Metagame np: Stage 2 - You Spin Me Round (Like a Shellfish)

[Annoyer]

kabutops doesnt even need knock off as +2 sedge is enough to finish it off +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Frillish: 308-364 (98 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

anyway, idgaf about tomb leaving; i never really found it to be much of a problem other than just "being there" (ik im understating but just my brusque way of putting it). omastar on the other hand im going to miss not really as the hazard setter as there are still crustle (and sash ferro xD) but moreso as a shell smash user as it's typing gave it an ample amount of setup opportunities and had the stats to sweep along with a nice ability in weak armor.

kabutops is definitely going to be an interesting pokemon as it gives nu both another offensive water type and spinner. although the introduction of kabutops may help fire-types in the form of spinning away hazards, it also harms them with another powerful aqua jet to shorten their sweeps so i assume kabutops will be a great check on offensive teams to the likes of magmortar, pyroar, typhlosion, and even ninetales. i doubt there will be huge shifts in the tier and i predict more or less the same of the prominence of bulky offense in the meta. there's still a lot of priority mons left to check rain teams that will probably be used a lot in the next couple of days. i can definitely see toad, poliwrath, and ferroseed rising to take on tops better (along with gatr) as it just gives another reason to use them.

validating soulgazer's camerupt set as it can be quite frustrating to have a solid check to fire types in the tier as it can shift momentum in the game really easily as they have to continually take hazards daamge or just keep getting walled (prediction/double switching also becomes a key part of this matchup). flareon's also another check with a worse typing but wish support to take on fire types that is better than expected tbh. both of these mons still allow your team to still have a fire type to force out the likes of ferroseed.

Jynx (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Lovely Kiss
- Ice Beam
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Focus Blast

now on the main point of this post, i think that Jynx (nigr) will be really good or at least a lot better with this upcoming tier shift. spiritomb was a pain in its ass with priority and trapping it as its best check and now it can check kabutops very well due to dry skin so aqua jet isnt an issue (along with feraligatr in previous metas). because the meta from what i see is made up of a lot of bulky cores like ferroseed+dragalge or vileplume+toad etc, i think life orb would probably be the best set (sash is still good as like a niche set and subnp is great for setting up). the rising mesprit (on the special side) is also checked surprisingly well by jynx as jynx can 2hko with ice beam and can live any one special attack. jynx will also be a great asset against (and on) rain teams due to dry skin again. with kabutops as a partner, hazards wont be as huge of an issue on jynxs side and kabutops also checks magmortar and other special walls that jynx might have trouble with.

 

[Brawlfest]

Since I hyped Tropius at the beginning of the last np thread, I think it's time to hype another unpopular set, even if this one is less unconventional.

Hariyama @ Leftovers | Thick Fat
252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD | Adamant Nature
Close Combat / Knock Off / Bullet Punch / Toxic

Hariyama is obviously quite popular, but every time I run into it on the ladder, it's using Assault Vest with Fake Out or Ice Punch and Guts. There are a few problems I have with Assault Vest Hariyama. One is that it doesn't have any form of recovery, which makes it pretty vulnerable to getting worn down throughout the match. Another is that Hariyama is a great switch into Knock Off, and I hate the idea of an Assault Vest being taken away. In fact, the reason why I have been using Leftovers Hariyama over Gurdurr so much lately is because it doesn't mind Knock Off at all. The last is that Gurdurr is a better user of Guts than Hariyama because it has Drain Punch for recovery.

Leftovers Hariyama solves a lot of these problems, and it doesn't restrict you to attacking moves. This gives you the opportunity to run Toxic, which nails a lot of common switches into Hariyama and helps wear them down throughout the match. Thick Fat is also really cool. Even though you lose out on a status absorber, you get a good switch into Fire-types and Freeze-Dry Cryogonal, which I swear is impossible for balanced teams to manage. This also helps with Hariyama's survivability because it gets to take on more types of attacks and doesn't lure passive damage from Guts statuses.

So this is a cool set. Try it out!

