Pokémon Gengar

[shack]

So do people prefer life orb or choice specs? Does CP get any Ohkos that life orb doesn't?

 

[Megyara]

First post after a month of lurking, pls have mercy

So for as long as my team has existed, i've used gengar as a trick-scarfer to kill stall pokes like chansey and quag, however, latios has the same offensive stats, better spD, trick, and a water resist (which my team really appreciates). I've run gengar for a long time and he has served me well, but I wonder if latios could do his job better

 

[effyouzion]

I thought Gengar was pretty garbage at the start of the generation, but since everything's settled down people have become more predictable and you know what people are going to run. Because Gengar is so customizable he really benefits from that. You know what you're weak against so you can run what helps you the most. Sub/wisp is really fucking good for certain teams (like really good), and destiny bond + life orb is a decent choice for offensive teams.

I'm back to being a Gengar fan after originally thinking his glory days were behind him.

 

[dkkc19]

110 speed, 130 special attack with access to the most spamable move of this generation in Shadow Ball as well as having some incredible offensive coverage with Focus Blast, Dazzling Gleam, Psychic, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, Giga Drain, Sludge Wave and moves like WoW, Disable, Trick, Destiny Bond. Can't understand how anyone would consider Gengar a bad Pokemon. He is frail, but so is Greninja and many others. Gengar is fast, capable of revenge killing, spreading burns or fucking around Tricking items, Disabling moves and Destiny bonding.

 

[Machi]

110 speed, 130 special attack with access to the most spamable move of this generation in Shadow Ball as well as having some incredible offensive coverage with Focus Blast, Dazzling Gleam, Psychic, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, Giga Drain, Sludge Wave and moves like WoW, Disable, Trick, Destiny Bond. Can't understand how anyone would consider Gengar a bad Pokemon. He is frail, but so is Greninja and many others. Gengar is fast, capable of revenge killing, spreading burns or fucking around Tricking items, Disabling moves and Destiny bonding.

No less puzzling than arguing as if Gengar's typing and ability do not presenting itself set up opportunities given just how useful his immunities and resists are so that if you are unable to utilize these characteristics altogether well... no point discussing if you can't visualize the scenario at all.

 

[effyouzion]

110 speed, 130 special attack with access to the most spamable move of this generation in Shadow Ball as well as having some incredible offensive coverage with Focus Blast, Dazzling Gleam, Psychic, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball, Giga Drain, Sludge Wave and moves like WoW, Disable, Trick, Destiny Bond. Can't understand how anyone would consider Gengar a bad Pokemon. He is frail, but so is Greninja and many others. Gengar is fast, capable of revenge killing, spreading burns or fucking around Tricking items, Disabling moves and Destiny bonding.

Aegislash hits harder, has better resistances + defenses, has perfect (mixed!) coverage, and has priority. I thought Aegislash would outrank Gengar by far this gen, and he did early on when everyone was spamming Genesect + Deoxys HO. But now that stall is a thing Gengar can destroy it in ways that Aegislash can't.

I'm not the only one who felt this way. I think Gengar was moved down to B-rank in the victory road forums for a short time before people realized oh wait, he's good.

 

[Ninja Charizard]

Aegislash hits harder, has better resistances + defenses, has perfect (mixed!) coverage, and has priority. I thought Aegislash would outrank Gengar by far this gen, and he did early on when everyone was spamming Genesect + Deoxys HO. But now that stall is a thing Gengar can destroy it in ways that Aegislash can't.

I'm not the only one who felt this way. I think Gengar was moved down to B-rank in the victory road forums for a short time before people realized oh wait, he's good.

Aegislash is kind of bad to other ghosts... it makes you wonder "why not using Aegislash instead" every time you use any other ghost. The Knock Off boost and the introduction of Aegislash itself and Bisharp make it hard to use ghosts too.

So Gengar was considered good in the beginning of the gen, with the LO set. But as it became clear it was outclassed by Aegis in this bulky priority meta, usage dropped. Gengar just has a hard time switching in, can be destroyed by priority, and any bulky attacker can survive its hits and KO back.

Until people realized that stall was a problem and they needed something fast with support moves to outsmart stall... and Gengar has every tool you can think of (Taunt, Destiny Bond, Sub, WoW, Disable...), while also having enough offensive power to damage physical walls.

I love Gengar. This is a pokemon who always manages to stay in OU against all odds. Poison is unviable in gen 1 because of broken Psychics? Gengar doesn't care. No STAB? Gengar doesn't need it. Offensive power creep in gen 5? Gengar can still pull his weight. Rise of priority? No problem, Gengar will focus on stall instead.

It's the amazing box of versatility that always finds a place in any meta.

