Item Choice Scarf (Role in the Meta)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Chou Toshio

Over9000
is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus


Choice Scarf has been around for 3 generations now (wow, that many already?) so everyone knows what it does-- gives a 1.5 boost to the user's Speed while disabling its ability to switch attacks (without switching out). It's always been a great item for revenge killing, or adding survivability to an offensive Pokemon who's natural Speed or Bulk were not quite up to stuff; and for a "limiting" item has enabled a surprising diversity of unique strategies over the generations.


In 6th Gen, the huge diversity of powerful and common priority moves has really changed the role and influence of Choice Scarf on the meta-- in that, there is no standard Scarf user or meta.


Background Information of "Standard of Scarf Speed" in 4th and 5th Gens

While there was always a diversity of roles and scarf user types, traditionally (in 4th and 5th gen) there would be 1 or 2 Scarf users that set a "standard" for scarf, around which the "scarf metagame" would evolve because the standard would establish a "standard" for scarfer Speed--

102 Base Speed (Early DP Standard)
100 Base Speed (DPP/HGSS Standard)

102 Base Speed (Early BW Standard)
99 Base Speed (Early B2W2 Standard)
108 Base Speed (Late B2W2 Standard)


Traditionally, the standard would be set by a Pokemon that had a combination of bulk, power, and Speed while lacking a weakness to Pursuit. Normally, it would be the fastest Pokemon in the metagame to possess these traits, though Genesect broke this rule simply by being the best through greater power and utility (and Scarf Chomp only held the title in early BW because people didn't experiment with Scarf Terrak enough).

Faster Pokemon would be limited in Scarf ability because of a weakness to Pursuit (Gengar, Starmie, Lati@s were never able to become the standard).


However, the reason why this concept of "standard scarfer" is important at all is because Scarfers slower than the standard would put their team at a disadvantage, simply because so many games between offensive teams would be decided by "who has the faster Scarf user". Scarf Pokemon had such a tremendous influence on battles, especially late battle, that having a slower Scarf Pokemon immediately put a player at a big disadvantage.

In late 4th gen, the games won or lost by Speed tie of Flygon v. Flygon v. Jirachi v. Jirachi (all Jolly max Speed) were disgusting, so while Flygon especially wanted to run Adamant, all were almost obliged to run Jolly. Meanwhile using a Pokemon like Tyranitar or Heracross as a Scarf user, always came at the cost of losing against the standard (so things like TTar or Heatran would always be niche, and things like Scarf-cross fell off the map completely).

With Genesect banned, reaching it's mature state-- it's not surprising the BW2 found Terrak and Keldeo as the standard (the fastest Pokemon with bulk, Speed, and Power, not weak to Pursuit). Things like Garchomp, Landorus, Salamence, and Hydreigon would always be at a disadvantage because of Speed.


The interesting thing about XY is that this Standard of Scarf Speed development doesn't really exist-- with so much priority, the power and influence of "natural" Speed has been greatly diminished, and the influence that Choice Scarf base Speed has on the metagame has been even more diminished.

Even Genesect could not set a standard of Speed-- because while Genesect was the most useful or popular Scarf user, games that would be decided in end game by "who's Genesect won the Speed tie" were few and far between; and Genesect's popularity didn't stop Scarf Pokemon like Excadrill, Landorus-T, and Rotom-W from being very popular.

With Genesect more likely being floored by a powerful priority Acrobatics, Sucker Punch or Vacuum Wave than living to fight for a Speed tie, there was relatively little need to match or beat that 99 base Speed. Also Salamence's (and Haxorus) drop in effectiveness (and therefore DD role being dominated by slower Pokemon like Dragonite and Gyarados), there was even less pressure to need high base Speed on a Choice Scarfer. Deoxys-S outspeeding basically anything that could be a standard is the nail in the coffin.


With this change in nature of Scarf use in XY, there is actually much greater freedom to choose a variety of Scarf users-- because utility, bulk, movepool, typing, etc. etc. now have a chance to play a much bigger role! It's not just about base Speed anymore.

It also means you have more more freedom to NOT choose a +Speed nature, adding even further to Scarfer diversity!


Right now, the top Scarf users in XY are probably:



Mold Breaker
-Earthquake
-Iron Head
-Rapid Spin
-Rock Slide

Awesome coverage, awesome power, and even awesome utility with that speedy Rapid Spin. Mold Breaker Earthquake is absolutely epic! Resistance to Flying (and Normal) is a huge help in dealing with Priority.