I've also tested RestoChesto to some success with Hariyama as it isn't as inconsistent as RestTalk variants, but gets the benefits that standard Yama's have with the bonus of great recovery once it gets worn down, as it will oftentimes be played aggressively as a pivot, and as a result Recovery helps.

 

[Expulso]

I've also tested RestoChesto to some success with Hariyama as it isn't as inconsistent as RestTalk variants, but gets the benefits that standard Yama's have with the bonus of great recovery once it gets worn down, as it will oftentimes be played aggressively as a pivot, and as a result Recovery helps.

The problem with ChestoRest sets is that Hairyama can't switch into Knock Off early-game for fear of losing its Chesto Berry, which inhibits it early on. A very creative set though!

 

[Deej Dy]

Looking forward to having substitute on most mons now with tomb gone ;). Also i think stall will be harder to achieve now with malamar running rampant.

 

[CanadianWifier]

Looking forward to having substitute on most mons now with tomb gone ;). Also i think stall will be harder to achieve now with malamar running rampant.

I don't think
a] Malamar will be that common, its still not that great.
b] Malamar being the reason stall takes a hit.

Stall took a hit because it's most brainless pokemon [besides Audino] just got sucked up to RU. It had an Aegislash-like defensive stranglehold on the tier, where its typing alone made dozens of things unusable/unviable. Stall also lost it's best spinblocker and priority user. There was seriously little to no reason not to throw this thing on your team, and now that it's gone, stall is having to adapt.
When it comes to stall teams facing new-found pressures, Malamar has something to do with this, but it's like 1% of the problem.

 

[Deej Dy]

Well malamar cant really be stopped by common stallers. First off it gets a free superpower (or 2 if the overpredict) if you switch in vs audino.
Second off Good luck hazing that thing with crygonal or stopping with tangela or statusing it with wisp (the rest talk set is best)
120 base power superpower and dark coverage is awesome and only fairy stop it.
Not saying it is A+ material, but I wouldn't underestimate it at all.
The main thing that separates malamar from the sword dancers like Gatr is that it has much more longevity and wearing it down can be a nightmare for stall teams once it gets +1 def and starts with max spc def.

 

[Shuckleking87]

Roselia @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Spikes
- Giga Drain / Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis

Surprisingly, every time I brought Roselia up in the NU room it received a lot of hate: a lot of people think Roselia is 100% outclassed by Vileplume, which is completely wrong. Being able to use Spikes and / or Toxic Spikes is big, which definitely gives it a niche over the good ol' Vileplume. I prefer a Physically Defensive spread on Roselia as it gives the little flower more opportunity to set up Spikes as it will now be able to set up Spikes more easily against physical attackers. I also like Hidden Power Fire on it to lure Ferroseed and not be set up fodder to Klinklang, but anything work. Another Pokemon that needs more love.
Raseri sux

I posted a team on the teambuilder thread that was centered around physically defensive roselia + Special defensive camerupt lol it was a great combo. I go with 16 ev's in Special Defense though to guarantee live a draco meteor from specs dragalge, but I really recommend using defensive roselia! It also has the benefit this gen to use spikes and sleep powder legally together, which I'm surprised is not used as often (I guess you want spikes/giga/2nd coverage/synthesis/tspikes/sleep powder)

 

[psVoltage]

kabutops doesnt even need knock off as +2 sedge is enough to finish it off +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Frillish: 308-364 (98 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

anyway, idgaf about tomb leaving; i never really found it to be much of a problem other than just "being there" (ik im understating but just my brusque way of putting it). omastar on the other hand im going to miss not really as the hazard setter as there are still crustle (and sash ferro xD) but moreso as a shell smash user as it's typing gave it an ample amount of setup opportunities and had the stats to sweep along with a nice ability in weak armor.

kabutops is definitely going to be an interesting pokemon as it gives nu both another offensive water type and spinner. although the introduction of kabutops may help fire-types in the form of spinning away hazards, it also harms them with another powerful aqua jet to shorten their sweeps so i assume kabutops will be a great check on offensive teams to the likes of magmortar, pyroar, typhlosion, and even ninetales. i doubt there will be huge shifts in the tier and i predict more or less the same of the prominence of bulky offense in the meta. there's still a lot of priority mons left to check rain teams that will probably be used a lot in the next couple of days. i can definitely see toad, poliwrath, and ferroseed rising to take on tops better (along with gatr) as it just gives another reason to use them.