 

[Salemance]

Aegislash is kind of bad to other ghosts... it makes you wonder "why not using Aegislash instead" every time you use any other ghost. The Knock Off boost and the introduction of Aegislash itself and Bisharp make it hard to use ghosts too.

So Gengar was considered good in the beginning of the gen, with the LO set. But as it became clear it was outclassed by Aegis in this bulky priority meta, usage dropped. Gengar just has a hard time switching in, can be destroyed by priority, and any bulky attacker can survive its hits and KO back.

Until people realized that stall was a problem and they needed something fast with support moves to outsmart stall... and Gengar has every tool you can think of (Taunt, Destiny Bond, Sub, WoW, Disable...), while also having enough offensive power to damage physical walls.

I love Gengar. This is a pokemon who always manages to stay in OU against all odds. Poison is unviable in gen 1 because of broken Psychics? Gengar doesn't care. No STAB? Gengar doesn't need it. Offensive power creep in gen 5? Gengar can still pull his weight. Rise of priority? No problem, Gengar will focus on stall instead.

It's the amazing box of versatility that always finds a place in any meta.

Which goes to show, the day when or if it ever drops from OU will definitely be a sad one indeed.

 

[dkkc19]

Aegislash hits harder, has better resistances + defenses, has perfect (mixed!) coverage, and has priority. I thought Aegislash would outrank Gengar by far this gen, and he did early on when everyone was spamming Genesect + Deoxys HO. But now that stall is a thing Gengar can destroy it in ways that Aegislash can't.

I'm not the only one who felt this way. I think Gengar was moved down to B-rank in the victory road forums for a short time before people realized oh wait, he's good.

Well, there is no doubt that Aegislash is a superior Pokemon and easily the best Ghost in OU. But special coverage wise, Gengar is superior and can hit almost any Pokemon for super effective damage. I love Gengar because it can cover up for any lack of coverage your team have except for Ice and Fire (Not counting HP)

I hate facing Gengar as much as I hate facing Aegislash. The utility moves Gengar has makes it really annoying to face.

 

[Kejmur]

Now that stall is a big thing, everyone's so siked about Sub/Taunt/Wisp, but I still think his bread and butter set is the good old Sub/Disable. It wrecks so many things.

Time to bring Pyroar in ;). Immune to WoW and Shadow Ball as well, sounds like a fine pick here, lol.

On more serious note I also think Disable is more interesting option, especially if you are able to keep your hazards up. With them on well played Disable Gengar force switches easily, racking up this damage.

 

[Durant]

Which goes to show, the day when or if it ever drops from OU will definitely be a sad one indeed.

I know that feeling :(

R.I.P OU Starmie 1996 - 2014

 

[Deleted User 220884]

Base 110 Speed and Base 130 Sp.Atk, Idk why that guy saying Gengar is garbage. It can run multiple sets, offensive, defensive, stall breaking, etc.
I run this set for my gengar

Gengar@Choice Specs
Nature: Timid
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Speed/252 SpA/4 Def
Thunderbolt
Shadow ball
Sludge Bomb
Energy ball/Physic/Dazzling Gem

It hits hard, though be prone by sucker punch most of the time. But I find this guy very effective, usually taking 1-2 pokemon down depending on the opponent I am against before dying.

(note: I'm using this on X and Y battle spot, so if your going to criticize, don't use moves from past gen tutors.)

 

[dkkc19]

Base 110 Speed and Base 130 Sp.Atk, Idk why that guy saying Gengar is garbage. It can run multiple sets, offensive, defensive, stall breaking, etc.
I run this set for my gengar

Gengar@Choice Specs
Nature: Timid
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Speed/252 SpA/4 Def
Thunderbolt
Shadow ball
Sludge Bomb
Energy ball/Physic/Dazzling Gem

It hits hard, though be prone by sucker punch most of the time. But I find this guy very effective, usually taking 1-2 pokemon down depending on the opponent I am against before dying.

(note: I'm using this on X and Y battle spot, so if your going to criticize, don't use moves from past gen tutors.)

I used Specs Gengar both on Showdown and on the Battle Spot and it saved my ass so many times, especially on the Battle Spot.

I find Dazzling Gleam as the best coverage move as it allows you to hit Dark types. Psychic is kinda useless tho, as Dazzling Gleam hits Fighting types and there aren't many Poison types that you'd want to hit for SE damage.

 

[Deleted User 220884]

It hits pretty hard. For my fourth move slot, I have energy ball for stall bulky grounds/waters types out there.

 

[X5Dragon]

I'm gonna edit in Alexwolf's set for Stall breaker Gengar in the OP sometime today. This set is probably one of the few that is guaranteed to make the opponent rage at any point of the game. If you have any other suggestions please let me know

 

[RotomPoison]

So is Defog/Rapid Spin and on my team, Magic Bounce Espeon. I am not going to get into theory crafted scenarios. We are talking about 1v1 here. Not X amount of turns before the 1v1.



