Big Everybody Votes Mafia Game Over; Democracy and Communism win

[UncleSam]

It should be obvious from LightWolf's response that I am not planning some hostile takeover with the Oligarchy

LightWolf I'll post my numbers if you do so first, I however have no plan to let you do an exact endgame calculation with no variables in play, nor will I tell you exactly where you stand with this lynch. If you try to take this lynch know that it will be a risk for you and that if played perfectly you will lose.

 

[LightWolf]

So your whole argument is is, Neutral+Oligarchy outnumber the village, but I won't tell anyone what these numbers are you just gotta take my word for it. Thanks for making your point clear!

 

[UncleSam]

Neutrals+Oligarchy will outvote the village tomorrow if we do not lynch one today*

Important distinction

 

[LightWolf]

I still fail to see any numerical proof of this that'd prove your statement and I'd say that's because if you did list those numbers it'd become clear that you are either horrible at faking the numbers or you will create a list which provides that neutrals with your team may be able to accomplish the same. So please, do me a favour and do provide us what number of village neutrals and oligarchy there are respectively that proves your argument?

 

[Blue_Tornado]

tl;dr

A villager is just going to confirm this soon. If they don't, your leadership is bust and you guys will have to void Ka-something before deadline yourselves, mafia-sam or not.

The Oligarchy have no interest in helping the village at this juncture.

 

[UncleSam]

tl;dr LightWolf confirms that Kobold is Oligarchy for the village or else he wouldn't be arguing about the numbers

 

[Yeti]

 

[zorbees]

After attaining new information overnight, we are going to be lynching Troll, aka Walrein, today. Remember, he claims crier, which we already have one crier claim that is far more likely. Additionally, I put two cry targets in the votes last night, but only one showed up. I asked Walrein if he got any results, and he did not tell me he was hooked.

I have reason to believe Walrein is Theocracy, the other wolf. Eliminating a harmful neutral is always a high priority, and seeing Paperblade's PM, he probably is very strong.

After another look-over of the sheet, I don't really buy Sam's claim that the Oligarchy still have 6-7 members. There are too many people who are clean or likely clean. With Sam's admitted 4 remaining, and Walrein, there aren't enough spots there for 6-7 more scums.

 

[LightWolf]

tl;dr LightWolf confirms that Kobold is Oligarchy for the village or else he wouldn't be arguing about the numbers

You brought up numbers and still didn't provide them, of course I'm gonna argue when you are lying through your teeth.

 

[UncleSam]

Ya zorbees pretty much just confirmed he is Oligarchy rofl

The notion that the village could eliminate a neutral who could potentially kill mafias when there are way more mafia than villagers alive is simply ridiculous

I have three members alive currently, I guess there's no harm in admitting that. Oligarchy have 6, village has 6, there are two neutrals who can win with either mafia (all they need is village to die)

