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Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers (Read the OP First!)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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Probally going to go for U-Turn over SD since momentum=good
Completely random question:
I remember when XY was first released, people were really excited about Parting Shot because it was believed that decreasing a foe's attacking stats would create a great opportunity for another poke to come in safely.
The other day, I was just thinking: Is any stat-decreasing move completely not viable/obsolete? I don't mean moves that decrease only one stage like growl or string-shot... I was thinking more about moves that will drastically decrease a stat, such as Scary Face, Fake Tears, Charm, Feather Dance.. etc...
I realize that most pokemon might have better moves to fill a moveslot with, but was just trying to think out of the box a little bit. Even if the opposing pokemon can easily switch out, seems like you'd gain momentum or create some head games... Forcing them to switch out instead of attacking, making it easier for another pokemon to switch in, etc.
I remember when XY was first released, people were really excited about Parting Shot because it was believed that decreasing a foe's attacking stats would create a great opportunity for another poke to come in safely.
The other day, I was just thinking: Is any stat-decreasing move completely not viable/obsolete? I don't mean moves that decrease only one stage like growl or string-shot... I was thinking more about moves that will drastically decrease a stat, such as Scary Face, Fake Tears, Charm, Feather Dance.. etc...
I realize that most pokemon might have better moves to fill a moveslot with, but was just trying to think out of the box a little bit. Even if the opposing pokemon can easily switch out, seems like you'd gain momentum or create some head games... Forcing them to switch out instead of attacking, making it easier for another pokemon to switch in, etc.
They're not "completely unviable", but it's hard to find a use for them. I remember in 4th gen, Flygon had a set in analysis that focused around Screech, which decreases Def by 2 stages.
Moves like Memento on the other hand are very viable and open up a really big opportunity for Pokemon to set-up.
They have seen some use in older generation's when Pokemon had extremely terrible movepools such as generation 1 Golbat which used Screech. However moves like Swords Dance and Nasty Plot have always been better because the opponent can't just switch out to ignore the boosts ( Unless a Pokemon with Unaware but whatever). They could have been used in combination with loads of hazards to force switches and rack up damage but since Defog that is basically impossible. You can use those moves but it is not recommended and moves like Swords Dance are always preferred.
Feather Dance and Charm are sometimes seen, but mainly only in doubles. The thing is it's just more useful to boost your own stats than decrease the opponent's because then you control when the stat changes go away. For example, instead of using scary face, use rock polish or agility. Generally the way to force a switch is to bring in a wall or counter, or to boost your own stats, not to lower the opponent's stats.
Thanks for the feedback. I fully agree with your points. There is no question that self-boosting moves such as Sword's Dance and Nasty Plot are superior.
However, I admit that I'm still curious whether it's possible to make them useful in a team. I haven't done any work on this yet (such as researching pokemons and moves), but in my mind, I kind of wonder whether offensive-decreasing moves (such as Feather-dance, noble roar, or eerie impulse) could find use in a stall team. Stall teams usually work by forcing switches anyways and winning through hazards and toxic. I just wonder if by lowering the opposing pokemons' offense would be useful in 1) reducing the amount of damage my team will take, 2) encouraging them to switch to remove them, and 3) making it easier for my team to switch in an appropriate counter or even to re-lay hazards.
Again, I know most stall teams will usually have something better to do than to use Charm/Feather Dance, but it would be an interesting team-building exercise.
However, I admit that I'm still curious whether it's possible to make them useful in a team. I haven't done any work on this yet (such as researching pokemons and moves), but in my mind, I kind of wonder whether offensive-decreasing moves (such as Feather-dance, noble roar, or eerie impulse) could find use in a stall team. Stall teams usually work by forcing switches anyways and winning through hazards and toxic. I just wonder if by lowering the opposing pokemons' offense would be useful in 1) reducing the amount of damage my team will take, 2) encouraging them to switch to remove them, and 3) making it easier for my team to switch in an appropriate counter or even to re-lay hazards.
Again, I know most stall teams will usually have something better to do than to use Charm/Feather Dance, but it would be an interesting team-building exercise.
The only mon I can think of that uses Feather Dance would be eviolite Murkrow with Prankster, that thing is pretty annoying. Not too good synergy wise but feather dance + tailwind could be a decent support set
Rocky Helmet Mandibuzz or Skarmory.
