Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[Numera]

This thread is designed to give players an accurate idea of what are the most viable Pokemon in the tier. Azu+Thundy>Keldeo+Lando+XZard>the rest of A+ is something we all seem to agree on, but the rankings don't reflect that so I'm totally cool with an S+ Rank to set the absolute titans of the game, Azumarill and Thundurus, apart fron the other S rank Pokemon.

 

[Albacore]

splitting S rank into two ranks would just complicate things imo, I mean I personally dont think keldeo is S rank, but because there arent that many pokes in S rank as it is, I dont mind him chilling there. There would need to be more than 3-4 mons to justify starting a whole new rank, I mean like I said S rank is already small enough as it is.

I really don't think quantity of Pokemon in a given rank is an issue. If 2 Pokemon dominate the metagame and are clearly above the rest, then they deserve their own rank. It's better to have disproportionate rankings than to flat-out lie about a Pokemon's viability.

 

[alexwolf]

This again? Come on guys, are you already bored of discussing actual changes and got into the ''split S rank'' discussion already? This is not happening, the rank consists of only 5 Pokemon and splitting it will only making the ranking process harder and less objective. So what if Thundurus is better than Landorus? What info does this give to a new player looking at the viability rankings? The difference in viability between Heatran and Landorus-T in A rank could also be argued to be big, and so could a dozen more of comparisons between Pokemon in the same rank, should we further divide all the sub-ranks too?

tl;dr Arguing about which Pokemon are the absolutely best from the best is pointless and is not happening.

 

[trc]

I was about to say that's stupid, the only Pokemon that could possible drop from S is Charizard and maybe Keldeo, there is no way that Landorus is A+ and I know CBB agrees with me. Furthermore, I don't know why Jukain keeps saying that Azumarill is the most dominant Pokemon all the time (like on IRC), when Thundurus is far above it in the metagame.

 

[alexwolf]

In general, arguing about which Pokemon is the best from the best is pretty fucking subjective and doesn't make for a good discussion as you can find tons of people with different opinions, whereas you can agree much easier about just the best Pokemon, making the current system more meaningful for the purpose of this thread. Do we really want nitpicking over so minor things instead of doing something more constructive?

 

[Karxrida]

Agreeing with alexwolf on this; we don't need any rank inflation when there are only 5 S-Ranks.

Also, just because Keldeo could drop from S-Rank doesn't mean Zard X will. Zard X is extremely versatile while Keldeo has only 1 set people really use (Specs) and is more reliant on prediction.

 

[yoloburn]

Zard X is still the best DDer in the tier. After an SD, only Heatran walls it if not running EQ. After TW, it's an incredibly powerful revenge killer. The things Zard X does, he's really fucking good at them.

Keldeo is super spammable. Press Scald and cripple the switch in with a burn. Physical attackers don't like switching in and it can run coverage for grass, dragon/ground, or water types with Hidden Power depending on what your team needs. And Hydro Pump is kind of a nuke if nothing resists it. Best choice specs user by far.

What is Lando best at? MMedi, MGarde, and MHera are easily all better wallbreakers. It can use knock off, so does a ton of other pokemons. It can use stealth rock, tons others do it better. It's pretty versatile, fine, but so is Clefable. But at least Clefable needs specific checks, steel attacks aren't exactly common. Lando's weaknesses are everywhere. It's not strong enough to clean up after a RP or fast enough to sweep after a CM. I never think to myself "oh I need to check Landorus" when teambuilding because it just happens so naturally the way the meta is right now.

It's really just an A+ pokemon.

 

[Red Cat]

What is Lando best at? MMedi, MGarde, and MHera are easily all better wallbreakers. It can use knock off, so does a ton of other pokemons. It can use stealth rock, tons others do it better. It's pretty versatile, fine, but so is Clefable. But at least Clefable needs specific checks, steel attacks aren't exactly common. Lando's weaknesses are everywhere. It's not strong enough to clean up after a RP or fast enough to sweep after a CM. I never think to myself "oh I need to check Landorus" when teambuilding because it just happens so naturally the way the meta is right now.

All of these wallbreakers are not that difficult to check because of their mediocre speed. They are good because they are extremely difficult to counter. Landorus has the benefit of not taking up your mega slot and being faster than the base 100 speed tier. Landorus also has the capability of using Rock Polish to help against faster teams which the other wallbreakers cannot do. I think Landorus should stay in S for these reasons.