-Hydro Pump
-Volt Switch
-Trick
-W-o-W / Filler Attack (HP Ice, Signal Beam, etc.)

The tricky washing machine has always been a great Scarf user, but now even better without the setting of a "standard Speed".


-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Knock Off
-U-Turn


Notice that they're all slower Pokemon, and in this case, all bringing Utility roles in addition to revenge killing! Without a set standard (an idea even further weakened with Genesect's banning), we can expect even more creativity with Scarf users going into the future.

What other types of Pokemon might get a chance to succeed with a stylish Scarf, where they never would have worked before?


??
Swarm / Technician
-Iron Head / Bullet Punch
-U-Turn
-Knock Off / Pursuit
-Superpower / Pursuit

How about using Scarf Scizor with Defog??


??
-Icycle Crash
-Earthquake
-Stealth Rock
-Knock Off / Super Power

There's always Stone Edge and Ice Shard to consider too!



Can it make a come back??
-Dazzling Gleam
-Ancient Power
-Air Slash
-Aura Sphere / Fire Blast

Kill ALL the Charizards!
 
Last edited:
I've also seen Scarf Moxie Salamence and Scarf Terrakion occasionally on a team. Eh but I think that Greninja, Very Fast Mons, and priority users have replaced the Scarfers for the most part. However, Choice Scarves are still a valuable tool.
 


Choice Scarf has been around for 3 generations now (wow, that many already?) so everyone knows what it does-- gives a 1.5 boost to the user's Speed while disabling its ability to switch attacks (without switching out). It's always been a great item for revenge killing, or adding survivability to an offensive Pokemon who's natural Speed or Bulk were not quite up to stuff; and for a "limiting" item has enabled a surprising diversity of unique strategies over the generations.


In 6th Gen, the huge diversity of powerful and common priority moves has really changed the role and influence of Choice Scarf on the meta-- in that, there is no standard Scarf user or meta.


Background Information of "Standard of Scarf Speed" in 4th and 5th Gens





The interesting thing about XY is that this Standard of Scarf Speed development doesn't really exist-- with so much priority, the power and influence of "natural" Speed has been greatly diminished, and the influence that Choice Scarf base Speed has on the metagame has been even more diminished.

Even Genesect could not set a standard of Speed-- because while Genesect was the most useful or popular Scarf user, games that would be decided in end game by "who's Genesect won the Speed tie" were few and far between; and Genesect's popularity didn't stop Scarf Pokemon like Excadrill, Landorus-T, and Rotom-W from being very popular.

With Genesect more likely being floored by a powerful priority Acrobatics, Sucker Punch or Vacuum Wave than living to fight for a Speed tie, there was relatively little need to match or beat that 99 base Speed. Also Salamence's (and Haxorus) drop in effectiveness (and therefore DD role being dominated by slower Pokemon like Dragonite and Gyarados), there was even less pressure to need high base Speed on a Choice Scarfer.


This change in nature of Scarf use in XY, there is actually much greater freedom to choose a variety of Scarf users-- because utility, bulk, movepool, typing, etc. etc. now have a chance to play a much bigger role! It's not just about base Speed anymore.

It also means you have more more freedom to NOT choose a +Speed nature, adding even further to Scarfer diversity!


Right now, the top Scarf users in XY are probably:



Mold Breaker
-Earthquake
-Iron Head
-Rapid Spin
-Rock Slide

Awesome coverage, awesome power, and even awesome utility with that speedy Rapid Spin. Mold Breaker Earthquake is absolutely epic! Resistance to Flying (and Normal) is a huge help in dealing with Priority.


-Hydro Pump
-Volt Switch
-Trick
-W-o-W / Filler Attack (HP Ice, Signal Beam, etc.)

The tricky washing machine has always been a great Scarf user, but now even better without the setting of a "standard Speed".


-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Knock Off
-U-Turn


Notice that they're all slower Pokemon, and in this case, all bringing Utility roles in addition to revenge killing! Without a set standard (an idea even further weakened with Genesect's banning), we can expect even more creativity with Scarf users going into the future.

What other types of Pokemon might get a chance to succeed with a stylish Scarf, where they never would have worked before?


??
Swarm / Technician
-Iron Head / Bullet Punch
-U-Turn
-Knock Off / Pursuit
-Superpower / Pursuit

How about using Scarf Scizor with Defog??