Are you saying that Aegislash would use Shadow Ball the first turn or that it would use King's Shield? Because it cannot stay in Shield form and attack you at the same time. Also King's Shield does not block Taunt. I would personally Protect first turn so I can have the option to Disable Shadow Ball on the next turn and save my Focus Sash. I am not a big fan of Sub.

And dude, figure it out yourself. Stop talking so much and go try things out so you can learn to beat Aegislash instead of limit yourself to only losing to it. I am not going to sit here and write down every single possibility of the match and hold your hand through each one. There are so many options and ways this can play out, if you don't understand it or like it, then don't use it. I am not forcing you to. Again, I am going back to my original post. I have no trouble vs Aegislash and Gengar can survive Shadow Sneak (which I already proved). Oh by the way Destiny Bond can be used as a form of protect around priority moves because it gives you the next turn to do whatever you want or take them down with you, leaving you at a fair trade.

How can you guys continue arguing? I personally have no problem with the matchup, all of the internet arguing in the world wont change that lol. I proved my point on surviving a hit with numbers and calculations, not made up/theory crafted scenarios. If you guys want to continue arguing, be my guest, but if you don't provide any actual facts, then I will just continue on doing what I am doing (not having trouble with Aegislash). Don't be so mad all the time.

I'm not mad. I'm disproving your argument that shows you are either misinterpreting or have no experience with common battle conditions. If, at any point in the battle, a Gengar and Aegislash are out at the same time, then there is the potential Aegislash will be in Shield form as no Gengar would ever switch into an Aegislash. Any Aegislash in Shield form will win.

 

[canno]

So this whole Gengar vs Aegislash thing is kind of getting silly. The only way I can see that Gengar "wins" is when it's left really weak from a sneak to the point where its practically death fodder, essentially making it a trade.

 

[Karxrida]

Protect Gengar did have a somewhat important usage in BW in scouting for CB Scizor.

However, this is XY, and more Scizor run Scizorite than Choice Band, according to April's usage statistics. Pursuit is barely on 1/5 of all Scizor now, so Protect on Gengar has lost its value.

I mean, I guess you could run Protect and Will-o-Wisp to play the guessing game with Bisharp, but Substitute would still be better overall...

But hey man, you are free to run a "bulky" and weak/slow Gengar if you want to. I once saw someone EV their Gengar in ADV to be able to take a +1 HP Fly from Salamance and then retaliate with HP Ice. That was pretty cool.

Destiny Bond is better for Bisharp because you either force it to kill itself or prevent it from using Sucker Punch on you while you Focus Blast it to death.

 

[Chou Toshio]

This thread is getting largely de-railed. Shack, I'm deleting all your posts on this subject because it's clear to me to be gengar fan-boying without considering actual battle situations... if you were keeping in touch with the real battle situations of OU singles, you'd know that Gengar IS likely to get hit by something like SR, WILL be attacking aegislash in its Shield form if it has the chance to attack it at all, and is just at a tremendous disadvantage against Aegislash in general.

No more Gengar v. Aegislash ridiculousness please.

 

[Palpitoad the Blue]

A quick question? How come Gengar is so popular while Alakazam is faster? Is not Gengar outclassed by Alakazam then?

 

[steviestar]

A quick question? How come Gengar is so popular while Alakazam is faster? Is not Gengar outclassed by Alakazam then?

Despite their stat spreads being so similar they aren't that similar in practice. Gengar has a lot of useful resists and immunities due to its great Ghost / Poison typing and Levitate ability while Alakazam has one of the weakest offensive and defensive typings in the game. Gengar's typing allows it to run utility and disruptive sets with moves like Substitute, Taunt, Will-o-Wisp, etc while Alakazam is only useful for straight forward offensive sets. Gengar is much more versatile and can fill useful roles such as stallbreaking that Alakazam can not.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Ghost is also a better offensive type (Ghost is the best offensive type in the game this gen...)

 

[X5Dragon]

It's also prolly the reason Game Freak hasn't been convinced to offer a Ghost Move with a BP over 80 (unless you consider Hex but who uses that lulz).

 

[Stagnant]

Gengar Lead
Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Counter
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond

Beats everything but T-Tar and Grenja

 

[X5Dragon]

Actually I take back my Hex joke, if you are using the Alexfowl set I updated in the OP and you are spreading burns anyway, it might be a viable slash in place of Shadow Ball:

148 SpA Gengar Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 186-220 (61.1 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage

148 SpA Gengar Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Hippowdon: 184-217 (43.8 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and burn damage

148 SpA Gengar Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 169-199 (46.4 - 54.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage

148 SpA Gengar Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 276-326 (85.1 - 100.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Let me know what you guys think