Metagame NP: NU (beta): Welcome to the NU Age (Combusken Banned)

[November Rain]

I've been using offensive calm mind slurpuff alongside swords dance feraligatr, and so far the two seem to work pretty well together. The great thing about this core is that each can set up on some of the other's revenge killers. For example, gatr sets up an sd, shiftry revenge kills but then slurpuff is there ready to grab a calm mind. Or it can work the other way around, if a fast scarfer like pyroar revenges slurpuff, gatr gets a free swords dance.

 

[noknuckles]

I remember using a completely terrible Slurpuff set when XY OU first came out

Sweetie Belle (Slurpuff) @ Red Card
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Bold Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Calm Mind
- Flamethrower
- Aromatherapy

People fearing Belly Drum will probably stay in and attack with whatever they have. If they get red carded into something that can't deal with Slurpuff, you get 2 free set-up turns. People trying to Toxic Stall you will just get set up on. Aroma and Draining Kiss makes you immortal. I believe 80 EVs in Spe was for base 130s, which is basically as fast as they get (Accelgor outspeeds, as does Deoxys-S which is thankfully not in NU). This number can be adjusted for whatever is important in NU.

You have the option of investing in special attack to actually be threatening with a few boosts, but if you do that you may as well just use good moves like Dazzling Gleam in place of DKiss and one of its coverage moves in place of Aroma (then again, Fairy/Fire is probably good enough, and Aroma could be good for things that think it can toxic stall)

And for good measure, here's a meaningless replay from over half a year ago. And don't tell me I got lucky right from Turn 1. Slurpuff is so powerful it creates its own luck through sheer adorableness
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-72350405

I'm gonna try this out in NU. Perhaps team it up with something like Ferroseed who can switch into poison and steel moves with ease and do generally annoying things that can wear down the opponent and help Slurpuff complete a sweep. Then again, perhaps Ferroseed is a better partner for the more offensively minded Slurpuffs. Not sure if I really need spikes if I'm expecting to do like 23% damage with Slurpuff. Seismitoad can work too, as it's a good hazard setter, and good annoyer with Scald and Knock Off

 

[jake]

i made a thing today and will probably regret posting it shortly

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave

fantastic shiftry lure - most people run +atk or +spa, so this outspeeds and kills after a bit of damage (aka you scald it and then outspeed and kill with sludge wave). i also considered a physical version, being eq / knock off / ice punch, but ice punch is substantially weaker and i don't like it as much. this is a good set in the current meta, but people will run +spe shiftry eventually (which makes it easier on a lot of other pokes!).

additionally, subcm uxie and the colbur dbond mismagius set that punchshroom posted a while back have been working wonders for me (though i was using taunt dbond first and still am using it, i like the addition of colbur on it). audino is my favorite defensive poke, though it kind of sucks that so many things can set up on it - encore audino owns tho if you dont need / already have hb support. also i'm a big fan of garbodor ATM, it does super well in the current metagame

 

[RufflesPro]

Nobody suggested this set yet?
I have been using it and it's great for me so far.

Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Cotton Guard
- Psychic / Surf / Thunderbolt
- Draining Kiss​

This may look really gimmicky, but it's actually great, the set describes itself, cotton guard on physical attackers and cm on special attackers, easier said than done. However, 252 HP Slurpuff take a decent hit, CMs / CGs, and with sitrus berry it not only outspeeds [Mostly] but it takes another hit of the move it lastly used. Best part is that DK does a decent amount at +1 and heals A LOT, I'm telling you A LOT.

EDIT: Jaguar360 sorry I skimmed through the comments and didn't notice, looking at your set I prolly should put some speed EVs and yeah Psychic > Flamethrower with Magneton out.



I don't know about E-vire, good coverage but really weak moves, not the best attacking, but on paper, a PuP set looks pretty decent tbh.

 

[Jaguar360]

Nobody suggested this set yet?
I have been using it and it's great for me so far.

Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Cotton Guard
- Flamethrower / Surf / Energy Ball
- Draining Kiss​

This may look really gimmicky, but it's actually great, the set describes itself, cotton guard on physical attackers and cm on special attackers, easier said than done. However, 252 HP Slurpuff take a decent hit, CMs / CGs, and with sitrus berry it not only outspeeds [Mostly] but it takes another hit of the move it lastly used. Best part is that DK does a decent amount at +1 and heals A LOT, I'm telling you A LOT.



I don't know about E-vire, good coverage but really weak moves, not the best attacking, but on paper, a PuP set looks pretty decent tbh.

I would argue that the offensive metagame actually gives Slurpuff more chances to set up, at least for the Calm Mind variants since stall is their bane. While Slurpuff doesn't find too many opportunities to set up, choiced Pokemon like Sawk, Pangoro and Primeape can be used as setup fodder for it. I personally prefer Cotton Guard + Calm Mind to protect against priority and physical attackers in general, but Calm Mind + 3 attacks is pretty good too just for the sake of coverage.

Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 SAtk / 152 Spd / 104 HP
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Cotton Guard
- Draining Kiss/Dazzling Gleam
- Psychic/Surf/Thunderbolt

I like using Draining Kiss on the double boosting set because it is great for keeping Slurpuff healthy since it heals so much and gets good power as Slurpuff continues to gather Calm Mind boosts. Dazzling Gleam is probably a must for sets without Cotton Guard or on Rest + Chesto Berry sets. I feel that Psychic is the best coverage move for Slurpuff in NU just because Dragalgae and other Poison types are here, but Surf and Thunderbolt are probably just as good. Flamethrower is not as good in NU as it is in other types because Steelix is really one of the only viable Steel type Pokemon in NU at the moment now that Magneton and Doublade are gone (there's Ferroseed and Probopass too I guess).

Slurpuff doesn't seem too strong for NU right now as I thought it would be, but it is definitely one of the strongest Pokemon in the tier atm.

I did :)
I really do still think this is the most effective Slurpuff set, though the Calm Mind + 3 Attacks set is good too and easier to use. While double boosting doesn't have as much coverage, it is more resistant against priority and it allows you to muscle through checks more easily. It is really only possible to take it down through status once it gets going, or strong, bulky attackers with SE moves earlier on. It is pretty beastly. :3

 

[Jedimono8895]

Hey guys, I made a video about the NU tier changes. Don't mean to advertise nessecarily, but I think this video is relevant to this thread and provides some good information and insight.

I personally think Slurpuff is going to be a great check to Spiritomb. Granbull was Spiritomb's main check, so we'll be seeing less Granbull IMO.

 

[Jillix]

While everyone is seeing slurpuff as a sweeper, as a defensive player, I have found it to be a great physical wall. It easily stops fighting and dark attacks, and with full defensive investment, can take quite a few other attacks while being able to heal and wish pass.

 

[Martin]

I'm just gonna say that Cotton Guard really sucks on Slurpuff. Setting up defense is a big momentum killer, and why do that when you could, say, run better coverage or gain some form or reliable recovery? If you want to run a special set, just run this:

Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry / Chesto Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss (/ Dazzling Gleam if you desperately need the power extra, but only run on sets with Rest)
- Flamethrower
- Surf / Rest

Not much to say with the set. Draining Kiss is there for that passive recovery, but Dazzling Gleam can be used if you're running rest (but sometimes both Draining Kiss and Rest could work together, and generally you should go for Draining Kiss), Flamethrower to hit dem Steel-types hard. Surf is great for hitting Rock/Ground-types like Golem, Rhydon etc. hard, but Rest is also great for recovery, and it activates Unburden (assuming your Chesto Berry hasn't been knocked off/consumed already)

On a side note (for discussion purposes only), there were a load of things which shocked me when I found out they had moved down back when this thread first started, such as, but not limited to, Steelix, Klinklang, Lilligant, Mismagius, and Politoed (I would've thought that that would at least go UU as rain is still great in OU). What were the things that you least expected to end up NU that moved down (exc. Venomoth and Sigilyph, as they have been banned for their respective reasons)

