Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[Karxrida]

Being #1 usage on the ladder doesn't automatically make you S-Rank. Rotom-W was #1 for the longest time earlier in the meta but wasn't S-Rank (or it was but bumped down later, can't remember exactly) for the same reason Lando-T shouldn't be; lack of recovery. No recovery outside of Lefties makes Lando-T easy to wear down, especially when it has more weaknesses to exploit than Rotom-W and is completely dependent on Intimidate to check certain threats. There's no doubt that it's a great mon like Ropeburn says above, but it's neither meta-defining nor incredibly threatening.

Oh, and Lati@s don't deserve to be S either. Too many ways to deal with them.

 

[MilkyWay]

Rotom-Wash for S rank. Rotom-W is truly deserving of S rank. It can check numerous threats and is easy to fit on almost every team. Despite having a low hp value, Rotom-W has high defenses which makes it almost impossible to OHKO. This also makes it unpredictable because you never know whether it's defensive or specially defensive. Rotom-W also has a great move pool and isnt passive. Volt Switch keeps momentum and Hydro Pump nails ground types trying to switch in on Volt Switch. Will-O-Wisp aids Rotom-W in walling physical threats which prevent it from being setup bait, this is especially useful if you chose a specially defensive Rotom-W as now it can take on both sides of the spectrum. Finally, Pain Split is a reliable recovery move that prevents it from being worn down. It is also one of the few pokemon that can switch in on any Mamoswine set and fear nothing, due to being the only OU pokemon that resists both of its STABs. Rotom-W is also a reliable answer to both Charizards at once. It can burn Charizard X, rendering it useless, and can choose between its's two super effective STABs on Charizard Y. Charizard only runs SolarBeam 37.318% of the time, which is the only way it can hurt Rotom-W. Unless they predict the switch to Rotom-W, they will always lose because Solarbeam is a two turn move and most Charizards run Blaze (93.755%), not Drought. On top of all of this, Rotom-W walls all Excadrill sets, which is important due to the rise of sand. It is also a great lure for Excadrill who think they can switch in for free on a Volt Switch only to get destroyed by a Hydro Pump. Even if you midpredict there is nothing they can do anyways. As if this wasnt enough Rotom-W can run an interesting scarf set because it has access to trick and volt switch. This makes Rotom-W just versatile enough to achieve S, otherwise I might day A+. In conclusion, Rotom-W is a very versatile pokemon both defensively and offensively. It can perform many roles which makes it easy to fit onto any team, usage stats reflect this. Because of this I think it is long overdue to move up to S, especially when taking into account the new S standards. Oh it walls all Bird Spam too, which I forgot to mention until now as well.


On a more serious note, I dont think anything else deserves S. In fact if anything, some S rank mons should move down (*cough* Keldeo, Landorus *cough*), although I suppose they might be too good for A+ so i dont really care where they go. As for the S nominations, neither Lati@s deserve S. Yes, they are easy to fit onto a team, but are worn down fast, especially with life orb recoil. Not to mention that theyre pursuit weak, easy to revenge kill, have no spammable moves, and are revenged by common threats. I find that Mega Pinsir is too dependent on that Swords Dance boost and sits at a sort of awkward speed tier. Anything faster than base 105 almost has to be killed with Quick Attack, and even a +2 Quick Attack isnt OHKOing much. Its defensive typing is terrible, even outside its stealth rock weakness. It needs to take a turn to get to its base 105 speed which hurts. Finally, often it has to hesitate to mega evolve due to its stealth rock weakness being multiplied. This makes it harder for it to wall break for itself. I really cant see Landorus-T as S rank. The only set even worthy is its scarf set. I guess intimidate + u-turn is nice, but its counted on to check many threats such as Excadrill and Charizard X, meaning it gets worn down fast. Earthquake sucks to be locked into and often prevents late game sweeps, as stone edge isnt powerful enough nor reliable enough. And for Rotom-Wash, lolno

 

[Sandoori]

It can burn Charizard X, rendering it useless, and can choose between its's two super effective STABs on Charizard Y. Charizard only runs SolarBeam 37.318% of the time, which is the only way it can hurt Rotom-W. Unless they predict the switch to Rotom-W, they will always lose because Solarbeam is a two turn move and most Charizards run Blaze (93.755%), not Drought.

u wot

Charizard is fire type and immune to burns.