 

[Gloating]

Agree that Landorus-I is simply not S in the current meta. I can understand all the arguments for S but it's most powerful move can't even be spammed because of Flying types and Latios/Latias everywhere so you have to predict the Latios or Flying type coming in correctly and if you don't you will find yourself in a bad position and then Excadrill and Heatran commonly use Air Balloon as well. Stealth Rock Lando-I isn't even good, It's just a nice option if you can't fit it on anything else on the team but it usually aches that moveslot for a coverage move or Knock Off/Rock Polish or whatever. There are way better stall breakers as well not that Landorus-I is a good one anyway because tons of things have Knock Off too. Landorus-I is A+ to me at the moment.

 

[Celticpride]

Modest RP Landorus-I is very strong with Sheer Force and Life Orb. 101 speed tier is just fast enough to creep past a very common speed tier. Also, using Lando-I allows you to use your one Mega slot on something else that fills another hole, either a bulky DDer or one of the three fast and furious Megas. I could see it moving down or staying where it is.

Edit: kinda ninja'd by Red Cat

 

[Gloating]

Going off the topic from Landorus (Which alexwolf will have the brain to remove to A) Lets talk about Breloom.

Breloom: A- ----> B+/B
Yes, Breloom is great, it can Spore shit! Thats literally the only thing it does now. It has gotten weak to many popular OU mons: most notably Char X, and things that wall Spore like Ferrothorn will force a switch out. Also things like Mega Aerodactyl KO it with Aerial Ace. And yes, I know about Sash. You CAN easily run hazards if thats a necessity, other than that you can use Overcoat pokemons and Grass types to make it immune to Spore.

Put this thing down like a dog.

If anything Breloom has got even better with the absence of Aegislash and Mega Mawile. Sash Loom is a pain to deal with for HO. Sometimes I use Icicle Spear Jolly Mamoswine or Mega Heracross on my HO teams just to not get wrecked by it. Keep Breloom in A. It can also run SD with LO and Toxic Orb/Leech Seed sets. All of it's sets are pretty effective.

 

[Prinz]

Charizard-X is extremely versatile, it has ton of very good sets as the Sword Dance + Tailwind, Wisp one, DD + Roost, Roost + 3 attacks, DD + 3 attacks, it has a good typing as well since being immune to Wisp is huge for it, a good bulkyness for a sweeper, a wonderful ability with its already good statistic of attack and a passable speed considering Charizard can boost it with Dragon Dance. We all agree that it needs support since Stealth Rock hurts it badly, especially if it isn't mega evolved yet (otherwise 25% isn't that huge, I mean Thundurus is still in S rank even if it takes 25% from Stealth Rock every time it switches in) but Defog support isn't a big deal, and you can fit a Defog or a Rapid Spin user in almost any team. Latios, Latias and Excadrill are all good pokèmon. In summary, Charizard-X is an hell of pokèmon, being both versatile and really threatening for every team it faces, and while it does need support, that support is given by pokèmons that are pretty good themselves, therefore it completely deserves the S rank.

 

[Synchronation]

This again? Come on guys, are you already bored of discussing actual changes and got into the ''split S rank'' discussion already? This is not happening, the rank consists of only 5 Pokemon and splitting it will only making the ranking process harder and less objective. So what if Thundurus is better than Landorus? What info does this give to a new player looking at the viability rankings? The difference in viability between Heatran and Landorus-T in A rank could also be argued to be big, and so could a dozen more of comparisons between Pokemon in the same rank, should we further divide all the sub-ranks too?

tl;dr Arguing about which Pokemon are the absolutely best from the best is pointless and is not happening.

Under normal circumstances I would totally agree with you, there is no need for an S- -Rank.
The point is that plenty of people argued how Keldeo (especially Keldeo) should finally drop back to A+ again. There are plenty of arguments and plenty of people who are agreeing with this, but it is STILL in S-Rank, without any explanation why it didn't drop. I know the arguments against that, but why do they outweigh all the pro-drop posts?
An S- -Rank would finally end these debates about Keldeo. I don't agree with dropping CharX and Landorus, but I wouldn't mind them being in a rank between S and A+.

Final words: If Keldeo is not going to drop and I doubt there are new and more arguments which support it, I suggest to put it in the "Conclusion Reached"-section. This would end these debates too.

