np: XY UU Stage 2 - Light Em Up

[alexwolf]

One thing to note is that alongside Togekiss, UU will be getting Diancie, a very good check to Togekiss that can deal with most sets except from Nasty Plot + Heal Bell, which has its own share of problems with Pokemon such as Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Ampharos, Mega Aggron, and Jirachi in the tier. Toxic + Diamond Storm allow Diancie to threaten Togekiss both immediately and in the long run (so that Kiss can't just stall out Storm's low PPs with Roost) and Diancie seems viable in general as a good check to Dragon-, Flying-, Fire, and Dark-types, such as Mega Ampharos, Crobat, Hydreigon, Victini, Mega Absol, Chandelure, Tornadus, Entei, Darmanitan, Honchkrow, Mega Houndoom, Yanmega, Porygon Z, and Noivern.

 

[Sage]

I'm very interested to see Diancie, it seems like a good pivot for Bulky Offensive teams. Also Paraflinch isn't even Rachi's best set right now, it's probably Sub Toxic. It's just that shit movepool that worries me, it doesn't get Play Rough or Power Gem, which stinks, but it really only needs Diamond Storm, Toxic, Rocks, filler. Shame it doesn't have reliable recovery. It could also prboably do a decent CroDiancie set with RestTalk Calm Mind and Moonblast, but that's about it. Hopefully move tutors in ORAS will give it something else, it has no coverage and no physical Fairy or special Rock options.

 

[RotomPoison]

One thing to note is that alongside Togekiss, UU will be getting Diancie, a very good check to Togekiss that can deal with most sets except from Nasty Plot + Heal Bell, which has its own shares of problems with Pokemon such as Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Ampharos, Mega Aggron, and Jirachi in the tier. Toxic + Diamond Storm allow Diancie to threaten Togekiss both immediately and in the long run (so that Kiss can't just stall out Storm's low PPs with Roost) and Diancie seems viable in general as a good check to Dragon-, Flying-, Fire, and Dark-types, such as Mega Ampharos, Crobat, Hydreigon, Victini, Mega Absol, Chandelure, Tornadus, Entei, Darmanitan, Honchkrow, Mega Houndoom, Yanmega, Porygon Z, and Noivern.

Yes but Diancie lacks recovery so it can easily be overwhelmed by a combination of those, and many teams have multiple Pokemon on that list forcing secondary checks to all of them. It can set up Stealth Rock but not much else as it will constantly be forced out by many Pokemons coverage moves (the occasional Iron Tail Hydreigon meaning it is not a reliable counter to it comes to mind)

Togekiss is a Pokemon who is a bit hard to theorymon on whether or not it is broken, so I'll just see what happens with the council's decision. Diancie won't be anywhere near gamebreaking and probably won't even be good

Edit: oh yeah it gets Trick Room, and CroDiancie(please come up with a better name) might be kind of useful, but not that good

 

[alexwolf]

Yes but Diancie lacks recovery so it can easily be overwhelmed by a combination of those, and many teams have multiple Pokemon on that list forcing secondary checks to all of them. It can set up Stealth Rock but not much else as it will constantly be forced out by many Pokemons coverage moves (the occasional Iron Tail Hydreigon meaning it is not a reliable counter to it comes to mind)

Togekiss is a Pokemon who is a bit hard to theorymon on whether or not it is broken, so I'll just see what happens with the council's decision. Diancie won't be anywhere near gamebreaking and probably won't even be good

Edit: oh yeah it gets Trick Room, and CroDiancie(please come up with a better name) might be kind of useful, but not that good

A lot of Pokemon that lack recovery are easy to overload, such as Swampert, Nidoqueen, Mega Aggron, and Empoleon, but this doesn't prevent them from being really useful for dealing with the Pokemon they check. All teams need secondary checks to great Pokemon such as Mega Aero, Victini, and Mega Amphy anyway, so it's not a big deal. The biggest problem of Diancie as a bulky SR setter and tank in general is that it can't do shit to Steel-types, so it's very easy to take advantage of.

 

[RotomPoison]

A lot of Pokemon that lack recovery are easy to overload, such as Swampert, Nidoqueen, Mega Aggron, and Empoleon, but this doesn't prevent them from being really useful for dealing with the Pokemon they check. All teams need secondary checks to great Pokemon such as Mega Aero, Victini, and Mega Amphy anyway, so it's not a big deal. The biggest problem of Diancie as a bulky SR setter and tank in general is that it can't do shit to Steel-types, so it's very easy to take advantage of.

Yes but all of them have excellent traits other than Stealth Rock. Nidoqueen has excellent coverage and power or Toxic Spikes as well as a great typing that lets it wall Pokemon like Heracross. Swampert can phaze, can hit everything in the tier at least neutrally, and only has 1 relatively uncommon weakness. Mega Aggron has excellent synergy with most Wishpassers such as Florges/Aromatisse, as well as much better physical bulk than anything in the tier as well as Filter. Empoleon also gets Defog. While I get this is all theorymon, I'm not saying Diancie will be that bad, just not amazing

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Diancie will have a pretty nice niche at being an answer to most fire types in the tier though, Diamond Storm is pretty strong while it can setup rocks. It's not really the most useful, but I think it'll probably have a good shot in UU.

just wait for ORAS and Mega Diancie

 

[UU ALL DAY]

You say that now.

Then you get ParaFlinched until the end of days.

I'd rather enjoy it in UU as well, but we already have one annoying 60% flincher... Just imagine two.