Blaze is the pre-mega ability. All Yzards will have Drought.

| Charizardite Y 32.692% |
| SolarBeam 31.622% |

If you're fighting a Yzard, you're dying to a 1 turn Solarbeam. If you're fighting an Xzard, you can't burn it and it proceeds to set up on you, as well as becoming neutral to Hydro Pump and resisting Volt Switch with the typing change.

 

[Ropeburn]

u wot

Charizard is fire type and immune to burns.

Blaze is the pre-mega ability. All Yzards will have Drought.

| Charizardite Y 32.692% |
| SolarBeam 31.622% |

If you're fighting a Yzard, you're dying to a 1 turn Solarbeam. If you're fighting an Xzard, you can't burn it and it proceeds to set up on you, as well as becoming neutral to Hydro Pump and resisting Volt Switch with the typing change.

Try reading the post the whole way through next time.

 

[LZH14]

i started to write some reply to the rotom part but then was like "you literally cannot be serious wtf"
so yeah
agree with keeping lati@s in current place for all the reasons listed, pursuit trap, easy to rk, plenty to deal with them, not saying that they're bad or anything but they're not as defining as we're making them out to be
not sure about lando, phys def is also a pretty nice set but i agree it does tend to get worn down after a while
no opinion on pinsir

 

[Magcargo]

Landorus-T for S-Rank is crazy. yeah it checks a lot of mons in the tier like Zard X, Terrakion, Garchomp, and Excadrill, can set up SR and maintain momentum w/ U-turn, but its Offensive pivot set loses to a crapton of important mons like Thundurus, Keldeo, Rotom-W, Latios, and Latias, and is pretty easy to wear down thanks to its lack of reliable recovery. I haven't used or seen scarf Landorus-T, but it seems heavily reliant on prediction since its main STAB move is resisted by a lot of mons in the tier (although it does fair better vs the aforementioned pokemon and is better at checking certain mons like Excadrill, Pinsir, etc.). A+ seems fine for it.

Might comment on Lati@s later

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

Honestly the standards for s-rank seem to have gone way down.
No way should rotom-w, Landorous-T, Lati@s, Mega Pinsir should be S.
They are all reallly good pokemon , but they are not the best, which is what S should be imo. Only fringe broken things that the meta revolves around should be there. It was once home to Mega kang, Aegis, Mega Lucario, genesect, aka the best of the best. These pokemon are nice pivots or sweeper in Pinsir's case, but the tier does not revolve around them.

Honestly, Keldeo and Landorous are also easy enough to deal with and prob should be dropped also.

In my opinion the only really S deserving mons are ZardX, Azumarill, and Thunderus (actually think it should be uber, but that is whole different battle) S-rank doesn't have to be large.

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

I disagree with promoting Lando-T to S rank. Lando is an amazing pokemon. It is a nice check to physical attackers, has good speed and a very healthy movepool to abuse. However, it has no way of recovery, making it extremely easy to wear down. Landorus is an amazing glue to teams, but it's not even close on the spectrum of ease when it comes to being slapped on teams as Azumarill is. If we move Lando-T up, then there are numerous other pokemon that might as well be bumped up as well. A+ is more than good enough in my opinion.

Edit: Also am completely behind the idea of bumping Magneton onto the ranking somewhere.. The niche of being able to outspeed Greninja with Scarf is enough of a niche to justify a ranking. (Way more than fucking Umbreon)

Lando I has no reliable recovery and it's S rank.
Explain.

 

[koista12]

Lando I has no unreliable recovery and it's S rank.
Explain.

Lando I isn't a pivot that's expected to switch in to attacks. A pivot should ideally have recovery so that it doesn't get worn down.

 

[Master B8s]

Lando I has no unreliable recovery and it's S rank.
Explain.

Landorus I doesn't need reliable recovery desperately cause it plays as a special wall breaker with great coverage and LO+SF to boost its power

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

If Lati@s and Landorus-T go S, then the rest of A+ can join them. Just saying.

 

[Jukain]

LOL rotom-w for s rank

rotom-w is fine, rotom-w is good. it's an awesome pivot, beats some cool things like azu landt talon drill tran, spreads burns nicely, and gets crazy amounts of momentum for the team with volt switch. that's where the good points end. rotom-w struggles vs many top threats, and really most teams have multiple switch-ins for it at this point. latios, latias, mg clefable, mega venusaur, mega charizard x, amoonguss, you get the point. many ou teams have both a ground-type to play around with volt switch and 1 or more solid switch-ins to it. furthermore, there is an enormous power creep in this metagame that does no favors for a pokemon that really isn't that bulky. mega medicham ohkoes it. mega gardevoir about the same. cc pinsir annihilates it. it doesn't really 'wall' that much or even pivot in reliably. that list of 5 mons? those are awesome mons, but that's really besides a handful of defensive mons almost the entire list of pokemon that rotom-w can even pivot into with consistency in this metagame. even the mons that rotom-w can beat can wear it down with not that much difficulty, what with u-turn, rocks, sand, toxic, whatever, pain split is unreliable and often rotom-w gets worn down real fast. there is no way it's more than an a rank pokemon.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

