OU Roserade

Srn

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Credit to Plus for the original thread I decided to work off of.


Overview
########

With colorful flowers for hands, a heroic cape, and some really weird hair, Roserade plays a unique role in the OU tier as an offensive Spiker. Access to Spikes and Toxic Spikes along with a solid base 125 Special Attack stat allows Roserade to play this role effectively. Its ability, Technician, effectively gives it access to a Hidden Power of any type with a solid 90 Base Power. Thanks to new breeding mechanics, the previously illegal combination of Sleep Powder and Spikes is now legal, letting Roserade shut down a Pokemon while stacking Spikes. Roserade can sponge a special hit or two as well thanks to its decent base 105 Special Defense and Grass / Poison typing, which offers handy resistances to Water-, Fighting-, Electric-, Grass-, and Fairy-type moves.

However, there are several flaws that prevent Roserade from becoming OU's premier entry hazard setter. Base 90 Speed is lackluster for an offensive Pokemon, and it prevents Roserade from beating several threats such as Landorus-T and Manaphy. Roserade is also weak to some very common attacking types in the current OU metagame, such as Ice, Fire, and Flying. This issue is further worsened by its pitiful base 60 HP and base 65 Defense, which leaves it unable to stomach almost any physical STAB move. Roserade also faces plenty of competition for the role of laying hazards from Pokemon such as Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, and Klefki. Despite these flaws, Roserade's offensive presence, access to Sleep Powder, and ability to stack Spikes make it a great pick for offensive teams.

Offensive Spikes
########

name: Offensive Spikes
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Leaf Storm
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
ability: Technician
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
ivs: 29 HP
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Spikes is one of the main reasons Roserade is used, racking up residual damage and punishing any switch-ins. Sleep Powder is used to incapacitate a Pokemon for a majority of the match and can be very useful in shutting down Pokemon that are difficult for your team to break or handle. Leaf Storm is the strongest move in Roserade's arsenal, doing big damage to any Pokemon that doesn't resist it. Hidden Power Fire nails Pokemon looking to absorb the Sleep Powder or try and take Leaf Storm. Sludge Bomb is an option over Hidden Power Fire, as it can 2HKO Mandibuzz and Mega Venusaur, both of which are common switch-ins to absorb Sleep Powder. However, the loss in coverage generally isn't worth it. Giga Drain is a more consistent option over Leaf Storm, but the loss in power is very noticeable and Roserade is too frail to stick around long.

Set Details
========

Maximum investment in Speed and Special Attack with a Life Orb helps get down Spikes as fast as possible while giving Roserade the power needed to hit switch-ins hard. Technician's boost to Hidden Power Fire is invaluable, and should always be used over Natural Cure. Without it, Roserade doesn't OHKO Mega Scizor, Skarmory, Mega Mawile, Lucario, Bisharp, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, and Mega Pinsir or 2HKO Aegislash after Stealth Rock. 29 HP IVs are used to minimize Life Orb recoil. Note that the number of HP IVs does not affect the type of Hidden Power.

Usage Tips
========

The first objective when using Roserade is to cripple a Pokemon by putting it to sleep. If there is a Pokemon on the opponent's team that can absorb Sleep Powder, Roserade is better off setting Spikes or trying to nail the switch-in with powerful attacks. Roserade is a powerful but rather frail Pokemon that shouldn't be sacrificed early on, so only set Spikes on predicted switches. It should be switched in only on resisted special hits, as it is frail. Leaf Storm should always be Roserade's main attacking option, and Hidden Power Fire should handle most Pokemon attempting to cushion the Leaf Storm, such as Ferrothorn and Aegislash.

Team Options
========

Roserade's best teammates will generally be offensive threats that offer good synergy and appreciate the residual damage from Spikes. Talonflame is one of these, and Roserade can beat Rotom-W for it. Keldeo applies much more pressure on its checks with the extra entry hazards. Rotom-W checks the Fire-type Pokemon that switch in on Roserade and grabs momentum with Volt Switch. A Defiant or Competitive user, such as Bisharp, Thundurus, or Milotic, can switch in on a Defog attempt to remove Spikes and punish the opposing team with powerful boosted attacks. Heatran is a more defensive teammate that can set Stealth Rock on Talonflame and damage Grass-types with Lava Plume, while Roserade can set up Spikes on bulky Water-type Pokemon. Skarmory can take on several Pokemon that threaten Roserade, such as Mega Pinsir and Mamoswine, but be sure not to Defog away your own hazards.