??
-Icycle Crash
-Earthquake
-Stealth Rock
-Knock Off / Super Power

There's always Stone Edge and Ice Shard to consider too!



Can it make a come back??
-Dazzling Gleam
-Ancient Power
-Air Slash
-Aura Sphere / Fire Blast

Kill ALL the Charizards!
I made a set for scarfed Tornadus-Therian (sounds stupid but works kinda well) just as an experiment. I found that it didnt need the scarf most of the times and that there was so much priority everywhere that it was difficult to switch it in. I might try the experiment again after Mega Lucario's ban.
If anyone is interested, here's the set I used:

Tornadus-Therian
Item:Choice Scarf
EVs:96atk/252spatk/160spe
Naive nature
Move 1: Hurricane
Move 2: U-Turn
Move 3: Focus Blast
Move 4: Air Slash

It was lacking in power a bit but it showed how much more scarfers struggle with all the priority in OU. Naturally fast pokemon such as Thundurus-I or Mega Alakazam should really be used for cleaning weakened teams but scarf users are still good with U-Turn and Volt switch since it makes them easier to use. Overall, the scarf is less useful this generation but is still usable.
 
I am sure some scarfers still like to be run with a Speed Nature like Chandelure. Timid Chandelure and Adamand Excadrill, both Scarfed, can end up in a speed tie, if I remember correctly. Nor do I think that anything that can Tank Timid Fire Blast from that thing, can't tank a Modest one.
 
The only Scarfer I have much experience using this Generation is Excadrill, who definitely carries his weight. Quick Rapid Spins are great, and that Attack stat makes STAB attacks hurt. Catching a player off-guard is great.

I think that may be where Choice Scarf's strength lies in this metagame. Obviously we have a lot of great revenge killers and late-game cleaners that don't need to be choice-locked now, so that's not necessarily the role most Scarfers will play (though I'm sure many of them still can.) It's like the item itself doesn't lend itself to a particular role, but rather helps certain Pokemon perform in pre-existing roles.

We can see this with Excadrill and Rotom-W. Excadrill is still primarily an offensive spinner, and while it has revenging/cleaning capabilities, that's not necessarily the point. Rotom-W still works as a VoltTurning pivot.

If there's one type of Pokemon I'd expect to see carry Choice Scarf more often, it's VoltTurners. Already we've seen plenty of them (there's a reason Genesect was so popular,) but with so many possible choices for users of either move I wouldn't be surprised to see one rise to prominence. Scizor is definitely the first that comes to mind, especially since it has so many effective sets already that it wouldn't be obvious.
 

ryan

Jojo Siwa enthusiast
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
This is a really interesting topic. Choice Scarf users feel like a part of the past now, but there are definitely still some good ones out there. I think, in general, Choice Scarf users want to be able to pivot. This is one of the reasons why Scarf Genesect was pretty much the only one for a while. It not only had U-turn, but it was also generally a very strong U-turn. Rotom-Wash fits the bill as well, as does Landorus-T. The reason why it's so important most of the time to be able to be able to pivot with your Choice Scarf user is because locking into a move is a lot harder now than it was in BW OU. Back then, you had plenty of options for incredibly powerful attackers with an incredible offensive STAB combo, but in XY, a lot of previously great choices have lost steam.

First off, the metagame is a lot bulkier now than it was back then. You have shit like Rotom-Wash and Aegislash on probably about half of all strong teams, making it a lot harder to OHKO things. Aegislash alone nerfed the hell out of Scarf Terrakion, one of the strongest users of the item from BW. Azumarill and other Fairy-types made it harder to lock into Fighting-type attacks as well, and those were usually the best options to lock into because of their fantastic neutral coverage. There's also no permanent weather, and many strong offensive moves have been nerfed. This makes it a lot harder to spam Scarf Hydro Pump from Politoed, Keldeo, Rotom-Wash, etc. and Scarf Fire Blast from Heatran, Flare Blitz from Darmanitan, and V-create from Victini.

Excadrill is an interest choice because it can avoid most of the problems that other Scarf users have this generation. Locking into Earthquake is usually really negative, particularly with the omnipresence of Rotom-Wash, but Mold Breaker allows Excadrill to get around a lot of the common answers to Ground-type attacks. Plus, a very fast Rapid Spin, while terrible to lock into, is a great way to make sure you can get rid of hazards at almost any time.