 

[alexwolf]

Under normal circumstances I would totally agree with you, there is no need for an S- -Rank.
The point is that plenty of people argued how Keldeo (especially Keldeo) should finally drop back to A+ again. There are plenty of arguments and plenty of people who are agreeing with this, but it is STILL in S-Rank, without any explanation why it didn't drop. I know the arguments against that, but why do they outweigh all the pro-drop posts?
An S- -Rank would finally end these debates about Keldeo. I don't agree with dropping CharX and Landorus, but I wouldn't mind them being in a rank between S and A+.

Final words: If Keldeo is not going to drop and I doubt there are new and more arguments which support it, I suggest to put it in the "Conclusion Reached"-section. This would end these debates too.

The arguments in favor of it have already been posted, and the metagame is still changing, which is why i haven't put Keldeo in the conclusion reached list. Popularity means nothing on itself, so saying that Keldeo is still in S rank even though a lot of people don't want this doesn't really mean much. Keldeo is a very controversial Pokemon to rank, we get it, so just respect the choice of the ranking council instead of talking about it constantly. When we feel that the arguments about dropping it are good enough we will.

 

[Jukain]

why azumarill is the best pokemon in the metagame

trc has been bugging me about this so i decided to post something. thundurus was the best pokemon in the tier in a heavy offense-oriented metagame, and for good reason. it was the best check to all the sweepers, and with its great natural speed/power/coverage matched up really well against these offensive teams, plus with the right set could put a lot of pressure on stall teams and in general be such a menace. however, the shift to a bulky offense/balanced-oriented meta as a result of the deo, aegislash, and mawile bans as well as trends like scarf landot and 96+ calm clefable have caused it to shift from its complete and utter dominance. it does not fit as well onto many of these bulky offense and balanced teams, while azumarill does. azumarill is just such a threat, and fits so easily into teams. av azumarill beats all of the s and a+ ranks besides ferrothorn, mega venusaur, and max def clefable 1v1, and is such an enormous and constricting force in teambuilding in the tier. every single non-mega venusaur offensive team is azumarill weak, there simply aren't that many viable answers to it. it pulls so much weight every battle, typically gets a kill if not more than that, providing so much offensive and defensive utility in one package. that's not even mentioning the threat of belly drum azumarill, which forces a lot of plays due to the mere possibility of its existence, as it can sweep teams with certain things weakened in a heartbeat. to top it all off, azumarill requires pretty much no support at all to fit onto a team. azumarill's dominance in the metagame is enormous, and i think it is more than safe to call it the best pokemon in the tier.

i want to challenge mega charizard x's position in s rank, the explanation to keep it in the first place was questionable at best in the face of numerous pro-drop posts.

Charizard-X is extremely versatile, it has ton of very good sets as the Sword Dance + Tailwind, Wisp one, DD + Roost, Roost + 3 attacks, DD + 3 attacks, it has a good typing as well since being immune to Wisp is huge for it, a good bulkyness for a sweeper, a wonderful ability with its already good statistic of attack and a passable speed considering Charizard can boost it with Dragon Dance. We all agree that it needs support since Stealth Rock hurts it badly, especially if it isn't mega evolved yet (otherwise 25% isn't that huge, I mean Thundurus is still in S rank even if it takes 25% from Stealth Rock every time it switches in) but Defog support isn't a big deal, and you can fit a Defog or a Rapid Spin user in almost any team. Latios, Latias and Excadrill are all good pokèmon. In summary, Charizard-X is an hell of pokèmon, being both versatile and really threatening for every team it faces, and while it does need support, that support is given by pokèmons that are pretty good themselves, therefore it completely deserves the S rank.