 

[Jaguar360]

I've been loving my physically defensive Dragalgae. With fully invested defense, it has great mixed bulk and is pretty much guaranteed to set up a couple toxic spikes each round. The attacks it survives are pretty crazy. More useful than Assault Vest IMO for now.
Dragalge @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Sludge Wave
- Dragon Tail
Some calcs:
252+ Atk Golurk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dragalge: 270-318 (80.8 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (you obviously shouldn't try to take this unless you really need to; this is just a demonstration of Dragalgae's bulk)
4 Atk Seismitoad Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dragalge: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 47.3% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
180+ SpA Xatu Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dragalge: 204-242 (61 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
180+ SpA Xatu Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dragalge: 168-200 (50.2 - 59.8%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dragalge: 146-173 (43.7 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dragalge: 156-185 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 15.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Archeops Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dragalge: 180-212 (53.8 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Regirock Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dragalge: 156-184 (46.7 - 55%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dragalge: 276-326 (82.6 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Granbull Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dragalge: 176-208 (52.6 - 62.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

 

[WhiteDMist]

Here's a Pokemon that I am diappointed hasn't been talked about that much yet:

Gothorita @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Energy Ball / Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Trick

Pretty standard Specs Goth, though the moves can change depending on your team's needs. Goth works extremely well at removing several Pokemon that give great sweepers such as Feraligatr, Barbaracle, and Slurpuff a hard time. Stuff like Vileplume, Weezing, Seismitoad, Poliwrath, Gurdurr, etc. can all be removed if Gothorita gets a safe switch in. I found CB Pangoro works particularly well as a teammate because it can Parting Shot away from its usual switch ins, and then Goth can simply remove them. It helps that many physical attackers tend to have similar checks and counters that all happen to be removed by Gothorita relatively easily. It makes it easier to skew a team in the physically offensive direction, as Goth can remove a minimum of 1 physical wall/tank at the very least. The few physical walls that Goth has trouble with (particularly the Gourgeist formes) are best dealt with by coverage moves, but at least you can pick and choose what you want your physical attackers to be checked by without having to worry about predicting perfectly and/or wearing the other checks/counters down overly much. I have yet to try an Eviolite CM set, but it's next on my list. SO has anyone else found success with teams dedicated around Gothorita's trapping ability?

 

[newfren]

Here's a Pokemon that I am diappointed hasn't been talked about that much yet:

Gothorita @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Energy Ball / Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Trick

Pretty standard Specs Goth, though the moves can change depending on your team's needs. Goth works extremely well at removing several Pokemon that give great sweepers such as Feraligatr, Barbaracle, and Slurpuff a hard time. Stuff like Vileplume, Weezing, Seismitoad, Poliwrath, Gurdurr, etc. can all be removed if Gothorita gets a safe switch in. I found CB Pangoro works particularly well as a teammate because it can Parting Shot away from its usual switch ins, and then Goth can simply remove them. It helps that many physical attackers tend to have similar checks and counters that all happen to be removed by Gothorita relatively easily. It makes it easier to skew a team in the physically offensive direction, as Goth can remove a minimum of 1 physical wall/tank at the very least. The few physical walls that Goth has trouble with (particularly the Gourgeist formes) are best dealt with by coverage moves, but at least you can pick and choose what you want your physical attackers to be checked by without having to worry about predicting perfectly and/or wearing the other checks/counters down overly much. I have yet to try an Eviolite CM set, but it's next on my list. SO has anyone else found success with teams dedicated around Gothorita's trapping ability?

I personally prefer the Rest Talk CM set because it can set up on tons of shit and remove it more reliably, but I think the main reason noone's been talking about gothorita is that uu's probably going to ban it soon.

