Pokémon Gourgeist

[nvmvoidrays]

i love gourgeist. i'm disappointed that she isn't a specially-attacking 'mon, especially with her awesome special movepool, but, what can you do?

is there a consensus about the whole careful vs impish schtick? i've been using:

Yvvone (Gourgeist-Super) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Shadow Sneak / Phantom Force / Flame Charge
- Seed Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed

i like this set 'cuz it balances out her two defenses perfectly, since, a lot of the people that'll switch into her seem to be special or the occasional mixed attackers, so, investing into impish plus 252 Def will get her obliterated.

what would be a good secondary item to run on her, if, i want to move my leftovers to another 'mon? sitrus berry?

 

[thelandlordsmm]

Large Gourgeist can outspeed and WoW Scizor with no investment, but Super can't. The 10 HP difference probably makes a big difference in bulk, but the extra Speed probably comes in hand for certain Pokes.

... then again, you'd probably be better off running Speed EVs on Gourgeist Super for Scizor, rather than running Large. You could take the EVs from Defense, which would probably result in better bulk than Large has.

Super Gourgeist needs 92 speed evs to outspeed 0 speed Scizor, leaving only 164 EVs for Defense:

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 127-150 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- 37.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Meanwhile Large Gourgeist doesn't need any speed EVs to outspeed 0 Speed Scizor, so it can put everything into HP and DEF:

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Large: 118-141 (33.3 - 39.8%) -- 23.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So if your goal is to outspeed and burn Scizor, you're (very) slightly better off going with Large instead of dumping speed EVs into Super. This surprised me...

 

[Shroomisaur]

Super Gourgeist needs 92 speed evs to outspeed 0 speed Scizor, leaving only 164 EVs for Defense:

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 127-150 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- 37.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Meanwhile Large Gourgeist doesn't need any speed EVs to outspeed 0 Speed Scizor, so it can put everything into HP and DEF:

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Large: 118-141 (33.3 - 39.8%) -- 23.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So if your goal is to outspeed and burn Scizor, you're (very) slightly better off going with Large instead of dumping speed EVs into Super. This surprised me...

EDIT: You're right, Large can actually have an ever-so-slight edge on Super if beating min Scizor is important to you, good call. The tradeoff is of course the lower attack. I still wouldn't exactly call that a niche, but it's worth noting!

 

[thelandlordsmm]

This is false because Large has lower base HP than Super. Even if you want to beat Scizor as Super Size, you can subtract the 92 Speed EVs from HP and have exactly the same stats as a Large Gourgeist with 252/252+.

There's no "niche" or anything to Average or Large sizes overall because Super Size and Small size can simply change their EV spreads to match them.

Umm... I don't mean to nitpick, but Large has 354 HP at 252 EVs, and Super has 352 HP at 166 EVs (258 - 92 needed for speed). With the exact same defense stats, Large is VERY SLIGHTLY more bulky than Super if you're trying to outspeed Scizor.

Also, Large can move 12 EVs over to speed to outpace 0 speed Skarmory and Metagross. This would put it at 352 HP. Same bulk as your 166/252/92 Super, but sits at 177 speed, where Super sits at 167. On the other hand, Super has 236 attack vs. 226 attack for Large.

Thus, if you're trying to outspeed certain things while still maintaining bulk, Large is the way to go.

 

[Puyol13]

I'm thinking of using Gourgeist(small) for a mono-grass team, specifically as a spinblocker/Scizor/Talonflame counter.
The current idea is for a scarf tricker, running trick, fire blast, rock slide, and will-o-wisp. I was wondering if anyone could suggest a nature/EV spread? (Or moveset/size changes?)
Rest of the team is Mega-Venusaur, Technician Breloom, Spiker Chesnaught, Standard Ferrothorn, and SubSeed Ludicolo.
(first post, so apologies if there are better forums for this question)

 

[acestriker19]

I've been running Trick Room Gourgeist for a while and found it decent but its main issue was its lack of offensive presence made me blow it up early against dangerous special sweepers such as sub + CM latias not to mention Mixislash completely destroyed me. Besides that Trick Room teams always have issues with specific walls Mega-Venasuar and Heatran for instance. I also found Gourgeist's uninvested defense when combined with its lack of recovery to be terrible at reliably setting up trick room multiple times.

Excadrill one of the most prominent mons I switch Gourgeist into yet it cannot be switched into nearly as easily when uninvested.