mega charizard x's versatility is vastly overstated. dd + 3 attacks mega charizard x is mediocre, nobody really uses it yet it's brought up time and time again for whatever reason. the lack of roost is such a severe hit to mega charizard x's survivability and propensity to set up and successfully sweep that it's not worth hitting one pokemon pretty much (heatran) at all, a pokemon that really isn't that difficult to bypass via other means. sd + tailwind is really only used/good on dual screens teams because it is so easy to revenge kill once it's locked into outrage and in general is more difficult to set up to actually sweep unless it has the extra bulk from the screens. roost + 3 attacks and dd + roost basically change one counter (heatran), and besides that can generally be handled in the same way, despite being played a bit differently. dd zard x will rarely sweep a competent team, what with the popularity of sand (ttar and hippo are both good checks btw AND exca rks), scarf/defensive landt, azumarill, heatran, sash terrakion, thundurus, and other checks/counters/revenge killers that find their way onto pretty much every ou team; i rarely find it one of those things i have to specifically account for, as it's usually covered through the inclusion of these pokemon, many of which are top-tier. wisp is obv good and according to many zard x's best set, you lure and check/cripple some different threats and can put lots of pressure on teams, but it can often be a liability for defensive teams due to its weakness to stealth rock and how limited it is if you cannot keep the hazard off the field, plus pretty much every team has different ways of playing around it/busting through it.

mega charizard x is a pokemon that requires significant support to perform its role. it heavily differs from the other s ranks - azumarill, keldeo, thundurus, and landorus - in this aspect, as it is nowhere near as easily splashable as these pokemon. its sets aren't really that difficult to detect by the team, and it's not like it's hard to scout if it's an offensive variant or a wisp variant if you play decently well. at this stage in the metagame, it isn't fitting of the s rank.

 

[alexwolf]

trc has been bugging me about this so i decided to post something. thundurus was the best pokemon in the tier in a heavy offense-oriented metagame, and for good reason. it was the best check to all the sweepers, and with its great natural speed/power/coverage matched up really well against these offensive teams, plus with the right set could put a lot of pressure on stall teams and in general be such a menace. however, the shift to a bulky offense/balanced-oriented meta as a result of the deo, aegislash, and mawile bans as well as trends like scarf landot and 96+ calm clefable have caused it to shift from its complete and utter dominance. it does not fit as well onto many of these bulky offense and balanced teams, while azumarill does. azumarill is just such a threat, and fits so easily into teams. av azumarill beats all of the s and a+ ranks besides ferrothorn, mega venusaur, and max def clefable 1v1, and is such an enormous and constricting force in teambuilding in the tier. every single non-mega venusaur offensive team is azumarill weak, there simply aren't that many viable answers to it. it pulls so much weight every battle, typically gets a kill if not more than that, providing so much offensive and defensive utility in one package. that's not even mentioning the threat of belly drum azumarill, which forces a lot of plays due to the mere possibility of its existence, as it can sweep teams with certain things weakened in a heartbeat. to top it all off, azumarill requires pretty much no support at all to fit onto a team. azumarill's dominance in the metagame is enormous, and i think it is more than safe to call it the best pokemon in the tier.

Azumarill not having many viable answers is not true, with Mega Scizor, Amoonguss, Slowbro, Rotom-W, Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Alomomola, and Suicune all being good answers to Azumarill's best sets, Choice Band and Assault Vest. Yes BD is a threat but any good player can recognize its existence if it doesn't pop up in the early game to wreck some shit, which is what AV and CB are supposed to be doing. So it's not such a big surprise, just a decent late-game cleaner that can be checked by multiple offensive Pokemon, such as Latios, Latias, HP Electric Keldeo, Mega Venusaur, Rotom-W, Energy Ball Manaphy, and Kyurem-B.

I don't disagree with Azumarill's usefulness in OU, which is why i put it in S rank in the first place, but you are exaggerating how difficult it is to deal with.

And i would suggest you guys discuss a different topic other than the S ranks, the back and forth every second day is kinda tiring. All those have been discussed to death in the past weeks and even though the metagame has changed a bit, it hasn't changed to the point where we should having big debates about their ranks take place again. Wait a few weeks and then we can revisit them, but let's focus on more questionable rankings, especially in the lower tiers.

 

[SaberSeven]