I already deal with that with Rachi...and I dealt with it in 5th gen. There are ways to beat it :S

And as for the person who said how does Starmie pair up against Blissey and Haxarous...I'm saying it out of tradition. Starmie has been OU every generation prior to this, so it is kind of surprising that it is finally UU. Blissey and Hax have amazing stats that seem too powerful for UU, but yet here it is.

 

[Machi]

Diancie will have a pretty nice niche at being an answer to most fire types in the tier though, Diamond Storm is pretty strong while it can setup rocks. It's not really the most useful, but I think it'll probably have a good shot in UU.

just wait for ORAS and Mega Diancie

That and it is obvious that the tier definitely wants another fairy type, as it is such a rare typing. It certainly is more usable than Slurpuff, Carbink, Clefairy, or Wiggly -- by being able to set up SR while maintaining offensive pressure against fire types thanks to Diamond Storm and having very usable defense stat. Course its movepool could use more work but it is still usable as a bulky tank and a good switch in. Plus it is super adorable!

 

[DiscoDucky]

Though to be honest, Smeargle's drops means an increase in hazards and baton passing shenanigans, so shit like QDPass, Smash Pass, and GearPass will help break down some of the tougher threats coming into UU.

 

[Ununhexium]

You say that now.

Then you get ParaFlinched until the end of days.

I'd rather enjoy it in UU as well, but we already have one annoying 60% flincher... Just imagine two.

Its actually 57% factoring in accuracy

 

[President Shinra]

I dunno, I think Togekiss will be good once it drops. The argument for it being banned is sort of understandable, but it being broken on the level of Alakazite and Diggersby is certainly something I don't see happening.

Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[RyanKoopa]

Togekiss is kind of a wildcard. Could be broken could not be, it's really hard to tell at the moment. Togekiss has gotten some amazing buffs but it's also never been part of a UU metagame quite like this before.

 

[RowDog]

What I'd like to ask of kokoloko is that if it does come down to Togekiss (as nothing else dropping has potential to be broken) having a decision being made by the council on whether it is broken or not, that that will count as this round of testing for it so we don't need to test it again before the round 2 tests? (though you may have already been thinking about that)

 

[Ununhexium]

Back with the June drops, everyone compared the meta to DPP OU. When you look at the OU Viability Rankings (I'm looking @ the ones posted here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dpp-ou-viability-rankings-v2.3514029/page-2#post-5673189), all of the S rank is in XYUU, 1/5 A+, 3/4 A-, 3/7 B+, and 6/7 B-. Togekiss is situated at a C ranking. Thoughts?

My thought, it doesn't matter. This isn't DPP OU

 

[Aragorn the King]

Back with the June drops, everyone compared the meta to DPP OU. When you look at the OU Viability Rankings (I'm looking @ the ones posted here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dpp-ou-viability-rankings-v2.3514029/page-2#post-5673189), all of the S rank is in XYUU, 1/5 A+, 3/4 A-, 3/7 B+, and 6/7 B-. Togekiss is situated at a C ranking. Thoughts?

That's the ranking of leads. This is the ranking of actual Pokemon, and Togekiss is B-. However, with all of the changes since DPP, I don't really think there is a clear comparison between the two metagames.

 

[totoTavros]

oh, ok. That was rather odd. I assumed that it was correct, as it was the first result for dpp ou viability Sorry about that, deleting...

 

[Patrick1088]

I dunno, I think Togekiss will be good once it drops. The argument for it being banned is sort of understandable, but it being broken on the level of Alakazite and Diggersby is certainly something I don't see happening.

Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I dont think toge is definitely not broken on the same level as alakazite and diggersby. While it can paraflinch to death special walls, it sits at a base 80 speed which leaves it vulnerable to all kinds of powerful attackers before it can launch a t wave or body slam

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 260-307 (69.7 - 82.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

With no speed investment, it will be easily ohko by queen as well. Lets not forget that eleftric types cant be paralyzed now,leaving mega amphy and rotom h as good checks. Dassling gleam is barely doing 84% to bulky mega amph with 252 evs and modest nature, while tbold is a guanteed ohko with rocks.

With hera leaving the tier, the 4x fighting and bug resists isnt as useful while trading it in for a poison and steel weakness which the nidos are now UU top wallbreakers imo.

Paraflinch is annoying, but not broken in the lesst bit imo.

 

[President Shinra]

Patrick1088 that's pretty much what I was thinking, but I was just saying that there is an argument for banning it, given that it has the possibility to clean up teams with it's annoying Paraflinch + Roost nonsense, especially given that you can run several different spreads to reach different speed tiers. But yeah, I was saying that its paraflinch, while annoying and possibly broken, won't be as overcentralizing and just plain ridiculous as something like Alakazite.

From the looks of it, we made all the same points :)

 

[Patrick1088]

magnezone: BL to OU
togekiss: OU to UU
diancie: OU to UU
quagsire: OU to UU
vaporeon: OU to UU
smeargle: OU to UU

So we didnt lose hera or mew, but gained diancie, toge, espeon, quagsire, vaporeon and smeargle. That baton pass ban really forced them down!

Anyhoo! Im excited for espeon and to see how it does in UU. Will it compete with mega absol as a magic bounce user that doesnt use a mega slot? Not too sure since dark is a better STAB to abuse, but well see how it does with that juicy 110 speed and 130 sp atk!

 

[TM13IceBeam]

we lost heracross and mew. and slowbro too.

RIP to all my teams running mew

also wb vaporeon :)