np: XY UU Stage 2 - Light Em Up

[UU ALL DAY]

I've run into 1 Megazam, and the player wasn't exactly the greatest, so I can't comment.

I've seen quite a bit of the Sash Zam, which I think is it's best set. It's like having a scarfer in terms of being able to revenge something. Really liking it.

As for Lucario, I find the physical set underwhelming until it sets up. If your team doesn't give you opportunities to set up, I find Pokes such as Heracross much better, do to better initial damage.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

I've faced a fair share of megazams, and it definitely is a very strong force to be reckoned with. Shit hits as hard as LO Zam, outspeeds the entire un-scarfed metagame (bar random stuff like ninjask or mega aero, not to say the latter is shit but it can't really take hits either), Trace is op and you pretty much have it. the scary thing is that with SR up mega zam has a very fucking real chance of 2 shotting blissey with psyshock, and that's saying something because blissey pretty much needs to use wishtect to guarantee survival (toss in spikes and there, dead blissey)

the megazam/luke combo right now atm is absolutely threatening since both are really strong sweepers and bouff already mentioned most of what i was going to say anyway so i wont really elaborate much. it should be noted that mega zam needs timid to outrun scarf chand though so it loses quite a bit of power from modest.

luke gives defensively-based teams trouble since it has a rather decent defensive typing, it can setup a sd/np easily, and wreck from there. sd is probably the better set atm since close combat is obviously god-tier stab (it 2-shots crocune, while actually being able to survive +1 4 spa scald at -1 spdef from full hp ._.), and it pretty much wrecks common physical walls like aggron. slowbro can wall the physical set, and special sets to some extent if they aren't carrying shadow ball/dark pulse.

volc is surprisingly manageable, much more manageable than expected, but quiver dance is still fucked up as shit. there are pretty much 2 different variations in moveset, fire stab (fiery dance is useful but the power can be really anemic, while flamethrower/fire blast etc are more reliable etc) and whatever shit it's running outside of qd/stabs. each move leaves it fucked over somehow by something (giga drain means fire types beat you, hp means you can't beat water types as easily). however, the threatening ones are definitely defensive volc with roost or chestorest. the former is probably more threatening, but i've tried the latter and it definitely pulls its weight well. only thing is the stupid amount of support it needs in defogging and getting rid of bulky waters, and his physical bulk isn't the best to write home about either.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

I have to agree that Volc has actually been the least of my problems. People seem to forget that most Moth's are modest, so scarf Darm, etc etc can switch in on the predicted quiver, then force it right out. Plus, the toss up between Giga Drain, HP rock/ground, and hurricane essentially causes moth to lack in a certain department. If you lack HP rock, rip to mega aero. If you lack Giga Drain, Water Walls, such as Suicine, Blastoise, can stomach hits. Surprisingly enough, Infernape has been giving a lot of teams trouble simply because of how diverse it is. It can go special, physical, scarfed/banded, or even mixed. Though volc does have only one or two good sets, I feel that those sets are easily prepared for. Much like how last gen ScarfCross was easily prepared for.

 

[RufflesPro]

tbh I'm not having any troubles with Modest volc that shit is easy to deal with, but bulkarona from BW2 OU is pretty fucking hard to deal with.

Also I have been using this set for a while now and it has be outstanding for me:

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Vacuum Wave
- Grass Knot
​

Special infernape is beast in this meta. At +2 and SR it has literally no counters I can think of right now, as for checks, basically anything faster, can survive +2 Vacuum Wave, and OHKO Back, OR something that can OHKO and take +2 Fire blast. Checks include, Empleon and Victini if Nape doesn't have Blaze on (if it is they get decimated, unless scarf Tini), Mega Aero, Zam, Mega Zam, Chandelure, and Azelf.

