Pokémon Latios

[El Coqui]

I feel like the only real Fairy Latios should worry about it MegaGardevoir since it is immune to one, resistant to the STAB and can OKHO with Hypervoice.

252 SpA Pixilate Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 422-498 (139.7 - 164.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Granted MegaGoddess will not want to actually switch INTO Latios because:

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir: 204-240 (73.3 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 139-164 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir: 177-208 (63.6 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 121-143 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Expert Belt Latios Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir: 163-192 (58.6 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 93-110 (33.4 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

***252+ SpA Choice Specs Latios Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir: 222-262 (79.8 - 94.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock***

So really in terms of Fairy-types Latios doesnt really have much at all to worry about. I would never say switch-in or go 1v1 against a MegaGardevoir but if it catches it on the switch it should be ok

 

[Ryolain]

I feel like the only real Fairy Latios should worry about it MegaGardevoir since it is immune to one, resistant to the STAB and can OKHO with Hypervoice.

252 SpA Pixilate Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 422-498 (139.7 - 164.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Granted MegaGoddess will not want to actually switch INTO Latios because:

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir: 204-240 (73.3 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 139-164 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir: 177-208 (63.6 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 121-143 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Expert Belt Latios Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir: 163-192 (58.6 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 93-110 (33.4 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

***252+ SpA Choice Specs Latios Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir: 222-262 (79.8 - 94.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock***

So really in terms of Fairy-types Latios doesnt really have much at all to worry about. I would never say switch-in or go 1v1 against a MegaGardevoir but if it catches it on the switch it should be ok

MMawile is a much bigger problem, the only way it can win is if Mawile hasn't MEvo'd yet and it uses HP Fire on the switch. Otherwise MMawile takes a max of 80% from HP Fire and OHKOs back with Sucker Punch.

 

[El Coqui]

MMawile is a much bigger problem, the only way it can win is if Mawile hasn't MEvo'd yet and it uses HP Fire on the switch. Otherwise MMawile takes a max of 80% from HP Fire and OHKOs back with Sucker Punch.

generally most teams carry 1-2 EQ users or counter fore steel types in OU so I see it as less a problem

 

[Calm_Mind_Latias]

Keep in mind that this was last gen so there were no fairies and before the therians were released, so yeah it worked pretty good. Only used it in random matchup, though.

I stand somewhat corrected. I do not think hitting Fairies with miniscule damage from Ice Beam is noteworthy. They'll just take it since it is not STAB and Fairies are specially defensive.

...

Regarding Psychic. Many Conkeldurr would are using Assault Vest now, so it would not hit it harder. I haven't done the calcs though.

 

[Jaroda]

I'll tell you one unique niche Latios can abuse which is being one of the best checks to AV Conk and Mega Venusaur. Able to resist their STABs and threatens with its speed and STAB Psychic, although it certainly does mind switching into Knock Off or Sleep Powder.

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 408-482 (98.5 - 116.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psychic vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 306-360 (86.9 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 416-492 (100.4 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 374-444 (102.7 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 246-290 (67.5 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Psyshock vs Psychic is highly dependent on the opponent. Bold Megasaur is more popular than Calm I believe, so Psychic is always a safe OHKO there. As for AV Conk it entirely depends if they throw their EVs into HP or SpD. Both are capable of a OHKO at least. Meanwhile Psyshock is a much better answer for AV Conk overall and great against Blissey, but not for Bold Megasaur, in which case Draco Meteor will be stronger, but only by 5%. Megasaur is a great wall and becoming more popular, as is AV Conk so a strong Psychic move is handy to have, particularly when its so natural on a strong special wall breaker like Latios, so you're not sacrificing much. Not to mention the great coverage Thunderbolt (Azumarill, Slowbro, Skarmory, Togekiss) and Surf (Heatran, Gliscor, Landlos-T) provide with the pure devastation of Draco Meteor, which like has been mentioned, particularly potent with a lack of SpD Steels. Yes Fairies are in their place, but few things immune to Dragon enjoy that attack. And Scarf sets are still great for eliminating all the slower DDancing Dragons at +1, none of which appreciate Draco Meteor.