I don't think Togekiss will be a very good choice of a Scarf user. Flying is a phenomenal offensive typing, but people are always going to be prepared for it as long as Talonflame and Mega Pinsir remain in the metagame. If I was going to use Scarf Togekiss, however, I'd probably run a moderately bulky spread. It doesn't need a ton of Speed to outrun things with its Choice Scarf, and it has access to Trick to make use of that great bulk later on in the match without being forced to switch out too much. I might even go as far as to run a very bulky spread with Roost so that it has a lot of great use with and without its Scarf. 90% of the time, you'll want to lock into Air Slash anyways, so all that extra coverage is relatively unimportant, and being able to swap a Choice Scarf onto Rotom-Wash can be a huge game-changer.

It's probably also important to note that Choice Scarf users are relatively unnecessary this generation because of all the powerful priority you can find in the tier. That being said, it's pretty crucial to consider when choosing to use a Choice Scarf Pokemon whether you are getting any added utility (Rapid Spin with Excadrill, Trick with many other users, a fast U-turn or Volt Switch, etc.) by using a Choice Scarf Pokemon in lieu of priority and whether or not your team can still handle opposing priority users.
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor

Trace
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt / Psyshock
- Trick / Healing Wish / Destiny Bond / Memento

This would be the alternative to Togekiss, though mostly as a Fairy-type attacker than as a Flying-type attacker. Fairy moves hit a lot of fast stuff for good damage, but Gardevoir just misses out on them (even Mega Gardevoir), so a Scarf blitzes past these threats and KOes them. It boasts sufficient enough coverage to avoid being easy switch-bait. Oh, and dose last moveslot options: all of which are pretty great for a Scarf Pokemon to have, allowing it to continue contributing should it become deadweight. The downside of Scarf Garde is that it cannot really revenge boosted threats, and its poor physical defense leaves it highly susceptible to priority.
 
None of the "top-scarfers" mentioned check +1 Char-X (well, lando to an extent, but it will still get hit hard).

I actually find scarfchomp to be really decent right now. It checks every offensive mega (not +2 mawile though) as well as a bunch of common threats like talon and thundurus. Faster scarfers are very uncommon right now because keldeos are usually specs and the latis are usually life orb because they are used as defoggers.
 
I'd also like to say that I find scarfed garchomp extremely good in the current meta.
It's bulky, powerful, has good typing+dual STAB, and it regained the status of being spectacularly and trollishly fast (without the weather trios, musketeers being all over the place).
 
scarf excadrill definitely seems to be gaining in popularity from what ive seen, and i agree with seiterman that the real strength of choice scarf in xy is the element of surprise, the overall decrease in popularity of choice scarf often means it has a greater impact when played well.

oh the days of dpp ou when scarf heracross was everywhere. times have changed man
 
Personally, I think this might be the generation that choice scarf leaves the smallest impact on the metagame since it's introduction. With all the strong priority being thrown around this gen, not to mention the existence of talonflame alone, a boost in speed is becoming harder to justify locking into a single move.

I personally don't run a scarfer on either of my main teams, but if I had to pick what I thought was the most effective scarfer at the moment I would probably pick Garchomp. It has the ability to check +1 DD Zard-X and act as a great cleaner too. Rotom-W is obviously very good too, and there are certainly many other viable users, I just think that chomp is probably the best scarfer at the moment. Then again, I just faced a good old fashioned scarf-tar on the ladder, so there's still a decent amount of variety.
 
Scarf is great as a surprise factor, especially since most of the common scarfers in this gen typically act as tanks. Heatran, rotom, tyrannitar, and excadrill all fit this bill. I usually have no qualms u-turning my talonflame out of a rotom-w at the start of the game so volt-switch always comes as a nasty surprise.

But after the first turn shock, scarf isn't really scary to me. Most physical scarfers are countered hard by landorus-t and it's easy to predict around them.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Scarf Victini is pretty good. Trick and Final Gambit let it screw with defense, while V-create's ability to revenge kill is great, as well, it has u-turn to retain momentum.

People Should use it more
 
The dynamics of the meta and effect of scarf users between this gen and the last one is very interesting. The scarf went on from being a game changer and something to expect in Gen 5 to hard to justify and an excellent surprise factor. The fact this gen has become more fatter and dark/steel has been buffed and priorities are everywhere, the item usage has dropped significantly and speed tiers are becoming less of a concern.

