Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Vert]

252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 268-320 (64.7 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
while
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Tornadus-T: 254-300 (84.9 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
and
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Tornadus-T: 51-60 (17 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO

Tornadus-t is not a great check to conk since it mostly runs AV. You can't switch in on an attack and you have to rely on the super reliable hurricane to do any real damage.
While Hurricane does have a good shot at killing, most people really don't wanna risk hurricane when you have a much more reliable option in air slash.
If you run hurricane, you're most reliable move might be superpower (not good) knock off (not too great) or u-turn (no). None of those should be your go-to move if you want to do damage. The chance of hurricane even hitting twice is 49%, do you really want to rely on THOSE odds? Even if hurricane hits, you have to rely on one of the other moves mentioned to kill your target, and it might not!

Ultimately, hurricane is pretty irrelevant in comparison to air slash, it shouldn't even be brought up outside of rain.
Think of it this way:
If alakazam had access to aura sphere, do you think focus blast would see much usage? Would focus blast even be considered a viable option when something as reliable as aura sphere exists? probably not :/

Jukain, so you want A- rank, okay, but Tornadus-T needs to be placed somewhere in A rank territory. Tornadus-T is very good.

Srn, you said that Zam would use Aura Sphere > Focus Blast, well, you're forgetting that's not its main STAB move. Hurricane + Air Slash together form something where you can choose a reliable STAB move not a coverage move which you almost always use to hit things SE. In fact, Conkeldurr cannot switch into the most common moveset in Air Slash / Focus Blast / Knock Off / U-turn so I don't see why your giving that calc. Can't switch into Focus Blast since Air Slash will ko next turn and Knock Off takes away AV allowing you to maul it w/ air slash. U-turn on it and you can gain a FREE TURN which is one of the reasons its really good while regen heals it up. Really fast U-turn makes it good. Tornadus-T can't switch into conk? yes, thats true but if its weakened enough, Air Slash kills. IDK what your thinking but a median of 72% damage is alot.

Life Orb Air Slash can't be switched into easily without suffering a 2HKO by it or Air Slash + Coverage Move. It then heals up any damage it took like recoil or Stealth Rock. U-turn + Regenerator gives it another reason why its so good and Knock Off buff makes it really good too. It can even set-up its own rain with the free turns it creates. Too high for B+ Rank imo.

 

[Srn]

Jukain, so you want A- rank, okay, but Tornadus-T needs to be placed somewhere in A rank territory. Tornadus-T is very good.

Srn, you said that Zam would use Aura Sphere > Focus Blast, well, you're forgetting that's not its main STAB move. Hurricane + Air Slash together form something where you can choose a reliable STAB move not a coverage move which you almost always use to hit things SE. In fact, Conkeldurr cannot switch into the most common moveset in Air Slash / Focus Blast / Knock Off / U-turn so I don't see why your giving that calc. Can't switch into Focus Blast since Air Slash will ko next turn and Knock Off takes away AV allowing you to maul it w/ air slash. U-turn on it and you can gain a FREE TURN which is one of the reasons its really good while regen heals it up. Really fast U-turn makes it good. Tornadus-T can't switch into conk? yes, thats true but if its weakened enough, Air Slash kills. IDK what your thinking but a median of 72% damage is alot.

Life Orb Air Slash can't be switched into easily without suffering a 2HKO by it or Air Slash + Coverage Move. It then heals up any damage it took like recoil or Stealth Rock. U-turn + Regenerator gives it another reason why its so good and Knock Off buff makes it really good too. It can even set-up its own rain with the free turns it creates. Too high for B+ Rank imo.

It doesn't matter if aura sphere is stab or not on zam, it would use aura sphere over focus blast in a heartbeat.

Also, I was mentioning how Torn-t can't switch into conk, not the other way around. You mentioned in your previous post that torn-t could switch into conk and threaten it out, I just wanted to prove that tidbit wrong. Of course conk isn't switching in on a torn-t lol
A median is 72% damage is indeed a lot, but this is mitigated somewhat by drain punch. Also, I would definitely let my conk be weakened to kill a torn-t, any day.

But I'm not hating on torn-t in anyway! I love him to death, I've used a specs torn-t in the rain and damn it was so much fun.
But I think torn-t without rain doesn't deserve to be above pokemon like ferrothorn, zapdos, and chansey. It's good, but not that good.