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 58-69 (15.5 - 18.4%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 93-111 (24.8 - 29.6%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gourgeist-Super: 78-92 (20.8 - 24.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Gourgeist-Super: 124-147 (33.1 - 39.3%) -- 14.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

While that extra 10% may not seem like much it means Gourgeist will be unable to reliably switch into Excadrill again so Gourgeist will have to prematurely explode. Arceus forbid your offensive gourgeist gets the 30% chance of iron head flinch.

The main issue is running max Def. is explosion does not hit nearly hard enough to be worthwhile to waste a moveslot on. I think that running Destiny Bond on Trick Room Gourgeist can yield more bang for your buck in terms of committing Trick Room seppuku.

Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Destiny Bond
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak

Intelligent usage of Destiny Bond can be way more helpful than Explosion ever could. Destiny Bond can be used to take out things that even max Atk. Explosion could not OHKO:

252+ Atk Normal Gem Gourgeist-Super Explosion vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 154-181 (39.8 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Normal Gem Gourgeist-Super Explosion vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 271-319 (74.4 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Normal Gem Gourgeist-Super Explosion vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 244-288 (67.4 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Normal Gem Gourgeist-Super Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 180-212 (64 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
also Aegislash but I don't need a calc on that one :P

Intelligent usage of Destiny Bond allows Gourgeist to be run defensive EVs while not losing out any suicidal power. While some of these mons like Mega-Venasaur can be knocked out with your trick room sweeper destiny bond makes it so you only need one turn to KO it instead of explosion turn plus revenge kill turn. Things like Heatran are walls that Trick Room teams have difficulty defeating but by using Destiny Bond intelligently Gourgeist can kill the largest wall to your Trick Room sweep where Explosion can at best 2HKO these same physical walls.

As a clarification of Destiny Bond mechanics Destiny Bond remains in effect until the Destiny Bond user uses a different move. This means that on the occasions that Gourgeist is out on the last turn of Trick Room the situation becomes win-win for the user. Your opponent either kills Gourgeist and dies with him or allows Gourgeist to set up Trick Room again.

Not to mention the psychological implications destiny bond has on your opponent if you end up revealing it prematurely. An opponent when faced with a destiny bond user will most likely attempt to status the user and will most likely not go for attacking moves. Trick Room teams happen to have some of the best Status sponges in the tier in Conkeldurr and Reuniclus and even if you don't use one these the ability to guarantee a safe switch into a Trick Room Sweeper on a toxic or a special sweeper on a burn is excellent.

 

[skies]

I'm thinking of using Gourgeist(small) for a mono-grass team, specifically as a spinblocker/Scizor/Talonflame counter.
The current idea is for a scarf tricker, running trick, fire blast, rock slide, and will-o-wisp. I was wondering if anyone could suggest a nature/EV spread? (Or moveset/size changes?)
Rest of the team is Mega-Venusaur, Technician Breloom, Spiker Chesnaught, Standard Ferrothorn, and SubSeed Ludicolo.
(first post, so apologies if there are better forums for this question)

How is it in anyway a counter to Talonflame?
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Small: 294-348 (93.6 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

 

[PumpkabooProfessor]

I used to run a Sunny Day Super-Sized Gourgeist with Flame Charge for speed boost and Solarbeam, plus Phantom Force for some STAB, and though it worked marvelously in the Battle Institute, competitively it was a rare circumstance if I got the Sunny Day on and more often than not I'd find myself hiding from the opponent with a Phantom Force while awaiting inevitable defeat. I'm now experimenting with Choice Scarf to try and make a decent set that offsets my chunky pumpkin's terrible speed stats. So far I've got:

Flame Charge
Seed Bomb
Phantom Force
Trick-or-Treat

I'd go with flamethrower, but his attack stat is so much better than his spec. attack, plus even though it isn't a STAB move, getting on extra speed on top of the choice scarf? It might be worth looking into. Plus Trick-or-Treat for some shenanigans, especially in double battle. Ghost/Normal ally? Oh yes. I like this.

Ideas? Suggestions? Do I suck at this?

 

[Toad0234]

I'd probably go with trick instead of Trick-Or-Treat with a choice set, it'll get a relatively fast trick off which you can use to cripple a wall, take its leftovers, and then get a speed boost from flame charge as they switch out if you're insistent on using that attack. You now have healing, a speed boost, and you've crippled one of your opponents Pokemon for the rest of the match. Granted if your going to do this it's more or less outclassed by Rotom-A now with a trick scarf set and a faster initial speed. But you do have different coverage options and leech seed provides some semi-reliable recovery, as well as having a way to boost your speed even after your scarf is gone. However I would do this with a different sized gourgeist so you have some better starting speed.