Hide

[10:11] <UncleSam> i buy
[10:11] <UncleSam> that walrein is wolf
[10:11] <UncleSam> but why the fuck would you not lynch an oligarchy today
[10:11] <zorbees> i posted my reasoning
[10:11] <zorbees> i don't know what else i have to explain
[10:11] <UncleSam> ok
[10:12] <UncleSam> thanks for confirming
[10:12] <UncleSam> you are oligarchy
[10:12] <UncleSam> ^_^
[10:12] <zorbees> nop
[10:12] <zorbees> according to my estimations
[10:12] <zorbees> oligarchy has at most like 5
[10:12] <zorbees> and you have 4
[10:12] <zorbees> so its good to keep yo even
[10:12] <UncleSam> nah its
[10:12] <UncleSam> 6/3
[10:12] <UncleSam> bro
[10:13] <UncleSam> why would you think
[10:13] <zorbees> you already told me you started with 8
[10:13] <UncleSam> mafias dont have even numbers
[10:13] <zorbees> because it makes no sense
[10:13] <UncleSam> i was including paperblade with me
[10:13] <zorbees> thered be like 2 villagers left which doesnt agree with all the people who have confirmed roles
[10:13] <UncleSam> since ill admit he had me duped
[10:13] <UncleSam> there are 6 villagers remaining
[10:14] <UncleSam> if you dont lynch oligarchy today
[10:14] <UncleSam> its gg
[10:14] <zorbees> if you claim to only have 3
[10:14] <zorbees> why do i have 4 fascist aliases
[10:14] <UncleSam> which ones
[10:14] <UncleSam> do you have
[10:14] <UncleSam> as fascist
[10:14] <zorbees> dryad minotaur and 2 others
[10:15] <UncleSam> well one of the 'two others'
[10:15] <UncleSam> is wrong
[10:15] <UncleSam> lol
[10:15] <zorbees> if you say so
[10:16] <UncleSam> tell you what
[10:16] <UncleSam> why not tell me which two you think
[10:16] <UncleSam> are fascist
[10:16] <UncleSam> and ill tell you which fascist
[10:17] <UncleSam> to lynch
[10:17] <UncleSam> why would i do that
[10:17] <UncleSam> if i have four members
[10:17] <zorbees> why would you do it at all?
[10:17] <UncleSam> because right now
[10:17] <UncleSam> an oligarchy needs to be lynched
[10:17] <UncleSam> you obviously have one confused
[10:17] <UncleSam> for one of mine
[10:17] <zorbees> is basilisk yours
[10:18] <UncleSam> basilisk is village
[10:18] <UncleSam> i thought it was oligarchy then checked it last night
[10:18] <zorbees> no hes ur mole
[10:18] <UncleSam> lol
[10:18] <zorbees> you clearly checked kobold last night
[10:18] <UncleSam> no i didnt
[10:18] <UncleSam> i havent checked kobold at all
[10:18] <zorbees> then how did you know its oligarchy
[10:18] <UncleSam> lightwolf gave me
[10:19] <UncleSam> a list of aliases to kill
[10:19] <UncleSam> night 0
[10:19] <UncleSam> mostly in the middle fo the alphabet
[10:19] <UncleSam> centered around kobold but not including kobold
[10:19] <UncleSam> when you confirmed for me
[10:19] <zorbees> yeah thats solid info
[10:19] <UncleSam> that kobold hasnt claimed
[10:19] <UncleSam> well you lynched my inspector bro
[10:19] <zorbees> yeah im smart
[10:19] <UncleSam> its legit
[10:19] <UncleSam> obvously
[10:20] <UncleSam> since oligarchy is arguing it
[10:20] <zorbees> i know its obv oligarchy now
[10:20] <zorbees> but that doesnt mean you didnt check it
[10:20] <UncleSam> if you know its obviously oligarchy
[10:20] <UncleSam> why would you not lynch it
[10:20] <zorbees> because i think wolf lynch is more important
[10:20] <UncleSam> if walrein is truly wolf you could control
[10:20] <zorbees> i don't buy your numbers
[10:20] <UncleSam> him
[10:20] <zorbees> controlling wolf is impossible
[10:20] <zorbees> see: fallout 3 mafia
[10:20] <UncleSam> ok im done
[10:21] <UncleSam> talking to you
[10:21] <UncleSam> you are obviously oligarchy
[10:21] <zorbees> if he gave me
[10:21] <zorbees> his full role pm
[10:21] <zorbees> maybe i'd be able to control him
[10:22] <UncleSam> if you seriously bought that i had
[10:22] <UncleSam> four members
[10:22] <UncleSam> then you would think logically
[10:22] <UncleSam> that there are 7 oligarchy left
[10:22] <zorbees> why would you lie
[10:22] <zorbees> no
[10:22] <zorbees> the numbers aren't equal
[10:22] <UncleSam> why would i lie?
[10:22] <UncleSam> so that you wouldnt decide
[10:22] <UncleSam> to try to eliminate all facism
[10:22] <UncleSam> to eliminate a night kill
[10:23] <UncleSam> it was a viable strategy at the time
[10:23] <zorbees> that was never an option
[10:23] <UncleSam> well given your zeal
[10:23] <UncleSam> for hunting down fascists this game
[10:23] <UncleSam> im sure youd have tried it
[10:23] <zorbees> ipl wanted to do that
[10:23] <zorbees> but i convinced him it wasnt smart
[10:23] <UncleSam> ipl called off
[10:23] <UncleSam> the fascist lynch
[10:23] <UncleSam> in favor of oligarchy
[10:23] <zorbees> i told him to call that off
[10:23] <UncleSam> suuuure you did
[10:23] <UncleSam> i was talking to him
[10:23] <UncleSam> the whole time
[10:23] <zorbees> we were working as a team
[10:23] <UncleSam> he told me striaght up
[10:24] <UncleSam> he thought you were oligarchy
[10:24] <UncleSam> i even posted the log in the thread lol
[10:24] <zorbees> lol ok

