The Everything NFL Punter Thread - 2014/2015 Season

Status
Not open for further replies.

Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
The Ravens backed up an accused murder. Were you really expecting them not to back up an assaulter? They just released him because of the circus.
Apples and oranges. Even not taking into account the fact that what you're talking about happened fifteen years ago under different leadership, it's not even remotely the same.

Ray Lewis was a witness in a murder case following a bar fight. He was initially charged with murder along with Oakley and Sweeting. He turned and became the state's key witness instead. Both the jury and the state accepted the testimony, but the jury determined that Oakley and Sweeting acted in self-defense, and so all charges against them were dropped. Ironically, the only one to face any charges at all was Ray Lewis, who was faced with charges of obstruction of justice for initially lying about Oakley and Sweeting's involvement.

So, yes, for a brief period Ray Lewis was an accused murderer. However, that charge was dropped by the state as they gained evidence about the case, and the only charge levied against him was a misdemeanor charge for lying to protect his career. In the end, the murder in question was determined by a jury to have not occurred, since they determined it was self-defense.

Finally, call me an idealist, but I do happen to think that there's a big difference between a bar fight and beating your fiance unconscious in an elevator.

EDIT: This is not to say I approve of how the Ravens handled Rice, though. They should have canned him from the get-go.
 
Last edited:
This is a sports thread which is why I haven't posted anything on the Rice bs but imo he shouldn't even gotten the 2 game suspension. That was over the line but I let it go because I thought it would appease moral police. Now he got released and you're all happy about it? Jesus Christ a man lost his livelihood and you're happy about it. And least of all for a punch. I'm sorry but it was just a punch to the face against a smaller person. Big ass whoop. As far as we know he isn't constantly tormenting her so we have to assume it was a one time thing and a mistake in that moment caused by an argument. Was it right that he punched her? No. Should he humiliated and punished this severely for it? Hell no. Like I said, the two game suspension was too damn much as it was. But that's just me believing that Ray Rice isn't a serial face puncher. Because no, her being a woman doesn't make this any worse. Her weight/size compared to his does. And at the end of the day it was a punch. He should have been given a big ass fine at most.
 

WaterBomb

Two kids no brane
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
This is a sports thread which is why I haven't posted anything on the Rice bs but imo he shouldn't even gotten the 2 game suspension. That was over the line but I let it go because I thought it would appease moral police. Now he got released and you're all happy about it? Jesus Christ a man lost his livelihood and you're happy about it. And least of all for a punch. I'm sorry but it was just a punch to the face against a smaller person. Big ass whoop. As far as we know he isn't constantly tormenting her so we have to assume it was a one time thing and a mistake in that moment caused by an argument. Was it right that he punched her? No. Should he humiliated and punished this severely for it? Hell no. Like I said, the two game suspension was too damn much as it was. But that's just me believing that Ray Rice isn't a serial face puncher. Because no, her being a woman doesn't make this any worse. Her weight/size compared to his does. And at the end of the day it was a punch. He should have been given a big ass fine at most.
Like it or not, we as a society place a strong emphasis on restraint in males when dealing with females. Males are expected not to strike females except in extreme circumstances (female is trying to literally kill you etc). Men who hit women, even when provoked, are seen as cowards by the public. Even in cases where a man is being attacked or provoked by a woman, he is expected to subdue her in more controlled ways without violence.

As has been said several times in the last few pages, the NFL is a business above all else. In order for a business to thrive, you need consumers. Anyone who has ever worked in the real world knows that perception is reality, and all businesses, especially those in the entertainment world, have to maintain their image. Ray Rice was treated as he was because his "perception" to the public was extremely negative and it was bad for the NFL's "image". It may seem unfair and heavy handed, but that's how this business works. Don't like it? Do something about it. Stop watching football. Protest. Write letters. Do something.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
I just want to say: Ray Lewis was accused of murder for all of a month and organizations are always supposed to support their players, its a part of the relationship. Supporting your player isint something to be looked down upon, and considering the ravens hadnt seen the video and rice did issue an apology, Its safe to say the ravens arent trash for supporting what makes them whole.