I'm gonna try nominating Klefki to move from C+ to B-. With Deoxys-Defense LONG out of the tier, Klefki has pretty much become one of the best Spikers (if not the best) in the tier. Klefki also has access to a solid plethora of support moves such as Thunder Wave, Toxic, Fairy Lock, and Dual Screens that get priority from its ability Prankster. With Thunder Wave, Klefki can prevent powerful sweepers such as Keldeo, Mega Medicham, Mega Gardevoir, etc. from becoming too problematic. Toxic can be used on Klefki if there's an annoying wall such as Mandibuzz or Slowbro to be dealt with. With Dual Screens & Light Clay, Klefki can have a sweeper like Belly Drum Azumarill come in and start leaving a dent in the opponent's team while said sweeper takes less damage than it normally would (http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-159749317 Example). Fairy Lock is a very interesting option for Klefki as when Klefki is about to faint, it can use that move and have either A: Have a revenge killer such as Terrakion come in and revenge kill it or B: use the trapped Pokemon as set up bait. Klefki also has access to moves like Foul Play which hurts physical attackers and Play Rough which 2HKOs Latios to prevent it from becoming pure Taunt bait. However, Klefki is hindered by its less than ideal bulk. 91/87 defenses are pretty good, but coupled with Base 57 HP, the bulk could be better. Also, although Steel/Fairy is great defensive typing, it's weak to 2 common attacking types in the tier (Fire and Ground). Despite its downsides, Klefki, has great potential as a supporting Pokemon which is why I feel that it deserves a B- ranking.

 

[Karxrida]

I suggest that Zard X be put into the "Conclusion Reached" category. It might not be the "best" S-Rank, but it is definitely the most versatile and still better than everything else in A+.

 

[Nog]

Pokémon are really only placed there when responses become stupid, ignorant or trolly. The discussion isn't any of these and both sides are making fine cases, just the S rank side is winning atm. No need to put Charizard in the conclusion reached section.

 

[Prinz]

I agree that Klefki is an underrated mon, Spikes, Reflect and Light Screen with Prankster is really good, especially if you have a respectable overall bulk and a good typing. I can definitely see it rising, even if I would like to read more opinions about it.

 

[AM]

Here is the next batch of Pokemon to discuss:

Chansey: A- ---> B+
Skarmory: A- ---> B+
Slowbro: A- ---> A
Manaphy: B+ ---> A-
Mega Aerodactyl: B+ ---> A-
Mega Alakazam: B+ ---> A-
Crawdaunt: C+ ---> B-
Hydreigon: C+ ---> C
Cresselia: C+ ---> B-
Thundurus-T: C+ ---> C
Jellicent: Unranked ---> D / C-

Once again for reference point on the stuff I know. I got some thoughts on Klefki as well so I'll post those as well.

Actual relevant post related to rank discussion

Chansey A- to B+ Pretty much has been stated by other. Passive as hell in a meta game where passiveness is not taken kindly, too many new relevant threats that completely don't care or screw it over. It's still a good mon in terms of clerics but it's not as useful anymore and I prefer to have my wish passers/clerics now to have some decent offensive presence or a better typing to handle the relevant stuff.

Skarmory A- to B+ Its limitations in terms of what it does on a consistent basis is less appreciated due to how the meta game is now. Magnezone's relevance now is a big problem for Skarmory when a lot of teams now run it with everything Skarmory would've normally checked before more consistently. Too much offense for Skarmory to actually keep up. B+ is fine.

Slowbro A- to A This thing is good, and I mean really good. It's only true limitation is its special defense and only a handful of wall breakers or specially strong mons such as M-Heracross, M-Gardevoi, Thundurus, the usual shit. After that it's just a bunch of useful pros. Versatility in terms of movepool of what it chooses to handle more efficiently, a nice sexy defense stat, Regenerator, some decent offensive presence, great glue in defensive or balanced cores, etc. If it wasn't for everyone spamming the same old op stuff I would see this up in A+, but unfortunately that isn't the case, A is definitely good.

Manaphy Keep at B+ I love Manaphy but I feel the metagame is too offensive for it to warrant a move up to A-. Needs a bit of support in a similar way to all the B+ mons but still solid. Haven't been able to test out TailDance though so I'm not necessarily sure if that's enough to push it to A-.

M-Alakazam Whatever The Holy Ranking Council Wants I've used this a lot and I think it's really kickass, I still think it's a B+ mon but w/e. We give out opinions, like 4 or so people use those to add on to their own logic, and ta da you have your rankings and then the circle of VR thread life continues. *Insert Circle Of Life song here*.

M-Aerodactyl B+ I've only seen a couple of good people use this well and that was more based on their own skill level than M-Aeros actual viability. I don't think it's viable at the level of A- personally, it just seems like people want it to move up cause it has a couple useful tools when it practices it kind of just dies and is overrated. That's just me though.