Lynching a neutral at this juncture is absolutely ridiculous; equally ridiculous is lynching a villager, if that is what Walrein is. zorbees openly admits that Kobold is a known Oligarchy alias. Yet he still refuses to lynch it. He then claims that a lynch he championed he in fact called off (anyone can go back and look at the Day 4 thread to see that this is blatently false), and I will reiterate for anyone who missed it the last time around:
[23:29] <imperfectluck> big B_T the Fascist eh
[23:29] <UncleSam> you know
[23:29] <UncleSam> youre going to lose
[23:29] <UncleSam> right
[23:29] <imperfectluck> ya
[23:29] <imperfectluck> cause zorbees is leading the village
[23:29] <imperfectluck> to defeat
[23:29] <imperfectluck> ~
[23:32] <imperfectluck> I didn't know
[23:32] <imperfectluck> he was a fascist
[23:33] <imperfectluck> much like how I didn't know dryad was a fascist
[23:33] <imperfectluck> until you mentioned it
[23:33] <imperfectluck> ~
[23:33] <UncleSam> i told zorbees
[23:33] <UncleSam> he said he would tell you
[23:33] <UncleSam> did he not?
[23:33] <imperfectluck> he did not
[23:33] <imperfectluck> so ya maybe zorbees is
[23:33] <imperfectluck> oligarchy
[23:33] <imperfectluck> there's no reason for pidge to have died
[23:33] <imperfectluck> or his alias to have been exposed
[23:33] <imperfectluck> and he should have been decoyed

It is absolutely ridiculous for any villager not to vote for Kobold today. Please some other villager step up and collect claims because currently an Oligarchy is leading your faction, which will result in both your and my loss.

 

[zorbees]

UncleSam you should know that looking at the thread doesn't give you enough information. IPL trusted me enough to not go against me in the night actions, etc. I could probably find logs of me/IPL discussing the merits of that lynch.

 

[UncleSam]

I'm all ears zorbees

Besides the real question here is not what faction you are but who ought to be lynched. It should be obvious from the numbers alone that an Oligarchy must be lynched, and Kobold is quite obviously an Oligarchy alias at this point; even you admitted this.

Villagers please use your brains and think about this

 

[Blue_Tornado]

<zorbees> no hes ur mole

wtf

There should be copious amounts of evidence to back up our case here. I'll see if I can contribute when I'm home.

 

[UncleSam]

Ya Basilisk is village or a mole role based on my result from last night; not that it even matters. The Oligarchy have three more members than Fascism based solely on the kill differential thus far (which is viewable in the OP or on the anon forums) so it really doesn't matter whether I have three or four left.

 

[zorbees]

1) Who said I was being serious
2) Basilisk was tracked by HD the night before last.

You guys are obviously lying about the numbers. You claimed that both factions had 8 earlier in the game and now claim 7 is the real number. Additionally it made no sense for UncleSam to be talking about Paperblade as one of his numbers like he said to me that he was.