validating soulgazer's camerupt set as it can be quite frustrating to have a solid check to fire types in the tier as it can shift momentum in the game really easily as they have to continually take hazards daamge or just keep getting walled (prediction/double switching also becomes a key part of this matchup). flareon's also another check with a worse typing but wish support to take on fire types that is better than expected tbh. both of these mons still allow your team to still have a fire type to force out the likes of ferroseed.

Jynx (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Lovely Kiss
- Ice Beam
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Focus Blast

now on the main point of this post, i think that Jynx (nigr) will be really good or at least a lot better with this upcoming tier shift. spiritomb was a pain in its ass with priority and trapping it as its best check and now it can check kabutops very well due to dry skin so aqua jet isnt an issue (along with feraligatr in previous metas). because the meta from what i see is made up of a lot of bulky cores like ferroseed+dragalge or vileplume+toad etc, i think life orb would probably be the best set (sash is still good as like a niche set and subnp is great for setting up). the rising mesprit (on the special side) is also checked surprisingly well by jynx as jynx can 2hko with ice beam and can live any one special attack. jynx will also be a great asset against (and on) rain teams due to dry skin again. with kabutops as a partner, hazards wont be as huge of an issue on jynxs side and kabutops also checks magmortar and other special walls that jynx might have trouble with.

Psychics in general got alot better with spiritomb gone as it was mostly what was stopping them, other then a couple of dark types with sucker punch. Uxie, and Mespirit come to mind but, now that you mention it jynx seems pretty awesome too. Have you considered a nasty plot set at all? It has that nice lovely kiss to bypass sucker punches, and sub can even be used to help with revenge killers/ status. Just an idea to try out :]

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Qwilfish is looking like it could be a decent Rain check... Poison Jab OHKO's Ludicolo and you outspeed if you run Swift Swim on Qwilfish. Offensive Seismitoad takes a ton from Explosion but Destiny Bond is also a thing... Toxic Spikes in general give Rain teams without their own Qwilfish trouble and Focus Sash is also pretty common to run. Taunt can also prevent Rain from being setup against the likes of Uxie and finally you could run T-Wave to stop a Kabutops sweep for example. Qwilfish can be helpful against Rain in numerous ways.

On a side note, Feraligatr in Rain is scary -_-

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Torrent Feraligatr Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mesprit in Rain: 347-409 (114.9 - 135.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I don't need to tell you what a +2 Torrent Life Orb boosted Waterfall in Rain does.

 

[Punchshroom]

On a side note, Feraligatr in Rain is scary -_-

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Torrent Feraligatr Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mesprit in Rain: 347-409 (114.9 - 135.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I don't need to tell you what a +2 Torrent Life Orb boosted Waterfall in Rain does.

Swords Dance Gatr would be very hesitant to run Life Orb (Mystic Water at best), since LO limits the amount of Torrent boosted turns it has and cuts its bulk in general. Feraligatr does benefit from the Rain, but shouldn't be used in a Rain team when Kabutops is available.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Swords Dance Gatr would be very hesitant to run Life Orb (Mystic Water at best), since LO limits the amount of Torrent boosted turns it has and cuts its bulk in general. Feraligatr does benefit from the Rain, but shouldn't be used in a Rain team when Kabutops is available.

Life Orb is relatively standard (along with Lum) regardless of Rain because the power difference is very noticable. The main reason Life Orb is good is because it gets you into Torrent faster or more reliably. If you go with Mystic Water you risk getting put just out of Torrent range and then there's nothing you can do about it, while with Life Orb you can still get there because of recoil damage. Feraligatr has good enough bulk to tank a hit if needed, set up an SD, get into Torrent range and sweep from there. You still have 3-4 hits in Torrent which is usually enough to clean up because of how powerful your attacks are.