Cresselia B- Cresselia is underrated. Walls a lot of of stuff consistently like M-Cham, has a nice move pool to back it up, not bad at all and better than half the stuff in B-. I'll be honest though I think the B rank is a bit of a mess in the mid to lower area. I don't really know how you guys, alexwolf included, go about deciding what the discussion should be when you do your updates in terms of order. I would like to see some discussion on Scizor and some of the mid B rank stuff moving up or down, cause I think regular Scizor is a waste of team slot imo. Not now though just next update or w/e. Threads already clogged up with people wanting things like Lando-I to move down (lol) and just random stuff that makes no sense so I rather just wait till then to discuss it.

Thundurus-T C Thundurus Therian maintained it's C+ rank during a time where stall was a more relevant style of play in OU, in terms of consistency and what people generally used as a playstyle. Unfortunately, that time has passed and Thundy-Ts main niche as a stallbreaker, which I think it's all it's generally good for, is less appreciated these days. At this point Thundy-T on more serious team builds is generally an option similar to those if the C ranks, where they have some useful roles on a team, but require a generally decent amount of synergy and support to truly function.

Jellicent Unranked Jellicent is barely usable honestly, slow taunts are just dumb imo when they'll get the support move before you get the chance to taunt them, Will-O-Wisp is done by a lot better stuff like Sableye, doesn't really wall anything besides the obvious like Keldeo which shouldn't warrant a rank honestly. Spin blocker I guess but its roles are so niche individually and combined that there's not a huge point of running this unless you are desperate for an answer to keldeo, considering we got stuff like celebi and AV Azu you really shouldn't though.

Klefki C+ I had a lot of extensive use with this one on a HO team utilizing dual screen in the past with M-Ala and some other stuff. With that being said here's why I think it should stay in C+. It's outclassed by screens Azelf, a B- mon. Yes before somebody goes off and goes "But dude Prankster" that's great and all, but running Klefki means I have to use 2 mons to get Rocks up as well. It can't stall break, what so ever. The lack of Taunt is just crippling because it becomes free turns for a lot of stuff. Also I think spikes are only effective against stuff like balanced teams that have too many grounded mons. The issues with spikes in OU is that so many relevant threats in the metagame have no care for it, the Latis being one of the most used offensive defoggers doesn't help either. I see it as something like Shuckle in the C+ area where it has a good support role for its specific role, but that's really what it's limited to which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just not great.

 

[Bluwing]

Im going to nominate Weavile for A rank.

The reason why im nomating Weavile this high is because off the metagame changes. Theres a lot off pokemon becoming popular because off mega pinsir, mega gardevoir, mega heracross, mega zards and all thos mega spams. Weavile basically beats their checks, new common pokemon like slowbro, jirachi, mew, amoonguss, lati@s, landorus/landorus-t, thundurus, ferrothorn, heatran, magnezone etc. basically so much new stuff. It's so antimeta and it fits the meta so well as it has incredible offensive typing for ou as dark/ice is incredibe offensive coverage in ou, knock off is basically the best move in the game crippling any common switchin as av azumarill, clefable, skarmory, rotom-w, ferrothorn, keldeo, av conkeldurr etc. It just deals with so much defensive pokemon that stops other popular pokemon from sweeping and therefor fits extremely well with basically any setup sweeper, ofc weavile has it's cons as well because it's frail and has horrible defensive typing, but it's massive speed tier (outspeeding modest scarf heatran and max adamant mega gyara at +1) is just too good to overlook paired with it's amazing coverage. Therefore im nominating it for at least A tier because it is really good and it is going to be very common soon as the meta is changing towards it.

 

[Celticpride]

Im going to nominate Weavile for A rank.

The reason why im nomating Weavile this high is because off the metagame changes. Theres a lot off pokemon becoming popular because off mega pinsir, mega gardevoir, mega heracross, mega zards and all thos mega spams. Weavile basically beats their checks, new common pokemon like slowbro, jirachi, mew, amoonguss, lati@s, landorus/landorus-t, thundurus, ferrothorn, heatran, magnezone etc. basically so much new stuff. It's so antimeta and it fits the meta so well as it has incredible offensive typing for ou as dark/ice is incredibe offensive coverage in ou, knock off is basically the best move in the game crippling any common switchin as av azumarill, clefable, skarmory, rotom-w, ferrothorn, keldeo, av conkeldurr etc. It just deals with so much defensive pokemon that stops other popular pokemon from sweeping and there fits extremely well with basically any setup sweeper, ofc weavile has it's cons as well because it's frail has horrendous defensive typing, but it's massive speed tier (outspeeding modest scarf heatran and max adamant mega gyara at +1) is just too good to overlook paired with it's amazing coverage. Therefore im nominating it for at least A tier because it is really good and it is going to be very common soon as the meta is changing towards it.