 

[UncleSam]

Hide

[23:17] <UncleSam> can i have your role pm
[23:18] <UncleSam> from what you said earlier i could help you greatly
[23:18] <UncleSam> with predictions
[23:19] <Paperblade> You are Lex Luthor.
[23:19] <Paperblade> Look at these pack of idiots. If they were really so intelligent, they would hide within the system like you. Literally the smartest man on Earth, there was a casual ease to getting anything you wanted so long as you had no morals. This war just isnt pragmatic, but maybe you can make some use of it.
[23:19] <Paperblade> Each night you can play the stock market. You may PM vonFiedler with a list of predictions for each village night action. Each correct prediction gains you $1,000,000. Hereby shortened to $1. You can then use your money to pay for various actions. You start with $3.
[23:19] <Paperblade> $1 - Stealth (Cannot be inspected, checked, tracked, or watched for one night.)
[23:19] <Paperblade> $2 - APV (Protects from one harmful non-kill action. Each subsequent APV costs $2 extra, stacking.)
[23:19] <Paperblade> $6 - Kill (Cannot use more than once a night.)
[23:19] <Paperblade> $12 - Stop Lynch (Can only be used once.)
[23:19] <Paperblade> You can also buy night action votes. You can vote on any number of night actions this way, but adding more than one vote to a single night action increases the cost. Use the following table to determine the cost of votes;
[23:19] <Paperblade> $1 - 1 Vote
[23:19] <Paperblade> $3 - 2 Votes
[23:19] <Paperblade> $6 - 3 Votes
[23:19] <Paperblade> $10 - 4 Votes
[23:19] <Paperblade> $15 - 5 Votes
[23:19] <Paperblade> You know that Superman and Big Barda are not in this game. You also know that Backup can be used as a -VOTE ACTION- claim. You also know that there are Communists in this game that are village aligned and that they want you dead. Fortunately they are millers and will be seen as anti-village.
[23:19] <Paperblade> An example of a Role PM is layed out in the Night 0 post. Villagers ALWAYS have a -VOTE ACTION- (which is always -VOTE ACTION- when referred to as such, but would look like -VOTE INSPECTOR-, -VOTE HOOKER-, -VOTE ROGUE-, etc., at the beginning of the paragraph explaining it. Villagers also always have another secondary ability. Sometimes these are passive, sometimes they can be used. Usually
[23:19] <Paperblade> they are gimmicky.
[23:19] <Paperblade> The Democracy win conditions is;
[23:19] <Paperblade> You are allied with Democracy. You win if all threats to freedom are destroyed.
[23:19] <Paperblade> You are allied with Capitalism. You win if all threats to your money is eliminated.
[23:20] <UncleSam> ok just one second
[23:20] <UncleSam> to digest this

Hide

[20:13] <UncleSam> k cool
[20:13] <UncleSam> lemme know how many points you get
[20:13] <UncleSam> also
[20:13] <UncleSam> can i have your alias
[20:13] <UncleSam> so i dont target it with an info role
[20:14] <Paperblade> isn't your inspect dead
[20:14] <UncleSam> i have an alliance checker
[20:14] <UncleSam> who finds whether someone is village or not
[20:14] <Paperblade> aha
[20:15] <UncleSam> i already have an anti-village
[20:15] <UncleSam> result
[20:15] <UncleSam> but idk if its you or someone else
[20:15] <UncleSam> id rather not sel an alias out thinking its oligarchy
[20:15] <UncleSam> to the village
[20:15] <UncleSam> only to have it be you X_X
[20:15] <Paperblade> I am
[20:15] <Paperblade> efreeti
[20:16] <UncleSam> ok great
[20:16] <UncleSam> i was randing someone else anyway
[20:16] <UncleSam> thats good i can sell out the other alias i have
[20:16] <UncleSam> if need be
[20:16] <UncleSam>

Paperblade duped me into believing that he could win with me, so I was working with him. I have over 200 additional lines of logs compiled between the two of us if people really want to see a detailed history of our interactions, but the point of all of this is that I was going to claim Efreeti as one of mine in case he was being lynched in order to protect him. This is the reason I lied about my numbers earlier.