Also, why not use both? Gatr can annihilate the likes of Ferroseed with +2 Superpower and wallbreaks like no other pokemon with Swords Dance, while Kabutops has the speed to clean up afterwards. You want to use the best of the best (which until further notice Feraligatr still is) so not using Feraligatr on Rain when it benefits so greatly from it would be kind of silly.

 

[Punchshroom]

Life Orb is relatively standard (along with Lum) regardless of Rain because the power difference is very noticable. The main reason Life Orb is good is because it gets you into Torrent faster or more reliably. If you go with Mystic Water you risk getting put just out of Torrent range and then there's nothing you can do about it, while with Life Orb you can still get there because of recoil damage. Feraligatr has good enough bulk to tank a hit if needed, set up an SD, get into Torrent range and sweep from there. You still have 3-4 hits in Torrent which is usually enough to clean up because of how powerful your attacks are.

Life Orb is not standard on Swords Dance Gatr (though it is on DD), since SD Gatr is more reliant on longevity than it is on immediate power. Mystic Water sees better use on SD Gatr as it receives a (usually sufficient) boost on its 2 main attacks without any cost. The biggest upside to not using Life Orb on SD Gatr is that it allows Gatr to throw out an unboosted attack or two mid game without potentially screwing up its chances to boost in the future, as LO cuts into its health no matter how little damage Gatr has dealt, and let's be honest we've all tossed Gatr in there to Aqua Jet shit a good amount of the time. DD Gatr is more 'go for broke'; once it boosts it usually aims for a clean sweep, and it likely won't be able to in the future anyway, which makes Life Orb a much better investment, especially when DD Gatr needs all its attacks to do good damage.

Also, why not use both? Gatr can annihilate the likes of Ferroseed with +2 Superpower and wallbreaks like no other pokemon with Swords Dance, while Kabutops has the speed to clean up afterwards. You want to use the best of the best (which until further notice Feraligatr still is) so not using Feraligatr on Rain when it benefits so greatly from it would be kind of silly.

Ahem Kabutops can do this too, especially in the Rain? It's not so much that Gatr is bad on Rain, rather there are greater options for Rain teams to have, and the competition for teamslots is fierce. Not to mention that Gatr does not offer any notable defensive advantage Rain teams don't already have, while even Qwilfish protects Rain teams from Toxic Spikes. While Gatr does benefit from Rain, other Pokemon benefit better from Rain: I can just as easily extend the benefits of Rain to things like Basculin, Seaking, and Simipour, yet they get eschewed in favor of Kabutops and Ludicolo because the latter two gain much more from Rain. Hell, if you really want a bulky Rain sweeper with a boosting move and Ferroseed coverage, Swift Swim Poliwrath can probably cover you with that, and can boost with either Bulk Up or Belly Drum.

 

[Aleccat]

Rain buffs and stall (debatable, personally i think they are, which means they are) buffs due to spiritomb gtfoing and kabutops dropping. I suggest Charm Bellossom or Vileplume because let's be real, kabutops is going to slaughter everything in its path so you have to be prepared just incase like anything happens because you never know. Also bellossom learns drain punch and that is important too.

 

[Roar of Noob]

Now as Tomb has gone, I hope this will get more love:

Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Seed Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

It can check every rapid spinner besides Cryogonal
It can even live two knock offs or one +2 Stone Edge from Kabutops if it needs to do so.

calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 177-208 (47.3 - 55.6%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 117-140 (31.2 - 37.4%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 266-316 (71.1 - 84.4%)

 

[atomicllamas]

Rain buffs and stall (debatable, personally i think they are, which means they are) buffs due to spiritomb gtfoing and kabutops dropping. I suggest Charm Bellossom or Vileplume because let's be real, kabutops is going to slaughter everything in its path so you have to be prepared just incase like anything happens because you never know. Also bellossom learns drain punch and that is important too.

Spiritomb leaving definitely hurts stall seeing as it could either be a great win con for stall or provide great utility. Also why run charm on those mons for Kabutops when you can just OHKO it with giga drain ?_? (same with drain punch).