 

[Jillix]

So I'd like to talk about our lord and pumpkin, Gourgeist. Goirgeist is a great defensive wall, with great support moves from leech seed to will-o-wisp, painsplit, and even the little used trick room. Now I like Gourgeist Small personally, running a fully defensive set with leechseed, willowisp, sub, painsplit, but I'd like to see what other people have been trying, and if the inbetween stages (normal and large) are even usable. Also has anyone tried an offensive flame charge set?

 

[CanadianWifier]

I personally prefer the Rest Talk CM set because it can set up on tons of shit and remove it more reliably, but I think the main reason noone's been talking about gothorita is that uu's probably going to ban it soon.

In NU goth is used (at least, from what I've seen) as more of a part of an offensive core to remove counters to a specific sweeper. I know from talking to some of the UU guys that it plays a very different role there, as UU is significantly more stallier than NU and it can set up CM's all over Florges / Blissey / Slowbro / Mew / etc. Because it's used as a part of an offensive core here, where it's only goal in the battle is to remove the opponent's wall and move on, I feel that the Specs set is the preferred option. Of course both are still viable, but running specs just speeds up the process of killing - which if you're only after one guaranteed kill, is the preferred option :]

 

[Punchshroom]

Gourgeist-Small @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 152 HP / 132 Def / 224 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rock Slide

My favorite Gourgeist set, with an emphasis in speed for effective SubSeeding / SubWisping / all three (:O). The Speed EVs allow it to outrun positive base 95s (this used to outrun Sigilyph, but there is obviously no need for that now). I wanted a Substitute number for SmallGeist, which is to say I want to it to be able to generate 5 Substitutes with the aid of Leftovers without wasting EVs (layman terms: the maximum HP divided by 16 should have a remainder of 1). I chose for this particular blend of HP and Defense since it grants the most efficient amount of bulk. Rock Slide is the main attack of choice to hit Fire-types, Xatu, and Chatot. The flinch chance goes very nicely for SubSeeding as well.

 

[Cuhpcakes]

Awesome contributions everyone, thank you for embellishing our lives with your generosity and brilliance! :)

Ursaring is a BEAST!

Quite Quiet (Ursaring) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Swords Dance

Quite Quiet, oops I mean Ursaring hehe, reaches enough speed to outspeed Timid Pyroar! Yes, equal to base 107 speed after Toxic Orb kicks in, faster than a huge portion of the tier.

Ursaring has enough bulk to take an invested hit, a few univested hits and then some meaning getting a few Swords Dances up is easy.

Holding a monstrous 130 base attack and STAB Facades with coverage crushing what Facade doesn't attack neutrally, super effectively bar Spiritomb and Crustle means Ursaring cleans house.

Just bring Ursaring in with a U-Turn/Volt Switch ko, to revenge/dance on a weak attacker; or if you're real, switch on Toxic or a ghost move(yes Ursaring would outspeed and OHKO Mismagius once Toxic Orb activates!)

Without Swords Dance up, Ursaring without Guts or Life Orb lacks the power to OHKO much so setting up is key. Defensive combatants who are deprived of offensive EVs are the grizzly's friend. Instead of hacking right away at the enemy, dance a little bit to rev up Ursa's havock. One Swords Dance OHKOs the ENTIRE tier except the ones I mention later in calcs, 2 Swords Dances then even a completely healthy physical bulky Steelix is tremored into pieces by a single Earthquake.

These Are All OHKOd by +4

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+2 252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 366-432 (103.3 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO

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+2 252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slurpuff: 363-427 (98.6 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 340-402 (88.5 - 104.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Togetic: 246-289 (78.3 - 92%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 264-312 (76.7 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Quilladin: 228-268 (69.9 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 201-237 (60.1 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 211-249 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Golem: 348-410 (95.6 - 112.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Archeops: 324-382 (111.3 - 131.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 386-456 (134.9 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 238-280 (65.3 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 190-224 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 248-294 (59.9 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 149-176 (49 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dusknoir: 204-242 (69.3 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 140-166 (49.2 - 58.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sandslash: 309-364 (87.2 - 102.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Hippopotas: 258-304 (75.8 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Throh: 523-616 (117.7 - 138.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 349-412 (93.3 - 110.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Omastar: 270-318 (78.4 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 230-272 (70.9 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 225-264 (63.5 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Crustle: 141-166 (40.9 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[termi]