The precise number of people I have on my team, however, is irrelevant; what is relevant is that Oligarchy have three more than I do. What is also relevant is that the wolf could be helpful to the village, and there is no reason not to hit the mafia that is in complete control of the game at this moment.

 

[Blue_Tornado]

As mafia I instinctively lie about information when it's possible. The question you should have asked is why would sam give you the actual numbers.

 

[Ampharos]

Hi yea it's me Theocracy. I'm still town crier though >_>

Dear Troll,
You are Darkseid.

The man. The king. The god. Apokolips has become a perfect world under your image, an achievement a lesser being would be satisfied with. But the universe needs more. You seek to obtain the anti-life equation and use it to eliminate all free will. It is what all the people need.

-VOTE CRIER- Your will is supreme. By calling out to the ignorant masses, an announcement will be made and a single vote will be placed on ALIAS.

As a god, much of your power comes from God Kills. Normally I would not allow this, but I am giving you my blessing. Each night, you may Post Restrict an ALIAS so that they must praise Darkseid with each post (this does not otherwise impede their ability to lynch). Failure to do so will result in a God Kill.

Each night you may use the anti-life equation to doom an ALIAS. Faced with mathematical proof of the futility of living, they will be given a choice to God Kill themselves. Each time you do this, attach one incentive to the equation. You may use each incentive only once. Negative incentives harm players, who can choose to remove the negative effect at the cost of dying after two nights have passed. These are;
1. No lynch or night vote, 2. The permanent ability for you to redirect their night action, 3. The inability to win if they die before the game ends, 4. Their night targets to be announced, and their entire role PM announced within 2 days.
Positive incentives bestow one permanent bonus action upon a teammate, but at the cost of dying after one night. These are;
1. Hooker, 2. Bodyguard, 3. Safeguard, 4. Inspector

You may use your Omega Beams to protect you from inspection. Since their trajectory is erratic, inspectors will be led to believe that they were hooked (as opposed to be being blocked). Still, it’s up to you whether you want this protection up or not. By default it is working.

You know that Mister Miracle and The Spectre are not in this game. You also know that there are Communists in this game that are village aligned and that they want you dead. Fortunately they are millers and will be seen as anti-village.

An example of a Role PM is layed out in the Night 0 post. Villagers ALWAYS have a -VOTE ACTION- (which is always -VOTE ACTION- when referred to as such, but would look like -VOTE INSPECTOR-, -VOTE HOOKER-, -VOTE ROGUE-, etc., at the beginning of the paragraph explaining it. Villagers also always have another ability similar to your secondary abilities. Sometimes these are passive, sometimes they can be used. Usually they are gimmicky.

The Democracy win conditions is;
You are allied with Democracy. You win if all threats to freedom are destroyed.

You are allied with Theocracy. You win when only the dead shout your praises.

So here's the deal folks. I'm of the opinion that if I'm lynched, Oligarchy's gonna steamroll the rest of the game. You guys don't want that, do you?

Additionally, as you can see, every method of killing I have is entirely based upon the actions of others. Effectively, this means I can no longer win now that I've been exposed. What this means is that I'll be selling my services to the highest bidder. Democracy, this means you. All I ask is that we lynch off some Oligarchy - assuming symmetrical mafias, there should be far more Oligarchy left than Fascism.

 

[LightWolf]

Thank you for lying about the numbers finally US, you really could have done better.

AHEM!

Firstly here is my special piece of proof directly from the host:

You know that there are more Fascists than there are Oligarchs.

