Metagame NP: NU (beta): Welcome to the NU Age (Combusken Banned)

[viol and bass]

I've been messing around with a Pangoro set of my own:

Pangoro @ Leftovers
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Circle Throw
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I've been running a bit more Speed to creep stuff, which is nice because Circle Throw can go first when selected by Sleep Talk, but it's not really necessary. This set has been really working really well in combination with hazard support. Pangoro can just come in on so many mons without fear and start setting up and phazing, becoming enormously bulky in the process. Examples of shit Pangoro can set up on: Spiritomb and other ghosts except Mismagius, Weezing, Seismitoad, Vileplume, Rhydon, etc. Nothing is immune to Circle Throw, which makes him a very effective phazer. I know it seems like a shame to forgo Crunch, but it's not strictly needed since the goal of this set is to just phaze everything while not caring about status. This set's counters are pretty easy to discern and prepare for. The biggest counters to this set, bulky Psychic types, will never switch in on him out of fear of his Dark STAB, so the main things to worry about are Fighting and Flying mons. So take them out with, I dunno, Archeops or something?

Demonstration of substantial bulk:

Hide

4 SpA Vileplume Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Pangoro: 94-112 (23.8 - 28.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery)
252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Pangoro: 147-174 (37.3 - 44.1%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[termi]

iv. Sweatpants (Cacturne) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 80 HP / 176 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Sucker Punch
- Encore
- Bullet Seed
The best offensive spiker in NU

 

[NWL]

I prefer Cacturne to Accelgor mainly because of STAB Sucker Punch. It seriously dents many Pokemon, and outright kills most frail sweepers.

 

[cacturne]

Hi, I've tried out a couple rounds of NU with a team I made, and here are some sets i have found that work.

iv. Sweatpants (Cacturne) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 80 HP / 176 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Sucker Punch
- Encore
- Bullet Seed
The best offensive spiker in NU, IMO. Sucker Punch is really good with SR support, picking off weakened threats such as Guts Swellow. Encore is really handy for defensive mons that think they wall the cactus. Bullet seed is for two reasons: STAB, and taking out Golem/Seismitoad.

ii. Shadows (Marowak) @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Bonemerang
- Double-Edge
- Substitute
- Stone Edge

This set breaks stuff. Thick Club boosts his attack to monstrous levels, so you're looking at mini-Azu. Bonemerang hits most stuff except birds, so Stone Edge is the logical conclusion. I've been using it in a core with Magmortar (credit to FLCL) and it smashes through things.

A replay in which Marowak cleans up:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/nubeta-128198406

i. Pink Toes (Butterfree) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Stun Spore
- U-turn
- Defog
Classic Double Status Butterfree. You can use either status depending on the threat: if it is a lead, I go for Sleep Powder; for offensive sweepers, I use Stun Spore. Paralysis support helps Marowak to sweep as well with his low speed. Defog is useful for when hazards are impeding my momentum, and U-turn maintains momentum.

EDIT: Yay 100th post!

On my phone so this will be a short post about 2 things.
1. Those names are all childish gambino songs
2. Cacturne's main role is using its two awesome immunities and powerful priority to hot hard and for e switches with an SD set since spikes is done better by accelgor

 

[NWL]

On my phone so this will be a short post about 2 things.
1. Those names are all childish gambino songs
2. Cacturne's main role is using its two awesome immunities and powerful priority to hot hard and for e switches with an SD set since spikes is done better by accelgor

I just like Cacturne more because it can be more offensive while still supporting the team. Just my opinion.

 

[Mudkip727]

Hi, I've tried out a couple rounds of NU with a team I made, and here are some sets i have found that work.

iv. Sweatpants (Cacturne) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 80 HP / 176 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Sucker Punch
- Encore
- Bullet Seed
The best offensive spiker in NU, IMO. Sucker Punch is really good with SR support, picking off weakened threats such as Guts Swellow. Encore is really handy for defensive mons that think they wall the cactus. Bullet seed is for two reasons: STAB, and taking out Golem/Seismitoad.

ii. Shadows (Marowak) @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Bonemerang
- Double-Edge
- Substitute
- Stone Edge

This set breaks stuff. Thick Club boosts his attack to monstrous levels, so you're looking at mini-Azu. Bonemerang hits most stuff except birds, so Stone Edge is the logical conclusion. I've been using it in a core with Magmortar (credit to FLCL) and it smashes through things.

A replay in which Marowak cleans up:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/nubeta-128198406

i. Pink Toes (Butterfree) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Timid Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Stun Spore
- U-turn
- Defog
Classic Double Status Butterfree. You can use either status depending on the threat: if it is a lead, I go for Sleep Powder; for offensive sweepers, I use Stun Spore. Paralysis support helps Marowak to sweep as well with his low speed. Defog is useful for when hazards are impeding my momentum, and U-turn maintains momentum.

EDIT: Yay 100th post!

Love that marowak, but isn't fire punch better than double edge??