LOL rotom-w for s rank

rotom-w is fine, rotom-w is good. it's an awesome pivot, beats some cool things like azu landt talon drill tran, spreads burns nicely, and gets crazy amounts of momentum for the team with volt switch. that's where the good points end. rotom-w struggles vs many top threats, and really most teams have multiple switch-ins for it at this point. latios, latias, mg clefable, mega venusaur, mega charizard x, amoonguss, you get the point. many ou teams have both a ground-type to play around with volt switch and 1 or more solid switch-ins to it. furthermore, there is an enormous power creep in this metagame that does no favors for a pokemon that really isn't that bulky. mega medicham ohkoes it. mega gardevoir about the same. cc pinsir annihilates it. it doesn't really 'wall' that much or even pivot in reliably. that list of 5 mons? those are awesome mons, but that's really besides a handful of defensive mons almost the entire list of pokemon that rotom-w can even pivot into with consistency in this metagame. even the mons that rotom-w can beat can wear it down with not that much difficulty, what with u-turn, rocks, sand, toxic, whatever, pain split is unreliable and often rotom-w gets worn down real fast. there is no way it's more than an a rank pokemon.

that post was mocking landorus-t to s i'm pretty sure

 

[Celticpride]

LOL rotom-w for s rank

rotom-w is fine, rotom-w is good. it's an awesome pivot, beats some cool things like azu landt talon drill tran, spreads burns nicely, and gets crazy amounts of momentum for the team with volt switch. that's where the good points end. rotom-w struggles vs many top threats, and really most teams have multiple switch-ins for it at this point. latios, latias, mg clefable, mega venusaur, mega charizard x, amoonguss, you get the point. many ou teams have both a ground-type to play around with volt switch and 1 or more solid switch-ins to it. furthermore, there is an enormous power creep in this metagame that does no favors for a pokemon that really isn't that bulky. mega medicham ohkoes it. mega gardevoir about the same. cc pinsir annihilates it. it doesn't really 'wall' that much or even pivot in reliably. that list of 5 mons? those are awesome mons, but that's really besides a handful of defensive mons almost the entire list of pokemon that rotom-w can even pivot into with consistency in this metagame. even the mons that rotom-w can beat can wear it down with not that much difficulty, what with u-turn, rocks, sand, toxic, whatever, pain split is unreliable and often rotom-w gets worn down real fast. there is no way it's more than an a rank pokemon.

... He wasn't being serious about Washtom moving up.

 

[Zibbity]

Rotom-Wash for S rank. Rotom-W is truly deserving of S rank. It can check numerous threats and is easy to fit on almost every team. Despite having a low hp value, Rotom-W has high defenses which makes it almost impossible to OHKO. This also makes it unpredictable because you never know whether it's defensive or specially defensive. Rotom-W also has a great move pool and isnt passive. Volt Switch keeps momentum and Hydro Pump nails ground types trying to switch in on Volt Switch. Will-O-Wisp aids Rotom-W in walling physical threats which prevent it from being setup bait, this is especially useful if you chose a specially defensive Rotom-W as now it can take on both sides of the spectrum. Finally, Pain Split is a reliable recovery move that prevents it from being worn down. It is also one of the few pokemon that can switch in on any Mamoswine set and fear nothing, due to being the only OU pokemon that resists both of its STABs. Rotom-W is also a reliable answer to both Charizards at once. It can burn Charizard X, rendering it useless, and can choose between its's two super effective STABs on Charizard Y. Charizard only runs SolarBeam 37.318% of the time, which is the only way it can hurt Rotom-W. Unless they predict the switch to Rotom-W, they will always lose because Solarbeam is a two turn move and most Charizards run Blaze (93.755%), not Drought. On top of all of this, Rotom-W walls all Excadrill sets, which is important due to the rise of sand. It is also a great lure for Excadrill who think they can switch in for free on a Volt Switch only to get destroyed by a Hydro Pump. Even if you midpredict there is nothing they can do anyways. As if this wasnt enough Rotom-W can run an interesting scarf set because it has access to trick and volt switch. This makes Rotom-W just versatile enough to achieve S, otherwise I might day A+. In conclusion, Rotom-W is a very versatile pokemon both defensively and offensively. It can perform many roles which makes it easy to fit onto any team, usage stats reflect this. Because of this I think it is long overdue to move up to S, especially when taking into account the new S standards. Oh it walls all Bird Spam too, which I forgot to mention until now as well.

