling many of its common switch-ins such as Kyogre, Yveltal, and support Arceus. It can also be combined with Swords Dance to enable Groudon to act as an effective Lugia lure, paralyzing it and then KOing with a boosted Stone Edge. Choice Band grants Groudon ludicrous power without any setup, and its wide type coverage limits what can safely come in on it. However, Groudon's STAB has many dangerous Pokemon immune to it(AC) such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal,(AC) that can take advantage of choice Choice-locked Earthquake easily, so Choice Band is rather risky to use. Hammer Arm is Groudon's most powerful option against Arceus-Normal and Mega Kangaskhan, but otherwise, it has limited utility. Overheat OHKOes even the specially bulky variants of Skarmory and does a nice chunk of damage to Gliscor, but it lacks the utility of Lava Plume and the consistency of Fire Punch if you really need a Fire-type attack.
Checks & Counters
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**Physical Walls**: Physically bulky Pokemon that can handle Earthquake make fine Groudon checks. Gliscor is the best of the lot: it is immune to Groudon's STAB and Toxic, takes little from its other moves, is immune to Toxic, and can easily Toxic stall Groudon to death. Skarmory and Bronzong wall any Groudon set lacking a Fire-type attack. Hippowdon and Landorus-T are bulky enough to tank most of Groudon's hits, but they need to watch out for Toxic and possible burns from Lava Plume. Lugia is faster than Groudon and can easily stall it out with Multiscale and Toxic, but it detests taking Toxic itself and won't enjoy a boosted Stone Edge either. Cresselia gets a special mention,(AC) as she hard-(AH)counters Groudon almost completely, with her only true fear being Toxic.
**Status**: Groudon absolutely detests burns,(AC) as it halves they halve its Attack and the passive damage wears it out quickly. Support Arceus (formes?), the Giratina formes, and Ho-Oh are all common burn spreaders Groudon must watch out for, though Ho-Oh won't enjoy Stone Edge even from even a burned Groudon. Toxic is also cripping to defensive sets and it puts offensive ones on a timer.
**Powerful Special Attackers**: Although Groudon's special bulk is by no means bad, it can't hold for out long against the vicious special attackers of Ubers. Although many special attackers have trouble switching directly in, Kyogre, Kyurem-W, Reshiram, and Shaymin-S are particularly dangerous as they can easily OHKO Groudon with their STAB attacks. Mega Gengar gets a special mention, as it can trap and eliminate a weakened Groudon, especially if it has Energy Ball. However, Groudon usually has to be significantly weakened for Mega Gengar to finish it off reliably, lest it be OHKOed in return by Earthquake.
sorry Redew this was way too long
i almost didnt placeholder but was confident i would be able to be on for long enough (OF COURSE real life snipes me)
[type] arceus>arceus-[type]
gp 2/2
The tagging didn't work because you never tagged me silly :P
I'll fix it soon, any recommendations for splitting it up?
They pretty much all beat Groudon in the same fashion (come in on Earthquake or other physical move and hit it with Toxic), I don't really see a need to split it up further when they all use the same strategy to beat Groudon. The only other one I'd consider splitting is Landorus-T because of Intimidate and he can just spam Earthquake to kill Groudon.
I can try making it more concise if you'd like though.
The point though is that the readers see what mons they can add just by glancing. Putting physically bulky walls requires them to read more to find out exactly which physically bulky walls work. Seeing as those physically bulky walls that check Groudon are fairly specific, it's worth mentioning every one individually.
I actually talked to SDS about this in a conversation:
All the Pokemon in the physical walls section check Groudon the same way: they are immune to or have enough bulk to tank EQ, don't mind the other common coverage moves, and use Toxic or healing + STAB move to beat it. I can make it less wordy so it doesn't look as cluttered or split Lando/Hippo but I feel Gliscor/Skarm/Lugia should stay together at least since they use the most similar strategies to beat Groudon.SDS convo said:
Oh, it looks odd with guys like Cresselia that do the exact same thing being outside of that group. I might have misunderstood SDS about it cause it still seems off to me to force the readers to actually read the descriptions to find out which mons you are talking about instead of just glancing. (I mean isn't it obvious that you use physically bulky walls? and the CC section is supposed to give you a list of which ones work? I might have read more into what the idea behind this than was needed.)
I put Cresselia by herself since she is basically Groudon's best counter and is rather uncommon (and I think she usually uses Dual Screens + Lunar Dance sets anyway)
You may have read too much into this, perhaps you should check with some other people again?
Are a Heat Rock or Eject Button worth using for a sun team?
Heat Rock is mentioned in the support set, Eject Button is inferior to Heat Rock in terms of sun support so that won't be mentioned.
Sorry, slight nitpick, but I assume you mean "your Groudon is running Adamant...." Hope it's not too late
Fixed.
Hey Fireburn, I think you should remove the mentions of Terrakion and Garchomp as prominent threats in the overview lol
also pls:
also pls:
(btw, I also think it's worth mentioning that it can't be stopped by prankster twave in an emergency)
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