 

[Anty]

You can 2HKO azumarill with a Head Smash mixed set, as well as Sylveon and several other special walls that resist Superpower. While it cripples Hydreigon, you open yourself up to sweep with Dark, Fighting, or Dragon moves from another pokemon with a set like this. It's situational, but the potential is there, Flash cannon is actually a terrible idea in OU because the only OU fairies weak to it are specially defensive. Iron Tail is also terrible, that accuracy is meh. I'm not saying any Hydreigon set can accomplish this, but it can be set up to 2HKO the entire metagame, and is only useful with a mixed set if you are using it specifically to bait out special walls and fairies. Its lack of popularity means such sets are rare, but that makes it even more useful. If you have problems with Azumarill specifically, I don't see what the issue with Charge Beam is--you bait out Azurmarill, take a resisted aqua jet, and end up with a +2 Hydreigon. Unlike Mega-Gardevoir, a "mixed" attacker in the B-tier, it can hold a Scarf. In fact, it outspeeds most of the B tier. Even if it's not B, it's clearly more viable in OU than several pokemon already tiered, and I wish people would suggest lower tiers than I do instead of just discounting what I say.

Even if you have charge beam you lose to azumarril. Why would they lock themselves into aqua jet, if they are predicting, theyll at least go for waterfall
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Charge Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 166-198 (41 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 1168-1380 (359.3 - 424.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Head smash is rediculously bad. You lose a coverage move and you worsen your 4mss. You need draco, fire blast, then 2 of: u-urn, eq, flash cannon, dark pulse or roost. Head smash isnt even viable.
252 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 260-307 (65.9 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Then you get ohkod back

Hydreigon has no place in this meta and as a mixed dragon, there isnt much point of using it over mence, who is C rank. This thing should be d-rank, if even ranked at all.

 

[Vert]

It doesn't matter if aura sphere is stab or not on zam, it would use aura sphere over focus blast in a heartbeat.

Also, I was mentioning how Torn-t can't switch into conk, not the other way around. You mentioned in your previous post that torn-t could switch into conk and threaten it out, I just wanted to prove that tidbit wrong. Of course conk isn't switching in on a torn-t lol
A median is 72% damage is indeed a lot, but this is mitigated somewhat by drain punch. Also, I would definitely let my conk be weakened to kill a torn-t, any day.

But I'm not hating on torn-t in anyway! I love him to death, I've used a specs torn-t in the rain and damn it was so much fun.
But I think torn-t without rain doesn't deserve to be above pokemon like ferrothorn, zapdos, and chansey. It's good, but not that good.

Yea, but I'll tell you the difference between STAB and no STAB.

Let's look at Terrakion for example. It only needs Close Combat / Stone Edge / Earthquake as staples and the last two go for either Quick Attack or Rock Slide. You run Rock Slide + Stone Edge as power vs accuracy draws come very useful in game. The same thing goes for Torn-T. Hurricane is used against bulkier threats where the accuracy isn't much of a problem, but Air Slash is more reliable. Tornadus-T has a moveslot open for either Knock Off, Rain dance, or Hurricane so this is what I mean. I would use Aura Sphere over F-Blast on zam anyday too, but hat if Zam got a 120 bp Psyshock with 75% accuracy say? I would definetely run both that move and Psyshock on the same moveset with the last two for coverage. Reliability + Power combos function well and are seen occasionally on certain PKMN.

I read your post more carefully and Tornadus-T can actually switch into Mach Punch, Drain Punch if guts since it doesn't get iron fist boost, but can't switch into Ice Punch and Knock Off. ITs 50/50 draw imo.

Tornadus-T shouldn't even be compared to Chansey, Ferrothorn, or Zapdos. Tornadus-T is an offensive threat, not a defensive one.

 

[Eievui-Nymphia]

Is Hydreigon getting ignored as an addition because it hasn't been discussed enough? It was claimed that anything not added was deemed not worthy, but Hydreigon is clearly better than D-ranked pokemon. I would like to think that being a pokemon that can 2HKO anything in OU is enough to be worthy of B rank. If you don't believe me, play with the calculator--I'll be very surprised if you can find anything it can't be built to 2HKO. As the BW OU analysis says, "Hydreigon belongs to the special group of Pokemon that can boast they possess no true counters: they potentially carry a move that can OHKO or 2HKO any Pokemon in the game, and as such are virtually impossible to switch into." This still holds true with the introduction of fairies. The only fairy it isn't able to hit especially hard is Azumarill, but it can still be built to 2HKO Sitrus Berry Azumarill after Stealth Rocks.