Special Walls:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 308-363 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 211-250 (58.6 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 199-235 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 239-282 (60.6 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Now for the bulky water types:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 400-473 (101.5 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 429-507 (106.1 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 468-551 (118.7 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 429-507 (118.5 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Bulky Ground types:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Donphan: 728-858 (189.5 - 223.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 515-606 (122.6 - 144.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Faster Revenge Killers (include scarfers):

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 234-277 (66.6 - 78.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mienshao: 220-259 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario: 390-460 (138.7 - 163.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The slightest chip damage on the former 2 makes Vacuum wave a guranteed OHKO.

Infernape is perfect lure for bulky water types, only to get decimated by Grass Knot.



Also CM Mega Zam and Encore Mega Zam are extremely annoying to deal with, CM Mega zam can wreck stall like it's not even a joke and Encore mega Zam wrecks HO. Encore + CM lacks coverage but it's like crazy. I have also seen stuff like SubDisable mega zam too.

Also couldn't agree more, Fletchinder is god now. Kid you not some Volcs are starting to run HP rock to prevent Fletch from setting up SDs

 

[snakemaster777]

Volcarona is really awesome when you have Sticky Web out and have a good moveset.

 

[Minus]

Volcarona is really awesome when you have Sticky Web out and have a good moveset.

Voclarona doesn't need Sticky Web to function; it can hold off on its own with Quiver Dance, and base 100 Speed isn't too shabby right off the bat either.

 

[Ununhexium]

Well tbh everything bar Gyro Ball users appreciate Sticky Web. I don't know if this is viable, but with Sticky Web support, a Specs set might be viable.

I don't know why, but I have been using Rotom-H / Amoonguss / Rhyperior and they work very well together.

 

[Minus]

I don't know why, but I have been using Rotom-H / Amoonguss / Rhyperior and they work very well together.

Rotom-H and Amoonguss have great synergy together. A friend if mine has had some success with them on the ladder. Care to share, Xylen?

 

[NickBro]

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Vacuum Wave
- Grass Knot
Special infernape is beast in this meta. At +2 and SR it has literally no counters I can think of right now

You're forgetting Tentacruel, who also checks the frail Volcarona and NP Luke. Also Rapid Spins or sets TSpikes, or annoys with Scald burns.

I'm currently running

Tentacruel @ Assault Vest
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Sludge Wave
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off

Relevant calcs:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tentacruel: 66-78 (18.1 - 21.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario: 96-114 (34.1 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Luke needs SR and two drops to beat you, and has to risk two Scald burns as well.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tentacruel: 82-97 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Tentacruel Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Infernape: 106-126 (36.1 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Infernape: 188-224 (64.1 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Fire Blast does a tiny bit more, but you risk the miss, and Sludge Wave + Scald means you don't have to fuck around with Blaze range. That Infernape set loses.

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Volcarona Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tentacruel: 122-146 (33.5 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 92-110 (29.4 - 35.2%) -- 17.5% chance to 3HKO

Volcarona has to run HP Ground and have rocks off the field to beat Tenta, and even so it is easily picked off by an Extremespeed or a Sucker Punch after eating two Scalds.

 

[snakemaster777]

Voclarona doesn't need Sticky Web to function; it can hold off on its own with Quiver Dance, and base 100 Speed isn't too shabby right off the bat either.

Yeah I guess but you might be left with 1HP.

 

[Minus]

Yeah I guess but you might be left with 1HP.

What I'm trying to say is that Volcarona doesn't require Sticky Web support because of it's already above average Speed. There's no point in running one of Galvantula or Shuckle just because of the off-chance that your Volcarona will end up in low health up against a faster threat. If you need Sticky Web support for another Pokemon on your team, by all means, go ahead, but there's no point in running it solely for Volcarona.

EDIT: @below, oh yeah

 

[Petrico94]

There's no point in running one of Smeargle, Galvantula, or Shuckle just because of the off-chance that your Volcarona will end up in low health up against a faster threat. If you need Sticky Web support for another Pokemon on your team, by all means, go ahead, but there's no point in running it solely for Volcarona.

Smeargle, Galvantula, or Shuckle

 

[Xylen]

Rotom-H and Amoonguss have great synergy together. A friend if mine has had some success with them on the ladder. Care to share, Xylen?

