Other Counter That Pokemon! (Final Battle Friday @ 12 PM EST)

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That Suicune is runs max defense. The real calc is,
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 203-239 (50.2 - 59.1%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery,
which is far less impressive.
The set was edited yesterday, to a Calm Nature with 252 evs in Special Defense. I had assumed it was Landorus-T, BurningFury101 pointed out the mistake and now the set has been edited to accommodate for Landorus-I.

This is the edited set:
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SpDef
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Rest
- Calm Mind
- Sleep Talk

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Suicune: 149-177 (36.8 - 43.8%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

Aragorn the King

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The set was edited yesterday, to a Calm Nature with 252 evs in Special Defense. I had assumed it was Landorus-T, BurningFury101 pointed out the mistake and now the set has been edited to accommodate for Landorus-I.

This is the edited set:
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SpDef
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Rest
- Calm Mind
- Sleep Talk

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Suicune: 149-177 (36.8 - 43.8%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Oh, okay. I'm not a fan of that set in general, but it is good against Lando. Sorry for the confusion.
 

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpDef / 8 Spe
Nature: Calm
- Air Slash
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
- Nasty Plot

IMO, a standard specially defensive Togekiss is all it takes in order to wall a Landorus set without Sludge Wave, here are the calcs:

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 32-39 (8.5 - 10.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 100-118 (26.8 - 31.6%) -- 53.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Life Orb Landorus U-turn vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 21-25 (5.6 - 6.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever


Meanwhile, Togekiss can threaten a 3HKO/2HKO with Air Slash and or set up a NP/Thunder Wave predicting a switch out.
 
The set was edited yesterday, to a Calm Nature with 252 evs in Special Defense. I had assumed it was Landorus-T, BurningFury101 pointed out the mistake and now the set has been edited to accommodate for Landorus-I.

This is the edited set:
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SpDef
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Rest
- Calm Mind
- Sleep Talk

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Suicune: 149-177 (36.8 - 43.8%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
To be honest, I really don't think this is a good idea. CroCune is fine in a regular OU team, but for this it just doesn't work. Picking it this early means for one that there's no way this set is ever gonna come close to sweeping, it will get up one Calm Mind at best. Secondly, more importantly, Team 1 will just pick a Gastrodon, Jellicent, Vaporeon, Kingdra or something like that, effectively neutralizing Suicune. Heck, even Water Absorb Politoed is enough to stop this. You should at least replace Calm Mind with another move for this to work for this Project.
 
Guys honestly I feel that instead if thinking a counter for landorus,we should pick a check here,as we know what the next 2 members are(coughTTar cough cough keldeo)so I think we should power the team up with a strong check which is A)Ice type or has Ice Type moves B)Water type or strong water coverage I think My vote will go to CBB(why did you have to steal my nomination?Anyway I will nominate Greninja with the following set,it needs to be careful of Keldeo though


Greninja Life Orb Timid (-atk +Spe)

~Hydro Pump

~Dark Pulse

~Ice Beam

~Extrasensory

Tailormade to check the core that team 1 will try to form,Hydro pump beats Lando and TTar,Keldeo is beaten by Extrasensory as I said,this is a check not a counter,I might try to fight HP Fighting somewhere but as greninja gets stab on everything this might be ok too
 
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Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
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The Tornadus-T suggestion is certainly interesting. It can technically recover SR damage, but SR + Psychic will still hurt it anyway, and Team 1 doesn't have a SR setter yet so I'm not sure how important it is to make sure that our counter isn't SR weak, but I definitely see your point. The only issue I have with Tornadus-T is that it lacks any form of recovery outside of Regenerator (not even having Leftovers recovery). On the other hand, Knock Off is super useful for anything that Team 1 can pick short of a Mega Pokemon, which then limits them later. So I think on the whole, this is a cool choice, and it will almost certainly be in my top 3, but I'd like to see more discussion on that.

Guys honestly I feel that instead if thinking a counter for landorus,we should pick a check here,as we know what the next 2 members are(coughTTar cough cough keldeo)so I think we should power the team up with a strong check which is A)Ice type or has Ice Type moves B)Water type or strong water coverage I think My vote will go to CBB(why did you have to steal my nomination?Anyway I will nominate Greninja with the following set,it needs to be careful of Keldeo though


Greninja Life Orb Timid (-atk +Spe)

~Hydro Pump

~Dark Pulse

~Ice Beam

~Extrasensory

Tailormade to check the core that team 1 will try to form,Hydro pump beats Lando and TTar,Keldeo is beaten by Extrasensory as I said,this is a check not a counter,I might try to fight HP Fighting somewhere but as greninja gets stab on everything this might be ok too
I'd actually like to disagree with this. Team 1 is not at all necessarily going to pick Keldeo or Tyranitar as its next partners, as we have two picks that Team 1 will have to counter themselves, and they should probably be a defensive and an offensive pick. However, I would like to get the defensive pick out of the way first. Team 2 NEEDS a good switch-in for Landorus, and Greninja just doesn't fit the bill. Next round, Greninja might be an ok choice (although I would still want something that can switch in at least once on landorus), but for now, I think a defensive pick is probably best for Team 2.
 