 

[cacturne]

I just like Cacturne more because it can be more offensive while still supporting the team. Just my opinion.

SD actually carries great utility in beating many bulky waters and outpacing and pressuring a lot of walls in the meta. I prefer accelgor as a spiker due to high speed and cool stuff like final gambit

Edit: also cacturne should really be using water absorb>sand veil i just noticed that

 

[NWL]

Love that marowak, but isn't fire punch better than double edge??

I've used both and honestly, Double-Edge is just as effective. If you want to use it, pick either one depending on the team.

SD actually carries great utility in beating many bulky waters and outpacing and pressuring a lot of walls in the meta. I prefer accelgor as a spiker due to high speed and cool stuff like final gambit

I'm ok with you liking Accelgor more, and I'll be sure to try SD Cacturne out!

 

[Anty]

SD actually carries great utility in beating many bulky waters and outpacing and pressuring a lot of walls in the meta. I prefer accelgor as a spiker due to high speed and cool stuff like final gambit

Edit: also cacturne should really be using water absorb>sand veil i just noticed that

Water absorb is illegal with encore, encore it a gen3 even for some reason and not a level up.

 

[cacturne]

Water absorb is illegal with encore, encore it a gen3 even for some reason and not a level up.

Then encore isnt worth it imo id rather use a sash and d-bond because sand veil is worthless and encore is awk on turne due to base 55 speed making move locking rather prediction heavy

 

[Mudkip727]

Water absorb is illegal with encore, encore it a gen3 even for some reason and not a level up.

Then how about drain punch?
Nice utility, good coverage and lasty a way of recovery.
Now that probopass(lol) wouldn't be so happy staying in.

 

[cacturne]

Then how about drain punch?
Nice utility, good coverage and lasty a way of recovery.
Now that probopass(lol) wouldn't be so happy staying in.

I generally run low kick as my fighting coverage but its up to you

 

[Bummer]

Cacturne also loses Bullet Seed if it opts for Water Absorb, so even though it does have Seed Bomb, it's an option to consider. I once came across a Cacturne which I assumed to be a spiker, but then it managed to accumulate both a sub and a swords dance which made for quite a predicament as I lacked a Dark resist, so while it's not a top tier threat, you do need to be wary around it.

 

[MrCookiepants]

I've been using Calm Mind/Baton Passing Musharna to great effect recently. Its terrible speed ensures that whatever you pass your boosts onto comes in at full health, ready to sweep. For this reason I prefer it over Quiver passers like Masquerain. That, and the fact that it's MUCH bulkier (non-STAB super effective don't bother it at all).

Typhlosion's Eruption is pretty hilarious at +2.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Then encore isnt worth it imo id rather use a sash and d-bond because sand veil is worthless and encore is awk on turne due to base 55 speed making move locking rather prediction heavy

Just saying Water Absorb is also quite worthless on a Water resist. I'd much rather have Encore so that all the dangerous shit in the tier can't set up for free, and also giving free turns to use Spikes. Also Bullet Seed is good on lead Cacturne cos it defeats Sash Omastar leads (these have Weak Armor so they set up 2 layers otherwise), Weakness Policy Carracosta, as well as Golem. Not super noteworthy but if you're a Spikes lead you might as well try and defeat some of the other leads anyway.

However I doubt Cacturne is worth using over

simply because it's like 10 times faster, has a super fast Encore, has a nice ability which can come in handy if you mess up vs fast sweepers, and sets up an almost guaranteed 2 layers of Spikes a game. also it beats opposing Defoggers with Bug Buzz (Shiftry) or Final Gambit. If you want Yawn can even be used to Spike up even more. AND Bug Buzz doesn't miss and hits through subs. It's like Scolipede was last gen except even better. I think it was zeb(?) who posted a set ages ago about it, and it certainly got better with Shuckle leaving

No srsly guys use more Accelgor you won't believe how easily the guaranteed Spikes wear down all the bulky shit in the tier (cough Dragalge cough Seismitoad cough etc)

 

[dingbat]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nubeta-128140956
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nubeta-128343340
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nubeta-128371989

A few pokemon to elaborate on, mainly the ones I've used in these battles above:

Sawk will once again be the top-class Fighting pokemon in the tier. It's been gifted the Knock Off buff, which imo gives Sturdy the better ability edge. Of the levitating/Sturdy/Filter/whatever mons, the only notable thing I see is Sawk being able to KO Golems, lolProbopasses, and other Sawks through Sturdy, since Mismagius, Uxie, and normal Rotom are now threatened by Knock Off. I end up leading with this half the time.