 

[reale]

As I said, this was last gen and I was just starting competitive, so I didn't know much. Ice Beam was there just for type coverage, and since it is resisted by only two (I think) types it seemed a reliable move to lock into Choice Specs. And if your desperate you can hope for a freeze. But yeah, Psyshock is a pretty good move that I'll keep in mind. Also, what move would you recommend switching Ice Beam out for?

I've been running Latios for awhile, and shadow ball is better to be locked into than ice beam

 

[Always!]

As a Defogger, which can add a whole new element to the Dual Screens set, Latios is still rather interesting despite the usage drop.
When all the fairy hype ends, it'll still be able to clam a solid OU spot, either defoging or being offensive.

Also, on a side note, I have a feeling that it's Mega Stone will be the Soul Dew

 

[Chou Toshio]

I'll tell you one unique niche Latios can abuse which is being one of the best checks to AV Conk and Mega Venusaur. Able to resist their STABs and threatens with its speed and STAB Psychic, although it certainly does mind switching into Knock Off or Sleep Powder.

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 408-482 (98.5 - 116.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psychic vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 306-360 (86.9 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 416-492 (100.4 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 374-444 (102.7 - 121.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 246-290 (67.5 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Psyshock vs Psychic is highly dependent on the opponent. Bold Megasaur is more popular than Calm I believe, so Psychic is always a safe OHKO there. As for AV Conk it entirely depends if they throw their EVs into HP or SpD. Both are capable of a OHKO at least. Meanwhile Psyshock is a much better answer for AV Conk overall and great against Blissey, but not for Bold Megasaur, in which case Draco Meteor will be stronger, but only by 5%. Megasaur is a great wall and becoming more popular, as is AV Conk so a strong Psychic move is handy to have, particularly when its so natural on a strong special wall breaker like Latios, so you're not sacrificing much. Not to mention the great coverage Thunderbolt (Azumarill, Slowbro, Skarmory, Togekiss) and Surf (Heatran, Gliscor, Landlos-T) provide with the pure devastation of Draco Meteor, which like has been mentioned, particularly potent with a lack of SpD Steels. Yes Fairies are in their place, but few things immune to Dragon enjoy that attack. And Scarf sets are still great for eliminating all the slower DDancing Dragons at +1, none of which appreciate Draco Meteor.

How the hell is Latios a check to AV Conk? It is one shot by Knock out-- which Conk spams more frequently than Drain Punch... I'll give you that it is a good check to Venusaur though. It's easy to find something to switch into Venu, but a poke that can do it and also easily finish Venu off is a bit trickier. Being able to do both without being a SR weak Flying type is definitely nice.

 

[Punchshroom]

How the hell is Latios a check to AV Conk? It is one shot by Knock out-- which Conk spams more frequently than Drain Punch... I'll give you that it is a good check to Venusaur though. It's easy to find something to switch into Venu, but a poke that can do it and also easily finish Venu off is a bit trickier. Being able to do both without being a SR weak Flying type is definitely nice.

LO Latios OHKOes AV Conk with Psyshock, so if Latios doesn't get wrecked by Knock Off / Ice Punch it can definitely check. Latios is also a marvelous offensive check to Rotom-W, since Recover heals off all that Volt Switch / Will-O-Wisp nonsense and it can still nuke with Draco Meteor, and Thunderbolt most Fairies. Being Tyranitar and Aegislash weak still sucks bad for it though.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Look at what I posted again.

When you say "Check" you generally mean something that has several opportunities to switch in (not perfectly like a wall, but has a good shot at it). Knock Off is probably more the spam move of choice for Conk over Drain Punch. If you are 1 shot by the Pokemon's most likely spam move, you cannot be called a check. An effective Revenge killer yes-- in that sense a realy emergency backup check...

 

[Punchshroom]

Look at what I posted again.