Other Options
########

A defensive Spikes-stacking set is an option, but this is mostly outclassed by Chesnaught, as Roserade does not have great bulk and loses to several users of Defog. Shadow Ball can offer powerful neutral coverage and hit Aegislash, but Aegislash is already hit harder by Hidden Power Fire and Shadow Ball leaves Roserade helpless against some Steel-type Pokemon, most notably Bisharp. Roserade can use Aromatherapy or even run a SubSeed set, but it is largely outclassed in these roles by Chansey and Gourgeist-S. A double Powder set can be used to catch switch-ins off-guard, but the loss of offensive coverage isn't worth it. A Choice Scarf set can revenge kill Pokemon such as Greninja, Manaphy, and Mega Gyarados, but it is outclassed by Garchomp and Excadrill. Roserade also has access to Rain Dance and Sunny Day, but due to its general frailty, it isn't the best choice for a weather setter. Hidden Power Rock can be used to catch the usual Fire-type and some Dragon-type switch-ins off guard, but the loss in coverage generally isn't worth it.

Checks & Counters
########

**Fire-types**: Strong Fire-type Pokemon, like Heatran, Talonflame, and the Mega Charizard formes have little trouble switching in and roasting Roserade with powerful attacks, although the latter two must be wary of Sludge Bomb or Hidden Power Rock.

**Strong Physical Attackers**: Roserade's Defense is very low, so physical attackers such as Dragonite, Excadrill, and Garchomp can easily 2HKO Roserade with almost any move.

**Special Walls and Assault Vest users**: Roserade cannot hope to dent special walls such as Chansey or Heatran, and Assault Vest users like Goodra and Conkeldurr can handle Roserade's attacks as well. Assault Vest Excadrill can also remove Spikes that Roserade sets with Rapid Spin.

**Dragon-types**: Dragon-types that resist Grass-, such as Latias, Latios, Dragonite, Kyurem-B, Goodra, and Mega Charizard X, can generally do a good job against Roserade, although they must be wary of a powerful Sludge Bomb.

**Powder-Immune Pokemon**: Mega Venusaur and Mandibuzz can absorb a Sleep Powder and sponge any other attacks Roserade can use, but both must watch out for Sludge Bomb, which can 2HKO them.
 
Last edited:
The sets in Plus's original analysis should be the ones included as they have all been tested to be viable. This includes a specially Defensive set.
 

Srn

Water (Spirytus - 96%)
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I wasn't able to see that before it got deleted, is it possible you could send me a link to that or something? It would be easier to get the slashes directly from there instead of having QC members tell me again.
 

Srn

Water (Spirytus - 96%)
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Ok, the entire analysis has been updated to include what Plus did, along with some corrections I made myself (Aegislash isn't a good spinblocker b/c it loses to the only spinner :P )
Thanks Swamp Link for providing his analysis for me to work off of.
 
All right, so the new strategy dex is going up very soon and there are several Pokemon, including this one, that do not currently have completed analyses. Srn9130, if you could please try to make this look presentable within the next day, that would be helpful. Please contact user darkie once you've made it look presentable (by that I mean "acceptable to be on-site") and refer to and update this pirate pad: https://www.piratepad.ca/p/dex_skeletons

This needs to be done by tomorrow afternoon (GMT -6), so make sure you get it done! If you can't make it look presentable in the next day, please say so in the pirate pad so someone else can make a quick skeleton of it. Thanks!
 

Jukain

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Okay Srn9130

Make Technician the only slash on offensive Roserade. Roserade is already immune to powder moves and Toxic. The only things threatening to it are...Thundurus's Prankster TWave and Scald burns? I mean, sure, Natural Cure can make it a burn absorber, but Techinician lets HP Fire achieve so many KOs:
  • OHKO on bulky Mega Scizor
  • OHKO on Skarmory (with Sturdy broken, naturally)
  • OHKO on Mega Mawile after SR or 1 layer of Spikes (set up by Roserade itself)
  • OHKO on Lucario
  • OHKO on Bisharp
  • OHKO on Excadrill
  • OHKO on Ferrothorn after SR or 1 layer of Spikes
  • 2HKO on max HP Aegislash
  • OHKO on Mega Pinsir
  • Pressure on Mega Venusaur (does about half including SR)
These are all way too important to give up Technician for.