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Aleccat you were never funny so stop

Qwilfish @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Swords Dance
- Poison Jab
- Destiny Bond / Explosion

Now that rain is becoming so common, I like using Qwilfish on rain because it's the fastest Swift Swimmer (barring Floatzel and Golduck?) in NU, or in other words, the fastest relevant one. This immediately gives me at least a decent matchup vs opposing rain especially with Qwilfish's good STABs to beat most common rain sweepers. As a bonus it absorbs Toxic Spikes which means I don't really have to run Rapid Spin on Kabutops, which gives a free move for Superpower / Knock Off / whatever. The last move is also real fun because it takes down troublesome stuff for teammates. Destiny Bond is less reliable but works on all opponents while Explosion deals reliable damage but doesn't always guarantee a KO. As for the nature, pretty much every rain sweeper runs Adamant or Modest so you can get away with running Adamant right now, but once the +Spe natures start picking up Qwilfish will have to make the switch too.

 

[Ares]

Aleccat you were never funny so stop

Qwilfish @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Swords Dance
- Poison Jab
- Destiny Bond / Explosion

Now that rain is becoming so common, I like using Qwilfish on rain because it's the fastest Swift Swimmer (barring Floatzel and Golduck?) in NU, or in other words, the fastest relevant one. This immediately gives me at least a decent matchup vs opposing rain especially with Qwilfish's good STABs to beat most common rain sweepers. As a bonus it absorbs Toxic Spikes which means I don't really have to run Rapid Spin on Kabutops, which gives a free move for Superpower / Knock Off / whatever. The last move is also real fun because it takes down troublesome stuff for teammates. Destiny Bond is less reliable but works on all opponents while Explosion deals reliable damage but doesn't always guarantee a KO. As for the nature, pretty much every rain sweeper runs Adamant or Modest so you can get away with running Adamant right now, but once the +Spe natures start picking up Qwilfish will have to make the switch too.

Damn it Scorp dont reveal Offensive Qwil to the ppl. I've been running this on a team and I gotta say I quite like offensive Qwilfish, only really struggles with Ferroseed, so you can run a trapper Probo to take that out. I ran it on a non-rain team so there were a couple of things I ran differently. I ran Black Sludge for increased longevity, I ran Poison Point for a chance to poison as I'm not running rain so I dont need the extra speed. It was a lot of fun to be running this set and it caught people off guard.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Damn it Scorp dont reveal Offensive Qwil to the ppl. I've been running this on a team and I gotta say I quite like offensive Qwilfish, only really struggles with Ferroseed, so you can run a trapper Probo to take that out. I ran it on a non-rain team so there were a couple of things I ran differently. I ran Black Sludge for increased longevity, I ran Poison Point for a chance to poison as I'm not running rain so I dont need the extra speed. It was a lot of fun to be running this set and it caught people off guard.

Even outside of rain I think Swift Swim is still a better option because Qwilfish is quite a decent weapon against rain teams on the chance you face one. Plus, you already have Poison Jab for the psn chance.

 

[Ares]

Even outside of rain I think Swift Swim is still a better option because Qwilfish is quite a decent weapon against rain teams on the chance you face one. Plus, you already have Poison Jab for the psn chance.

True, I just wasnt having a problem with Rain teams when I had Offensive Qwilfish in mind. And I generally used Waterfall for the added flinch chance unless it was resisted or P-Jab was SE. Just a personal preference, both depend on something happening and dont always benefit you in the game.

 

[Brawlfest]

Alright so Good Cores in NU has basically been closed by Scorp but I've two cores I really want to post so I'll drop them here. If scorpdestroyer could be a babe and add them to the OP of Good Cores that would be great anyways so #tagged.
GOOD CORES IN NU ISNT CLOSED still aint deleting this and reposting scorp

PeliRupt

Pelipper @ Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Air Slash / U-Turn / Knock Off / Toxic
- Roost
- Defog

Camerupt @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Lava Plume
- Earthquake
- Roar / Toxic
- Stealth Rock

