Serious LGBTQ

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The letters in the acronym mean multiple things; I've heard "Queer" and "Questioning" for "Q," and "A" was for both Allies and Asexual, etc. It's meant to make it more inclusive without making it even more bulky than it already is.
 
Including allies is ridiculous although people try to do it for god knows what reason. Shiruba is right about the Q though. I also see GSM now (gender/sexual minorities), sometimes with an R to include romantic for romantic orientation.
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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GSM is the acronym we need but not the acronym we deserve. QuILTBAG is cool too, I guess, because it at least sounds fun :)

Why is GSM better, you ask? Well, it avoids the arguments sparked by whether a group is being inclusive enough. LGBT? Not inclusive enough of Q. Maybe even 2 Qs for both Queer and Questioning. LGBTQ? How dare you forget IA? Heck, you could even include Pansexual... or 2 Spirit...

I mean really, which is a more usable all-encompassing term? GSM or LGBTQQIP2SAA? This mess is so impractical that people already often just write LGBTQ+.
 

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
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ppl being unsure about what q is might lead one to conclude that often people don't actually mean q, or the t..., when they speak about LGBTQ issues.

in regards to 'gsm', it may be cis-people that are the 'minority'
 

Crux

Banned deucer.
I've seen DSG (Diverse sex and gender) used a lot in Sydney lately. Regardless, I think that we should be careful of being more inclusive as a movement because the needs and interests of each group identified are extremely different and often contradictory, and as such disapprove of all such terms.
 
We should just write the entire alphabet and take it over just like we did with rainbows, that way its impossible to forget anyone!
 

dwarfstar

mindless philosopher
We should just write the entire alphabet and take it over just like we did with rainbows, that way its impossible to forget anyone!
Barring the πsexuals.

On a serious note, I'm kinda partial to GSM myself, although I do like the sound of DSG (that one's new to me). I've had this conversation with some friends of mine and we haven't been able to come up with a clear answer as to what we think is best. Thanks for bringing it to our attention, Crux.
 
Tbh I don't want an acronym. I just wish we could be able to say "I like dudes" "I like girls" "I am a man" or "I am a woman", or anything else applicable. The fact that we need an acronym is a sign that we are somehow "different" and not a part of the average society, which kind of disgusts me.

I believe we shouldn't use any acronym, because sexuality and gender are two different things, and to make a label for a group is, even if using neutral words, a form of discrimination, at least in my mind.

(Coming from a gender-neutral gay guy, so take this as you like o3o)
 
Gender does not equal sex. Physically, I'm a guy, but I act like both a guy and a girl at times. Not following any extremes of either though.
 

KM

slayification
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Gender does not equal sex. Physically, I'm a guy, but I act like both a guy and a girl at times. Not following any extremes of either though.
the misunderstanding lies with you using the word "guy" as both a gender adjective and a sex adjective. The way you use "I act like a guy and a girl" refers to the societal gender roles enforced on "guys" and "girls", but "Physically, I am a guy" refers to what's in between your legs.

I don't think it even makes logical sense to call yourself "gender neutral". Colors are gender neutral, which implies that their properties can be applied to both boys and girls. This word can be applied to literally every human, as actions / statements / gestures are not binary male-female in any sense. As only very few actions are inherently "male" (like, actions involving the penis? even this is debatable) or "female", the vast majority of actions you take will be actions that both a guy and a girl could conceivably do.

Anyway, re: acronyms, yes, it's a form of "discrimination" in the most literal sense of the word. But, I can't agree with the concept that because an acronym necessarily distances us from others it is harmful or bad or alienating. To ignore the differences in life as a "queer" person and a "normal" person (SCARE QUOTES TO THE MAX) is equivalent to the statement that black people's lives are analogous to white people's lives in all aspects other than the very specific instances where their skin color objectively makes a difference.

Being a minority means that you are subjected to inordinate amounts of discrimination, ignorance, and hatred that just aren't experienced by a person whose circumstances are otherwise similar. Due to the unique situations and problems that arise as a result of being "queer", it is necessary to have unique and tailored support to fit the needs of specific people, and therefore a defined community of people is helpful. Would it be nice if society were such that we didn't need a specific acronym and group? Yes, but that's not realistic.

The purpose of the combined acronym is not to equate the hardships of all gender and sexual minorities, but rather to recognize that all gender and sexual minorities experience situations that are not analogous to those of a "normal" person's, and that they might need specific support tailored to those situations.
 