Alright I'm gonna be the first one here to just openly admit that Slurpuff being in the tier absolutely disgusts me. Calm Mind sets frankly suck arse in comparision to Belly Drum sets imo, because unlike the weak CM sets, Belly Drum sets need only a single opportunity to set up to basically annihilate any team once the opponent's Poison- or Steel-type is weakened. Once you see Slurpuff on team preview, you basically have to preserve these mons or, if you don't have anything that can stomach an attack from +6 Puff, preserve your priority users very, very carefully. Now one might say that Slurpuff is hard to set up, but it is not: Its bulk is not too shabby and its defensive typing gives it some really useful resistances, allowing it to set up on Sawk Choice-locked into Close Combat or Knock Off as well as on Specs Dragalge's Dragon STAB, for example. Being decently bulky also means that it doesn't just die to random priority moves, making it even harder to stop. Basically, the fact that Slurpuff can come in on something, set up, and destroy your team means that you always have to play a lot more carefully vs Slurpuff teams than you otherwise would. The meta might need to settle for a bit, but imo Slurpuff is a very unhealthy addition to the metagame.

 

[Cherub Agent]

I agree completely, and would honestly like to see Slurpuff suspected at some point. As Fagtron mentioned (dude what's with the double identity srsly e.e) it definetly has the bulk to quite easily set up on a number of things, and once set up, it's depressingly difficult to revenge kill this Belly Drummer.

252+ Atk Choice Band Hariyama Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 156-184 (50.9 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Band Hariyama is pretty cool, but other than it I'm having trouble stopping Slurpuff from sweeping a standard team. If Slurpuff comes in on something that can't really damage it, then not even Hariyama can revenge kill. If Slurpuff runs a speed boosting nature not even Scarf Pyroar can outspeed it, and gets hammered by Return. The special sets aren't as dangerous as Belly Drum, but do their job of luring out and crushing physically defensive Pokemon so that a physical sweeper like Swellow can clean everything up, as the threat of Belly Drum is so huge that players are nigh forced to go into their physically defensive mon at first. It's honestly nigh identical to Swirlix in LC, and that was justifiably banned.

 

[WhiteDMist]

I agree completely, and would honestly like to see Slurpuff suspected at some point. As Fagtron mentioned (dude what's with the double identity srsly e.e) it definetly has the bulk to quite easily set up on a number of things, and once set up, it's depressingly difficult to revenge kill this Belly Drummer.

252+ Atk Choice Band Hariyama Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 156-184 (50.9 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Band Hariyama is pretty cool, but other than it I'm having trouble stopping Slurpuff from sweeping a standard team. If Slurpuff comes in on something that can't really damage it, then not even Hariyama can revenge kill. If Slurpuff runs a speed boosting nature not even Scarf Pyroar can outspeed it, and gets hammered by Return. The special sets aren't as dangerous as Belly Drum, but do their job of luring out and crushing physically defensive Pokemon so that a physical sweeper like Swellow can clean everything up, as the threat of Belly Drum is so huge that players are nigh forced to go into their physically defensive mon at first. It's honestly nigh identical to Swirlix in LC, and that was justifiably banned.

As good as it is setting up on its own, it is even more difficult to stop with some basic support. Dual Screen Memento/Healing Wish Uxie and Mesprit (respectively), Meowstic-M, and Shadow Tag Gothorita are all excellent teammates to can either make Slurpuff extremely difficult to significantly damage or simply remove the opponent's best answer to it (generally Poison and Steel types).

I personally prefer the Rest Talk CM set because it can set up on tons of shit and remove it more reliably, but I think the main reason noone's been talking about gothorita is that uu's probably going to ban it soon.

All the more reason to talk about and use it before that happens.