These was one of the hints we were given at the start of the game, and a hint the Fascists specifically used at the start of the game to get me to prove I'm Oligarchy when I contacted rare, I think it was rare, was ages ago. Now US is claiming that currently there are 3 Fascists and 6 Oligarchy, this doesn't make sense since that suggests 7-7 starting numbers. Clearly this goes against the line I quoted.

Let me level with you all, you have no reason to believe the actual numbers we have I will shortly reveal, but considering the pasted line above, that'd mean even in the worst case of me lying(which I'm not) the actual numbers would be 4 Fascists 5 Oligarchy 6 Village. Now please add 1+1 together people. With an Olie lynch today, say 2 villagers dying we'd be left with say: 4 fascists, 4 oligarchy and 4 village. Guess what that'd mean, well mostly the repeat of today, mafias trying to convince the village to vote for the other, or you know they could just team up and make the village a non issue.

But say you don't lynch an oligarch, but lynch a Fascist which US claims ends the game: 3 Fascists, 5 Oligarchy, 4 village(yeah like facists wouldn't crossfire us if this were the correct numbers). I'm sorry but at most Oligarchy and neutrals can tie, and neutrals would not reveal themselves for a tie, this is assuming no mayors, and that a wolf has any braincells and doesn't out himself in the vote.

So those are the options IN THE MILDEST CASE WHERE WE FOLLOW THE FACT THAT FACISTS OUTNUMBERED OLIGARCHY AT THE START OF THE GAME.

Now here is the very true statement that nobody will believe about the ACTUAL OLIGARCHY NUMBERS CURRENTLY: 4. The game started with mere 5 oligarchy. <slow_clap.vfx>

Which if we use US' numbers leads to a funny switch in numbers: 5 Fascists, 4 Oligarchy and 6 Villagers currently. Yeah this would mean 9 starting Fascists, and I'm inclined to believe that number for a simple reason that I can't tell you guys but it's basically the damned theme of the game. Either way this scenario needs no explanation as to why it'd be silly to lynch oligarchy today doesn't it?

SO WHY SHOULD ANYONE BELIEVE MY OUTRAGEOUS CLAIM ABOUT THE NUMBERS IN THIS GAME? Simple because just above I proved I could have made up a much more convincing scenario that'd dissuade an oligarchy lynch and prove US is lying about taking over that game (not to mention his numbers don't even work, if oligarchy had 6 and he had 3, and we lynched non oligarchy, he'd 100% kill one of us and not village, wolf would likely hit us as well, only we'd hit village, reducing numbers to 5+neutrals vs 2+wolf+5(and this is without wolf killing), and he claims there are 2 neutrals, which means his whole claim is a lie, even if we prevent Fascists from killing us we only barely tie, and it'd still out the neutrals who likely don't want to pick sides openly for anything but a sure win)

So yeah, my claim is stupidly unlikely, but I can't help it if it's simply the truth, only 4 Oligarchy are left in this game, this is the truth and I swear on the life of my doggies(not a joke, I'm serious here, anyone who knows me at all should realise I would never joke around with the lives of dogs)


TL;DR: US is lying, Oligarchy started with less members than Fascists, both factions new this Fascists tried to use this to confirm our claims when we made first contact. US's provided numbers don't lead to an Oligarchy Majority proving he has lied. I swore on my doggies that Oligarchy started with 5 members leaving us with 4 currently, meaning US's numbers for village and neutrals mean he has 5 left and I'd never lie if my doggies are involved

 

[UncleSam]

Ok let's say there are 3 Fascists left (this is truth), 4 Oligarchy, 2 neutrals, 1 wolf: This makes 10 of the 18 remaining. This leaves 8 villagers. Why in gods name would the village lynch the wolf in this scenario? Why would they not even the mafias? 8/3/3/2/1 is much more favorable than 8/4/3/2 for the village going into a night. Even if LightWolf is telling the truth (which he has no reason to do in this scenario) an Oligarchy lynch is still the best for the village.