While most people run Hydreigon to cover Aegislash or other similar pokemons' weaknesses, it can be used to bait and eliminate special walls with a mixed set and still hitting friggin hard with Draco Meteor and Dark Pulse. While not as fast as Latios, it has a much wider movepool, able to hit every single pokemon that resists Dragon not named Azumarill for super-effective damage stronger than Hidden Power! It can even hit the specially defensive ones with a supereffective physical move. Someone may point to 4x Fairy weakness as a disqualifier, but Fairy attacks are rarer than Ice, the usual dragon 4x weakness and a very common Hidden Power choice. On top of that, Hydreigon can 2HKO plenty of steel types now with Dark Pulse, and OHKO several with Fire Blast, while Latios is still stuck with HP Fire!

It can't go anything, see this
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 117-140 (32.5 - 38.8%) -- 5.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Use that move in OU when the Top 8 in Pokemon Online (Showdown is not expect to be much different) resist it. Also, position 11, 13, 15, 21, 22, 23, etc.
If you don't decide to use that attack, your best bet is
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 81-96 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery



But Florges is outclassed by Sylveon? But it has some tiny bit more of SpD and a bit more speed (irrelevant to Hydreigon).
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 133-159 (33.7 - 40.3%) -- 35.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 91-108 (23 - 27.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Moonblast has this chance of OHKOing Hydreigon without Rocks:
4 SpA Sylveon Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 484-576 (148.9 - 177.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[adman2]

Wouldn't Sylveon be using Hyper Voice rather than Moonblast, since Pixilate would increase its power and it goes through Substitutes?

Still, interesting calculations (not that ANYONE should leave Hydreigon in on a specially defensive Fairy).

 

[TCTphantom]

Nominating Rotom H for B Rank

I honestly think that this thing has a place on more offensive teams than Rotom W. Rotom H, while losing the useful water resistance Wash has, gains a resistance to Grass Fairy, and more importantly Bug, allowing it to take on U Turners better. In return, it gains a Stealth Rock Weakness and a Water Weakness. Last Gen, when Rain was dominant and Stealth Rock was the elephant in the room, this was a death sentence. However, the stars truly smile on our brave little toaster. Perhaps most important to Heat-tom was Defog. Defog alone aids astoundingly in the removal of hazards. An easy way to remove hazards is great already, but there are several good Defoggers available to cover its few weaknesses, such as Lati@s to handle waters and Scizor to handle Rock types. Excadrill coming down also provides a great spinner to aid in hazard removal. Rain's near removal from OU also helps Heat immensely, as his Overheat is a more potent tool and Waters no longer reign supreme. Heat can fill any role Wash can to a great extent, but has one extra bonus; that of a status absorber. The ability to ignore Thunder Wave and Will o Wisp makes Rotom a blessing to offensive teams, as these statuses can cripple a sweeper. Rotom even can help check or counter several dangerous threats, such as Genesect, MegaZardY, Aegislash, MegaPinsir, and Talonflame. Overall, I feel these shining qualities make Heat Tom deserve a higher rank...

 

[Eievui-Nymphia]

I decided to use Moonblast because some people still use it (knowing what exactly Pixilate works and that Eevee learn that attack from BW2 are more rare than picking Moonblast from it's level up movepool) and to show that even with Moonblast OHKOs Hydreigon.


In Pokemon Online UU the dragons are as foolows:
Latias 12,9%
Salamence 12,5%
Zygarde 5,16%
Hydreigon 3,89% (which this usage, it goes LU)
Kingdra 3,34%
Noivern 2,84%
Haxorus 2,48%

And the Fairies:
Sylveon 18,9%
Gardevoir 12,5%
Florges 3,92%

Off-topic: UU PO doesn't deserve the name of Underused: There are the BST of the Top pokemon in order
525/600/580/600/518 (618)/600/700/580/500 (600)/510/450*/580/440*/465 (565)/410 **(510**)/600/468/580/500/530 (630)/423**/485/600/534/520/500/600/530 (630)/600/580/..

*Can use Eviolite.
** Can have the Ability Pure Power/Huge power

 

[Srn]

Yea, but I'll tell you the difference between STAB and no STAB.