 

[Expulso]

So I'd like to talk about our lord and pumpkin, Gourgeist. Goirgeist is a great defensive wall, with great support moves from leech seed to will-o-wisp, painsplit, and even the little used trick room. Now I like Gourgeist Small personally, running a fully defensive set with leechseed, willowisp, sub, painsplit, but I'd like to see what other people have been trying, and if the inbetween stages (normal and large) are even usable. Also has anyone tried an offensive flame charge set?

More like our gourd and savior.

 

[psVoltage]

i made a thing today and will probably regret posting it shortly

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave

fantastic shiftry lure - most people run +atk or +spa, so this outspeeds and kills after a bit of damage (aka you scald it and then outspeed and kill with sludge wave). i also considered a physical version, being eq / knock off / ice punch, but ice punch is substantially weaker and i don't like it as much. this is a good set in the current meta, but people will run +spe shiftry eventually (which makes it easier on a lot of other pokes!).

additionally, subcm uxie and the colbur dbond mismagius set that punchshroom posted a while back have been working wonders for me (though i was using taunt dbond first and still am using it, i like the addition of colbur on it). audino is my favorite defensive poke, though it kind of sucks that so many things can set up on it - encore audino owns tho if you dont need / already have hb support. also i'm a big fan of garbodor ATM, it does super well in the current metagame

Yeah I want to thank you for that Seismitoad set, I was looking to make a lure set myself actually but never actually tried to look at the speed difference. Also what garbodor set are you using? I've been making this bulky spikes team that uses him, but I'm not sure i want to go with max speed and max hp.

 

[Mr James Grey]

252+ Atk Life Orb Shiftry Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dragalge: 146-173 (43.7 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

You shouldn't be getting any item recovery after knock off tho...

 

[Jaguar360]

You shouldn't be getting any item recovery after knock off tho...

Right, it can't switch in consistently, but Knock Off will have less power after the item is Knocked Off and Sucker Punch 2HKO either. Shiftry also has a good chance of getting poisoned thanks to Poison Point. I probably shouldn't have bolded that portion, but I was just trying to show Dragalge's bulk and that it can check Shiftry quite well, but not completely counter since it has no recovery.

 

[Cuhpcakes]

You shouldn't be getting any item recovery after knock off tho...

The calcs show Leftovers and Black Sludge revovery after Knock Off for some reason, it's not Jaguar360's fault.

After Stealth Rock it would probably be a 2HKO alongside Sucker Punch. Without hazards there's no chance.

 

[ryan]

For people struggling to find Slurpuff answers, there are quite a few.

When it comes to defensive answers, the obvious choice is Steel-types. Probopass and Bastiodon handily beat Calm Mind and Belly Drum sets. The former can either paralyze it with Thunder Wave or outright kill it, while the latter can use Toxic to put it on a short timer. Steelix demolishes Belly Drum sets, though doesn't like to take on Calm Mind variants without its Sturdy intact.

Eviolite Haunter is a cute check, though it's not fantastic by any means. It needs a decent amount of defensive investment in order to survive a +6 Play Rough. Weezing can also handle it pretty well, though it doesn't consistently beat Calm Mind variants that run Psychic.

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 223-263 (66.7 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 252+ SpA Slurpuff Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 162-191 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recoveryelly D

Muk wrecks Calm Mind variants, but struggles with Belly Drum.

+1 252+ SpA Slurpuff Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Muk: 240-284 (57.9 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 252+ SpA Slurpuff Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Muk: 162-192 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Not sure how much I'm missing here, though I haven't played with many defensive teams since Slurpuff dropped, so I'm probably not the best person to give defensive checks anyhow.

Offensive teams shouldn't struggle much with it at all. Probopass works fine on offensive teams as well, as it can trap Steelix and other Probopass and provides a slow Volt Switch to grab momentum in throughout the game. Even offensive Probopass can switch directly into Slurpuff, see what it's going to do, and then react with either Flash Cannon or Thunder Wave. It cannot be KO'd, even with a critical hit, from any Slurpuff after one turn of setup.

