Tbh I don't miss the power loss. I've actually been running some extra bulk on Subwisp (find TFL's stall team RMT, that's the set) and have found that anything that's worth hitting Shadow Ball on are hit hard enough even without full investment. I wouldn't sacrifice Lefties recovery unless I'm using the All Out or SubSplit sets, the passive recovery is way to important on Sub sets to give up.
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Pokémon Gengar
- Thread starter X5Dragon
- Start date
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I'm kind of preaching to the choir now since the troll is banned for now, but I'd ask if anyone sees a person acting like him in this post or any other, tell a mod immediately so we don't have these types of conflicts. Thanks for keeping a level head, and keep up the good discussion.
I'm having trouble fitting Gengar on to a team. I love the Sub-Wisp set and the fact that it can 6-0 lots of different stall players. What team mates do you guys tend to use with Gengar? What style? He's so versatile that it's tough to fit him into a team.
It depends on the set. The SubWisp set fits well on any team that has troubles with stall teams, as it is able to annoy and wear them down quite a bit, as well as set up a Sub in front of many stall Pokemon such as Clefable, Mega Venusaur, and Chansey. Taunt prevents healing, WoW passively harasses opponents alongside hazards damage from switching, and Shadow Ball handles Fire-types that are immune to WoW and provides Gengar with a faster way to kill defensive Pokemon, and also serves as a useful tool for revenge killing offensive Pokemon.
The all out attacking set with Life Orb that sometimes uses Destiny Bond is a great hard hitter that can revenge kill a great deal of offensive Pokemon while being almost impossible to counter with SR up, serving as an excellent softener for late-game sweepers. For this reason, it fits pretty well on offensive teams that keep up a fast pace, can't afford to give set up chances to anything, and appreciate Gengar's mid-game softening skills as they usually pack multiple late-game sweepers. Gengar can also revenge a lot of offensive Pokemon for offensive teams whith its great Speed tier, Speed, and coverage, such as Landorus, Garchomp, Keldeo, and Terrakion.
Here are the sets i am talking about btw:
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Taunt / Sludge Wave / Disable
ability: Levitate
item: Black Sludge
evs: 28 HP / 148 SAtk / 80 SDef / 252 Spd
nature: Timid
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Sludge Wave
move 3: Focus Blast / Thunderbolt
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Destiny Bond
ability: Levitate
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid
I really like Hidden Power Ice on LO Gengar btw, as it allows it to OHKO dangerous offensive Pokemon that Gengar can check, such as Garchomp, Landorus, Landorus-T, and Dragonite.
Thanks for the detailed post. I really want to take advantage of the Sub-Wisp set. I'm trying it on a team with the Keldeo-Tyranitar-Landorus core and it seems decent so far. Some Pokemon that I feel have good type synergy with Gengar are Terrakion, Tyranitar, Heatran, basically Steel and Rock types since Gengar can come in on immunities a bit better. Tyranitar is great for getting rid of Talonflame so that's definitely a plus.
He can 6-0 teams that are completely incompetent. Most good trainers can KO him effortlessly. I keep trying to tell people he's too frail to actually work a Substitute/Taunt set, but no one seems to listen.
Also, to whoever said "No black sludge cause it could be tricked onto someone else?" Most Trick/Switcheroo users probably won't last long enough to do so. And even then, it's really be a waste of turns.
Rotosect
Banned deucer.
The Leftovers vs Black Sludge debate is old-fashioned. Trick and Switcheroo are no longer common as they were in the previous generations, for starters, because they're very risky to use against mega evolutions.
Even more importantly, if the opposing pokemon gets tricked Black Sludge, one of these two things will happen: 1. your opponent keeps the Sludge and loses 1/8 HP each turn, 2. your opponent wastes a turn using Trick/Switcheroo again, which may or may not have the intended result while giving you a free turn. No matter what the odds are in your favor so stick with Black Sludge.