Let's look at Terrakion for example. It only needs Close Combat / Stone Edge / Earthquake as staples and the last two go for either Quick Attack or Rock Slide. You run Rock Slide + Stone Edge as power vs accuracy draws come very useful in game. The same thing goes for Torn-T. Hurricane is used against bulkier threats where the accuracy isn't much of a problem, but Air Slash is more reliable. Tornadus-T has a moveslot open for either Knock Off, Rain dance, or Hurricane so this is what I mean. I would use Aura Sphere over F-Blast on zam anyday too, but hat if Zam got a 120 bp Psyshock with 75% accuracy say? I would definetely run both that move and Psyshock on the same moveset with the last two for coverage. Reliability + Power combos function well and are seen occasionally on certain PKMN.

I read your post more carefully and Tornadus-T can actually switch into Mach Punch, Drain Punch if guts since it doesn't get iron fist boost, but can't switch into Ice Punch and Knock Off. ITs 50/50 draw imo.

Tornadus-T shouldn't even be compared to Chansey, Ferrothorn, or Zapdos. Tornadus-T is an offensive threat, not a defensive one.

I compared it to those guys because they are also in the B+ rank, not because they're defensive threats. They, in my opinion, do their job better than torn-t does, which is why I'd say B for torn-t.

I can see why you would do power+reliability combos, but they really only work for pokemon like terrakion, which can function with more or less just two moves. Terrakion is a bad example to compare to because all it literally needs is stone edge and close combat, you often have free moveslots to mess around with. Pokemon like zam and torn-t do not have such luxuries. Alakazam does NOT function with just two moves, it needs all the coverage it can get, your hypothetical 120bp psyshock with 75 acc wouldn't see too much use because Zam is a revenge killer! It certainly cannot risk missing that powerful move if your team is in danger of being swept by a lucario!
The same applies for torn-t. It has much better options like the ones you have stated than air slash+hurricane. Knock off, u-turn, rain dance, focus blast, you yourself have listed the several options he has access to. These moves make him better and he would rather have all of these than not.
I personally just don't understand the logic behind running reliable+power combos. I'd rather hit a weak hit than not hit at all, and with my luck, I personally would never run such moves.

And on the torn-t switching in part, you would have to switch-in, take knock off (bad), drain punch (doesn't care) or mach punch (doesn't care) but its really risky to switch torn-t in on a conk in general when the user COULD predict it and go for ice punch. Even if you get in safely, what have you accomplished? Assuming you're not running hurricane, because you shouldn't unless you're in the rain, what advantage does it put you in? As we have established, air slash doesn't ko, and with the prior damage you took from switching in, ice punch is enough to ko! Sure, you can just u-turn out, but its really risky to switch-in in the first place. And when you u-turn out somebody else has to eat an ice punch, or even worse, a knock off. Tornadus-t doesn't want to switch-in to conk, and conk doesn't want to switch-in to torn-t. That's that.

 

[Sorawing]

How is normal Gardevoir in B? Is it really more viable than things like Celebi and Jelli without the mega stone?

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

How is normal Gardevoir in B? Is it really more viable than things like Celebi and Jelli without the mega stone?

Scarfed revenge killing maybe? I don't know, I don't think anyone has discussed base-form Gardevoir.

 

[Karxrida]

I decided to use Moonblast because some people still use it (knowing what exactly Pixilate works and that Eevee learn that attack from BW2 are more rare than picking Moonblast from it's level up movepool) and to show that even with Moonblast OHKOs Hydreigon.


In Pokemon Online UU the dragons are as foolows:
Latias 12,9%
Salamence 12,5%
Zygarde 5,16%
Hydreigon 3,89% (which this usage, it goes LU)
Kingdra 3,34%
Noivern 2,84%
Haxorus 2,48%

And the Fairies:
Sylveon 18,9%
Gardevoir 12,5%
Florges 3,92%

Off-topic: UU PO doesn't deserve the name of Underused: There are the BST of the Top pokemon in order
525/600/580/600/518 (618)/600/700/580/500 (600)/510/450*/580/440*/465 (565)/410 **(510**)/600/468/580/500/530 (630)/423**/485/600/534/520/500/600/530 (630)/600/580/..

*Can use Eviolite.
** Can have the Ability Pure Power/Huge power

Nobody uses Moonblast except for ingame teams, which we are not talking about. Also, Florges has been blacklisted, so stop bringing it up.