Babysteps. I like Weavile a lot, but it's not touching A-Rank in any form unless Mega Weavile happens (please GameFreak, please). Most importantly, Weavile has very little in the way of dealing with Keldeo or Azumarill, two huge threats in the current meta.

I don't see Klefki moving up. Great defensive typing, Prankster Screens and a good Prankster movepool overall make it a solid option in this meta, although it wants Rocks badly and only gets Spikes. I think it is fine where it is. I did see a Klefki in a battle the other day that was not a lead, but a pivot that set-up screens by coming in on resisted hits and then switching. Interesting set idea, and maybe a niche it has over other screeners. Espeon and Azelf can't function that way due to crappier typing. I'm gonna test that set myself ASAP. Ultimately having Spikes over Rocks keeps it from moving up for me. Spikes are honestly useless.

 

[AM]

Im going to nominate Weavile for A rank.

The reason why im nomating Weavile this high is because off the metagame changes. Theres a lot off pokemon becoming popular because off mega pinsir, mega gardevoir, mega heracross, mega zards and all thos mega spams. Weavile basically beats their checks, new common pokemon like slowbro, jirachi, mew, amoonguss, lati@s, landorus/landorus-t, thundurus, ferrothorn, heatran, magnezone etc. basically so much new stuff. It's so antimeta and it fits the meta so well as it has incredible offensive typing for ou as dark/ice is incredibe offensive coverage in ou, knock off is basically the best move in the game crippling any common switchin as av azumarill, clefable, skarmory, rotom-w, ferrothorn, keldeo, av conkeldurr etc. It just deals with so much defensive pokemon that stops other popular pokemon from sweeping and therefor fits extremely well with basically any setup sweeper, ofc weavile has it's cons as well because it's frail and has horrible defensive typing, but it's massive speed tier (outspeeding modest scarf heatran and max adamant mega gyara at +1) is just too good to overlook paired with it's amazing coverage. Therefore im nominating it for at least A tier because it is really good and it is going to be very common soon as the meta is changing towards it.

A rank......is soooooo stupidly high for Weavile omg. You forgot to mention how obnoxiously frail it is and about every other con that justifies its current rank. Anti-meta =/= good btw so I have no idea how this logic came about. Half those things you mentioned it cripples with Knock Off don't give a single care in the universe about Weavile when it's more than likely losing to them anyways. Definitely no.

 

[Karxrida]

Im going to nominate Weavile for A rank.

The reason why im nomating Weavile this high is because off the metagame changes. Theres a lot off pokemon becoming popular because off mega pinsir, mega gardevoir, mega heracross, mega zards and all thos mega spams. Weavile basically beats their checks, new common pokemon like slowbro, jirachi, mew, amoonguss, lati@s, landorus/landorus-t, thundurus, ferrothorn, heatran, magnezone etc. basically so much new stuff. It's so antimeta and it fits the meta so well as it has incredible offensive typing for ou as dark/ice is incredibe offensive coverage in ou, knock off is basically the best move in the game crippling any common switchin as av azumarill, clefable, skarmory, rotom-w, ferrothorn, keldeo, av conkeldurr etc. It just deals with so much defensive pokemon that stops other popular pokemon from sweeping and therefor fits extremely well with basically any setup sweeper, ofc weavile has it's cons as well because it's frail and has horrible defensive typing, but it's massive speed tier (outspeeding modest scarf heatran and max adamant mega gyara at +1) is just too good to overlook paired with it's amazing coverage. Therefore im nominating it for at least A tier because it is really good and it is going to be very common soon as the meta is changing towards it.

Why use Weavile when you have Bisharp, who can actually switch into shit, hits harder, and doesn't get fucked over by the things it's Pursuit trapping if they decide to stay in? Or Mamoswine, who has one of the best STAB combos in existence and can lure out and kill Rotom-W? There's no way Weavile is as good as them, especially when it gives free switches for a ton of top tier threats like Azumarill, Keldeo, Zard X, and Clefable and needs literally every priority user dead before it can safely do its job.