Gourgeist-Small can be really fucking annoying with its WispSeeding, as its 99 base speed is great for spreading burns on physically based 'mons just slower than it, such as Basculin, Kangaskhan, Sawk, unpoisoned Zangoose and etc., assuming they are all unscarfed. I honestly find this a step better than Gourgeist XL, as I have felt in RU, UU, and OU as well, since the extra speed is just that more useful. (Hitmonchan pls drop u suk in RU and I want to burn u too) I lead with this the other half of the time, since it's a great scout :)

Cryogonal gained a little utility this generation as a spinner, although it's moveset is still p. shitty. Although Freeze Dry is 20 pts weaker than Ice Beam, it offers some pretty valuable utility in being able to hit water types for SE damage (4x SE on Ludicolo and Seismitoad, which is neat), which can be p. important at times as shown in calcs below. Knock off is always there if it wants to annoy opponents.

Personally, I don't utilize Stealth Rocks, so I didn't include 'em in the calcs. They certainly help with clinching those OHKOs, however.

4 SpA Cryogonal Freeze Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Seismitoad: 372-436 (89.8 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Cryogonal Freeze Dry vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ludicolo: 292-348 (96.6 - 115.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Cryogonal Freeze Dry vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Basculin: 236-278 (83.9 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Cryogonal Freeze Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Qwilfish: 236-278 (70.6 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

With a little bit prior damage or extra SpA (28 to ohko Ludicolo, 128 to ohko Seismitoad, and 180 to ohko Basculin w/out rocks), Cryogonal can more easily pick off some of these water types.

Granbull was blessed with a new Fairy typing that granted it key resistances to Fighting and Dark types. It is one of the few 'mons that can effectively check Sawk now, and it can also spread paralysis/phase more capably than it was able to last generation. Thing's got some solid physical bulk and Intimidate going for it.

Raichu really loves that extra 10 base speed points. At 110 speed, this mouse can now outspeed so many extra things that it can now become a very effective revenge killer/special sweeper. (Mismagius, the Simis, Typhlosion, etc.) Lightning Rod is also a plus on this thing. I use this mainly to check Sigilyph b/c nothing else on my team really wants to.

I know I'm only in the 1200s for now which is p. low, but I've been 6-0ing almost everyone in the lower ladder so far, so I think my team should suffice for a little while.

Edit: Got to 1300s quickly

 

[Anna says hi]

Should I do an RMT of my stall team y/n?
Showcases threats that I find almost nowhere else.

 

[Aasgier]

Misdreavus is different from mismagius because Misdreavus is bulkier so whereas mismagius is best used as a sweeper, Misdreavus is better at being a wall of sorts and doing shit like heal bell

That being said, idk if you should use Misdreavus in a meta where good ghosts run rampant.

Doublade is gone now and Misdreavus is at least better than Dusknoir. It is one of the best spinblockers in the tier and has some good durability, but however, its main niche is gone as it no longer truly counters the Fighting-types, as they can all carry Knock Off to deal with it.

Misdreavus still has a niche but more specially defensive than physically defensive like last gen. Misdreavus is probably also better at Nasty Plotting due to its greater bulk whereas Mismagius just dies to random hits if it tries to set up, especially on the physical side.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Doublade is gone now and Misdreavus is at least better than Dusknoir. It is one of the best spinblockers in the tier and has some good durability, but however, its main niche is gone as it no longer truly counters the Fighting-types, as they can all carry Knock Off to deal with it.

Misdreavus still has a niche but more specially defensive than physically defensive like last gen. Misdreavus is probably also better at Nasty Plotting due to its greater bulk whereas Mismagius just dies to random hits if it tries to set up, especially on the physical side.

Mismagius is a way more terrifying nasty plotter. SubNP plows trough most teams.

 

[Vivmeister10]

Should Specs Swellow be running Modest or Timid?
It fails to outpace base 110's (Tauros, Raichu) with Modest but is that worth the extra power?

 

[thdhted]

Should Specs Swellow be running Modest or Timid?
It fails to outpace base 110's (Tauros, Raichu) with Modest but is that worth the extra power?

boomburst swellow is pretty bad imo especially since if you get rid of its specs it becomes deadweight. Run chatot instead, who at least has nasty plot and decent sp atk.

 

[Vivmeister10]

boomburst swellow is pretty bad imo especially since if you get rid of its specs it becomes deadweight. Run chatot instead, who at least has nasty plot and decent sp atk.

Swellow is faster, has Scrappy, and surprises a lot of physical walls with a specs set.

It isn't bad at all in that regard

 

[Aasgier]

Mismagius is a way more terrifying nasty plotter. SubNP plows trough most teams.

Misdreavus can run the same set and has an easier time setting up.

However, Mismagius is indeed faster and has slightly more Special Attack, making it more powerful, but it also dies to attacks Misdreavus has no problem tanking.

 

[thdhted]

Swellow is faster, has Scrappy, and surprises a lot of physical walls with a specs set.

It isn't bad at all in that regard

yes, chatot lacks scrappy. But give at least it is not deadweight without its item. With knock off everywhere, losing the item that allows you to hit anything for reasonable damage is really big

 

[termi]

yes, chatot lacks scrappy. But give at least it is not deadweight without its item. With knock off everywhere, losing the item that allows you to hit anything for reasonable damage is really big

Swellow dies to any strong hit anyway so it shouldn't be taking any random hit to begin with