For those saying rice issued a shitty apology, if he tried to do something about it, such as creating an organization regarding domestic abuse, he would be met with terrible arms by many people. Lets stop something under my leadership even though i just did it and could still be doing it in the background. I know I would never support an organization like that. His apology was the most he could have done, otherwise it would have seemed like he would have never done it and was out of control. He adressed the media in the most sensible way, not letting himself say too much as to say something stupid or a little too vague lest ot make the media explode calling him a sexist or w/e. I feel like his apology was as genuine and full as he could have made it, more would have likely caused all kinds of problems in the media.


Allen hurns is a guy to watch. Dont panic and pick him up in fantasy, but watch him damn closely. This dude was electrifying at Miami, and blew away all the coaches in training camp and the players in the preseason. His wide reciever coach has set him up perfectly, and his route-running abilities are being compared to keenan mccardell, one of the best at that skill. Hurns is extremely polished for a rookie, and good scheming (see the second TD and how well other plays set it up) means he could become a major playmaker.
 

Mr.E

unban me from Discord
is a Two-Time Past SPL Champion
I don't agree with the circumstances in which Rice has lost his job, in that I simply don't think it's the job of Mr. Rice's employer to punish him for a personal matter that in no way affects his ability to perform his job and has already been investigated and handled by the criminal justice system. I also think the NFL handled the situation terribly, as he went from a two-game suspension to an indefinite one? (The Ravens also cut him but [1] that's their prerogative [2] probably only because the NFL upped his suspension to indefinite length.) That said, I don't have a lot of sympathy for him either. His livelihood? Dude is (and/or was) a fucking NFL superstar, he's loaded and set for multiple lifetimes. Boo-fucking-hoo. It was a foreseeable consequence of his actions.

It also just needs to stop. As far as the general public should be concerned, this was a one-time incident. Armchair psychologists can argue all they want about patterns of abuse but none of us can know without far more insight into their personal lives. Hell, we don't even know the circumstances of the incident that occured. Did Ray just get too drunk and coldcock a bitch? Did Janay shout obscenities and throw shit at him that we didn't catch on tape? That's not to say what Ray did wasn't wrong either way but there are degrees by which his actions would be more or less understandable. But Ray apologized, Janay just wants people to leave them the fuck alone, and the matter has already been settled legally. Nothing more to see here, folks.

I picked up Hurns in fantasy because hey, can't be worse than Britt's zero anyway. *thumbs up* Good benchwarmer as we see how his development shakes out.
 
I just want to say: Ray Lewis was accused of murder for all of a month and organizations are always supposed to support their players, its a part of the relationship.
The patriots cut Aaron Hernandez before they even knew the charges against him.

Not everyone deserves Unconditional love and support.

The Ravens saw the first video of Rice Dragging his wife out of the elevator, they should have cut bait with him after that. Its not that hard to put 2 and 2 together to find out what he did to her.

The fact is that the Ravens released Rice because the 2nd video got out, not because of some moral obligation or code.

Ray Rice would be back with the Ravens on Friday if not for TMZ.
 
Like it or not, we as a society place a strong emphasis on restraint in males when dealing with females. Males are expected not to strike females except in extreme circumstances (female is trying to literally kill you etc). Men who hit women, even when provoked, are seen as cowards by the public. Even in cases where a man is being attacked or provoked by a woman, he is expected to subdue her in more controlled ways without violence.

As has been said several times in the last few pages, the NFL is a business above all else. In order for a business to thrive, you need consumers. Anyone who has ever worked in the real world knows that perception is reality, and all businesses, especially those in the entertainment world, have to maintain their image. Ray Rice was treated as he was because his "perception" to the public was extremely negative and it was bad for the NFL's "image". It may seem unfair and heavy handed, but that's how this business works. Don't like it? Do something about it. Stop watching football. Protest. Write letters. Do something.
this business works comment bothers me. it seems like the nfl has done a good job of blinding people like you (not trying to call you out) with this big punishment of rice after the fact, making it seem like well we need to protect our image, when the real story shouldn't be ray rice but that it is almost a certainty that the nfl and ravens front office tried to cover up this incident and brush it under the rug. there were multiple reports that the nfl saw what happened inside the elevator and it's almost silly to think that they were somehow unable to get this videotape or that they would hand out punishment without seeing it first. this honestly looks like the nfl throwing rice under the bus with an indefinite (and possibly lifelong) suspension (while dog killer vick, pregnant wife abuser mcdonald, noted thug hardy) are still in the league so people don't ask too many questions. i think it is just too laughable to imagine they didn't have access / see what happened in the video. but other than a few people like schefter causing a stink about this exact thing on monday, it's mostly turned into a moral circlejerk about ray rice which is exactly what the nfl was striving for.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
The patriots cut Aaron Hernandez before they even knew the charges against him.