Even more importantly, if the opposing pokemon gets tricked Black Sludge, one of these two things will happen: 1. your opponent keeps the Sludge and loses 1/8 HP each turn, 2. your opponent wastes a turn using Trick/Switcheroo again, which may or may not have the intended result while giving you a free turn. No matter what the odds are in your favor so stick with Black Sludge.
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The Substitute/Taunt/Will-o-Wisp/Shadow Ball set is actually very viable and makes Stall a cake-walk for any team that he is on. Gengar is frail, but there's a lot that it can set up a substitute on and Gengar boasts three immunities and several resistances that help it's frailty. I turned to this thread because this is the set I really want to use effectively. I've been getting some ideas, and building a team around some solid Pokemon that perform well against offensive teams but fail against stall.
I just ran into someone using scarfed gengar. What is the purpose of this besides outspeeding Deo-S? (Who you really shouldn't be trying to outspeed anyway without priority)
I sort of see Scarfgar as a parallel to Deo-S as a revenge killer, albeit with less versatility. We can't fault its type coverage, as Shadow Ball is more spammable than ever, and doesn't neuter your primary offensive stat afterward like Psycho Boost.
I've found that ScarfGar works well with more balanced/defensive teams, as it can punch through stall breakers like Goth instead of risking a trade with a Knock Off powered by 16 attack Evs.
Having a spare Trick is pretty useful for set up sweepers, which makes up for the loss of Knock Off. You can also exercise the gimmick of running Modest with 252 speed to take on neutral natured base 100s at plus 1, if you're in some weird universe where ScarfChomp isn't a threat.
I'm sure there are more pros other than nostalgia, but only these niches come to mind.
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I used scarfed Gengar quite a bit at the start of XY (mainly because I forgot about Deo-S), and it was a damn good revenge killer. That extra speed lets it outspeed some boosted stuff, which means it can do its job quite effectively. It does lack some power, but it's still very good. Also, it can use Destiny Bond to surprise opponents if Gengar is weakened and you don't need it for anything else.
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I'm going to make this pretty simple:
Have you ever played against a stall team?
And by stall I mean, a team that has all 6 pokemon as defensive pokemon. Stuff like Chansey, Skarmory, Mega Venusaur, etc...
Note that these teams are only viable on 6x6 singles, so if you play doubles or 3x3 Battle Spot, you won't see them there.
They really can't give Mega Gengar another ability at this point, because it is hard coded to only have Shadow Tag in both ability slots. In Gen 7, they could make ability 0 = shadow tag and ability 1 = levitate... Let's hope not though, we don't need another WHY DON'T WE JUST UNBAN BLAZE BLAZIKEN again lol.
Anything with Foul Play can effortlessly kill Gengar. You're probably thinking "It's attack is not very high." Neither is it's defense or HP. Not to mention it takes double from it. A lot of stall teams are going to carry Mandibuzz, which is one key example of a Pokemon who can make use of this, as well as a staller most people bring up when talking about stalls who can counter Gengar.
Haven't Mega Evolutions only one ability though? They could just replace Shadow Tag with Levitate or another balanced ability. They removed Shadow Tag from Chandelure for Infiltrator this gen for the exact same reasons. (lol Game Freak is imperscrutable. Removing an ability from a Pokémon for fear of its brokenness, then giving the exact same ability to a Pokémon which is faster, more powerful, and has better movepool and defensive typing)
all pokemon have two ability slots apart from their Hidden ability, including megas. Pokemon like Gengar have Levitate in their Ability 0 and 1 slots. This just so happens to be the case for all the megas. The way the mechanics work right now, M-Gengar has Shadow Tag in both slots, M-Pinsir has Aerilate in both slots, and so on. And yeah, GF changed Chandelure's hidden ability on the cusp of a new generation. The only way they can give M-Gengar access to Levitate is to wait until Gen 7 or to require some mandatory patch for X&Y... don't see that happening lol.
If Gengar gets up a sub against something that can't break it and they go to Mandibuzz, you can easily Taunt it while it breaks your sub. That stops it from using anything BUT Foul Play, so you can switch Gengar out into something that takes squat from Foul Play. You can Wisp it, crippling it for the rest of the match, though your sub still breaks. Who cares though, you instantly put more pressure on that Mandibuzz for the rest of the match. If you miss then... oh well, that's the risk in using Wisp.