Is there anything that comes close to Greninja's effectiveness as a special attacking coverage machine? What's the next best option?
Landorus Incarnate
Are there any decent rapid spinners that can benefit from/do well on rain teams and doesn't get destroyed by boltbeam? I'm considering Kabutops at the moment, but open to other suggestions. Has to be OU btw.
If you need a spinner that's not excadrill then check yo self.
Thanks for the help, really appreciate it.
It's fair though, excadrill is pretty much the only fully viable spinner. If you really want to run forretress you can but its sub par at best
Pokemon with Rapid Spin who do well on rain teams and don´t get destroyed by boltbeam?:Eh... Most are Water types... like Starmie,Tentacruel,Blastoise are the most notable ones but i don´t find anything that does not get destroyed by "BoltBeam"
If you look outside ou hitmontop is bulky specially (can even run assault vest) and gets intimidate for the physical side
On another note, whats an optimal ev spread and moveset for a careful char x (besides roost+WOW)?
There's nothing really that fits your criteria. Excadrill is the only spinner in OU (otherwise I would say Forretress, as it's the only spinner that really benefits from the rain without being water type; though even then it's pretty meh), and he's both helped and harmed by the rain because he's weak to both fire and water.
Starmie, Tenacruel, and Blastoise are all UU.
Also, Kabutops is RU.
Are there any defoggers that work well with Dragonite then?
Mandibuzz works well with Dnite
Starmie would probably be your best bet as it's not OU but it's OU viable. It also really benefits from the rain because it has both Thunder and Hydro Pump, and can also threaten special walls that would normally wall it with Psyshock. It's weak to Electric-type moves, but it makes sure that you don't waste as many turns switching, which is important, especially on a rain team. Seismitoad isn't a Rapid Spinner, but rather a Swift Swimmer, but it also would alleviate a weakness to BoltBeam.
I don't really know of any defoggers that are good with Dragonite though.
I don't really know of any defoggers that are good with Dragonite though.
I have two questions that go hand in hand:
1) I haven't played a pokemon game since Silver back on the gbc. With many players having access to pokebank and the moves and pokemon that come with it, am I going to be at a huge disadvantage if I attempt to begin competative battling starting at x/y? Am I going to be hamstrung in terms of the teams I am able to make since my access to the previous games is non existence?
2) How long does it actually take to breed a battle worthy (ie at least 5IV) pokemon? I hear people say it's 'easy' or 'not that long', but I never a rough estimate and I was hoping to get a more concrete answer to see if I have the time to put into making a competitive team.
Thanks for the help in advance!
1) I haven't played a pokemon game since Silver back on the gbc. With many players having access to pokebank and the moves and pokemon that come with it, am I going to be at a huge disadvantage if I attempt to begin competative battling starting at x/y? Am I going to be hamstrung in terms of the teams I am able to make since my access to the previous games is non existence?
2) How long does it actually take to breed a battle worthy (ie at least 5IV) pokemon? I hear people say it's 'easy' or 'not that long', but I never a rough estimate and I was hoping to get a more concrete answer to see if I have the time to put into making a competitive team.
Thanks for the help in advance!
248 hp / 140 spD / 120 Spe
speed evs outspeed jolly megatar to burn it before it stone edges or sets up on you.
1.) If you have no access to trade or no intent to trade, then it may be a tad harder for you to get back into it, as you won't be getting some of the OU legends that other people have access to, as well as a few moves. Other than that, not too much of a disadvantage, more so just a mild nuisance.
2.) It all depends on a variety of factors, such as what starting parents you have, be it a 6IV Ditto and the original Mon you want to breed or if you are starting from scratch. If you are using a 6 IV Ditto, it is quite easy, under 10 eggs max to get a 5IV Pokemon, though getting the perfect IV spread or a 6IV one could take a few more eggs. If starting from scratch, it can be a bit more time consuming. Starting off with both parents having 2 IVs in different stats (Parent one having, say HP and Att. and parent two having Def. and Speed.) could take a bit longer, not sure the exact egg count, but should not take more than an hour of rigorous breeding, unless you unfortunately have horrible luck, in which case, it may be time to get a 6IV Ditto.
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