That being said, people can take advantage of the situation and run stuff they couldn't in the previous gen. For example a Scarf Gengar was always timid, running a modest nature was just shooting yourself in the foot when it came to revenge killing.

But now I dare say you can run this safely most of the time and give Gengar an extra boost in power provided you be sensible:




Modest
Choice Scarf

-Shadow Ball
-Focus Miss
-Sludge Bomb
-Trick/Thunderbolt
 
I've been liking clear body this gen a lot more than I used to. With that being said, I've been using scarfgross because of frequent sticky web and intimidate users I have been seeing lately... Though it does miss assault vest, but It's base speed is right on the line to outspeed certain threats. It's usually 4 attacks or 3 attacks+trick with trick being for late game. It has max attack, some speed investment and the rest goes into bulk.
 
I run a scarfed jolly Tyranitar (EVs in attack and speed) and I like it. It's much more useful when I baton pass it a Sword Dance, but it works well without the attack boost. Many times I switch into something I'm effective against, and I think other players assume they can out speed me, but I end up killing them.
 

alexwolf

lurks in the shadows
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Choice Scarf Tyranitar and Choice Scarf Heatran are two very effective scarfers that are missing from the OP. Choice Scarf Tyranitar can switch into a lot of stuff it checks, such as Mega Charizard Y, Thundurus, Latios, and Latias, and swiftly OHKO them before they have chance to retaliate. Pursuit makes sure that frail special attackers can't just switch out, and is part of what makes Scarf Tyranitar great. Finally, being able to revenge kill +2 Bisharp and +2 Mega Pinsir is something that not many offensive Pokemon can do.

As for Heatran, similarily with Tyranitar, it has good bulk and finds quite a few of switch in chances, while being able to revenge kill most dangerous sweepers, such as Mega Pinsir, DD Dragonite after SR, NP Thundurus, SD Garchomp, etc. The main flaw of Heatran is that it lacks an utility, pivoting, or trapping move to be useful even when walled, so it really struggles if the opponent's defensive core is healthy.
 
My big qualm with scarfed scizor is that it's pretty slow even with the scarf (I generally consider heatran to be the min speed of a scarfer, as +speed heat can outspeed pos natured base 130s), If you want to use scizor as a defogger, may I recommend defensive megascizor? Roost and not being SR weak are wonderful tools for any defogger, u-turn allows it to act as a slow pivot, and for EVs you have the option of running more attack to make pivoting hurt more, more defense to have phys bulk that makes skarmory cry, and my personal choice, sp defense to make him pretty darn bulky on both ends of the spectrum. As for mamo, how does scarfed icicle crash compare to banded ice shard? I'm not sure if the small increase in damage and speed boost is worth losing priority and accuracy for. Fast EQs are always nice I guess. I like Alex's scarfed ideas though, I might even consider breaking my base 77 min rule to try out ttar.
 
I've been thinking offensive scarf still useful within infernape, diggersby, kyurem-b and excadrill.
I agree its usage has dropped and there's another option in instant power from band/specs.
Aside from that, scarf could be used on tricker and late game finishers that won't die from some priorities, example jirachi, latios, lucario and possibly chandelure (breloom may work with fast spore)
Because it is late, it won't be switching out many times anyway.
 
As far as scarfs go, I've been getting a kick out of infernape. OHKOing greninja, gengar, alakazam, pinsir (obviously watch out for the quick attack), and such is really nice, though now that lucarionite and genesect are both gone, it's niche is noticeably smaller
 
I meant to say, for a scarfer it is not hard, to outspeed and OHKO them.
Although I don't know how viable Scarf Infernape is and I'm not really discussing it, just saying that there are lots of pokemon who can outspeed and OHKO these mons with a scarf, not just Infernape. That was my point.
 
I meant to say, for a scarfer it is not hard, to outspeed and OHKO them.
Although I don't know how viable Scarf Infernape is and I'm not really discussing it, just saying that there are lots of pokemon who can outspeed and OHKO these mons with a scarf, not just Infernape. That was my point.
I mostly use it because I needed a fire type, didn't want to deal with SR, and thought Heatran was too slow. It was only after I realized that it had more utility than its SE STABs for scarf revenge killing. Since its moves are innately high bp and acc, it doesn't really need that much atk as, like you said, its targets are usually either frail, or hit by SE attacks
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top