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Personally I'm not a huge fan of SubWisp Taunt Gengar. I prefer to use Mew which has good bulk to function well against offensive teams as well. Other than that I'd rather use an offensive wallbreaker that is again more effective against offensive teams, which are clearly the dominant playstyle. The set is effective and Gengar has obvious advantages but I feel other options tend to work better.
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SubWisp can check/cripple Bisharp, which is pretty cool.
In fact Gengar makes a great Bisharp check; if you're running D-Bond you can force it to use up all of its Sucker Punches or do a 1-for-1 if it decided to use Knock Off, while SubWisp can set up in front of it and get a free burn. Both sets needs Focus Blast to actually kill it withing dying itself, however.
In fact Gengar makes a great Bisharp check; if you're running D-Bond you can force it to use up all of its Sucker Punches or do a 1-for-1 if it decided to use Knock Off, while SubWisp can set up in front of it and get a free burn. Both sets needs Focus Blast to actually kill it withing dying itself, however.
hopefully this will come across as advice and not seem like i'm 'feeding the troll' or continuing the argument myself, but you're not being labeled as such for your opinion, but simply in the way you're going about expressing it.
you made a statement, others disagree. rather than accepting that, you call people retards and type in a lot of caps and exclamation points. people understand your point, they just disagree with it. just accept that people can and will disagree. you don't have to change your own mind just because others won't change theirs and vice-versa. you made your opinion known; if you provided evidence to back it up, that should be enough. if you want to continue in the conversation, respond to other's evidence with new evidence, not trolling.
That's what Chansey is for. You switch into her (beware of tw though), taunt, and then sub as she switches out.
Skarmory is also a great one because it's more likely to use defog or rocks as you come in, and after you burn it it loses any means of dealing gamage.
Mandi doesn't like being burned either, since it weakens foul play.
Gliscor also works good, but it's advisable that you use sub once to scout for knock off. If it doesn't have knock off, you get a sub.
Any scarfer locked into a ground or fighting moves also gives a completely free switch to gengar
The next mon who comes as you sub will have a hard time dealing with gengar. Attackers are prone to be burned, walls are prone to be taunted, burned and then giving you another sub, and everything is prone to eating a shadow ball before taking your sub down.
Skarmory is also a great one because it's more likely to use defog or rocks as you come in, and after you burn it it loses any means of dealing gamage.
Mandi doesn't like being burned either, since it weakens foul play.
Gliscor also works good, but it's advisable that you use sub once to scout for knock off. If it doesn't have knock off, you get a sub.
Any scarfer locked into a ground or fighting moves also gives a completely free switch to gengar
The next mon who comes as you sub will have a hard time dealing with gengar. Attackers are prone to be burned, walls are prone to be taunted, burned and then giving you another sub, and everything is prone to eating a shadow ball before taking your sub down.
If you say to us what exactly a taunted and/or burned Quagsire, Clefable, Venusaur, Hippowdon, Chansey, Gliscor or Chesnaught is going to do against a Gengar bar switching out then we're going to take you more seriously. The main reason Charizard X is used on stall nowadays is because it's pretty much the only good Pokémon for full stall that isn't wrecked by this Gengar(also for other reason like quadresisting fire and access to reliable healing as opposed to Heatran). Blaming this set because it works good only against stall is like blaming Mega-Heracross because it's only good against Deosharp and full stall. You know, you are going to put SubTaunt Gengar in your team only if it fears stall. Sludge Wave and Destiny Bond are better picks for a team scared by offense.
Plus a burned Mandi deals max 44% damage on Gengar. It's not even hard to WoW and then switch out. Or better, Taunt the obvious Defog, WoW, and switch out to a fighting pokemon who gets free momentum against it.
The fact that Gengar can burn-and-run pretty much every physical attacker lacking priority makes it amazing.
And if said attacker has a Life Orb, Burn-and-Spam-Substitute.
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