Sam

i say it's all just wind in sails
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maybe everything is gender neutral if you look at everything in a vacuum. however, gender is a social construct and society definitely does not exist in a vacuum. ironically enough, I think you're confusing sex and gender. you're right in that no specific action inherent (or basically natural) to one sex besides maybe something that's specific to either genitalia. gender, on the other hand, can definitely have actions that belong to either binary because society can (and does) define things that way. walking, talking, dressing, etc. can all be gendered and you'll definitely find differences between the two in male and female genders.

on the note of being "gender neutral" I don't know how much of that is just not identifying in either binary or just being a "mix" of both but both of those, I would argue, are better described as genderqueer. gender neutral tends to refer to the movement to show no bias to any gender.
 
I just want to say I find "male/female genitals" kind of transphobic on a conceptual level (ie not to be caught up in its current use as a descriptor) on the basis that trans people that don't experience genital dysphoria exist. I'm not interested in joining the current debate, but I'd like to know that others see the logic behind that feeling :/. Like, it's a phenomena I've witnessed and it kinda feels like a jab in the shoulder each time _____ genital mutilation is brought up.
 
Think I'll add to what Minwu is talking about as I am a transgender individual who doesn't experience genital dysphoria. I consider myself female, or I guess gender fluid if I want to be more accurate. Regardless of that, I have never wanted a vagina. I don't consider a vagina something that would help allay any misgivings that I have towards my situation. This is because I don't believe that the genitals are important in determining the sex of an individual. I have a penis and I don't think of my sex as male and I don't think that other people will be able to convince me otherwise that what you have in between your legs takes full priority over what you mind is telling you.

Oh, and an example of how this is actually something that is an issue for me. Where I live (Winnipeg, Manitoba), The only way for me to legally change my gender is to go through "sex reassignment surgery" (getting a vagina) which basically means that I will never be viewed as female legally because I don't want to be forced into a surgery that I don't want. I am essentially backed into a corner because of my provinces laws, and it is quite annoying -_-.
 
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v

protected by a silver spoon
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why does it matter what your legal gender is? like is there an appreciable difference if you arent getting girlified? for all intents and purposes that matter to society at large you are a man, regardless of how you identify. it just doesnt seem pragmatic to me to change your legal gender when there are no benefits as far as I can tell unless you're applying for female-only scholarships or something along those lines. sorry if I sound ignorant, but I 100% am ignorant about this and an honest answer that doesnt seek to demoralize me or hurt my feelings would sate my curiosity
 
why does it matter what your legal gender is? like is there an appreciable difference if you arent getting girlified? for all intents and purposes that matter to society at large you are a man, regardless of how you identify. it just doesnt seem pragmatic to me to change your legal gender when there are no benefits as far as I can tell unless you're applying for female-only scholarships or something along those lines. sorry if I sound ignorant, but I 100% am ignorant about this and an honest answer that doesnt seek to demoralize me or hurt my feelings would sate my curiosity
Don't worry v, I won't bite :).

I guess the best way of describing why it is an issue to me is simply because It is an incorrect identification being applied to me that I want to change. An example that I can think of that is at least a bit similar is if you were to want to be referred to as a certain name, but everyone keeps calling you the name that they are used to despite what you want. I agree that it really doesn't offer me many benefits in terms of business opportunities, but the benefits would be more that I would be recognized as the gender that I want to be recognized as, and also the personal satisfaction of accomplishing something that I want to do.
IDK if this will answer your question, but I am willing to elaborate more on anything that still confuses you.
 
Don't worry v, I won't bite :).

I guess the best way of describing why it is an issue to me is simply because It is an incorrect identification being applied to me that I want to change. An example that I can think of that is at least a bit similar is if you were to want to be referred to as a certain name, but everyone keeps calling you the name that they are used to despite what you want. I agree that it really doesn't offer me many benefits in terms of business opportunities, but the benefits would be more that I would be recognized as the gender that I want to be recognized as, and also the personal satisfaction of accomplishing something that I want to do.
IDK if this will answer your question, but I am willing to elaborate more on anything that still confuses you.
Your legal identity isn't equivalent to who you are. I have never gone by my legal name, my "name" is the name I call myself and everyone I know calls me. As long as you and the people in your life understand your situation it doesn't *really* matter what the government says. If you were to come across someone who wouldn't take your story without some paperwork to back it up, you'd never really get through to that person anyways. What v is saying is that unless there is a specific purpose for which you need to legally be a female, the only thing you would gain is the recognition of a government entity that doesn't give a damn about your personal identity and is probably only interest in accurate census data or whatever.
 
The hard utility of a legal change comes in that bigots will find their way in your life in the professional department or elsewhere. That kind of disrespect can be really grating from coworkers, doctors, and the like and it is nice to legally shout "Hey I'm actually this."

Many people find gender on goverment IDs unnecessary because of the question you asked v, and I kind of feel the same way.
 
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