Btw could someone explain the EVs behind AV Tornadus-t? I don't understand the break-up(although I wholeheartedly agree with the suggestion).
 
The Tornadus-T suggestion is certainly interesting. It can technically recover SR damage, but SR + Psychic will still hurt it anyway, and Team 1 doesn't have a SR setter yet so I'm not sure how important it is to make sure that our counter isn't SR weak, but I definitely see your point. The only issue I have with Tornadus-T is that it lacks any form of recovery outside of Regenerator (not even having Leftovers recovery). On the other hand, Knock Off is super useful for anything that Team 1 can pick short of a Mega Pokemon, which then limits them later. So I think on the whole, this is a cool choice, and it will almost certainly be in my top 3, but I'd like to see more discussion on that.
Thanks! Also, what I see as the main benefit for Tornadus-T over other checks and counters, is that it avoids U-turn spam. For example, if Stealth Rock is up and Landorus comes in, for most other checks/counters that were mentioned, a simple U-turn would really wear it down when combined with Stealth Rock damage. For Tornadus-T, this isn't the case, as Regenerator actually heals him when he switches in on Stealth Rock, and while U-turn does a little damage, it is really not that much (less than what Landorus takes from Life Orb). Now I know that it is possible for the Landorus user to Psychic hoping to hit Tornadus-T on the switchin, but that means it loses the matchup advantage which means its Team 2's turn to U-turn and gain the advantage, Knock Off to cripple the switchin, or Hurricane to damage something. Also, if Stealth Rock isn't up, Tornadus-T can heal off any damage it takes from Psychic with Regenerator, and since it outspeeds if Tornadus-T is still alive and Stealth Rock is not up, Landorus is never able to break Tornadus-T. So all in all, it has the advantage over checks/counters when Stealth Rock is up imo, and when Stealth Rock isn't up it's a solid counter just like the others, with some advantages but with the disadvantage of no Roost. Also, I do feel that if we for example pick a Stealth Rock weak Pokémon to be our Landorus switchin, Team 1 will absolutely pick a reliable Stealth Rock user to support Landorus.

Btw could someone explain the EVs behind AV Tornadus-t? I don't understand the break-up(although I wholeheartedly agree with the suggestion).
They are just the standard EVs I took from Jukain's (iirc) post from the OU analysis thread, the Speed outspeeds Scarf Tyranitar which is really important, the EVs OHKO Keldeo without Stealth Rock, which even though Keldeo isn't in play is still a good benchmark. The rest goes in HP for more bulk. I didn't want to use a Hasty nature, the bulk is too important especially since I have no idea what Team 1 is more to use, and reduced damage from U-turn actually is noticable.

Edit: By the way, can people vote for their own sets in voting?
 
Just Scrap my last nomination,I found a much better one

Here it is,he can be useful Utility too at Halcyon,this is my first custom ev spread(courtesy your guide)


Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 180 SDef / 16 Spd / 64 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Defog


I will explain,248 HP is to maximise HP,while keeping a SR number,I realised I would lose my 16 speed if I tried to avoid 3HKO from psychic so I decided to lower it as much As I could,5.7% was where I capped,so I dumped the rest into sp.atk to get a jump number for it.How does this look.Halcyon?
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Just Scrap my last nomination,I found a much better one

Here it is,he can be useful Utility too at Halcyon,this is my first custom ev spread(courtesy your guide)


Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 180 SDef / 16 Spd / 64 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Defog


I will explain,248 HP is to maximise HP,while keeping a SR number,I realised I would lose my 16 speed if I tried to avoid 3HKO from psychic so I decided to lower it as much As I could,5.7% was where I capped,so I dumped the rest into sp.atk to get a jump number for it.How does this look.Halcyon?
It definitely looks like a decent nomination, but Chenkovsky already nominated the same Zapdos with a slightly different EV spread. Instead you could simply post saying that you think the EV spread on his Zapdos set should match yours, but when voting comes I won't include two Zapdos sets with the same moves. Still thank you for putting in work to try to come up with your own spread!
 
It definitely looks like a decent nomination, but Chenkovsky already nominated the same Zapdos with a slightly different EV spread. Instead you could simply post saying that you think the EV spread on his Zapdos set should match yours, but when voting comes I won't include two Zapdos sets with the same moves. Still thank you for putting in work to try to come up with your own spread!
Well yea,I calculated the Evs a bit more I think,Volt switch over T-bolt would that be good?
 