Not everyone deserves Unconditional love and support.

The Ravens saw the first video of Rice Dragging his wife out of the elevator, they should have cut bait with him after that. Its not that hard to put 2 and 2 together to find out what he did to her.

The fact is that the Ravens released Rice because the 2nd video got out, not because of some moral obligation or code.

Ray Rice would be back with the Ravens on Friday if not for TMZ.
comparing ray rice to Aaron hernandez is really shallow logic.

1. Ray rice was a highly respected figure, known for going out of his way to help the community and things of the sort, whereas hernandez was a young player who had conduct issues.

2. There is a difference between a murder and domestic violence. having anybody possibly involved in a murder is one thing, and the pats cut him when it was somewhat clear he did it. Ray Lewis was not immediately cut since the case was so foggy by the time it was remotely clear it was not blind accusations he had been proven not guilty. not the case with hernandez mind you. The fine line with a domestic violence case in which you would just release a player to begin with is much higher in terms of evidence needed than it is for a murder. Are you trying to say that if ray rice was accused of murder the ravens would still keep him until there was evidence otherwise?

3. Hernandez is irrelevant anyways, is every team who ever had a player arrested trash for not cutting them? The pats have a very different way of doing buisness you know.

I am in no way justifying ray rice, I am saying that the ravens arent trash for not cutting him immediately.
 

WaterBomb

Two kids no brane
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
this business works comment bothers me. it seems like the nfl has done a good job of blinding people like you (not trying to call you out) with this big punishment of rice after the fact, making it seem like well we need to protect our image, when the real story shouldn't be ray rice but that it is almost a certainty that the nfl and ravens front office tried to cover up this incident and brush it under the rug. there were multiple reports that the nfl saw what happened inside the elevator and it's almost silly to think that they were somehow unable to get this videotape or that they would hand out punishment without seeing it first. this honestly looks like the nfl throwing rice under the bus with an indefinite (and possibly lifelong) suspension (while dog killer vick, pregnant wife abuser mcdonald, noted thug hardy) are still in the league so people don't ask too many questions. i think it is just too laughable to imagine they didn't have access / see what happened in the video. but other than a few people like schefter causing a stink about this exact thing on monday, it's mostly turned into a moral circlejerk about ray rice which is exactly what the nfl was striving for.
You're correct, my comment was more along the lines of "this is how business in general works, and the NFL is a business". The NFL messed up BIG time with how they handled this, and their image had already taken a hit by the time it reached this point. For whatever reason, they covered up having seen the video (probably because the initial punishment was seen as too lenient and they wanted to use the excuse of "oh we haven't seen the video" to justify it). This latest action is them using Rice as a scapegoat to save face and distract people from their mistakes before. I was more addressing some hero's comment about being upset they punished Rice AT ALL and his assertion that it was "just a punch".
 

DetroitLolcat

Maize and Blue Badge Set 2014-2017
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
I'll be shocked if Goodell stays. He has no business remaining commissioner of the NFL.

He's not even a good liar. There's no way he didn't have access to the video. The NFL could hire any investigator they want to get this video, and everyone knew this video existed before it became public. There's no way TMZ had better investigative resources than the NFL.

Even if he didn't have the video (he did), that's no excuse. Goodell suspended Sean Payton a year even though he couldn't prove that Payton knew about the bounty program because "if you didn't know anything, you should have". Same logic should cost Goodell his job.
 
Last edited:

Imanalt

I'm the coolest girl you'll ever meet
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I'll be shocked if Goodell stays. He has no business remaining commissioner of the NFL.