Well, i dont know how to go into details but, Defensive Rotom, (Set from the analysis), and specially Defensive Amoonguss with Spore for putting mons to sleep (Taking a nap is always good) and Clear Smog for Crocune etc.

 

[Meru]

Damn Blissey really makes this meta shit... welcome to round two AKA count your Aromatherapys. Watch this shit.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-uu-11745

 

[RufflesPro]

You're forgetting Tentacruel, who also checks the frail Volcarona and NP Luke. Also Rapid Spins or sets TSpikes, or annoys with Scald burns.

I'm currently running

Tentacruel @ Assault Vest
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Sludge Wave
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off

Relevant calcs:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tentacruel: 66-78 (18.1 - 21.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario: 96-114 (34.1 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Luke needs SR and two drops to beat you, and has to risk two Scald burns as well.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tentacruel: 82-97 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Tentacruel Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Infernape: 106-126 (36.1 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Infernape: 188-224 (64.1 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Fire Blast does a tiny bit more, but you risk the miss, and Sludge Wave + Scald means you don't have to fuck around with Blaze range. That Infernape set loses.

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Volcarona Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tentacruel: 122-146 (33.5 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 92-110 (29.4 - 35.2%) -- 17.5% chance to 3HKO

Volcarona has to run HP Ground and have rocks off the field to beat Tenta, and even so it is easily picked off by an Extremespeed or a Sucker Punch after eating two Scalds.

Just a minor nitpick, in the set you put Sludge Wave and the calc was Sludge Bomb. But I should say that Sludge Bomb > Sludge Wave on AV tenta for the better change of poisoning. I like AV tenta though, never even thought of it.

Damn Blissey really makes this meta shit... welcome to round two AKA count your Aromatherapys. Watch this shit.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-uu-11745

I agree, Blissey just made stall ten times better.

252 Atk Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 72-85 (20 - 23.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 141-166 (19.7 - 23.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 153-183 (21.4 - 25.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Florges: 138-164 (38.3 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers


The attacker is irrelevant, these calcs just show that Blissey > Florges at walling.

Blissey > Florges Pros:

- Much bigger wishes
- A better wall (aka can take hits better, see the aforementioned calcs)
- Wider movepool for support (T-wave, SR, Healing Wish, even counter)
- More reliable damage (Seismic Toss > Moonblast)

Florges > Blissey Pros:

- Better typing tier-wise

Florges already made stall pretty damn good, now blissey made better on a whole new level, and if Luc, Volc, and Nape go without Blissey, the tier will be a full stall war.

 

[Meru]

Blissey makes Florges look like a goddamn Magcargo. I actually had fun with status vs Aromatherapy shenanigans that made some of the stall vs balance and stall vs stall matches interesting. With Blissey, it's literally how much status you can catch with Natural Cure in attempt to PP stall the other team's Aromatherapy. I literally take back my statement about Blissey not being good against stall. With Defog, Spikes, which were one of her biggest problems pre Gen V, are much easier to remove now, so she rears her ugly head way more in those matches.

 

[Godsend]

I just think they're different. Florges has actual typing and can hurt stuff. That with the fact that fighting types kind of rule the meta (Shao, Luc, Nape, Hera....) makes her good in that sense.

 

[luna gris*]

so uu the old OU?

 

[MegaMogwai]

Damn Blissey really makes this meta shit... welcome to round two AKA count your Aromatherapys. Watch this shit.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-uu-11745

I refuse to believe anyone finds this kind of match anything besides atrocious. That was hard to watch.

If that's where the meta is headed then i'm getting the fuck out of here.

 

[Patrick1088]

Florges and blissey while similar, are meant to handle different threats. Blissey is the classic sp def wall wish passer thats afraid of fighting types. Florges however is meant to take those fighting types by the horns thanks to its fairy typing. Florges has actual offensive presence let me remind you withbmoonblast.

Priority is a lot of fun right now. I ran a more offensive team with sd lucario and sd fletchinder and its really good, especially the former. Add in some hazards and they can tear teams apart

 

[Eddie2013]

tbh I'm not having any troubles with Modest volc that shit is easy to deal with, but bulkarona from BW2 OU is pretty fucking hard to deal with.