When you say "Check" you generally mean something that has several opportunities to switch in (not perfectly like a wall, but has a good shot at it). Knock Off is probably more the spam move of choice for Conk over Drain Punch. If you are 1 shot by the Pokemon's most likely spam move, you cannot be called a check. An effective Revenge killer yes-- in that sense a realy emergency backup check...

Hmmm....I wouldn't really say Knock Off would be Conk's spam move of choice, since it usually prefers Drain Punch's recovery over removing its opponent's, but yeah I can see why you say Latios can't be called a check.

 

[UltiMario]

So bumping this because I'm going to confirm that Mega Latios is a Dragon/Psychic with Levitate with 80/130/100/160/120/110 for stats.

Latias doesn't seem to have a thread for some reason, so I'll also dump that it's a Dragon/Psychic with Levitate with 80/100/120/140/150/110 for stats.

Discuss.

 

[Tressed]

So bumping this because I'm going to confirm that Mega Latios is a Dragon/Psychic with Levitate with 80/130/100/160/120/110 for stats.

Latias doesn't seem to have a thread for some reason, so I'll also dump that it's a Dragon/Psychic with Levitate with 80/100/120/140/150/110 for stats.

Discuss.

Gibe source pls

Otherwise this is pointless theorymon.

 

[UltiMario]

Latis are 4Hp 252 SpA 252 Spe Timid

31/X/31/31/31/31 IVs

Some EZPZ math and boom

stats

 

[haunter]

122 Atk, 100 Def, 160 Spa, 120 SpD and same 110 Spe is what I'm getting for Latios. The Speed is quite disappointing tbh, though the increased Atk could make it a better mixed attacker.

 

[Verminator]

Remember, Mega evos give +100 BST. That makes UtiMario's interpretation more likely.

As for what I make of this, well, I'm looking at Mega Latios' base 130 attack and wondering what you'd use it for. Maybe you could try some kind of mixed wallbreaking set? However, Latios doesn't really have much in the way of physical wallbusting options that I can think of, Earthquake aside, and nothing to get it past the likes of Ferrothorn, fairies and Blissey / Chansey. A DD set? Base 130 is the same as Megazard X, and you inhabit a better speed tier, but you have a worse offensive typing and no sexy Tough Claws boost, and your sky-high sp. atk is left to sit unused. Latios has never really been one to need any more physical attack anyway, thanks to Psyshock. It didn't really want more attack, it doesn't really feel like there's any real reason to use it outside gimmicky surprise value. It's kind of disappointing, seeing as how what it really wanted was more speed.

However, that extra bulk is more than welcome. I feel like Latias was the real winner here instead of her big bro, because with a megastone, she can just straight-up upgrade her defensive and CM sets, while Latios is probably gonna end up missing its Choice items or Life Orb.

Edit: I've just been browsing Latios' movepool for physical options. Outrage, EQ, Zen Headbutt, Dragon Claw, Waterfall, Steel Wing. That's the full extent of Latios' worthwhile physical movepool. I have to wonder what the hell GF were thinking on this one.

 

[LoDart210]

Mixed dragon dance Latios is a go?

With base 150 draco meteor is still scary even uninvested. (Or is it base 160? Lol eat your heart out zard y)

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

I dont honestly see the point of these mega stones. Soul Dew is still better (yeah i know its not released but neither are these ones so shush) due to giving higher boosts to the relevant stats and not eating a mega slot. The only real benefit is the higher attack (higher than life orb latis) but thats just a tiny niche and doesnt even compare to the automatic calm mind boosts of soul dew.

 

[Verminator]

I dont honestly see the point of these mega stones. Soul Dew is still better (yeah i know its not released but neither are these ones so shush) due to giving higher boosts to the relevant stats and not eating a mega slot. The only real benefit is the higher attack (higher than life orb latis) but thats just a tiny niche and doesnt even compare to the automatic calm mind boosts of soul dew.

I'm definitely with you on Latios. Soul Dew gives it a bigger (worthwhile) offensive boost that its Megastone does, and it just feels like a waste of a mega on an offensive team when you can run Mega Charizard instead - anything Mega Latios can do one way or another is mostly outclassed by one Charizard form or the other, or by regular Latios with an offensive item.