He's not even a good liar. There's no way he didn't have access to the video. The NFL could hire any investigator they want to get this video, and everyone knew this video existed before it became public. There's no way TMZ had better investigative resources than the NFL.

Even if he didn't have the video (he did), that's no excuse. Goodell suspended Sean Payton a year even though he couldn't prove that Payton knew about the bounty program because "if you didn't know anything, you should have". Same logic should cost Goodell his job.
Sepp Blatter has had no business staying as head of fifa for however long he's been there, so not sure being bad at your job actually gets you fired. My understanding of how the league is set up makes it very hard for Goodell to lose his job other than quitting. If the negativity towards him is bad enough, maybe he'll quit, but i certainly dont understand what motivates him, so i can't really speak to that. Goodell is a bad commissioner and shouldn't be commish, there's no question of that, but every major sport is poorly run, and its only a matter of degrees between them.
 

DM

Ce soir, on va danser.
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
This is a sports thread which is why I haven't posted anything on the Rice bs but imo he shouldn't even gotten the 2 game suspension. That was over the line but I let it go because I thought it would appease moral police. Now he got released and you're all happy about it? Jesus Christ a man lost his livelihood and you're happy about it. And least of all for a punch. I'm sorry but it was just a punch to the face against a smaller person. Big ass whoop. As far as we know he isn't constantly tormenting her so we have to assume it was a one time thing and a mistake in that moment caused by an argument. Was it right that he punched her? No. Should he humiliated and punished this severely for it? Hell no. Like I said, the two game suspension was too damn much as it was. But that's just me believing that Ray Rice isn't a serial face puncher. Because no, her being a woman doesn't make this any worse. Her weight/size compared to his does. And at the end of the day it was a punch. He should have been given a big ass fine at most.
this is a retarded post and you should not have made it

and that's coming from someone who think using "retarded" as an adjective is objectively offensive

Goodell's credibility is fucked forever
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
1. Goodell is the commisioner and will not just willingly step down. Who is going to make him step down? Who is going to fine him? Lying to the public isint a crime, dont tell me law enforcement will fine him.

2. What if the person who saw the video in the front office was too disturbed to pass it on? What if they wanted ray rice to keep his job or get a second chance where the media would have torn his entire life to shreds? You cant blame somebody for feeling bad over what happened to rice in the wake of this incident, and saying you wont accept that means you need to get out of america. Its very possible that some viewed the video in the nfl and decided to keep it confidential, because the league would do a lot better without there being a video of one of its most respected players punching his fiancee. So let me say this; the possibility of a missing link in the passing of the video to goodell is very real.
 

Imanalt

I'm the coolest girl you'll ever meet
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
So antonio brown got fined... $8200...? Really? A jump kick in the face, regardless of whether he was trying to jump over the guy, is incredibly dangerous, and clearly against the rules. Why is something like this going basically unpunished? I would have liked to see something like a 2 game suspension, basically saying "If you aren't 100 percent sure you can successfully hurdle someone, DON'T TRY"
 

DetroitLolcat

Maize and Blue Badge Set 2014-2017
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
So antonio brown got fined... $8200...? Really? A jump kick in the face, regardless of whether he was trying to jump over the guy, is incredibly dangerous, and clearly against the rules. Why is something like this going basically unpunished? I would have liked to see something like a 2 game suspension, basically saying "If you aren't 100 percent sure you can successfully hurdle someone, DON'T TRY"
I honestly thought this was a joke post because there is no way ANTONIO BROWN USED HI JUMP KICK IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE PUNTER FAINTED merits an $8200 fine. Suspension should have been obvious.

For fuck's sake you get fined twice that for dunking the ball over a goalpost.
 

WaterBomb

Two kids no brane
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Why the hell do we even have Todd Haley if the offense only ever does anything when they switch to No Huddle? Honestly...
 

DM

Ce soir, on va danser.
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
Antonio Brown didn't get more punishment because nobody considers punters to be actual human beings deserving of respect

also I don't give a shit about the "independent" investigation because Mara and Rooney, two owners that are up Goodell's ass, are overseeing it
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 2)

Top