Liepard and hipster Murkrow can fuck up Slurpuff with priority Thunder Wave, making it incredibly easy to revenge kill after it has set up. Liepard can also lock it into a setup move with Encore, though this is obviously much riskier. Priority in general is great for finishing off a Slurpuff. Kangaskhan can hit it with a strong Fake Out, while Hariyama can hit it with both Fake Out and Bullet Punch or even just Bullet Punch if you don't like running shitty sets.

My general strategy against Slurpuff is to hit it once it has come out and then finish it off later with a priority user or fast Choice Scarf Pokemon. All base 100+ Speed Scarf Pokemon outspeed Unburden-boosted Slurpuff unless it is running a +Speed nature, in which case it misses out on tons of kills. It really hasn't been this huge terror for me to face. I've both used and played against Slurpuff a good amount, and I've been really unimpressed with how it has performed. But that might just be because of my playstyle because few people seem to agree with me about it.

 

[Punchshroom]

It is Slurpuff's sheer versatility that makes it a worthwhile threat. You don't know what the Slurpuff could be using when it first appears, so you already risk sending the Pokemon with the wrong kind of defense to face it (Steelix and Weezing can lose to CM, Muk loses to Belly Drum). Heck, Vileplume can lose to both, and it is supposed to be one of the premier defensive Poison-types of the tier :/. Then there is its movepool: Substitute and Rest are good ways for it to evade status (aka Thunder Wave, which has a very real chance to allow Slurpuff to break through Probopass by itself), while its special coverage which includes Flamethrower, Surf, and Psychic means that you aren't really safe from Slurpuff unless you run only a handful of universal counters. Some of its bulkier counters can even find themselves on the losing end against something like Calm Mind + Cotton Guard Slurpuff, or simply CM ChestoRest Puff. Its typing also relieves some huge burdens off offensive teams, which can struggle with the likes of Spiritomb and Gurdurr, and few offensive Pokemon in the tier can effectively fend off both of them.

Hollywood, you claim that Slurpuff can be brought down with priority, but its manageable bulk means this is actually pretty damn difficult to do without weakening it prior (this includes Belly Drum). CB Hariyama only manages 50-60% against 4 HP Puff, and it's not too out of the question that offensive Puffs consider running more HP. Now what does that say about every other priority in the tier? Pretty much none of them even come close to doing half to Slurpuff (Silk Scarf Adamant Kanga does a mere 25-30% with Fake Out), not to mention Slurpuff's incredibly valuable Sucker Punch resistance, which makes it very hard for me to believe that Slurpuff can simply be 'handled by priority'.

Eviolite Haunter is a cute check, though it's not fantastic by any means. It needs a decent amount of defensive investment in order to survive a +6 Play Rough.

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 88 Def Eviolite Haunter: 246-291 (83.6 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Ditching Haunter's offensive prowess =/= decent defensive investment.

My general strategy against Slurpuff is to hit it once it has come out and then finish it off later with a priority user or fast Choice Scarf Pokemon. All base 100+ Speed Scarf Pokemon outspeed Unburden-boosted Slurpuff unless it is running a +Speed nature, in which case it misses out on tons of kills.

It sounds like you had to sac your setup fodder in order to revenge it, which already seems like a noteworthy threat. Like, what if Slurpuff catches that mon which you still need to check something else with via double switch or something? I don't have to sac mons against setup mons like NP Mismagius, or even Feraligatr :/. Also, special Scarfers can run into complications against CM Slurpuff, which can boost out of their killing range and retaliate back at them. There aren't an abundance of competent/adequately fast physical Scarfers for the job, either.

It really hasn't been this huge terror for me to face. I've both used and played against Slurpuff a good amount, and I've been really unimpressed with how it has performed. But that might just be because of my playstyle because few people seem to agree with me about it.

Basically my experience with Mismagius in a nutshell, and Mismagius the "A- threat" can hardly contribute defensively like Slurpuff can :I