 

[LeTopo]

I'm new at this and I have a (maybe) silly question! I have a Super Large Impish Gourgeist and I want to give it the best EV spread possible for a tank. My question is: Wouldn't be good to give 252 EV on both defenses? Why not? (I want it to abuse leech seed, WoW and such)

 

[Aragorn the King]

I'm new at this and I have a (maybe) silly question! I have a Super Large Impish Gourgeist and I want to give it the best EV spread possible for a tank. My question is: Wouldn't be good to give 252 EV on both defenses? Why not? (I want it to abuse leech seed, WoW and such)

If you want to tank things on both sides, a careful nature with a spread of 252 HP / 252 SpD would be ideal, to balance your defenses (in this case you'd have 280 and 273 Special Defense. With Will-O-Wisp, your defensive doesn't matter as much, as the other pokemon's attack will nearly always be dropped. If you want to be a mixed wall, it's better to invest in your mediocre Sp. D (75) and HP (85), as your defense (122) is already outstanding. If you're stuck on using an Impish Super Gourgeist, I'd recommend Light screen to patch up your mediocre Sp. D. However, I run Gourgeist as a physical wall, and the spread I run is:

Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SDef / 252 HP
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
- Light Screen
- Phantom Force

This set functions as a physical wall that can also be a mixed wall if given a turn to set up Light Screen. Also, phantom force hits decently hard, and takes 24% of your opponents health on the initial turn. This spread is unchanged from december when it was designed to check Mega-Kangaskan, so actually I'd bet you could sway some defense EV's into Special Defense.

 

[Dino Sam]

About 250 wifi battles in, I can honestly say Gourgeist is my MVP. I run

Sub Seeder from heeelllllll

Gourgeist-Small @ Leftovers
Ability- Frisk
252 Sp Def 252 HP
Nature- Impish
-Will O Wisp
-Leech Seed
-Substitute
-Protect

I found that with a Def boosting nature my ev's were better spent in SP Def. Small size means better quality leeches from the comparatively lower hp stat. I find that 99 speed is also way more useful that a higher HP stat, as the imperative of getting the burn or sub up first is key. As I'm running no attacks (ooh!) the drop in the attack stat is of no consequence either. Initially I was running Shadow Sneak instead of Protect in the 4th slot as wisdom (and taunt) would dictate that this is the clever thing to do. I found out though that Shadow Sneak doesn't do a great deal, and I wished almost all of the time that I had protect instead, so lo and behold changed.

Plays like a dream, probably only slightly lower than Klefki in the annoyance stats for others, but its amusing to wall out most physical things, and most other walls too, as sub and burn/leech as appropriate on 99 sp means I get the drop on them all anyway. Almost never fails to take at least something down with it, and cripple something else.

WILL O WISP FOR EVER

 

[Aragorn the King]

About 250 wifi battles in, I can honestly say Gourgeist is my MVP. I run

Sub Seeder from heeelllllll

Gourgeist-Small @ Leftovers
Ability- Frisk
252 Sp Def 252 HP
Nature- Impish
-Will O Wisp
-Leech Seed
-Substitute
-Protect

I found that with a Def boosting nature my ev's were better spent in SP Def. Small size means better quality leeches from the comparatively lower hp stat. I find that 99 speed is also way more useful that a higher HP stat, as the imperative of getting the burn or sub up first is key. As I'm running no attacks (ooh!) the drop in the attack stat is of no consequence either. Initially I was running Shadow Sneak instead of Protect in the 4th slot as wisdom (and taunt) would dictate that this is the clever thing to do. I found out though that Shadow Sneak doesn't do a great deal, and I wished almost all of the time that I had protect instead, so lo and behold changed.

Plays like a dream, probably only slightly lower than Klefki in the annoyance stats for others, but its amusing to wall out most physical things, and most other walls too, as sub and burn/leech as appropriate on 99 sp means I get the drop on them all anyway. Almost never fails to take at least something down with it, and cripple something else.

WILL O WISP FOR EVER

Wow. That's meaner than Gliscor!

too bad you're walled hard by Alakazam and Clefable.