Latias, however, I'm not sure. While the gains to sp.def and sp.atk aren't quite as drastic, it definitely appreciates the +30 base physical defense. I think bulky CM Mega Latias will find a strong niche on bulky offensive teams, and bulky support Mega Latias with Defog may be a great asset to certain bulky teams, although it's gonna have stiff competition with Mega Venusaur in that regard.

 

[Severn]

Isn't soul dew banned in OU anyway? So is there really a point in comparing Mega Latios and Latios with a soul dew?

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Soul dew is not released yet, exactly the same as these stones so its a pretty fair comparison.

 

[Shadow-XIII]

Trollfreak does it again, only way these Megas are going to be worth it is if the Mega Stone acts like Soul Dew.

 

[Shiruba]

Latios is honestly my favourite of all Pokemon; I don't like to participate in discussions about him on the viability ranking thread for that reason - I'm far too biased.

That said, yeah, MegaTios is a bit underwhelming, but there's only so much they can do when comparing it to something as amazing as Soul Dew - if this thing is a replacement for Soul Dew, though, imma be pissed.

However, MegaTios is still kinda cool because, while Heatran normally shits on it, you can laugh in his face with a stronger EQ. Latios gets Dragon Dance, which helps him boost that now nice attack stat, and Levitate is still a good ability for avoiding Sticky Web, all Spikes, and Ground-type attacks.

Furthermore, why can't you run a mix set on this guy? DDance/EQ/DClaw/Tbolt means you still shit on Skarm, while Draco Meteor is still solid power and lets Latios laugh at physically-defensive 'mons that don't resist it. Shame the Adaptability rumour wasn't true, though.

Even despite that, those boosted defences, while probably not alone making it worth running over another mega, are still pretty cool. Somewhat notably, Conkeldurr doesn't kill at full health with Knock Off [though it + Mach Punch should], while Scizor's non-banded U-Turn will not kill either.
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 246-290 (81.4 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Scizor U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 254-300 (84.1 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Nor does unboosted Return from Mega Pinsir.
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 247-292 (81.7 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Smogonburd.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 235-277 (77.8 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not a huuuuge deal, but still kinda cool.




But seriously. Why is it so ugly. Seriously.

 

[Pyritie]

Latios is honestly my favourite of all Pokemon; I don't like to participate in discussions about him on the viability ranking thread for that reason - I'm far too biased.

That said, yeah, MegaTios is a bit underwhelming, but there's only so much they can do when comparing it to something as amazing as Soul Dew - if this thing is a replacement for Soul Dew, though, imma be pissed.

However, MegaTios is still kinda cool because, while Heatran normally shits on it, you can laugh in his face with a stronger EQ. Latios gets Dragon Dance, which helps him boost that now nice attack stat, and Levitate is still a good ability for avoiding Sticky Web, all Spikes, and Ground-type attacks.

Furthermore, why can't you run a mix set on this guy? DDance/EQ/DClaw/Tbolt means you still shit on Skarm, while Draco Meteor is still solid power and lets Latios laugh at physically-defensive 'mons that don't resist it. Shame the Adaptability rumour wasn't true, though.

Even despite that, those boosted defences, while probably not alone making it worth running over another mega, are still pretty cool. Somewhat notably, Conkeldurr doesn't kill at full health with Knock Off [though it + Mach Punch should], while Scizor's non-banded U-Turn will not kill either.
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 246-290 (81.4 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Scizor U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 254-300 (84.1 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Nor does unboosted Return from Mega Pinsir.
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 247-292 (81.7 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Smogonburd.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 235-277 (77.8 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not a huuuuge deal, but still kinda cool.




But seriously. Why is it so ugly. Seriously.

What is soul dew IS the megastone?!

 

[Vengeance417]

What is soul dew IS the megastone?!

It's not. In the video posted above, it clearly says "Latiosite", meaning it's a different item altogether.