 

[Ace Emerald]

Time to stop being a useless piece of shit and do something ^_^

[10:17] <zorbees> is basilisk yours
[10:18] <UncleSam> basilisk is village
[10:18] <UncleSam> i thought it was oligarchy then checked it last night
[10:18] <zorbees> no hes ur mole

Dear Basilisk,
You are Green Lantern.

Born Guy Gardner, you were a juvenile delinquent turned dumb jock who earned a Green Lantern ring likely after any sense of fear had been beaten out of you by your alcoholic father. Needless to say, you are by far the most obnoxious Green Lantern and most other heroes keep their distance.

-VOTE PRIO DOWN- This isn’t so much a superpower, but just by trying to hang around ALIAS they will decide they’d rather just stop what they are doing and leave. This reduces the priority on their night actions.

The Green Lantern ring is one of the most versatile weapons of the galaxy, only restricted by its users imagination. You can only imagine using any of the -VOTE ACTIONS-. Twice per game, when a player with a -VOTE ACTION- dies, you can copy their power and use it once.

You are allied with Democracy. You win if all threats to freedom are destroyed.

I'm basilisk and zorbees is well aware that I'm village (the mafia has this full PM already), and he's also aware that I haven't been paying much attention to this game. A mixture of confusion as to who was telling the truth, mistrust of powerful players I know frequently lie, and laziness on my part means I haven't really been paying attention. I wouldn't listen to the mafia telling us not to lynch mafia.

 

[zorbees]

I think both Lightwolf and UncleSam are lying, I have more than 6 villagers who are 99% clean, even if you subtract 2 for neutrals.

Lightwolf claims 5 Fascists 4 Oligarchy
UncleSam claims 3 Fascists 6 Oligarchy

taking the middleman and putting it at 4/5 seems reasonable at this point. Except for the fact that 9 mafias left is too many due to my first sentence in this post. So it is either 4/4 or 3/5, which neither scenario allows for the Oligarchy to take complete control with 2 neutrals.

 

[Agape]

tl;dr

 

[UncleSam]

zorbees if it is 3/5 (which it is if Oligarchy started with 6, which is the lowest possible) then a wolf lynch will result in:
7/5/3/2, at which point Fascist kill will easily be redirected/hooked (both of which the Oligarchy have demonstrated having), and to go along with the crier vote (which will presumably be used on a Fascist by the village leadership) and the Silencer that is still alive the Oligarchy and neutrals will have majority after killing Pokeguy (if he is telling the truth about his role having a vote of -2) or a tie after killing any Fascist/Democrat. Via: 6/5/3/2 (Only a 9 to 7 advantage via raw numbers, plus crier/silencer). This is not even to mention that Oligarchy might well have a persuader, mayor, or other vote ability (or a LYNCH STOP ability). There are a ton of ways in which the Oligarchy and neutrals could win with zero potential counterplay if you lynch Walrein or a Fascist.

Walrein is outed and is not a threat to anyone other than the Oligarchy at this point. Please hit the larger mafia this day. Literally the only argument LightWolf has against this is claiming that the Oligarchy started with FOUR LESS MEMBERS than the Fascists; this is completely ridiculous, and even if it were true then odds are they have incredibly powerful abilities to counteract it, abilities which could easily swing the game in their favor if not dealt with. They have lost THREE LESS MEMBERS than Fascism has; we need to stabilize the numbers in this game or it will tip the scales over the edge.

 

[zorbees]

Even if it goes to 7/5/3/2, I don't get how that means the Oligarchy will win from there. We have a lot of ways to counteract their stuff. I'm not a retard, I'd obviously use Crier and Silencer on Oligarchy. We have the Pokeguy -2 vote. We have a Decoy to protect whoever we want. I don't see how 5 Oligarchists could get rid of all of this stuff in one night, while also blocking your kill. Plus, if you really are so much against the Oligarchy like you claim, we'd collaborate all of our roles against them.