I still think that Hydreigon could be B material, as the only Pokemon it has problems with are Faries, which aren't on every team and teams that do have them probably don't have more than one. It still has amazing coverage and Dark Pulse is extremely easy to spam, especially on a Choice set.

 

[Vert]

I compared it to those guys because they are also in the B+ rank, not because they're defensive threats. They, in my opinion, do their job better than torn-t does, which is why I'd say B for torn-t.

I can see why you would do power+reliability combos, but they really only work for pokemon like terrakion, which can function with more or less just two moves. Terrakion is a bad example to compare to because all it literally needs is stone edge and close combat, you often have free moveslots to mess around with. Pokemon like zam and torn-t do not have such luxuries. Alakazam does NOT function with just two moves, it needs all the coverage it can get, your hypothetical 120bp psyshock with 75 acc wouldn't see too much use because Zam is a revenge killer! It certainly cannot risk missing that powerful move if your team is in danger of being swept by a lucario!
The same applies for torn-t. It has much better options like the ones you have stated than air slash+hurricane. Knock off, u-turn, rain dance, focus blast, you yourself have listed the several options he has access to. These moves make him better and he would rather have all of these than not.
I personally just don't understand the logic behind running reliable+power combos. I'd rather hit a weak hit than not hit at all, and with my luck, I personally would never run such moves.

And on the torn-t switching in part, you would have to switch-in, take knock off (bad), drain punch (doesn't care) or mach punch (doesn't care) but its really risky to switch torn-t in on a conk in general when the user COULD predict it and go for ice punch. Even if you get in safely, what have you accomplished? Assuming you're not running hurricane, because you shouldn't unless you're in the rain, what advantage does it put you in? As we have established, air slash doesn't ko, and with the prior damage you took from switching in, ice punch is enough to ko! Sure, you can just u-turn out, but its really risky to switch-in in the first place. And when you u-turn out somebody else has to eat an ice punch, or even worse, a knock off. Tornadus-t doesn't want to switch-in to conk, and conk doesn't want to switch-in to torn-t. That's that.

Don't compare Tornadus-T to Zapdos, Chansey, and Ferrothorn. It doesn't matter if they don't do their job better, but answer this question: What outclasses Tornadus-T? Nothing. This itself means that its not B-Rank worthy.

Combine this with major points:
- Regenerator which mitigates Stealth Rock and Life Orb recoil
- Amazing STAB
- Good coverage moves
- U-turn is amazing on something this fast
- Creates many free turns + can't be double-switched on in most scenarios
- Trolly Spe
- Good SpA

These made this thing broken last generation, so I don't know what you're trying to use to make Tornadus-T. The only thing you have mentioned is Conkeldurr which isn't going to make it B-Rank by itself. This gen:
- Got Knock Off
- Speed is even better with slower threats rising

A trade off that makes Tornadus-T A- Rank:
- Greninja
- Talonflame
- Rotom-W and Zapdos's increased usage
- Aegislash (it takes Shadow Ball quite nicely and can play around it)
- Rain Nerf

These are the most common problems, but those aren't going to make Tornadus-T B Rank. Tornadus-T is also a team player unlike other cleaners which is a huge plus, and its typing and stats are also really balanced 79 / 100 / 80 / 110 / 90 / 121 is a nice distribution. Tornadus-T has almost no counters too. It can only be checked. Blissey is mauled by Superpower. Aegislash cannot take repeated Knock Offs or Heat Waves without good prediction. Zapdos and Rotom-W are the only things that can reliably take on Tornadus-T, but it can just U-turn out and switch to something that can easily take care of it like AV Tyranitar, Garchomp, Kyurem-B, Latias, Choice Scarf Excadrill, Mega Venusaur.

In addition to this fact, Tornadus-T also creates amazing cores int his metagame. Genesect + Tornadus-T (banned soon, but right now it's amazing), Tornadus-T + Kyurem-B, Tornadus-T + Rotom-W, Torndus-T + Garchomp, Tornadus-T + Tyranitar, etc. In fact, the free turns it creates allows it to easily let teammates have a handful of set-up opportunities.

For these reasons, Tornadus-T is an A- Rank candidate and A- Rank should exist now because of the new PKMN that have fallen into a territory better than B+, but not A (Tornadus-T, Bisharp, etc.).