Also I have been using this set for a while now and it has be outstanding for me:

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Vacuum Wave
- Grass Knot
​

Special infernape is beast in this meta. At +2 and SR it has literally no counters I can think of right now, as for checks, basically anything faster, can survive +2 Vacuum Wave, and OHKO Back, OR something that can OHKO and take +2 Fire blast. Checks include, Empleon and Victini if Nape doesn't have Blaze on (if it is they get decimated, unless scarf Tini), Mega Aero, Zam, Mega Zam, Chandelure, and Azelf.

Special Walls:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 308-363 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 211-250 (58.6 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 199-235 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 239-282 (60.6 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Now for the bulky water types:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 400-473 (101.5 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 429-507 (106.1 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 468-551 (118.7 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 429-507 (118.5 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Bulky Ground types:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Donphan: 728-858 (189.5 - 223.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 515-606 (122.6 - 144.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Faster Revenge Killers (include scarfers):

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 234-277 (66.6 - 78.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mienshao: 220-259 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario: 390-460 (138.7 - 163.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The slightest chip damage on the former 2 makes Vacuum wave a guranteed OHKO.

Infernape is perfect lure for bulky water types, only to get decimated by Grass Knot.



Also CM Mega Zam and Encore Mega Zam are extremely annoying to deal with, CM Mega zam can wreck stall like it's not even a joke and Encore mega Zam wrecks HO. Encore + CM lacks coverage but it's like crazy. I have also seen stuff like SubDisable mega zam too.

Also couldn't agree more, Fletchinder is god now. Kid you not some Volcs are starting to run HP rock to prevent Fletch from setting up SDs

Doesnt assault vest goodra completely wall this infernape resisting fire blast and grass knot and then only taking very little at best from plus 2 vaccum wave. Havent ran calcs on this but goodra completely destroys special ape in terms of walling it.

I found scarf physical ape to be the best right now in the meta it outspeeds every other good scarfer in the tier (victini,darmintan,flygon,hydreigon,meinshao) and can easily handle the walls florges with a flare blitz and blissey with a close combat. The only real threat is had is goodra but physical ape destroys goodra with a close combat.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Vacuum Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 68-82 (17.7 - 21.3%) -- possible 5HKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 94-110 (24.4 - 28.6%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 57-68 (14.8 - 17.7%)-- possible 6HKO

 

[Ninja Charizard]

Damn Blissey really makes this meta shit... welcome to round two AKA count your Aromatherapys. Watch this shit.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-uu-11745

That was painful to watch.

Inb4 more offensive pokemon being banned because they are making stall unplayable.

 

[radianthero156]

im pretty sure that people saying volcarona is not broken have not faced a well played bulky qd volcarona. it can outlast its counters far too easily, requiring only spin support and SR. assault vest entei needs stone edge to beat volcarona and cannot switch-in forever thanks to its SR weakness; arcanine needs either roar or toxic, and is also sr weak; blissey needs toxic (twave blissey ACTUALLY LOSES 1-on-1 to volca unless it gets massive parahax), etc, etc. the only consistent volcarona counter i know is mega aerodactyl, and even then it might be fucked by offensive volcarona running hp rock and LO.

also, tentacruel is really good atm as it basically counters every infernape barring ones that are dumb to run earthquake (seriously, earthquake is a waste of moveslot), counters volcarona if it has toxic, can take at least one hit from a +2 physical lucario (and can counter the np set forever pretty much), has amazing moves like knock off, rapid spin, scald, toxic spikes, giga drain, etc, can annoy the opponent if it uses leech seed, and much more.

 

[Stef0w]

Damn Blissey really makes this meta shit... welcome to round two AKA count your Aromatherapys. Watch this shit.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-uu-11745

Did somebody hack alomomola, sableeye, and infernape into a GSC Game?

 

[NickBro]

Sludge Wave > Sludge Bomb because of Chesnaught