This is easily the best defensive core literally ever. Both Pelipper and Camerupt are so underrated as NU pokemon that it isn't even funny. Both are freaking PU? Are you joking with me. They are easily are the most solid defensive core together. Pelipper has a beastly defensive stat and can check tons of NU's top physical threats head on, checking common pokemon such as Gurdurr or Seismitoad 1v1 consistently, tackling some of the tier's top threats. Camerupt on the other hand acts as an amazing specially defensive wall, stopping all electric and fire types such as Specs Typhlosion or Scarf Rotom that cause Pelipper grief, and together they easily can make a great defensive backbone for any defensive or bulky team in the tier.
____________________

ViviTops

Vivillon @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Sleep Powder
- Bug Buzz / Energy Ball
- Quiver Dance

Kabutops @ Lum Berry / Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Jet / Waterfall
- Rapid Spin
- Swords Dance

Nothing makes rain better than ViviTops. With or without rain, this core is a positive influence to any offensive team, and has amazing offensive synergy, and need very little support to function well. Vivillon destroys grass and fighting types that somewhat annoy Kabutops, while Kabutops easily runs through rock or fire types that can potentially beat Vivillon, as well as offer Vivillon Rapid Spin support. Together, they easily beat checks and counters through insane offensive pressure, and give the opponent little breathing room.

 

[Aleccat]

Aleccat you were never funny so stop

Qwilfish @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Swords Dance
- Poison Jab
- Destiny Bond / Explosion

Now that rain is becoming so common, I like using Qwilfish on rain because it's the fastest Swift Swimmer (barring Floatzel and Golduck?) in NU, or in other words, the fastest relevant one. This immediately gives me at least a decent matchup vs opposing rain especially with Qwilfish's good STABs to beat most common rain sweepers. As a bonus it absorbs Toxic Spikes which means I don't really have to run Rapid Spin on Kabutops, which gives a free move for Superpower / Knock Off / whatever. The last move is also real fun because it takes down troublesome stuff for teammates. Destiny Bond is less reliable but works on all opponents while Explosion deals reliable damage but doesn't always guarantee a KO. As for the nature, pretty much every rain sweeper runs Adamant or Modest so you can get away with running Adamant right now, but once the +Spe natures start picking up Qwilfish will have to make the switch too.

I'm not trying to be funny, I'm being real Bellossom can charm things then torture their lives with Giga Drain and Drain Punch you big bully (ras removed my post lel hater)

 

[Punchshroom]

I'm not trying to be funny, I'm being real Bellossom can charm things then torture their lives with Giga Drain and Drain Punch you big bully (ras removed my post lel hater)

Why would you ever bother Charming things when:
a) the physical threat in question will take you out faster before you survive the second or even first hit, since Bellossom is goddamn slow
b) you'd be better off actually attacking things (like SD Kabutops which will kill you if you don't attack it, +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bellossom: 320-376 (90.3 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO)
c) most answers to Bellossom are special attackers

 

[CanadianWifier]

Vivillon @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Sleep Powder
- Bug Buzz / Energy Ball
- Quiver Dance

Please don't run these on Vivvy :[
Substitute with Leftovers is one option that helps it avoid being revenge killed immediately, or Hidden Power Ground allows it to beat Probopass and other steel- or rock-type shit that it otherwise has trouble with. Seriously Bug Buzz is the most useless coverage ever, and Energy Ball is really just for Rhydon / Seis?

 

[Brawlfest]

Please don't run these on Vivvy :[
Substitute with Leftovers is one option that helps it avoid being revenge killed immediately, or Hidden Power Ground allows it to beat Probopass and other steel- or rock-type shit that it otherwise has trouble with. Seriously Bug Buzz is the most useless coverage ever, and Energy Ball is really just for Rhydon / Seis?

Energy Ball is the only thing I run anymore. HP Ground doesn't do jack shit to steels anyways, and you ahve Hurricane to smash Fire Types. I would much rather have EBall for Donner and other rock types such as Kabutops or Costa.

 

[CanadianWifier]

Energy Ball is the only thing I run anymore. HP Ground doesn't do jack shit to steels anyways, and you ahve Hurricane to smash Fire Types. I would much rather have EBall for Donner and other rock types such as Kabutops or Costa.

fair enough, energy ball for don I can understand. But pls don't mention Bug Buzz - people might actually run it :(