 

[Chev]

Hydreigon is definitely a viable pokemon to use in OU, and can even be quite deadly. His problem is that fairies do exist, and a well made, well rounded team will have (usually) more than one way to deal with a Hydreigon. Greninja, Sylveon, CharizardY, and much more of the current OU metagame all can handle him, and/or OHKO him. Now, not all are a safe switch-in by any means. However, even without a safe switch-in, you can manage to double switch, or even stall him with other pokes, or even set up to move onward and KO him. It isn't that Hydreigon is bad, far from it in fact; it's just that there are far more option at this point in time, and unless your team really needs him he may not be the best option.

(E.g. My friend has a hasty mixed wallbreaker Hydreigon he rarely gets to use, as he just does not fit well into most teams he ends up using. He instead has two Garchomps. But, to each his own.)

 

[Josh Morales]

Darmanitan now has an OU analysis. Perhaps we should discuss Darm a second time?

 

[eddiefiv]

*sigh*
I mean that aegislash can just repeatedly shadow sneak, and counter doesn't affect ghost types. You also aren't trapped.

I still need to remember that.
My point still stands, however.

 

[Senile]

It can't go anything, see this
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 117-140 (32.5 - 38.8%) -- 5.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Use that move in OU when the Top 8 in Pokemon Online (Showdown is not expect to be much different) resist it. Also, position 11, 13, 15, 21, 22, 23, etc.
If you don't decide to use that attack, your best bet is
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 81-96 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery


But Florges is outclassed by Sylveon? But it has some tiny bit more of SpD and a bit more speed (irrelevant to Hydreigon).
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 133-159 (33.7 - 40.3%) -- 35.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 91-108 (23 - 27.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Moonblast has this chance of OHKOing Hydreigon without Rocks:
4 SpA Sylveon Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 484-576 (148.9 - 177.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Why is a Sylveon running max Sp.Def instead of physical bulk? That's a terrible set, for example:

4 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 278-328 (70.5 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

At least physically defensive Sylveon can take 2 of them if there aren't rocks up, well, most of the time:

4 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 185-218 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 15.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Of course, Hydreigon could just run more attack investment, and if rocks are up the 2HKO is guaranteed, but you know. Obviously you could argue Iron Tail is a bad move, but the point still stands that Hydreigon has 0 true counters.

 

[ensurdagen]

It can't go anything, see this
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 117-140 (32.5 - 38.8%) -- 5.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I pointed out why FC is bad in OU, OU "Baitdreigon" should be mixed. FC is only useful vs Clefable with Specs--barely.

Hydreigon has no place in this meta and as a mixed dragon, there isnt much point of using it over mence, who is C rank. This thing should be d-rank, if even ranked at all.

Salamence can't 2HKO anything in ou, it has a much smaller movepool and a weaker Draco Meteor. It also doesn't draw out special walls, and has 4x Ice weakness and SR weakness without useful dark typing. Hydreigon laughs at weak Ice attacks, like the common HP Ice, and isn't OHKOed by Ice Shard. Less bulk cements it as anything but a Hydreigon replacement. To bait kill properly with Head Smash or Charge Beam you need to hit their fairy on the switch, that's the whole point of switching into Hydreigon never being safe. I bet Salamence would compete against Hydreigon better for a team slot if it got a good flying STAB, but Aerial Ace doesn't compare to Dark Pulse.

If you're using Hydreigon to Head Smash Sylveon/Azumarill/etc, it's to clear the way for a stronger pokemon on your team that has trouble with them, meaning you can leave out a STAB. He WILL cripple himself with it, but you just took a pokemon you outspeed below 50% and baited it out directly. Every Hydreigon set has a specific, and different, niche. Superpower > EQ for breaking both Heatran/Blissey, use Earth Power on a non-mixed set ideally for Ground coverage but it's more useful in UU, FC is useless in OU, U-turn and Roost are situational. Fire Blast is amazing... if your team needs it. His Fire Blast hits much harder than mixmence's ^_^.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Hydreigon's niche this gen should be as a choice scarf/choice specs user. Dark pulse is extremely spammable and u-turn allows it to build momentum against the few things that can switch on it. Also its resistance to dark and ghost makes it a great check for aegislash and bisharp and the fact that its not vulnerable to hazards means that it doesnt require defog support. Hydreigon has a clear niche over other dragons, the question here is whether this niche is good enough for at least B rank. I say yes.