I was really going to tear my hair off when I read this. With all the scrubs I've faced on the ladder spamming Rotom Wash switchins, I can imagine they actually believe all of this. A rank is fine, it's got variety in stat spreads, but it's so damn predictable I don't even...

I don't see much of a difference between A+ and S anymore. None of the S rank Pokemon are getting suspected. May as well make Lando-Tigger S rank because he's so damn common and spammable. Also since Lando-I and Keldeo aren't really S rank, demote.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

I was really going to tear my hair off when I read this. With all the scrubs I've faced on the ladder spamming Rotom Wash switchins, I can imagine they actually believe all of this. A rank is fine, but it's so damn predictble I don't even...

I don't see much of a difference between A+ and S anymore. None of the S rank Pokemon are getting suspected. May as well make Lando-Tigger S rank because he's so damn common and spammable. Also since Lando-I and Keldeo aren't really S rank, demote.

Lando-I and Keldeo are S rank, just not on the same level as Azumarill and Thundy.

 

[quagback2qc]

It is seriously time do do something about S rank now. Anyone can make a case for any mon in A+ right now based on what is currently in S. Everybody is specifically talking about Keldeo and Lando-I due to how the meta has evolved to deal with them. Bird spam easily checks Keldeo while Keldeo and mons that have taken on HP ice easily take down Lando-I. It is fairly obvious that these mons need to move down to A+. However, I wish to make a case for Mega Venusaur to move down from A+. Sure, thick fat along with MASSIVE Spdef make it a great wall, but like keldeo, it is too easy to beat with bird spam. Even the special attackers it used to wall have adapted with Psychic being used on Thundy sets and HP psychic/flying on keldeo. It is also too weak to sand teams and defensive sets lacking HP fire are worthless against Chesnaught and Ferro. It takes too much damage from rocks to be a reliable switch in to keldeo, which, if used right late game, can take it out with a few quick HP Psy/Flyings. Basically, with the meta having adapted to Mega Venu, it needs to move down. Mega Venusaur for A.

 

[Tressed]

GUYS, I THINK THE ROTOM-W POST WAS SARCASTIC. PLEASE DON'T POST MORE COUNTER ARGUMENTS K THX

Tbh I'm pretty happy with S-Rank right now. Lando could probably drop just because everyone who plays stall has some sort of an answer to it and it's not exactly great against offense, but it's still a very dominant wallbreaker and definitely can't be overlooked when teambuilding. Keldeo either a god in A+ or meh in S so I'm okay with wherever it ends up, although I think we're pretty much splitting hairs over it atm. Everything else is absolutely justified in S, and nothing in A+ warrants a jump, even though they're all fantastic choices.

 

[Karxrida]

It's hilarious how you guys are taking MilkyWay01's post about Rotom-W seriously; if you read it you'd know he's being sarcastic (the fact he said it could burn Zard X should have tipped you off).

I was really going to tear my hair off when I read this. With all the scrubs I've faced on the ladder spamming Rotom Wash switchins, I can imagine they actually believe all of this. A rank is fine, it's got variety in stat spreads, but it's so damn predictable I don't even...

I don't see much of a difference between A+ and S anymore. None of the S rank Pokemon are getting suspected. May as well make Lando-Tigger S rank because he's so damn common and spammable. Also since Lando-I and Keldeo aren't really S rank, demote.

I don't support Lando-T or Rotom-W moving up (for obvious reasons lol), but I just wanted to say that predictability is not inherently bad. Mega Pinsir was S-Rank for a time with literally one job with one set, and only dropped once people started packing checks/counters to it. Predictability is only bad if it's easily exploitable like with Smeargle, who is made completely useless by fast Sub users, Taunt, and Grass-types.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