I would also like to see some mention of Sludge Bomb. It 2HKOes max HP Mega Venusaur. It 2HKOes Mandibuzz looking to absorb the Sleep Powder. Additionally, it 2HKOes Kyurem-B, a top switch-in to Roserade, and OHKOes physically defensive Clefable.. Definitely a move with some pretty significant uses.

Also, I really don't get the appeal of Focus Sash. There are plenty of other suicide leads that are way more consistent at getting up hazards -- Roserade is not one of them. Roserade also has the potential to be useful throughout the game with its LO-boosted base 125 SpA Leaf Storms/Technician-boosted HP Fires. I would never just sack Roserade like that. I'd make Life Orb the only slash -- Roserade especially needs it to achieve a lot of KOs, including all the aforementioned ones and an OHKO on max HP Tyranitar and standard DD Mega Tyranitar after SR or 1 layer of Spikes.

Not sure how good TSpikes on SDef Roserade with how crappy they are atm (Mega Venu is common, Steels/Levitators/Flyings are everywhere, Defog/Exca spin are everywhere). I would drop them down to 'Moves' instead of a main slash.

On SDef Roserade, I'm not sure what those EVs do, but I'd make them 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SpD (still Calm) to avoid the 2HKO from Keldeo's Specs Secret Sword after SR. It's kind of a disappointing answer to Keldeo in that it's 2HKOed by HP Flying/Icy Wind, but at least with this spread it can switch into its STABs.

Finally, make sure to emphasize why the hell you'd use this over Mega Venu. And Skarm is a great partner because it can deal with Mega Pinsir, Mamoswine, etc.

QC Approved 1/3
 

Srn

Water (Spirytus - 96%)
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A couple questions...

Where should I slash Sludge Bomb on the offensive spread? Should it just be slashed with Hp fire?
Should I mention the OHKOs/2HKOs that you get with the technician boost, or is it enough to say "natural cure isn't worth it."
 

Jukain

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A couple questions...

Where should I slash Sludge Bomb on the offensive spread? Should it just be slashed with Hp fire?
Should I mention the OHKOs/2HKOs that you get with the technician boost, or is it enough to say "natural cure isn't worth it."
Mention the OHKOs/2HKOs. And I wouldn't slash Sludge Bomb, it's a pretty big sacrifice of coverage even though it is useful. Just mention it in 'Moves'.
 

Srn

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Mention the OHKOs/2HKOs. And I wouldn't slash Sludge Bomb, it's a pretty big sacrifice of coverage even though it is useful. Just mention it in 'Moves'.
Everything has been implemented, thanks!
 
Has reliable recovery in either Synthesis or Rest+Natural Cure.
This isn't a big deal worthy of being in the overview, considering Roserade doesn't make great use of it anyway.
evs: 4HP / 252 SpA / Spe
I know what you mean, but fix that.
Life Orb gives you a lot more power, and Giga Drain can be used over Leaf Storm to recover the recoil as an alternative.
The Giga Drain comment is better placed in Moves.

A Usage Tip about Sleep Powder would be very helpful.

I don't think a defensive Spikes set is very viable. The offensive set can function outside of hazards, but considering that Roserade loses to a lot of Defoggers and is a pretty bad defensive Pokemon when stuff like Mega Venusaur is available, I don't believe it's effective. I would rather that just be moved to OO, unless anyone else thinks it's very worthwhile.

You can expand Checks and Counters with stuff like Mandibuzz and Pinsir.
 

Srn

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This isn't a big deal worthy of being in the overview, considering Roserade doesn't make great use of it anyway.

I know what you mean, but fix that.

The Giga Drain comment is better placed in Moves.

A Usage Tip about Sleep Powder would be very helpful.

I don't think a defensive Spikes set is very viable. The offensive set can function outside of hazards, but considering that Roserade loses to a lot of Defoggers and is a pretty bad defensive Pokemon when stuff like Mega Venusaur is available, I don't believe it's effective. I would rather that just be moved to OO, unless anyone else thinks it's very worthwhile.

You can expand Checks and Counters with stuff like Mandibuzz and Pinsir.
Mandibuzz 2HKO'd by Life Orb Sludge Bomb, and obviously can't kill back.
Also, just to clarify, this means remove the defensive set and move it to OO right?
(and as of now, I need one more QC check before i start writing it up b/c of update.)
 