 

[ensurdagen]

(E.g. My friend has a hasty mixed wallbreaker Hydreigon he rarely gets to use, as he just does not fit well into most teams he ends up using. He instead has two Garchomps. But, to each his own.)

Tell him to try Aegislash/Hydreigon, a relatively popular wallbreaking core that resists almost everything.

Hydreigon's niche this gen should be as a choice scarf/choice specs user.

Life Orb leads to many mixed 2HKOs, even without Atk investment, especially Blissey and Heatran from Superpower.

 

[RufflesPro]

Very refreshing to see the ranks being updated, intro of A- tier, and the lower tiers being much more populated.
Keep up the good work guys =)

Josh Morales Please :)

 

[TooMuchSugar]

I decided to use Moonblast because some people still use it (knowing what exactly Pixilate works and that Eevee learn that attack from BW2 are more rare than picking Moonblast from it's level up movepool) and to show that even with Moonblast OHKOs Hydreigon.


In Pokemon Online UU the dragons are as foolows:
Latias 12,9%
Salamence 12,5%
Zygarde 5,16%
Hydreigon 3,89% (which this usage, it goes LU)
Kingdra 3,34%
Noivern 2,84%
Haxorus 2,48%

And the Fairies:
Sylveon 18,9%
Gardevoir 12,5%
Florges 3,92%

Off-topic: UU PO doesn't deserve the name of Underused: There are the BST of the Top pokemon in order
525/600/580/600/518 (618)/600/700/580/500 (600)/510/450*/580/440*/465 (565)/410 **(510**)/600/468/580/500/530 (630)/423**/485/600/534/520/500/600/530 (630)/600/580/..

*Can use Eviolite.
** Can have the Ability Pure Power/Huge power

This post makes absolutely no sense, sorry. You gave lists of the top used dragons and fairies from UU, despite the fact that this is an OU thread; you gave the stats from PO, while we use PS (there are substantial differences). We don't even take usage stats into account when ranking stuff anyway - and if we did, you didn't even tell us what the point of the stats is!

On the subject of Darmanitan - I would guess off the top of my head C or C+. It's powerful as hell and now has less stealth rocks to deal with, but still has to worry about 95 base speed and the fact that it kills itself with recoil so quickly.

 

[Josh Morales]

Very refreshing to see the ranks being updated, intro of A- tier, and the lower tiers being much more populated.
Keep up the good work guys =)

Josh Morales Please :)

hi

 

[TooMuchSugar]

How is normal Gardevoir in B? Is it really more viable than things like Celebi and Jelli without the mega stone?

It's because we have inconsistent rules on how pokemon and their megas are ranked. In some cases, they both get ranked as the higher one, as in Gardevoir's case. For others, such as Lucario, the mega and base form are ranked separately. There have been arguments for doing it both of these ways and I'm not clear on which is official.

Of course, it's possible that we did actually agree to put Gardevoir in B-rank at some point and I've just forgotten. In that case, I don't know what we were thinking, as it's C- material max.

 

[Karxrida]

It's because we have inconsistent rules on how pokemon and their megas are ranked. In some cases, they both get ranked as the higher one, as in Gardevoir's case. For others, such as Lucario, the mega and base form are ranked separately. There have been arguments for doing it both of these ways and I'm not clear on which is official.

Of course, it's possible that we did actually agree to put Gardevoir in B-rank at some point and I've just forgotten. In that case, I don't know what we were thinking, as it's C- material max.

The only thing I can see Gardevoir doing is running a Scarf set to spam Moonblasts and maybe use Trick on a wall after it's outlived its usefulness. It's WAY too frail and too slow to run a CM or SubCM set since anything physical that's also somewhat bulky can just take more than 2 hits and kill it.

+1 252 SpA Gardevoir Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 153-180 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Gardevoir Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Scizor: 308-364 (89.5 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 458-542 (164.7 - 194.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Healthy Scizor pretty much hard counters Gardevoir without HP Fire, and even then there's only a 37.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed with SR). Scizor may lose to Sub + 3 attacks, but only if it has a Sub up before Scizor switches in AND SR is up.

Even if you burn him on the switch, still murders you.
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician burned Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 229-271 (82.3 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even then Sylveon does a better job with CM thanks to Pixilate Hyper Voice and much better bulk.
I'd say D rank for normal Gardevoir.