LOL rotom-w for s rank

rotom-w is fine, rotom-w is good. it's an awesome pivot, beats some cool things like azu landt talon drill tran, spreads burns nicely, and gets crazy amounts of momentum for the team with volt switch. that's where the good points end. rotom-w struggles vs many top threats, and really most teams have multiple switch-ins for it at this point. latios, latias, mg clefable, mega venusaur, mega charizard x, amoonguss, you get the point. many ou teams have both a ground-type to play around with volt switch and 1 or more solid switch-ins to it. furthermore, there is an enormous power creep in this metagame that does no favors for a pokemon that really isn't that bulky. mega medicham ohkoes it. mega gardevoir about the same. cc pinsir annihilates it. it doesn't really 'wall' that much or even pivot in reliably. that list of 5 mons? those are awesome mons, but that's really besides a handful of defensive mons almost the entire list of pokemon that rotom-w can even pivot into with consistency in this metagame. even the mons that rotom-w can beat can wear it down with not that much difficulty, what with u-turn, rocks, sand, toxic, whatever, pain split is unreliable and often rotom-w gets worn down real fast. there is no way it's more than an a rank pokemon.

Jukain he was being sarcastic man. He was proving a point of how nothing else deserves S than what is there now, in his mind at least. He even went through the courtesy of saying Rotom doesn't even come close to deserving it multiple times.

Tbh I agree with him. Nothing that I have to say on that individual matter hasn't been said. Just throwing in some support for leaving S rank alone for now.

 

[Numera]

And ofc only now I realize how flawed of an argument that was from me. Probably I was half asleep and now my mind is fresh, but idk.

So... do we all agree with the Magneton nomination? I don't want that to get buried because to me it seems like something that needs a rank (just read what I wrote about if if you're unsure)

Also nitpick: clicking on Manaphy also sends you to the forums entry, instead of http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/manaphy

 

[alexwolf]

Magneton was added in C rank, i meant to include it in the last update but forgot about it. Also, send me PMs / VMs about wrong links you see in the OP, let's not clutter this thread.

 

[Ropeburn]

Lando I has no reliable recovery and it's S rank.
Explain.

Why would it need recovery when it murders anything slower than it. What do you mean explain? Landorus-I is completely different from Landorus-T.

 

[Mr. Goodra]

I think S should be left alone for now really. The standards for it have definitely dropped with recent bans but I think there's still a bit of ambiguity about how good S is supposed to be, and that should be cleared up before further amendments. Azumarill definitely belongs up there, Thundy definitely does too (and personally I feel it's the only one uber worthy). The rest all have arguments either side (though I've swayed to A+ for Lando).

Crawdaunt I agree has some switch ins but they are so damn few that I feel it deserves a minor rise. I'll expand further when I know for sure what it deserves.

Also I definitely think Mega Venu should drop after recent ladder experiences. Sand is crippling it big time, due to synthesis becoming more noticeably flawed as a method of recovery. Without it, Venu is easily worn down and doesn't pull weight as much as the other megas right now. I think Mega Venusaur belongs in A.

Lati twins are great but not worthy of S. Pursuit is the bane of their existence and Draco isn't as spammable as it was. They do their job consistently but you can't just slap them on a team and call it a day without answers to threats they can't even touch without sacrificing a valuable moveslot, for example HP fighting for Ttar. Draco also leaves them in a vulnerable position thanks to the drop. Keep the twins A+.

 

[Numera]

Also I definitely think Mega Venu should drop after recent ladder experiences. Sand is crippling it big time, due to synthesis becoming more noticeably flawed as a method of recovery. Without it, Venu is easily worn down and doesn't pull weight as much as the other megas right now. I think Mega Venusaur belongs in A.

It has already been explained how MVenu might lose it's recovery due to sand, but it does win 1v1 against the majority of sand Pokemon, so it really isn't limiting it's viability at all. I guess flyspam is everywhere, but it's not like that stops MHera and Keldeo lol.

Anyway, now that I'm actually awake and won't make absurd nominations, I just want to see on people's opinion on Lando-I moving down. No one objected, no one agreed.

I'm now going to talk about why Landorus isn't an S Rank threat any more. I remember the days when Landorus was a stall breaking titan that could 6 - 0 the tier with ease, and was deemed broken. This is no longer the case. Landorus no longer 6 - 0es stall because stall has evolved to deal with it. We have things such as CBBnite, Torn-T, Gliscor and Cresselia which are solid stall Pokemon and solid Lando counters (as long as Lando lacks HP Ice for the former 2). In other words, switching in on Landorus is no longer this huge impossibility it used to be. The 2nd thing is the increase of Lando checks. Scarf HP Ice Magnezone, Keldeo, Azumarill, HP Ice Thundurus ext are all more viable then ever in the current metagame, and Lando's previous checks are still viable as ever, such as Greninja and Mamoswine. It doesn't face off well against a lot of the Pokemon around it and is now very easy to prepare for. Landorus for A+.