Mandibuzz 2HKO'd by Life Orb Sludge Bomb, and obviously can't kill back.
Also, just to clarify, this means remove the defensive set and move it to OO right?
(and as of now, I need one more QC check before i start writing it up b/c of update.)
Well, Mandibuzz beats sets with HP Fire, which is more common, at least. It's a good way to deal with it, and I'd prefer you put more things that can beat it with HP Fire in C&C, like Mega Venusaur. You can mention they lose to Sludge Bomb, but they don't need to be 100% ways to beat.

Yeah, move Defensive to OO.
 

Srn

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Well, Mandibuzz beats sets with HP Fire, which is more common, at least. It's a good way to deal with it, and I'd prefer you put more things that can beat it with HP Fire in C&C, like Mega Venusaur. You can mention they lose to Sludge Bomb, but they don't need to be 100% ways to beat.

Yeah, move Defensive to OO.
All right everything has been implemented
 
Has reliable recovery in either Synthesis
You forgot to take this out.
Natural Cure makes it a good status absorber.
Remove from Overview, the only set uses Technician.

Also, add a Usage Tip about Sleep Powder. Something like "It's usually better to use Sleep Powder first unless you expect them to switch into something immune, or their only checks to Roserade are slower than it. In these cases you should use Spikes or attack first."

Do these and you can consider yourself

Stamp.gif


QC 2/4
 
Can I just throw out the viability of a Choice Scarf set with Technician? Scarf Leaf Storm is a great answer for Manaphy, Keldeo, Terrakion, Greninja, and +1 Mega Gyarados. HP Rock can get Charizard Y, Adamant Charizard X at +1, Thundurus and Tornadus-T. There's also the option of Shadow Ball for Gengar and Alakazam, and Dazzling Gleam for Latios and +1 Dragonite. It's a great offensive check that with Technician Hidden Power can be tailored to handle specific pokemon that give your team trouble. I think it should at least be mentioned.
 

Aragorn the King

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Can I just throw out the viability of a Choice Scarf set with Technician? Scarf Leaf Storm is a great answer for Manaphy, Keldeo, Terrakion, Greninja, and +1 Mega Gyarados. HP Rock can get Charizard Y, Adamant Charizard X at +1, Thundurus and Tornadus-T. There's also the option of Shadow Ball for Gengar and Alakazam, and Dazzling Gleam for Latios and +1 Dragonite. It's a great offensive check that with Technician Hidden Power can be tailored to handle specific pokemon that give your team trouble. I think it should at least be mentioned.
I was just going to suggest that. Scarf Roserade, With Leaf Storm, HP Fire, Dazzling Gleam, and Sludge Bomb makes an excellent revenge killer and late game cleaner.

Also, on the LO set, move the 4 EV's from HP to Defense to minimize hazard, burn, and Life Orb recoil.
 

Srn

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I was just going to suggest that. Scarf Roserade, With Leaf Storm, HP Fire, Dazzling Gleam, and Sludge Bomb makes an excellent revenge killer and late game cleaner.

Also, on the LO set, move the 4 EV's from HP to Defense to minimize hazard, burn, and Life Orb recoil.
Oh, thanks for reminding me! I think I thought about checking before, but I did it now and 29 ivs in HP, with zero evs ofc, gives you 259 HP, which rounds down LO recoil, so getting that number would actually be ideal. I'll be changing that right now.
 

Aragorn the King

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Oh, thanks for reminding me! I think I thought about checking before, but I did it now and 29 ivs in HP, with zero evs ofc, gives you 259 HP, which rounds down LO recoil, so getting that number would actually be ideal. I'll be changing that right now.
Also, I'm pretty terrible regarding Hidden Powers. However, on Showdown, the default HP fire is 30 Attack / 30 Special Attack / 30 Speed. Are you sure your IV's work? Tbh I have no clue :P

What would be ideal is to reduce your attack to its lowest possible value, and then make sure your HP is odd.
 

Srn

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Also, I'm pretty terrible regarding Hidden Powers. However, on Showdown, the default HP fire is 30 Attack / 30 Special Attack / 30 Speed. Are you sure your IV's work? Tbh I have no clue :P

What would be ideal is to reduce your attack to its lowest possible value, and then make sure your HP is odd.
Yeah, the number of IVs in HP doesn't actually affect the hidden power, so we're good.
 
An IV spread of 29 HP / 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe keeps the HP Fire, the LO number, and makes the Attack as low as possible. Thank Arceus that all Hidden Powers are 60 base power now. That probably needs to be put into the analysis where it currently just says 29 HP.
 

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