Great thing to come back to.
As much as I believe Dragonite is the only real choice here, Halcyon's set is pretty much a sitting duck against anything with reasonable bulk (only 11.7% chance to 2hko Landorus, for example) so I figured we should have some more offensive pressure.

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 24 SpD / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake

Pretty much just a more offensive variant of what Halcyon posted, just suffers from less survivability. Just an offensive option.
Regardless of which is preferred, it should be noted the choice of Dragonite not only stalls the momentum gained by Landorus but also almost forces Team 1 to choose either Skarmory, Mamoswine, or Kyurem-B. All are reasonably easy to counter and aren't Landorus' preferred partners.
 

ganj4lF

Nobody is safe from the power of science!
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Already a good amount of good suggestions, I don't really have a mon myself to suggest. While I'm trying to figure out what's our best bet against Lando, I'll go ahead and ask a quick question. Rosenfeldius 's AV Goodra, which is a pretty cool option at the moment (takes pittance from Lando, hits hard and with wide coverage in return, and is not Pursuit weak or SR weak) is currently running Gooey. Why shouldn't we run Sap Sipper on such a pokemon? Goodra's low base physical bulk means we're screwed most of the time regardless if a contact move hits, and Sap Sipper may be useful in discouraging Team 1 from getting Spore / Leech Seed users.
 
Already a good amount of good suggestions, I don't really have a mon myself to suggest. While I'm try. If g to figure out what's our best bet against Lando, I'll go ahead and ask a quick question. Rosenfeldius 's AV Goodra, which is a pretty cool option at the moment (takes pittance from Lando, hits hard and with wide coverage in return, and is not Pursuit weak or SR weak) is currently running Gooey. Why shouldn't we run Sap Sipper on such a pokemon? Goodra's low base physical bulk means we're screwed most of the time regardless if a contact move hits, and Sap Sipper may be useful in discouraging Team 1 from getting Spore / Leech Seed users.
I just didn't change it from the importable, since I think we'll need to see what the rest of the team will be before deciding which would be better. For example, if we have something weak to grass, it could be a good switch in with sap sipper, but I think gooey is overall more useful. It depends. I can change it to Sap Sipper if everyone would like, I'm not emotionally attached to gooey.

Edit: forgot about spore and leech seed. Yeah, I'll change it to Sap Sipper
 
I really like both Goodra and Dragonite submits, both with their weaknesses, but I think Nite's offensive presence is more useful here, although without recovery he will have less oportunities to do its job, while Goodra counters Lando better and T2 have a OK special wall but, again, no recovery.
 
Can we make more than one nomination?If not,I will scrap this if yes I will edit this so as it to not be a one liner
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
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Can we make more than one nomination?If not,I will scrap this if yes I will edit this so as it to not be a one liner
You only get to nominate one Pokemon, but if you would like to scrap your last nomination and nominate a new one that is perfectly fine.
 
I don't see many more submissions being made, and I don't want this thread to die out, so I suggest we start voting now. I, of course, cast my vote for Assault Vest Goodra.
 
I think my previous post got lost in the nominations, so for the sake of discussion, I'll again say I am behind the Thundurus set suggested by Mowtom . Thundurus is one of only two non-mega S ranked threats in OU, and it can cripple almost any offensive threat that Team 1 picks with Thunder Wave. It prevents Team 1 from picking Mega Pinsir, Specs Keldeo, Manaphy, and a good number of slower defensive threats. Thundurus is not only a great check to Landorus; it also puts an immense amount of pressure on Team 1 to adequately respond.
 
Specs Keldeo is a hit n run poke, comes into something it threatens and attack, if thundurus comes in, switch. Nothing really relevant but...
 
Thundurus can check Landorus once if it switches into Psychic, Landorus can switch out and your Thundurus is almost useless after that outside of T Waving a sweeper after it kills smth.

Dragonite and AV Torny-T are both solid choices, I'll have to give it to Torny-T though as it has more utility and is much faster.

Just thought of something:

AV Tangrowth
move 1: Giga Drain
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Hidden Power Ice
ability: Regenerator
item: Assault Vest
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

It takes any move from Lando quite well, recovers on switching out and threatens it with HP Ice or switch ins with Knock Off.
 
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Mowtom

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I think my previous post got lost in the nominations, so for the sake of discussion, I'll again say I am behind the Thundurus set suggested by Mowtom . Thundurus is one of only two non-mega S ranked threats in OU, and it can cripple almost any offensive threat that Team 1 picks with Thunder Wave. It prevents Team 1 from picking Mega Pinsir, Specs Keldeo, Manaphy, and a good number of slower defensive threats. Thundurus is not only a great check to Landorus; it also puts an immense amount of pressure on Team 1 to adequately respond.
Thanks! One minor nitpick though: The list of S-rank mons has been changed. Deoxys-S is now S rank, while Mega Pinsir fell to A+.
 
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