 

[Dino Sam]

Alakazam or Fable are not Gourgeists Friends, but against many many other pokemon Gourgeist is just a turd to deal with. I love physical hitters thinking they can just plow through, eating a burn, and 'geist healing all the way back up to the nice green as they helplessly struggle (occasionally literally)

I did actually wall a Clefable out of Moon Blasts today, it was one of those ones someone tries to be smug with at Cosmic Power, and Minimize (gotta love wifi). It can sit there all day at +6 evasion and defences all day if it can't attack for all I care. With pp maxed sub and protect 'geist it can wall foreverrrrr.

 

[L_Crow]

Gourgeist
N: Impish
I: Leftovers/???
A: Frisk
Size:Super Size
M1: Leech Seed
M2:Will-O-Wisp
M3: Substitute
M4: Phantom Force
EVs 252 Def 252 HP 4 Atk

I like this set as a pure wall setting up a substitute then seeding and burning. If you need more HP then phantom force and gain more while they lose less

 

[Petrico94]

Is there any reason not to go 'small and all speed'/'all size and hp'?

 

[Kadabrium]

I just dont feel impish 252spd is the most efficient spread.
Is 252 spd still lower than 0def?

 

[AuraSphere0]

I'm really thinking of giving this guy an Assault Vest.

Super Size
EVs: 252 HP 252 ATK 6 SpD
Item: Assault Vest (duh)
Moves:
Shadow Sneak
Seed Bomb
Flame Charge
Explosion/Rock Slide?

Haven't tried it out, more theoretical than anything, but Gourgeist could turn into a hell of a tank.

 

[RabidChipmunk]

I'm really thinking of giving this guy an Assault Vest.

Super Size
EVs: 252 HP 252 ATK 6 SpD
Item: Assault Vest (duh)
Moves:
Shadow Sneak
Seed Bomb
Flame Charge
Explosion/Rock Slide?

Haven't tried it out, more theoretical than anything, but Gourgeist could turn into a hell of a tank.

Gourgeist is just far too weak to his movepool has far too many useful status moves (Leech Seed and Will-O-Wisp are awesome) to ever try and give them up. Gourgeist also loses out on a lot of bulk without a large amount of defensive investment, hence why most are 252/252 Impish.

 

[13ulbasaur]

Sub Seeder from heeelllllll

Gourgeist-Small @ Leftovers
Ability- Frisk
252 Sp Def 252 HP
Nature- Impish
-Will O Wisp
-Leech Seed
-Substitute
-Protect

I started running this and I must say it's doing extremely well, better than I imagined. Though I run Big Root instead of Leftovers because I play under Item Clause and another Poke in my team is using lefties. It's bulk catches a lot of people off guard.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/xybattlespotsingles-115714658

I admit I played stupidly at the start but I still pulled through.
It's so evil.

 

[Jkickit]

Is Careful any good for Gourgeist-H?
What about Trick scarf Gourgeist-S?
And why Explosion on the Trick room set? pretty weak outside gen 4 and under + no STAB.

 

[Inglorion]

I'm here to talk about my experiences with running Gourgy-Xl/AV Tyranitar as a bulky offense core. If you think about it for a moment, and consider how many weaknesses TTar has, the synergy between the two is remarkable. I don't think there's a single Type that one of them doesn't at least take neutral damage from, and that's saying a lot.

Mindgames with Talonflame are the best. Does TFlame wanna U-Turn Gourg for shameful damage, or risk getting Pursuit trapped by TTar?

Anyway I haven't quite found a great set of four teammates for these two but just together they can hold their own in OU. Gourgeist is NU I believe but it has incredible niches in OU: carry a Lum Berry on it to counter Rotom-W leads. Switch into a M-Gyarados as it boosts, burn, Leech, Seed Bomb it to hell. Outspeed and burn non-Substitute M-Mawile. Hard counters the premier spinner in OU: Exacdrill. 2HKOs anything weak to Shadow Sneak with about 90 Att IVs, M-Medicham included. It's just a really useful pokemon in OU, and some teams are unprepared for it.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Super Gourgeist needs 92 speed evs to outspeed 0 speed Scizor, leaving only 164 EVs for Defense:

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 127-150 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- 37.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Meanwhile Large Gourgeist doesn't need any speed EVs to outspeed 0 Speed Scizor, so it can put everything into HP and DEF:

252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Large: 118-141 (33.3 - 39.8%) -- 23.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

This is a bit of a late post, but U-Turn switches you out anyways, so "3HKO" with U-Turn doesnt really happen